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Startups Push 3D Printers As Industry Leaders Falter

gthuang88 writes: Given the hype around 3D printing, you'd never guess that established leaders like 3D Systems and Stratasys have seen their stock fall by 75 percent in the last year. Big companies like HP, Amazon, and Boeing are getting into the field, too, but startups are still where a lot of the action is. Now Formlabs, a Boston-area startup, has released a new 3D printer that is supposed to be more reliable and higher quality than its predecessors. The device uses stereolithography and is aimed at professional designers and engineers. The question is whether Formlabs---and other startups like MarkForged, Voxel8, and Desktop Metal---can find enough of a market to survive until 3D printing becomes a more mainstream form of manufacturing.

101 comments

  1. 3D printed goatse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    It's the only thing that can save the industry.

    1. Re:3D printed goatse by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    2. Re:3D printed goatse by dreamchaser · · Score: 3, Funny

      He left himself wide open to that one.

    3. Re:3D printed goatse by rubycodez · · Score: 2

      you're all just digging a deeper hole for yourself

    4. Re:3D printed goatse by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      I can't help it. I'm a giver, and I am just giving to the community.

  2. What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you can't make a business off of selling crummy printers to print crummy plastic parts? Too bad, I was hoping my "maker" 3D printed drone company that was going to deliver wireless to IoT in the cloud was going to go public soon. I guess I better hold off buying that fixie bike.

    1. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess I better hold off buying that fixie bike.

      Sellout, a True Maker 3D prints his own bike!

    2. Re:What a surprise! by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      A true 3D maker shows off his 3D printed bike, which only needed frame, rims, tires, sprockets, derailleurs, levers, cables, brakes, kickstand, handlebars, chain, seat and fasteners added to make a completely functioning bicycle almost equivalent to a storebought one! The marvels of 21st century technology are empowerig makers!!

    3. Re:What a surprise! by Buchenskjoll · · Score: 1

      A fixie with a kickstand?? You'll have a hipster fatwa over your head!

      --
      -- Make America hate again!
    4. Re:What a surprise! by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      Fixies don't have derailleurs. So he clearly wasn't talking about a fixie.

    5. Re:What a surprise! by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      I've heard but have not confirmed it is also possible to 3D print a "fixie" bicycle, with a similar but longer procedure having the additional steps of *omitting the addition of*: levers, derailleurs, in some cases brakes to to the handful of plastic that the 3D printer emitted. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to make a sherman tank with my RepRap, only adding armor, turret, engine, transmission, brakes, tracks and wheels, switches, hydraulic pumps, pistons, and lines, levers, knobs, wires, generator, and guns to the brass name plate I'm Reppin'

  3. Given the hype around 3D printing ... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

    ... and that right there is why this is a "No Shit, Sherlock" moment. Stock fell 75%. /sarcasm You don't say!

    3D Printing is still too expensive, and a niche market for the general masses.

    1. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by TWX · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I just don't find enough uses for it to justify the floor or bench space for the machine. In subtractive manufacturing where one takes away material I can work in metal, plastic, and wood. I can cut, plane, sand, shave, drill, tap, or die-cut, and if I pick up one of those tabletop mills, I could mill and otherwise create channels, and these can all be done in three different materials.

      Right now the only practical material I could work with on a 3d printer is plastic, and even then I'm limited to particular types of plastic. Plus, due to the texturing left by most 3d printers I'd have to plane, sand, shave, drill, tap, or die-cut anyway.

      I can see design firms that need to rapid-prototype parts using 3d printers, before they ultimately design molds to cast the final plastic parts in. I can even see a few very specialized applications where the technology makes more sense, especially for one-offs, but otherwise 3d printing isn't mass-production.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All I want is a 3D Food Printer. Pizza, chocolate, candy...yum.

    3. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't think 3d is too expensive anymore as there are a few companies providing good value for your money. New Matter in California and Solidoodle in New York come to mind. New Matters printer is ~$400 and Solidoodles line starts at $700.

      http://newmatter.com/
      http://www.solidoodle.com/

    4. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by mlts · · Score: 3, Insightful

      3D printers remind me of the beige box PC industry in the 1990s, bicycle parts makers in the 1990s (with everything CNC machined and anodized), and the inexpensive MP3 player market.

