Snowden Joins Twitter, Follows NSA

wiredmikey writes: Edward Snowden joined Twitter Tuesday, picking up more than a quarter of a million followers on the social network in just over two hours. Snowden followed a single Twitter account: the U.S. National Security Agency, from which he stole electronic documents revealing the agency's secret surveillance programs. "Can you hear me now?" he asked in his first tweet, which was quickly resent by Twitter users tens of thousands of times. In his second, Snowden noted the recent news about the planet Mars and then quipped about the difficulty he had finding asylum after the U.S. government fingered him as the source of the NSA leaks. "And now we have water on Mars!" he wrote. "Do you think they check passports at the border? Asking for a friend."

Comments

He better hope they don't catch him

[Anonymous Coward]

The torture will be nonstop.

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[mi]

Neah, he is safe in Russia. You know, the nice free country, were renegade government employees are never tortured — merely given tea with radioactive poison in it.

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[Grishnakh]

Not a problem for him. He's not an employee or agent of the Russian government, or doing anything that annoys them. In fact, having him there basically lets Putin thumb his nose at the US, so he's welcome there.

Russia's basically one of those places where you're probably fairly safe, as long as you don't get on the wrong side of anyone who's too powerful.

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[mi]

He's not an employee or agent of the Russian government, or doing anything that annoys them. In fact, having him there basically lets Putin thumb his nose at the US, so he's welcome there.

Of course, he is welcome there — as long as he cooperates with the nose-thumbing and, as you put it, does not annoy Putin (such as, for example, by saying something supportive of Ukraine).

you're probably fairly safe, as long as you don't get on the wrong side of anyone who's too powerful.

That non-committal statement is true about any country, including even North Korea.

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[Anonymous Coward]

He is as good as on Mars. Liking the borscht comrade?

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[DarkOx]

I don't understand this argument. It sounds a lot like the bullshit that flows from the mouths of John Kerry about it. No matter what Russia does or does not do to its people, that in no way makes the NSA's behavior lessor or more virtuous. We have a Constitution, we have a body of Legal precedent that establishes protections and we have a common largely shared understanding among the public of what those protections mean and are; the NSA just ignores them and does what it wants anyway.

We are loosing our government by and FOR the people in drips and drabs and the NSA's behavior is a drop in that bucket. Snowden could have done nothing, he could have done his 'job' and added to the problem, or he could do what he did even though it amounts to trying to empty the bucket with a tea spoon. He chose to start bailing at great personal cost to himself. I can only wish I had the balls to do that.

Snowden will very likely never by able to go home again. He will never be truly free again, comfortable maybe but greatly constrained in what he can say and do. He needs the protection of Putin who is purely mercenary. Snowden will always be more constrained than he would have been had he done nothing to shelter us from the infringements that were silently taking place against our liberties.

AND THAT ISN"T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU! No he hast to be martyr as well for some reason. He does not have a lot of choices, there are not many places or people he can go to with the ability to protect him, let alone the desire or will. Putin is the best of bad choices probably. Will I be disappointed if Snowden starts telling us what a standup guy Vladimir is and how Russia is a shining example of freedom and democracy; yes I would. I will however accept his silence on the matter, as hypercritical. He needs a place to stay, you don't insult the master of the manor when you are guest. Russia's problems are not Snowden's fight, that is fight for the citizens of Russia. Snowden fought for freedom in his country, my country, likely your country. I think 'we' owe him gratitude!

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[mi]

No matter what Russia does or does not do to its people, that in no way makes the NSA's behavior lessor or more virtuous.

Snowden traded the US for Russia. This is what made comparisons between the two countries and the practices of their intelligence agencies valid and on-topic.

We are loosing our government by and FOR the people in drips and drabs and the NSA's behavior is a drop in that bucket.

No. As I argue in the neighbouring thread, the primary danger to our freedoms is the increasingly common belief, that it is acceptable — and even noble — to vote other people's monies to the "less fortunate" including, as so often happens, the voter himself.

It is this belief, that not only robs the productive members of society of what's rightfully theirs, but also attracts the worst kind of people into government to both perform the robbery and to divide the spoils. And it will be these assholes, who will one day misuse NSA's awesome powers to entrench their control and suppress opposition the way they already use the IRS to the same end.

Re: He better hope they don't catch him

[cyber-vandal]

I vote that you move to somewhere where your money won't be taken from you by the government.

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[interval1066]

Snowden traded the US for Russia.

