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The Case Against Non-technical Managers

Kelerei writes: Lorraine Steyn, owner of a small software development company in Cape Town, has published an opinion piece that may hit too close to home for some: making a case against non-technical managers. She writes about the all too common disconnect between IT staff and the boardroom table and states that 'one of the ways to solve this, is to bring managers closer to the coal face. Technical training programs are critical for your development team to keep apace with change, and investing the time for IT management to do the training too can pay dividends... [if a manager feels he doesn't] have enough time to get that close to the detail of what your department does, think about whether you would appoint a non-financial manager to handle your money'.

29 of 152 comments (clear)

  1. It's not just IT by Duckman5 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I work in pharmacy and I can't tell you the number of people over me who aren't even certified as a pharmacy technician. They either came up through the retail division or through some MBA pathway and they sit there and make decisions about how a retail pharmacy should run without having worked in any sort of pharmacy. It's how you get stupid stuff like a 15 minute guarantee that prioritizes speed over patient safety.
    It's difficult because the executives at the top don't understand why it's a problem. How are you supposed to bring your issues to someone who has no idea how those issues impact your daily life? I mean, how long does it take to put a sticker on a bottle and fill it with pills? I can imagine it's the same in IT. In a previous life I'd fallen into a couple of IT positions (by virtue of "knowing computers" better than the other people at the small business) and trying to explain security to them is like trying to explain an egg shell to a brick wall. I can only imagine what IT people in a dedicated department must go through trying to justify themselves to 20 layers of management. Good luck.

    1. Re:It's not just IT by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I can only imagine what IT people in a dedicated department must go through trying to justify themselves to 20 layers of management.

      The path of least resistance is to change jobs while still employed. Maybe 20 layers of management can get a clue by the high turnover in the I.T. department. Or maybe not. Great I.T. techs walk in the face of insurmountable B.S., leaving behind the lousy I.T. techs who should be wearing red shirts.

    2. Re:It's not just IT by TWX · · Score: 2

      I think his point is that these people don't even have the minimal training of a pharmacy technician, something that takes little time to get but can probably be any eye-opener for the day-to-day procedures of the job. Getting training and spending a little bit of time working might actually give the decision maker some kind of knowledge as to how the workflow in the pharmacy actually functions, so that they're better able to make informed decisions as to how to change or improve, or what kinds of negatives will go along with what positives.

      If management actually listens to their professionals-in-position then they don't themselves necessarily need to be professionals of that discipline themselves, but that's often not the case. I've had nontechnical bosses that were good bosses, and I've had nontechnical bosses that were bad bosses. I've had technical bosses that were bad bosses (often lying or otherwise obfuscating the details to their superiors and subordinates) and I've had technical bosses that were good to work for.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    3. Re: It's not just IT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How about an example with Mechanical Engineers? I've had both technical and non-technical managers. In both cases I've had good luck and bad luck. A good manager doesn't have to be a technical person, they have to listen to their subordinates. When you tell your manager that something can't be reasonably fine or shouldn't be done their job requires them to listen to the technical experts on the project. No one person can be an expert on the whole project, so you might get a guy that is a good medical engineer, but no experience in industrial design.

      In my opinion, a good manger is one who knows he isn't the expert. Listen to your people. A technical guy full of preconceptions of how things should be done is a huge hindrance. While a non-technical guy that can bring multiple ideas together and just make a decision, at the end if the day, is invaluable to a project.

    4. Re:It's not just IT by TWX · · Score: 2

      Or if the money / benefits are good enough with a lot of layers between upper management and the IT staff, the layers essentially insulate the end-workers from scrutiny and blame and no matter what the upper management calls for, procedures at the bottom do not change in the slightest.

      Scott Adams in one of his Dilbert compilation books wrote of a quality initiative instituted by the upper management of Pacific Bell. By the time it trickled-down to him as an engineer the only change he saw was, "Quality!" printed on the top of the undersized notepads available in the supply closet.