      What I see is that a bunch of little guys are going to fight amongst themselves, and as soon as there are a few big players, some big company will swoop in, buy them out, and own the playing field, either a single company, or 2-3 firms (just like how paper printing is now, with just a relatively few companies offering models.)

      One can be creative with 3D parts, but there is a limit that the plastic from the current generation can handle. At best, it is something to make to hone an injection mold from so "real" parts can be manufactured. Plus, the parts are rough, so they need sanded and coated with something like Smooth-On's epoxy if using them directly for a task.

    5. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by JazzLad · · Score: 1
      --
      "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
    6. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by vyvepe · · Score: 2

      I just don't find enough uses for it to justify the floor or bench space for the machine. In subtractive manufacturing where one takes away material I can work in metal, plastic, and wood. I can cut, plane, sand, shave, drill, tap, or die-cut, and if I pick up one of those tabletop mills, I could mill and otherwise create channels, and these can all be done in three different materials.

      The problem is that a cheap 3dPrinter can do shapes which would require 5-DOF CNC. These are very expensive. So you can use only plastic in a 3d printer but you can do very complicated shapes. With a cheaper 3 DOF CNC you can use also wood or metals, but the shapes you can produce will be simpler.

    7. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by TWX · · Score: 2

      What are those shapes though, that can't be done subtractively without the expensive 5-axis machine, or can't be cast in some less expensive process? Think of the complexity of a cylinder head or engine block, where there are coolant passages, oil passages, mounting bosses, machined precision valleys, machined precision chambers, and often with modern automobiles, two distinct materials (steel/hardened seats for valves, steel or iron sleeves for aluminum engine blocks) and other difficult characteristics that are much easier to produce through casting and machining than they are through additive methods, and don't require five-axis machines to finish.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    8. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's difficult to justify the cost, both monetarily and learning curve, rather than farming the work out to a machine shop. I worked at a startup that manufactured very expensive widgets and we used a machine shop to fabricate our parts only assembling them in house. They are right down the road, so we used them for many prototypes also. You really have to do economics when doing engineering. If he shop is making 10% profit on something that is 5% of your business, how many parts do you have to sell to justify doing it yourself?

    9. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      You've just described a very niche market.

    10. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by goose-incarnated · · Score: 2

      I just don't find enough uses for it to justify the floor or bench space for the machine. In subtractive manufacturing where one takes away material I can work in metal, plastic, and wood. I can cut, plane, sand, shave, drill, tap, or die-cut, and if I pick up one of those tabletop mills, I could mill and otherwise create channels, and these can all be done in three different materials.

      The problem is that a cheap 3dPrinter can do shapes which would require 5-DOF CNC. These are very expensive. So you can use only plastic in a 3d printer but you can do very complicated shapes. With a cheaper 3 DOF CNC you can use also wood or metals, but the shapes you can produce will be simpler.

      This is a myth perpetuated by the new breed of maker: the hipster arduino connected to a led maker. With a 3-axis mill I can mill a mold for almost any practical shape. Any tool, almost any part, etc.

      (BTW: I called this hype correctly more than two years ago on slashdot :-))

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    11. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by TWX · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Really? Creating discrete sand form negatives, then gluing those sand form negatives together, then filling the finished form with molten metal, letting it cool and harden, then removing the sand is a very niche market?

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    12. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You really have to do economics when doing engineering. If he shop is making 10% profit on something that is 5% of your business, how many parts do you have to sell to justify doing it yourself?

      An engineer is a person who can tell you how to build something for a dollar that any idiot can tell you how to build for two.

    13. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Then you aren't doing interesting enough work. It is different working around a machine shop that serves engineering prototypes or research, where getting performance is more important than shaving pennies off a product price.

