Followup: Library Board Unanimously Supports TOR Relay

Wrath0fb0b writes: Last week, the administrators of the Kilton Public Library in New Hampshire suspended a project to host a Tor relay after the DHS sent them an email asking them to reconsider. At a board meeting yesterday, the exit node was reinstated by unanimous vote. Board member Francis Oscadal said, "With any freedom there is risk. It came to me that I could vote in favor of the good ... or I could vote against the bad. I’d rather vote for the good because there is value to this." Deputy Police Chief Philip Roberts said, "We simply came in as law enforcement and said, 'These are the concerns.' We wanted to inform everyone so it was an educated decision by everyone involved." Deputy City Manager Paula Maville added, "This is about making an informed decision. Whatever you need to do, we’re here to support that."

Comments

Ban People

[Anonymous Coward]

People can be good or bad, I suggest we ban people.

All hail our robot overlords.

Re:Ban People

[sims 2]

We could always ban computers since crime is worse if its done with a computer than in person.

That would help right?
https://torrentfreak.com/is-ru...
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/...

Them computers be evil!

all good?

[thoromyr]

So they really weren't that concerned about having an open tor relay? When they invoked OMG terrorists! children! it was just so the board would make an informed decision? Sorry, but for them to claim no stake in the outcome belies their attempt to shut it down.

Not that their response is bad, it just isn't all that believable. Now, if they had said, "I'm disappointed, but at least they made an informed decision" it would come across like they actually believed in what they told the board. This makes it seem like they are acknowledging the fud didn't work.

It reminds me of a story a prof told me about a student who went in to argue about a grade, unsuccessfully. When the student left a friend in the hall asked, "did he buy it?" and the response was "nah." Just like here, didn't really have anything invested in it, and wasn't perturbed when the story didn't get traction.

Re:all good?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of what you mention was in the commentary of the previous article, not the article itself.

"The use of a Tor browser is not, in [or] of itself, illegal and there are legitimate purposes for its use," Neudauer said, "However, the protections that Tor offers can be attractive to criminal enterprises or actors and HSI [Homeland Security Investigations] will continue to pursue those individuals who seek to use the anonymizing technology to further their illicit activity."

All the hysteria was in the comments, and sinister motives applied to the police out of personal hatreds rather than the evidence of the story.

Re:all good?

[gstoddart]

You know the scary thing ... in just how many cities would the board have bought into the FUD, decreed that they can't do something which supports terrorists, and then get duped into saying it should be left off?

They really did want the outcome of making them all too scared to leave it.

I'm betting the fucking DHS has come powerpoint slide decks to teach law enforcement how to make these sound scary in order to suppress them ... because the DHS et al have decided it will just be easier if they can make those pesky freedoms go away. Just like they have slide decks explaining how to commit perjury with parallel construction.

Make no mistake, this is part of a deliberate campaign to use FUD to do what they can't do legally. Defend and uphold the Constitution my ass ... these people are fully into suppress, distort, and lie mode.

You can't protect someone's rights be eliminating them, no matter how delusional you are about why you're doing it.

Re:all good?

[gstoddart]

You give them a lot of benefit of the doubt .. much more than I do.

They knew they had no legal basis to pursue this. They had no legal basis to demand it or fight for it. Because it's not illegal.

This is the soft approach by which they insinuate all of the bad things which could happen, and hope the current climate leads to the library board saying "holy crap, look at this".

This is fairly scary, as it means that the spy agencies and law enforcement are working to subvert legal rights in a fairly shadowy way. And my conclusion is to trust them less and less with every passing week.

Because the shit they're willing to do in order to make an end run around Constitutionally protected rights is reaching the point where you have to start asking if these guys aren't the real enemies of the state ... not 5 years ago it would be easy to dismiss that as crazy talk.

These days? Suddenly it's not so crazy.

Re:all good?

[flink]

You know the scary thing ... in just how many cities would the board have bought into the FUD, decreed that they can't do something which supports terrorists, and then get duped into saying it should be left off?

You might be surprised in the other direction. Librarians have a pretty strong tradition of standing up to this kind of crap. The ALA has been speaking out against the section 215 of the PATRIOT act (the one used to justify mass metadata collection) since day 1 because it could be used to snoop on people's library records.

Re:all good?

[thoromyr]

Its pretty clear that our intel community* ignores the constitution where ever possible and considers all americans to be (at best) one step away from terrorism (especially anyone discussing matters like this). So I'm not really giving them the benefit of any doubt -- just slightly surprised that they act like they had no irons in the fire after going OMG evil! The normal response to any resistance is to double down, but here they seem to have just shrugged their shoulders. "Did he buy it?" asks one, "nah" says the other.

* not to be confused with the individuals that comprise it. It is a mistake to even think that the "average" member reflects the community. That simply isn't how group dynamics work. So just because the community sees the constitution as an annoyance that does not mean a significant number of the individuals do. I say this because it is all too easy to conflate the two, but it should never be forgotten that the community is made of up individuals.

Re:all good?

[tlhIngan]

So they really weren't that concerned about having an open tor relay? When they invoked OMG terrorists! children! it was just so the board would make an informed decision? Sorry, but for them to claim no stake in the outcome belies their attempt to shut it down.

Not that their response is bad, it just isn't all that believable. Now, if they had said, "I'm disappointed, but at least they made an informed decision" it would come across like they actually believed in what they told the board. This makes it seem like they are acknowledging the fud didn't work.