      A lot of it is perception. Intermediate managers choose what to report up and down the chain, and depending on how they feel about themselves, about the people below them, about the people above them, and about the place in general they can choose what gets shared up and down the chain. The IT department could be doing phenomenal work but if the IT manager has an axe to grind that success might be glossed-over. If the department is doing poorly, the manager could cherry-pick successes to make them sound more important than they are and can butter-up the upper management with platitudes and socialization to make failures suddenly turn into successes. Both are true even if there are degrees of independent metrics, as it's sometimes hard to quantify service and support when it can't be measured in widgets produced or terribly easily on customer satisfaction.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    5. Re:It's not just IT by pete6677 · · Score: 2

      Serious question here, why does it seem to take so long to put pills into a bottle? Why wouldn't standard doses of standard medicine be pre-packaged at the factory? I really want to know.

    6. Re:It's not just IT by Njorthbiatr · · Score: 4, Informative

      You're about half-right.

      A noncertified tech does as you describe, but these people don't touch pills at all.

      A certified technician has to pass an exam. You've got to know more than how to read labels, since they're the ones often filling prescriptions. It's important they know how drugs work, their mechanism for action, the routes of administration, not to mention the test requires you to memorize around 200 of the top drugs used (and all of their properties, naturally). Some pharmacy techs do not even work in a retail pharmacy and will be preparing IV and other kinds of medication in a more laboratory like setting in a hospital (or otherwise).

      It's far from the unskilled labor you're making it out to be. A lot of people even go to school to become a pharmacy tech.

    7. Re: It's not just IT by NeoMorphy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are a couple of problems with that.

      A company, especially a large one, would have multiple levels of management. A vice president has meeting with his directors, they can't answer until they talk to their direct reports who can't answer until they talk to their direct reports who actually know something. You end up with high latency for even simple topics.

      If the intermediate managers have no technical background, you will end up with a grapevine effect. If you don't understand what you are getting from your direct reports how can you effectively write it down in preparation for the upcoming meeting?

      "The application has a high turn rate and the high latency on the network is causing it to be slow"

      "He said the network was too slow."

      "I was told that we doubled the bandwidth on the network. What are you talking about?

      "Upper management said it can't be the network, they had the bandwidth doubled."

      "It's not a bandwidth problem, it's a high latency problem.

      "I don't understand. Should we have networking check to see if there is a problem with the network? I''l setup a meeting with the networking group."

      They have to understand the technology, otherwise the grapevine effect will kill you. The bigger the company, the worse it will get.

      Finally, if you have multiple direct reports, how do you resolve a conflict of ideas when you have no idea what they are talking about? Put it to a vote? An experienced manager with a technical background would be able to ask the right questions to determine the pros and cons of each idea.

    8. Re: It's not just IT by mopower70 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A good manager doesn't have to be a technical person, they have to listen to their subordinates. When you tell your manager that something can't be reasonably fine or shouldn't be done their job requires them to listen to the technical experts on the project.

      I've been on both sides of the managerial fence, and in my experience, you can't have one without the other. A good manager can't listen to their subordinates if they can't understand what they're hearing. It's like explaining color to a blind man. One of the primary responsibilities of a manager is communication. He or she has to be technically savvy enough to not only understand the decisions his direct reports are making, but be able to translate those decisions into the appropriate level of technical detail to the people he or she reports to. And that coin has two sides: a manager must also have enough business savvy to understand the decisions of his superiors and be able to translate them to his direct reports.

      A manager who makes decisions on the say-so of his subordinates without being technically conversant enough to actually understand and explain why it's a good decision, isn't a manager at all: she's a proxy. The same goes for a manager who just tells his reports what to do without understanding why his own managers want him to do it.

    9. Re: It's not just IT by chipschap · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When I was managing multiple groups and couldn't possibly understand everything about everything that everyone did, I handled the "grapevine" problem in a very simple way. When I had a meeting with my bosses, I brought along the person on staff who knew the topic. Sometimes I had to do a little coaching, reminding them that the next level up really had no background in his or her area, but it nearly always worked out and we avoided the delays and miscommunications otherwise encountered.