      The problem with milling stuff for all but the most trivial projects is figuring out how to best hold an object. When you have no good, strong, flat surfaces, sometimes this becomes very difficult without numerous jigs (and not every material is reasonably castable). While give enough time, you could do just about anything with a simple lathe and a bunch of accessories you can make from scratch with the lathe. But there becomes a point where the time need takes off really fast, and something like a 5-axis machine gets heavy use when you actually have one on hand, and have a steady stream of projects that need lots of curves or would deflect too much if held from a different angle.

    14. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quantum Apostrophe got banned from FARK.com for mocking the pretentious delusions of the 3D fanbois! And probably for making fun of the Space Nutters too...

    15. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could also use them to cast parts.

    16. Re: Given the hype around 3D printing ... by Big_Breaker · · Score: 1

      So print a sacrifical mold and cast the part in aluminum. These are early days... It's not going to change world overnight. But additive manufacture is going to creep up on subtractive. I have a rep rap and it's not so useful, mostly because the i2 design was lousy and the mechatronics are a bit too clockwork. Related - reverse kinetics aren't simple. So what... GE makes turbine blades that are impossible to make via milling or casting. They're top down and enthusiast amateurs do the bottom up. It'll change how we make finished goods in a profound way, just not right away.

    17. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      At a certain level mold making is pretty basic: If you can't make a mold with a 3 axis mill, the part is unlikely to come out.

      'Any tool, almost any part' are bolder claims.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    18. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, so it takes what, 16 hours to print a mars bar?

    19. Re: Given the hype around 3D printing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's also a registered sex offender for masturbating in the office of the woman he used to stalk while she was away. Can't even flip burgers now.

    20. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Plus, the parts are rough, so they need sanded and coated with something like Smooth-On's epoxy if using them directly for a task.

      The recent gen ones printing at a 0.1mm layer height produce surprisingly smooth surfaces. Even at a very coarse 0.3mm layer height a quick brush with acteone (if you're using ABS) smooths it down very well to a smooth, shiny finish. At 0.1mm, it's even easier.

      That doesn't work with PLA of course, but then one chooses the plastic based on what you're going to do with it.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    21. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Are you asking if having a foundery is more niche than owning a table on which one can plonk a 3D printer?

      As someone who's used a 3D printer for lost plastic casting with a gingery furnace, I'd say yes, metal casting is much more niche than 3D printing. I mean sure, anyone can backyard metal cast (assuming they have a back yard, not live in an apartment), in principle, but it's a lot more work being hard physically, messy, hot, dangerous, a bit noisy depending on your air draft, and requires a fair bit of set up and take down, not to mention kit like tongs, crucibles, boxes of sand, flux and so on.

      Don't get me wrong, it's great fun and REALLY expands what you can do with a 3D printer, but compared to using the printer itself, it's very niche. This is why there are a number of 3D print shops and cafes round the middle of London, but entertaining as the idea sounds there's not a single metal casting cafe. I'd totally go if there was.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    22. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well yeah it's not surprising to see Stratasys and 3D Systems price drop, but it's because they are completely failing to capture the new markets for this stuff, while smaller entrants like FormLabs are getting around their patents and eating their lunch. Those companies relied on large business orders on expensive machines, but those machines are going the way of the other kind of "big iron" as the businesses are now buying the smaller machines. So yes, stock fell 75%.

      BTW saying something is "niche" doesn't explain why it isn't "mass market", those are just two ways of saying the same thing. Too expensive is your own opinion, which flies in the face of reality when you see the huge variety of cheap options that are now available. Stratasys built their business on it being way, way more expensive than it is now, which is why they're failing.

    23. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      How can you complain about the bench space and say that you have no problem with a saw, planer, sander, drill, and mill? And then different parts in those tools for each different material you need to work with as well.

      I don't have much positive to say about 3D printing, but the floor or bench space is literally the least of the technology's problems.

    24. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone can make a bridge that doesn't fall apart. You need an engineer to make a bridge that almost falls apart.

    25. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There are 3D printers that work in various sorts of metals. I'm aware of steel and titanium printers (although I believe the titanium requires an argon atmosphere).

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    26. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      You really have to do economics when doing engineering.