It reminds me of a story a prof told me about a student who went in to argue about a grade, unsuccessfully. When the student left a friend in the hall asked, "did he buy it?" and the response was "nah." Just like here, didn't really have anything invested in it, and wasn't perturbed when the story didn't get traction.

Well, they were concerned, that's why they shut the relay down when the DHS sent them that note. They turned it off, and put it up for a vote by the board, and since they're librarians, they did research.

(Librarians are awesome).

So they did their research, and they went all in knowing it can be used for bad, but it can also be used for good. And the "good" outweighs any concern they can be helping pedos, terrorists and other "bad people".

So yes, they went all in, informed themselves of the issues and concerns, and decided that the freedom it provides outweighs the negatives.

These people aren't dumb. They actually research the issues themselves and make an informed decision.

Re:all good?

[david_thornley]

Yup. Immediately after the PATRIOT act made it legal to demand library records, the ALA issued a strong recommendation that libraries destroy all records of who checked out what immediately after the item was returned. Don't underestimate librarians.

chalk another one up for the librarians

[GungaDan]

Those folks stand up for freedom.

Send Them a Thank you Note

[terbeaux]

KILTON LIBRARY

80 Main Street
West Lebanon, NH 03784

"Support the Library !!!"

[bill_mcgonigle]

That's what we'd holler to cars driving by as we rallied to support the fine folks who had taken the initial steps at the Kilton Library (you might recognize my name from the article - OK nm it's slashdot). Do read this story to get a better sense for what this sort of street-level activism is like (and how enjoyable it can be).

More pics and a great interview with the librarians on the event page:
https://m.facebook.com/events/...

The good news that no one reports

[gurps_npc]

Crime is down, war is down, pollution per person is down, government taxes are down, and basically 90% of the measureable evils humans have discovered are all going down. But we don't hear about that because things that don't happen or happen less is never news.

Glad to hear some of the good news, where people stand up for privacy rights.

Re:The good news that no one reports

[sims 2]

Sales tax is 9.9% here and the gas tax that pays for the roads is going to go up nationwide shortly. (yes roads are important)

We have eliminated many many diseases to the point that we are now seeing some of them again only because some idiots won't vaccinate their children because they have never heard of polio.

On that note do you think we should teach about the current vaccines and the diseases they prevent? The only one I am aware of that they teach you about in school is the smallpox vaccine. It was so successful that people aren't even vaccinated for it anymore. But for some reason we have never been able to repeat that success.

Crime varies a lot based on where you live.

War? I live in the USA we are in at least 2 wars right now. That's up from 0 pre 9/11 but I assume you are saying that since we are down from 3 wars we are doing better.

Pollution the epa is actually doing a lot of good things overall even though they have broken a lot of things on the way (cfl's,diesel exhaust fluid, low flow toilets, low flow sinks, low flow showers and some how managing to making screwdrivers illegal) most what they broke has been fixed overtime with better designs new equip does not require diesel exhaust fluid, toilets can be low flow and still flush now, sinks and showers need to be built closer to the hot water source for the delay to be reasonable. Cfl bulbs are awful but the new led bulbs will match them in price soon and work so much better although the led's currently still have wattage limitations I expect them to fully replace flourescent bulbs within the next 10 years.

If the government had not mandated the changes would be made we would still be buying the cheap up front incandescent bulbs not realising the long term energy cost
cfl and led bulbs would not be as far along because the gov't artificially created a market and demand for them. low flow appliances would still be a niche product.

Re: Lesson learned?

[bill_mcgonigle]

because we got off our asses and created a groundswell of public support for it, which enabled the people who could do the right thing and wanted to do the right thing to do the right thing.

When it's David vs. Goliath, and then an army shows up to back David, the odds improve dramatically.

Online tools are invaluable but people who just complain online all day never change anything.

Be the change you want to see in the world.

Live Free or Die

[nadaou]

Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death
Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775.

No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional v

Yay Librarians!!

[gstoddart]

If you enjoy having your civil liberties and access to uncensored information .. thank a damned Librarian.

For literally decades they've found themselves on the forefront defending your rights saying "hell no we won't do that" against people who want to burn books, or outlaw various things which shouldn't still be up for debate.

That DHS felt the need to sew a little FUD and bring in the local cops to stir up the bullshit and lies is pathetic. That the library board has sent a big "fuck you" is awesome -- because someone needs to stand up to the fascists and assholes who are constantly trying to say that certain freedoms are just too dangerous to have.

It is literally true that without Librarians fighting to defend these things we might no longer have them. Either from moralizing old bitties, or assholes in government, these rights are often under attack.

Go Librarians, and thank you.

Re:Yay Librarians!!

[thoromyr]

You aren't right though. They do not manually maintain the "No Fly" list, that would be too much effort. They recently admitted that the rules for inclusion are arcane, arbitrary and they can by no means admit to them. Assuredly, anyone who speaks out against the tyrants will be included, for they have adjusted their rules such that it will be inevitable. But there is no personal malice here. No one checked the votes and assigned each party to a "naught" or "nice" outcome.

Nay, the results are objectively determined by secret machinations programmed in the depths of a stygian nightmare. When the bureaucrat calls you forth and summons you to your hidden doom far from the public view it will not be for some sentimental reason, no feeling or emotion on his part. Rather, it will be an entirely sane and rational decision that, for the greater good of the Republic, you be no longer permitted to take part in it.

Reasonable people?

[skaralic]

Both the Library Board and Police acted like reasonable and informed adults. I'm surprised it even made it to the news.