      Generally, the staffer liked the idea of being trusted and getting positive exposure with executive management. And in giving a voice and giving credit to the people who actually knew the topic, I definitely looked good in front of my bosses. It was almost always a win-win.

    10. Re:It's not just IT by KGIII · · Score: 2

      So you're saying you don't bathe, wear clean clothing, and are an asshole?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    11. Re: It's not just IT by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2

      I've had both technical and non-technical managers. In both cases I've had good luck and bad luck.

      This. It seems to me that there's an awful lot of confirmation bias at play in the comments here, when the fact is that many of us can think of counterexamples that disprove the notion that non-technical managers are always a bad idea. Just because a woman cuts you off in traffic, it doesn't mean that women, as a rule, are incompetent drivers, and just because a non-technical boss does a lousy job, it doesn't mean that non-technical folks are bad managers. It could just be that the one person was a lousy driver (who happened to be a woman) and that the other person was a lousy manager (who just happened to have a non-technical background).

      I've had good managers and bad, from both sides of the technical spectrum. As you said, a good manager understands when they're out of their depth and finds someone who can fill those gaps. Technical managers could be argued to better have the ability to recognize that problem more readily, but I've seen just as many technical managers think that they know it all because they came from a technical background, so I honestly don't think they have a leg up in this regard.

  2. Not just a technical management problem. by CraigCruden · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I see this as a wider problem, not just with managers.

    It is no different than the problem I have seen with many developers/programmers who are unwilling to learn (to the point of fighting it) the business that they are developing software for. Most developers develop software for some business other than for other developers and refusing to educate yourself about the business that you are developing for limits the usefulness of those resources.

    Similarly, Managers managing technical people should learn what they are managing - though they don't necessarily have to worry about the details of it. Of course the smaller the company the more knowledge technically that manager should have since there is less room for specialization.

    1. Re:Not just a technical management problem. by scamper_22 · · Score: 2

      Fundamentally, the issue is greater than the hiring decision of one person.

      It really depends on the structure of your organization.
      I'm a developer who really needs to understand the domain of what I'm working in. But that takes a lot of time and effort. Party it is my personality. Partly, it is that I come from a history of small companies.

      Today I work at a bank. While I'm valued for my need to know the domain. The truth it, I don't need to know. They have a BA for this. An architect for that. Separate teams and engagements for this and that. I could literally be a simple coder here.

      Similarly, when I had worked for tech companies, I always wanted technical managers. Now at the bank, I'd rather have a non-technical manager who can work with all the corporate antics that go on. You need to engage all these teams, get funding for every project, fight back against other teams, motivate people... to a far greater degree I'd even thought productively possible.

      Sure many times the very best can always do everything.
      The developer who can code backend and UI very well.
      The manager who can do people management and technical knowledge well...

      But those people are few and far between. For the general case, you need to look at your organization and decide what matters more and hire accordingly.

      Of course all this falls apart when there's just no budget for multiple people and people are looking for a superheros to solve their resourcing problems.

  3. The are on both ends of the scale by Kjella · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The non-technical manager who understands his job is the best, they stay out of the decision-making while getting the necessary high level information they need.
    The technical manager who understands his job is second best, he can get too involved in low level design and decisions but overall he'll make sound decisions and play his part in office politics.
    The technical manager who doesn't understand his job can be a pretty terrible manager of budgets, estimates, schedules, deadlines and that short of thing but at least the results are technically sound. The non-technical manager who doesn't understand his job is absolutely worst. You get management by some silly theory with metrics that don't make sense and estimates that don't exist with the accuracy they want.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:The are on both ends of the scale by trout007 · · Score: 2

      IMHO the perfect managment structure would seperate business management and technical managment similar to how power is split between two houses of congress. You would have the business people that should be experts on the market. (As much as can be known). What product or services a company should investigate and what price the market can bear. The technical people of the same status in the company should be give inputs on how much things will cost and how long it would take to meet the deadlines. Executive managment would take inputs from both and decide what to do. Business may have an innovative idea that the market would pay alot for but the technical people can shoot it down with costs and budget. On the flip side the technical people could come up with a great idea that would be revolutionary but the business people could determine the reasons the market wouldn't support the price needed to make it profitable.