      Real engineers know this, and have known it for a very long time. Armchair/hobbyist engineers and those with hopped up titles (I.E. the "engineers" that populate the IT industry and most of the /. demographic), don't.

      An actual real-world engineer is as much a bean counter as he is a mathematician.

    27. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

      "but otherwise 3d printing isn't mass-production"



      That's the point. Duah.



      Mass production = huge volume of identical units to reduce per unit cost. 3D printing, one-off and unique and limited run and prototype iteration items.

    28. Re:Given the hype around 3D printing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too bad the formlabs printer sucks.

    29. Re: Given the hype around 3D printing ... by zortraxMark · · Score: 1

      You need a Zortrax Printer!

  4. Hype is a reason by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Given the hype around 3D printing, you'd never guess that established leaders like 3D Systems and Stratasys have seen their stock fall by 75 percent in the last year

    Hype is the reason the stocks were overinflated to begin with. It was easy to predict. These companies business model was rapid expansion via buyouts, but the problem is that the technology is evolving and improving, which de-values the technology they acquired.

    1. Re:Hype is a reason by thoromyr · · Score: 2

      Ignorance of the market gets modded insightful? Other than Stratasys buying Makerbot (a single purchase), what leads you to say that Stratasys' business model was "rapid expansion via buyouts"? You should also inform yourself about the value of Stratasys vs Makerbot. Yes, Stratasys paid a lot more for Makerbot than it was worth, but that amount is dwarfed by Stratasys' value. They were not, and are not, anywhere close to the same league.

      For the record, Stratasys' strategy has been to sell outdated technology at hyperinflated prices. Buying Makerbot in no way qualifies as rapid expansion, it was only a minor purchase for political reasons. Makerbot had nothing, other than cachet, that Stratasys needed or could use. In fact they have proceeded to "stratays-ize" the Makerbot lineup.

      Your comment about technology devaluation may sound nice, but is utterly irrelevant. Stratasys technology has been outdated for a *long* time and has absolutely nothing to do with "acquisitions" or "rapid expansion".

      Stratasys problem is that they are having a harder and harder time convincing corporations to pay tens of thousands of dollars (or more) for machines based on twenty year old technology.

    2. Re:Hype is a reason by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Not sure if you paid attention to both companies over the last 5 years, but acquisitions were a big part of their plan. It had as much to do with printing services as it did products.

      The point is, those acquisitions drain capital and now are not returning asset value.

    3. Re:Hype is a reason by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      I should have included this link as one reference point;

      http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/...

    4. Re:Hype is a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stratasys purchased more than just Makerbot. They also purchased many other companies that do production using 3D printers, but don't sell 3D printers themselves. All these smaller companies are merged into a big manufacturing arm called Stratasys Direct Manufacturing. I'd say GP was accurate in saying Stratasys saw rapid expansion via buyouts.

      Source: I work for one of the companies that was bought out.

  5. Other companies worth mentioning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are are a few other companies worth mentioning too. New Matter is one of them. They seem to have raised the bar /standard of affordable 3d printing. It's a pretty looking printer too. http://newmatter.com/

    1. Re:Other companies worth mentioning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh. That is not ugly. Might help convince the wife 'we' need one :)

    2. Re:Other companies worth mentioning... by Anomalyst · · Score: 1

      Is a shame that the site requires javascript just to access it. Ignorant marketing schmucks.

      --
      There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
  6. 3D Printer helps a lot to grow in you business by lexmarkprinterinfo · · Score: 0

    Right now in the world, Every business required digital marketing and This Digital marketing needs graphic designer to show-off best the design for better business running on the road, television, newspaper. Which helps a lot to increase sales and queries. So These kind of 3D printer is helpful for us.

  7. It's over, geeks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not some fundamental, game-changing, society-sweeping, post-scarcity, engineering miracle.

    Except for a few specialized uses, 3D printing is the 2010's equivalent of the Pet Rock.

    Get over it, nerds. And you might as well cancel your vacation on Mars too, you delusional loons.

    1. Re: It's over, geeks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, now: coming straight from someone who used to be rated lower than nerds, that's rich. How's your grand plan to "win her back", loser?