      To do this you need two paths for promotions. One for technical and one for business. Too many times people abandon the technical because the only way to get a promotion is to go into business managment (technical mangment doesn't exist in many places). And if you focus on managment you lose technical ability.

      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
  4. Case study: Volkswagon. by quintessencesluglord · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Does anyone believe that VW didn't have technical managers? In the end, did it really make a difference?

    I'd also argue requiring manager to come up from the ranks, while helpful in some respects, precludes the idea non-technical managers shouldn't have been attending bootcamps and the like in the first place. I'm expected to keep current in my field. Why should the bar be set so low for management not to learn about the department they are managing from day one?

    That this is even under discussion highlights how utterly worthless most management is.

    And in a even grander scheme of things, it makes me question the very notion of meritocracy. This is not the best and the brightest. This is barnacles on the engine of progress.

  5. Skip the whole Peter Principle by goodmanj · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think the logic is: thanks to the Peter Principle, managers will always be incompetent. So why not just hire incompetent people from the get-go?

  6. What are you "managing"? by Corporate+T00l · · Score: 2

    I think we need to be more precise about the terms used when describing "manager". To a large extent, financial managers or portfolio managers don't manage people, they manage the finance or portfolio. Somehow, in the IT industry, we've developed a different terminology around the term "manager", where IT managers are people who manage IT "workers" rather than managing IT itself.

    If we go all the way up to CIOs and CFOs, we see a similarity in usage. A non-financial CFO would be kind of a joke, a non-IT CIO would be the same. However, these "C" suite officers don't necessarily then have the entirety of IT or finance reporting into them. Sometimes they only manage small teams to provide "guidance" and "leadership" and the bulk of the workers report up to a COO or CEO.

    I think across all industries, you do have conflicting notions as to whether people managers should be more skilled in the task that their people are doing, or more skilled in managing people and organizations. These are different types of specialty skills and while it would be great to want all managers to have it all, there are availability constraints that would make it difficult to source omniscient intellect for every position.

  7. That's probably by Duckman5 · · Score: 2

    Honestly, as far as the US is concerned, that's probably the result of socialized healthcare. When you only have one insurance company and one formulary to deal with, it's a lot easier for the doctors to write for something that's going to be payed for. And, if they know it won't be payed for, they don't need to wait for the pharmacy to let them know before they start the paperwork for a prior authorization.
    A LOT of what slows down your prescription here in the states is third party rejections. Even if it's not your med, it may take me a few minutes to call the insurance company to get the override for a therapy change that they should have let me put in myself. That's assuming I don't have to write up a fax and send it in to the doctor so THEY can get an override. It's obnoxious.
    Considering Canada has socialized medicine, though, I have no idea what's slowing them up.

  8. It depends on the state by Duckman5 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It depends on the state. Neither Ohio or PA required anything back in 2008 (not sure about now). Here in Florida, we just started registering the technicians a few years ago. Prior to that, there were national certifications like the ExCPT and the PTCB which could help you land a job (and hopefully get payed better) but was NOT required. You literally just had to have a high school diploma and some semblance of competence. Now you either got grandfathered in (with like 1000+ hours) or you complete a board approved training program (which can be completed on the job as long as it's done within 6 months of hire).
    But when I started many years ago as a pharmacy tech, I spent two days in a computer room doing training then I was counting pills and helping patients.
    You are right, however, about IV compounding. In most hospitals it's done by a tech. The FDA has gotten crazy strict about it lately after a lot of mishaps, so now you need to take a lot of training in USP 797 before they will even let you in the clean room.

  9. I don't care if my superiours are techies or not by Qbertino · · Score: 2

    ... and neither should anybody else.

    Managers don't need to now tech beyond basic principal levels.
    They just should do their job properly, which actually does include just freaking come to me when there's a techical issue at hand or a deal with technical details to sign or the technical part of a project that needs evaluating. And all that has nothing to do wether a maneging position is techie or not, it has to do wether the manager is a good one or a bad one.
    If management sells something to the customer that tech can't deliver within the set parameters and managers havn't ask tech before, then they've screwed up and aren't worth the salary they're raking in.

    I don't care wether my boss can do PHP, MySQL or Linux CLI. I can show him some good parts whenever those may be useful, but heaven forbid that he wastes his time with PHP LDAP or some strange MySQL bug or something else. That's my frickin job! I'm the one doing those extra hours to make it work - he's supposed to put in those extra hours to get a hold of new customers and sell them gigs ... and *then* ask me how the margins are and what hours we have to expect to put into the project.

    My 2 cents.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  10. Waaa Waaa by r-diddly · · Score: 2

    Sure, sure, another article about how the technicians know better than the managers. Half the time the conclusion is "Doggone it they should let US run the company!" whereas this one falls in the other half, namely "Those guys would run the company so much better if they just understood us!"

    Bit of hubris there. People need to be aware of the limitations of their knowledge. The Dunning-Kruger effect is in full force, both for a manager looking at technical tasks, AND for a technician looking at management tasks. They are separate fields, and they should communicate, but remain separate. There will always be tension because their ways of looking at the world, and even their ideas about what constitutes a "good outcome," are inherently different.

  11. Some of them do by Duckman5 · · Score: 2

    What your asking about is called "Unit of Use" in the industry and quite a few companies offer them. If they don't and it's a popular drug, other companies called pharmacy repackagers will do it for them. For the most part, I love them. I just grab your drug off the shelf and slap a label on it. No counting, no verifying that the right pill just came out of the open bottle, nothing. Just labeling. That's the easy part, though. The reason it takes so long are the myriad of other distractions: the phone, insurance rejects, bad handwriting, patient inquiries, etc. Then there's also that other part: making sure the doctors aren't trying to kill you. Not all medications get along nicely. Some combinations will make you feel ill, some will make one med not work, and some will just outright kill you. Your primary care might not have gotten the memo from your cardiologist that he just changed your blood pressure medication. So, that antidepressant that slows down your heart a little bit along with that other med from your cardiologist may cause your heart to pump too slowly to perfuse your body. If I don't catch that and give you your med, you could die. So, I have to call one (or possibly both) of your doctors to see which is more important for you. There's more that goes on behind the counter besides lick, stick, count, and pour.

  12. The problem lies in numbers by Kokuyo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As others have mentioned, whether a manager is technically inclined or not doesn't have all that much impact on whether he's good.

    As a German psychologist and management trainer once said, most people either have people skills or organizational/technical skills. A good manager/boss needs both. And guess what, only about 10% of the population have an affinity for both.

    This basically means that for every nine employees, you can have only one manager! And since you usually have more than one layer of management, you need beyond nine people per lowest management body to make that cut. I don't know about the US but in Switzerland, we sometimes designate a teamleader to a two man team.

    There are just not enough competent people in existence to fill that many management roles. Simple as that. Simplify management structures. Use only those managers who actually can manage and weed out the donkey droppings. But seeing as, obviously, 50% of people are below average and some of those suck massively, that's going to be hard.

  13. I need nontechnical managers by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    to protect me from other non-technical managers so I can get work done. It's just the way things are and they way people are. I need someone watching out for me and my departments well being (and the well being of the company as a whole). That's a full time and surprisingly difficult job. It'd be nice if it wasn't. It would also be nice if we lived in a Star Trek style socialist Utopia. We don't.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  14. Re: I don't care if my superiours are techies or n by joe_frisch · · Score: 2

    I think a manager needs to understand enough of the technology to make good decisions, and to know if their employees are technically competent.