    2. Re:It's over, geeks by BVis · · Score: 1

      3D printing is the 2010's equivalent of the Pet Rock

      Right now it is. People are going to find uses for it we can't think of today.

      Your point also could have been made without insulting people.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    3. Re: It's over, geeks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He can't make any point without insulting people. Actually, he can't LIVE without insulting people. I could tell you all about him but it's just too pathetic. I mean, he tried to threaten a guy with a cheap butterfly knife and managed to close it on his own fingers! I'm not kidding. We had to wait until he was done jumping all around bleeding and crying and sat down to sniffle before we could actually administer first-aid. Too bad paramedics can't refuse to aid people who most obviously do not deserve it.

  8. Mainstream form of manufacturing? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    3d printing will _never_ be a mainstream form of manufacturing.

    It lives in the prototyping space. For finished parts it can't compete with other forms, with the narrow exception of un-moldable or un-machinable parts.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    1. Re:Mainstream form of manufacturing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Correct. And further, they'll never sell more than 640K of them...

    2. Re:Mainstream form of manufacturing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe that 3D Printing will be used to make flying cars powered by fuel cells.
      Since they all have the same likely hold of being main stream products.

      How many 3D printers will it take to replace a single Multi-cavity water cooled injection molding machine?

    3. Re:Mainstream form of manufacturing? by rubycodez · · Score: 2

      the prototyping space has had superior alternatives for over 20 years. the fad type 3D printers are toys, the real ones have been around for a loooong time

    4. Re:Mainstream form of manufacturing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Comparing information processing and storage to real world matter is stupid.

    5. Re:Mainstream form of manufacturing? by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      Correct. And further, they'll never sell more than 640K of them...

      Computers had computer programs and graphical displays as their killer app. Even if you found a "killer app" like a high efficiency battery lattice that can only be 3D printed, there is still no reason that it wouldn't be cheaper to have them printed at a factory instead of each person printing their own. Printing high quality food is the only thing that comes to mind as something that could possibly get a 3D printer to be a common household fixture. Either that or printing things like hammers on demand and then recycling them after you're done using them but both of those "killer apps" are years if not decades away from existing.

    6. Re:Mainstream form of manufacturing? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You could build a printer for extruded food today.

      You pallet would be 'cheesy poofs, slim jim, cake icing, chicken nugget and milk chocolate'. Good luck.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    7. Re:Mainstream form of manufacturing? by bkmoore · · Score: 4, Insightful

      3d printing will _never_ be a mainstream form of manufacturing.

      First of all, mainstream manufacturing uses multiple manufacturing methods, such as milling, casting, forging, deep drawing, injection moulding, stamping, bending, etc. You use the best method for the application and desired quality and quantity. At best 3D printing could supplement traditional manufacturing methods, such as for making custom parts in very low quantities. But the idea that 3D printing could be a viable alternative for several or most traditional methods is ludicrous and a sign that a lot of 3D fans don't really understand manufacturing and have spent too much time in design studios and too little on the factory floor.

    8. Re:Mainstream form of manufacturing? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      3d printing will _never_ be a mainstream form of manufacturing.

      Depends on what you mean "main stream". You seem to insist that main stream is essentially mass manufacture which pretty much implies consumer products. There's a vast amount of stuff out there that isn't mass manufactured, and is in fact bespoke. Every machine shop out there is churning out small volumes of bespoke parts.

      3D printing will be yet another tool in the arsenal of making stuff. It's also perfectly fine for finished parts depending on what level of finish you need. It's up to you (the engineer) to specify the level of finish you need to meet the goal.

      Actually the Form 1 printer has excellent surface finish as it happens and very high precision. Limited choice of materials of course, but the finish isn't something you can reasonably complain about. The surface finish on the recent generation of FDM printers is also quite remarkably good. Sure it won't work for sliding interfaces or anything where you need a mirror finish, but how often do you need that anyway.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    9. Re:Mainstream form of manufacturing? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      It's never going to be a mainstream method of mass production, but there's lots of money to be made in the prototype and limited run markets.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  9. One would hope so by dlenmn · · Score: 2

    has released a new 3D printer that is supposed to be more reliable and higher quality than its predecessors.

    I'm glad they haven't started to release products that are less reliable and lower quality than its predecessors; that's the sign of a mature field...

  10. 3D printing is like photo printing by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To me, 3D printing is very similar to photo printing. Most people don't print enough that it makes sense to have their own printer at home. Just like there are some people who are really into photography, and own their own photo printers, or even their own dark room, there are enthusiasts who really want to build their own stuff that would really get a use out of a 3D printer. But the majority of people who just want to print off a new battery cover for their remote control, or knob for the clothes dryer would be much better off just going down to the local Walmart or Costco and getting them to print out the object, just like they currently do with photos.

    I'm not going to spend $200+ on a photo printer when I could easily get better prints by going down to Walmart and getting pictures for 10 cents a piece. Similarly, I'm not going to spend $500 on a 3D printer when I could go down to Staples, Home Depot, Walmart, Costco, or whoever is providing the service and get access to a much higher quality 3D printer. Even my local library has a 3D printer I can use for the cost of the consumables.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    1. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recently fell off my bike and cracked the Shimano shifter name plates. They don't make them anymore, and I think I've finally found the one use-case for 3D printers, except for the fact that I have to make a 3D model first.

      http://www.bikeparts.com/productinfo/Ultegra-ST-6510-Nameplate-and-Fiing-Screw-45604-27850.html

      Yup, it's old, but the bike still works.

    2. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      there are a buttload of those nameplates on ebay, like one guy has 350 sold 150 left

      really, this points out the thing about 3D printing, it usually is the very most expensive solution to a problem

    3. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

      really, this points out the thing about 3D printing, it usually is the very most expensive solution to a problem.

      Fine. That may be true today. The people involved with 3D printing are typically looking toward the future. It's not unreasonable to expect that 3D printers will enjoy the same exponential growth (and cost reductions) as computers, green energy, and internet access have had.

    4. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not unreasonable to expect that 3D printers will enjoy the same exponential growth (and cost reductions) as computers, green energy, and internet access have had.

      Why not? You used the power of hindsight to pick industries that boomed. Why not assign them the same exponential growth as horses, steam engine automobiles, railroad locomotives, flying cars and space shuttles instead?

    5. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, there isn't. Each generation of Ultegra has different and totally incompatible name plates. It's a well-known Shimano "thing".

      I have the early 9 speed Ultegra ST-6510. The only parts on eBay are 3D printed by some dude, and I ain't paying 30$ US (that's like 40$ CDN) for something that looks like THAT:

      http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shiman...

      I'd rather spend winter learning 3D CAD modelling and get them made in aluminum.

    6. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

      Because 3D printers will eventually be able to make the parts to make other 3D printers. I expect to see more than exponential growth because of this. Explosive growth.

    7. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, what's your time frame for this?

    8. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I lost one I my bike. They aren't functional so I haven't gotten around to replacing it yet. I only have 2400 level shifters though, so I really don't need to show off to anybody what my groupset is. Not that they had anything printed on them in the first place.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    9. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There are companies that will happily take your CAD drawing and money and 3D-print something for you. It's going to be a lot cheaper than buying your own.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    10. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because 3D printers will eventually be able to make the parts to make other 3D printers. I expect to see more than exponential growth because of this. Explosive growth.

      So I suppose horses couldn't make new horses? That must be why the slave industry never took off in the Americas. Also, "more than exponential growth" doesn't mean what you think it means.

    11. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      Yes there are, plenty of genuine Ultegra ST-6510 nameplates for less than $9 out there. Your online shoppng skills must be truly abysmal.

      Hey I have shimano parts on my early 1980s 12 speed too. I've replaced various things a few times

    12. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      No, those plastic squirting toys have little to do with how real things are made. There are serious 3D printers by the way that just don't deal in two types of plastic, and other ways of rapid prototyping besides traditional mills, lathes, etc. Those types of things have been around for decades and someone "looking to future" should be on that path and not the yoda head squirting path.