    I manage a small RF group. We recently had to decide on doing and I/Q or DDC based system for a high channel count receiver. I feel that I need to know enough about both of those to understand the trade-offs. Since this is an unusual application; a sensor system, not a data system, its important to know if the most commonly used solution for most applications applies here. The trade-off is not simple, there are differences in firmware complexity, calibration systems, hardware costs and flexibility.

  15. Re: "....appoint a non-financial manager..." by pla · · Score: 2

    Wrong kind of "financial manager".

    TFA doesn't mean that as some sort of investment advisor, but rather, a manager over an accounting department (or a subspecialty thereof, for a large enough company).

    In fairness, though, I do agree that makes a bad example, because in accounting, you have the skill levels across the corporate food-chain almost entirely inverted from IT - Companies tend to hire unskilled minimum wage people for the "boots on the ground" accounting functions, and trust a handful of people in the upper tiers of the department to make sure the work meets the various applicable regulatory requirements. No sane company would ever hire a generic MBA as their treasurer, even though in theory that job doesn't need to "do" anything but delegate to team leads.

    In IT, by contrast, you simply don't have any unskilled doers (aside from the deadweights like the owner's nephew that everyone goes out of their way to give shiny but harmless projects to); yet two or three levels up the ladder, you have people who don't know a browser from a file manager (damn you, Microsoft, for putting the word "Explorer" in both their names!).

    And that, I think, leads to the real reason we have a problem here - In most aspects of a modern business, the structure matches the accounting department - Peons in the field, and actual accountants near the top. Businesses really don't have any traditional frame of reference for how to manage some of the most highly skilled people in the company as bottom-tier employees. Sure, they understand that they need to throw money at us, but aside from that, most companies still try to treat IT as the equivalent of cashiers or delivery drivers or AP entry clerks. Even in the other "skilled" trades, people usually progress up the food chain based on experience. The grunts haul pipe / pull wire / etc, the apprentices get the easy-but-unpleasant tasks, the journeymen get to do most of the actual work, and the masters plan out how to make the project as a whole successful. You just don't have any useful positions below the "journeymen" skill level in an IT department (aside from interns, but most companies treat them as little more than either welfare cases or slave labor, they certainly don't plan to put anything an intern does into production).

  16. Knowing the job is a requirement in tech mgmt. by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2

    It's too bad this reply is going to get buried, but this hits pretty close to home. I work for a medium size multinational in an engineering/architecture capacity. Everyone within our division works very well together, and the problems only happen when things move outside that boundary. Especially at the first level of management, where you interface with individual contributors, knowing the job is essential. I've been on both sides of the fence as both a manager of a few junior engineers and the lead architect for our team. I've also had experience with horrible managers that have had no clue what happens on a daily basis, yet they have the MBAs and the power to make multimillion dollar decisions.

    If your boss doesn't know at least in broad strokes what you do, you're bound to have a bad experience. When your boss has done your job in the past or is doing a share of the team's work, they will be able to talk intelligently with both their reports and their managers, and be the "group champion" that is needed at the first layer of management. Bosses who don't know anything about the work are the ones that agree to unrealistic deadlines or dumb design decisions, and whip their subordinates to get what they want done.

    Nontechnical bosses drive technical people nuts. Remember I said everyone in our division works fine together? The next layer up from that in our company might as well be political appointees for all they know about the actual work performed. Unfortunately for everyone below, this is the level where key decisions are made, like offshoring vs. in-house development, hiring permatemps vs. FTEs, etc. Stuff that looks good in MBA-land and on spreadsheets, but doesn't work out in the real world. This is why the management consulting firms target the upper-middle management layer -- none of them have a clue about anything and need consultants to back decisions that they should have just asked their lower-level managers about.