    13. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

      There are serious 3D printers by the way that just don't deal in two types of plastic, and other ways of rapid prototyping besides traditional mills, lathes, etc.

      You probably meant to respond to the guy that who was talking about plastic 3D printers. I wasn't talking about those, We can use sand and sunlight, the most abundant and cheapest feedstocks we have to print glass. There are printers for printing metal, building materials, human tissues, etc. I get that.

      Traditional mill, and lathes, use a subtractive manufacturing process - you take a piece of lumber for instance and remove what you don't want. 3D printers create products using an additive process so in theory they use less material. They should be more efficient and cheaper than the traditional methods eventually.

    14. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      In some cases that's true but adding little bits of molten or dissolved steel won't form as strong of an object as traditional methods. And good luck making a strong wooden object by additive methods, I think we call that carboard. We can mold glass much more cheaply than printing.

    15. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

      If your application requires a piece of wood, you should use a piece of wood. If molded glass is required, you should use molded glass. No one is disputing that. Those materials aren't going away.

      3D printing doesn't reduce what you can do, it increases what you can do.

    16. Re:3D printing is like photo printing by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      yes, I used to work in prototyping and I know the value. however, the typical hobbyist uses I see are needlessly complicated and horribly expensive alternatives to sane solutions. Like custom fitted grips for tools, there's a cheap, fast and very easy way to make one that fits your hand exactly....

  11. Trendy. by xenotransplant · · Score: 1

    What do you use one for? Why all the hype? What would the average face book addicted soccer mom need one of these for? 3d printers sure are trendy, but they lack a "killer app".

  12. "mainstream manufacturing"? Don't hold your breath by enjar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is no way that 3d printing will hold a candle to "mainstream manufacturing". Many manufactured parts are made very quickly, and at scale. If you take common plastic molded part, they are likely to be running cycle times of under a minute and have multiple parts coming out of the mold simultaneously. Sure, the mold and the injection molding machine aren't cheap, but they can pound out a lot of copies of your plastic part for a long time and get the unit cost down really low. You will also get better surface finish and appearance than a 3d printed part, as well as having little or no waste (depending on mold design/part geometry) and very consistent material properties in your part.

    This doesn't even get into manufacturing things made out of metal. I know there are various cool 3d printers that are using lasers and other stuff to make metal parts, but that's not going to hold a candle to the manufacturing processes that give you many of the common metal things you use every day, or that you rely on every day (think of all the manufactured metal things in a car, bus, or even a bicycle).

    3d printing has a number of applications for one-off parts, prototyping and low volume work. It's definitely a great thing, the first company I worked for in the 90's paid out the nose for a Stratasys machine because they recognized the value of the tool for prototyping and getting to market faster -- but the 3d printer in no way would have ever made production parts. I'm sure people will dream up new and novel ways of using the technology, but it's going to be a long time before 3d printing ever supplants traditional volume manufacturing methods and techniques, if ever.

  13. Why isn't it more mainstream? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    From TFA of this Slashvertisement: "The Form 2 sells for $3,499."

    Even if aimed at professionals generally, prices still have to come much lower before it's a tool for anything but the dedicated hobbyist.

  14. just f*cking stop it by joss · · Score: 2

    How many non-news articles can you possibly print about 3d printing.

    I worked for 3d systems in the 90s, it was fun and vaguely novel back then. I have been hearing about this stuff like its the next new thing for over 2 decades, and what are the fantastic advances we've had during that time.. no, don't tell me, please, seriously, don't. We don't get 5 articles a week about virtual reality, or jetpacks, or flying cars,

    --
    http://rareformnewmedia.com/
    1. Re:just f*cking stop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Today at Oak Ridge National Lab in Oak Ridge, TN I saw a 3D printed house and a 3D printed utility vehicle. I'm sure you can find a news article about this event, there were a lot of news people in attendance.

    2. Re:just f*cking stop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you didn't, just like none of the previous "3D printed houses" or "3D printed cars" were anything of the sort.

    3. Re:just f*cking stop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "3D printed houses" aren't 3D printed, unless you consider building a house out of lego blocks to also be "3D printing", since it amounts to the same thing.

    4. Re:just f*cking stop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anything at all has been renamed to "3D printing" to satisfy the deep spiritual need of certain geeks to believe that progress is eternal.

    5. Re:just f*cking stop it by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Some of the 'crete ones are somewhat printed.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    6. Re: just f*cking stop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eternal, not. Enough to automate your job and throw you into the streets, yes. :)

  15. Given the hype by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

    I would have expected stocks to fall more than 75%.

  16. Formlabs? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    Had one - never turned out anything other than a pile of goo. Tried two units, same results. They blamed it on bad materials, bad setup, etc. After that was all covered and eliminated, it was a factory-misaligned mirror - and I was supposed to spend the 5-6 hours to try to calibrate it. Took 6 months of fighting to get them to take it back.

    Went to a Stratasys and never looked back.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  17. Huh by koan · · Score: 1

    3D printing becomes a more mainstream form of manufacturing.

    Why would it?
    You can't print things fast enough with consumer level gear to make it a business, they are too expensive to be anything other than a spendy hobbyist toy.
    If you are referring to industrial 3d printing that already occurs.

    Not to mention most of the 3d printed stuff I come across is of lower quality than already existing manufacturing techniques.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  18. We are in transition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Years from now - possibly fewer than most of us think - everyone may have and use a 3d printer all the time. (Or multiple ones.) They're obviously just not ready for mass consumption. These are the "5 MB hard drives the size of a desk" generation. (Some printer makers may be upset with that because they're way more advanced / affordable / etc.; they are the "30 MB hard drives the size of a suitcase" generation.)

    Comments about limitations and sacrifice of floor space and niche and whatnot are all appropriate right now. But I think we should remember many technologies (or technology families) were like that. Telegraphs were groundbreaking but limited. Some people didn't see the need to have a telephone in their own house. Later, nobody could see the reason for a telephone in every room. Now, most of us carry our telephone around in our pockets and many of them can connect up to two completely different kinds of networks for making phone calls, and video calls, and downloading updates to Candy Crush. Rinse and repeat for many other technologies in our day-to-day lives. (Remember when the idea of adding a second, smaller oven to your kitchen which couldn't - and still can't - cook evenly seemed about pointless?)

    I think just like Internet-installation of games has nearly finished off physical media installation, 3d printers will supplant going to stores for small things whose purpose is to be entirely or largely structural. Not long after that, basic electronics with no precision moving parts may follow suit. And more advanced electronics may come in kit form, with bits you arrange into a skeleton you print in step 1 in your 3d printer, to then be incorporated into the finished device.

    Of course the first wave of big innovators may be long gone and forgotten. Aren't they usually?

    1. Re: We are in transition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Years from now there won't be any 3D printer. And there won't be any computers, or the internet. We're running out of resources and energy. Progress is grinding to a halt and is about to go into full reverse.

  19. 3D is Huge by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    Most items start out without a market and then acquire a following. When rifles first existed a bow and arrow might have seemed like a better choice. But as rifles became perfected there was a point at which a bow and arrow was no match at all. 3D printing has a huge potential in creating housing and large objects rather than tiny projects might be where 3D printing first disrupts a major industry.

    1. Re:3D is Huge by Buchenskjoll · · Score: 1

      So you're suggesting we print bows and arrows before riffles?

      --
      -- Make America hate again!
  20. I just got my first 3D printer by Rastl · · Score: 1

    I just got my printer this week. It's a home printer that's pretty much 'point and click' for operation. Thingiverse has a lot of files to use as I learn CAD.

    The niche I see is toys. Lots and lots of toys. Different kinds of toys. If you have kids this is a great option. They don't need to be perfect, the filament runs me about $15 per kilo, and once it's running it just runs.

    I'm planning on using it for prototyping some things for my business but the quality isn't there for production. But I can get the items right before sending them off to be printed on a 'real' 3D printer and save myself money and headache.

    Was it worth it? Can I decide that after less than a week? Yes and yes. I think it's worth what I paid for what I want. And I won't use it all the time but I will use it consistently.