You make it sound like Snowden traded in his used car. NO; he landed in Russia after being denied asylum in Hong Kong. And his asylum there is supposedly temporary, although I'm sure it tickles Putin no end to have him there. As for money in our political system, I certainly agree with you, I'm kind of warming up to this notion of publicly funding campaigns to keep special interests at bay (somewhat), but Snowden's alarums are certainly valid, earnest, and shocking, imo.

Re: He better hope they don't catch him

[DaveRexel]

So tell me about this mythical country that has abolished taxation.

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[jason.sweet]

He is as good as on Mars

Until it is determined the RSL are formed by flowing vodka, I think Mr Snowden is a little better off.

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[guestapoo]

Firstly, this is kind of strawman, base on non-verifiable argument (likely he is a tool of Kremlin or not, he works for Russia Gov. or not), attempts to redirect the story.

Secondly, Russia is NOT his choice, moreover not Putin's evil plan to adopt him. (Julian Assange confirmed it's his plan, that he thought Russia is the safest place for Snowden).
Assange was right, proof:
http://www.wired.com/2014/08/e...

The story, by Greg Miller, recounts daily meetings with senior officials from the FBI, CIA, and State Department, all desperately trying to come up with ways to capture Snowden. One official told Miller: “We were hoping he was going to be stupid enough to get on some kind of airplane, and then have an ally say: ‘You’re in our airspace. Land.’ ” He wasn’t. And since he disappeared into Russia, the US seems to have lost all trace of him.

Thirdly, because of outside CIS reader can't read Russian, the MSM can spin story likely: 'suspected Russian submarine' crashed Irish fishing boat in May and silently revealed in September it is really the Royal Navy one (of course without apology).

How to write a propaganda piece on Russia (RT)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Fourthly, yes Russians are not smart enough to use 'creative propaganda' (misleading headline, hit-n-run stories, redirected tactics, buried 'harmful' article under tons of entertainment stories...), but compare to Ukraine:
TheMoscowTimes, Novaya Gazeta (have English version) are explicitly against government, their articles are mostly in this direction, there is no 'positive' news. There Echo, NEWS.ru ... I can't confirm when I don't read Russian.

Compare to Ukraine, the Kiyvtimes, was actively against Yanukovich, now actively support the government (surprised!?). The opposition journalists, politicians of Ukraine were kills (about 6-7 of them) in bloody week not long after the death of Nemtsov.
The western medias not interested in this story, if they reported, they did not forget to add the story of Nemtsov beside these.
http://www.theguardian.com/wor...

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/...
http://www.rt.com/news/250245-...

or beaten, force head of National TV to resign. (RT had some transcript):
http://www.rt.com/news/ukraine...
The MP in the video, Igor Miroshnichenko, is a member of the new parliamentary committee on freedom of speech.
http://www.theguardian.com/wor...

Klitschko said that the prosecutor general, who is also from Svoboda, should launch an open and transparent investigation into the incident

Igor Miroshnichenko is still strong and healthy. (searching for Ukraine rada fighting in Youtube)

Recently, Ukraine ban 'pro-Russian' from European countries (later lifted the ban, EU journalists only), but if this is Russia, the reaction must be different:
http://www.theguardian.com/wor...

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[Grishnakh]

I'm not so sure about NK. You can really only stay there as a tourist, and that's for a limited duration. At least with Russia, as Snowden has shown, it's completely possible to go over there and obtain gainful employment if you have decent skills.

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you fucks keep repeating this tired and debunked talking point? Snowden never chose Russia as his destination. The United States revoked his passport while he was in transit, thus stranding him there.

Maybe you should ask why the United States blundered so terribly to allow Snowden to become a chess piece for Putin that allows him to so brazenly thumb his nose at the US. But you won't ask this, and nobody else who repeats these talking points ever asks this, because it correctly assigns blame where it belongs: the US officials who stranded him there.

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[Anonymous Coward]

Russia's basically one of those places where you're probably fairly safe, as long as you don't get on the wrong side of anyone who's too powerful.

Gee, that sounds... just like good old US of A! Too bad Snowden got on the wrong side of someone too powerful there and had to leave.

Re: He better hope they don't catch him

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a beautiful country where the government is not able to stop the enterprising population from pursing happiness by becoming a pirate, having adventures and uncovering booty at the sea. All you need is a ship, lots of guns and men with little to no morals - all of which are very easy to find in this real libertarian paradise. The best of all: when you make it big (and you will) the government will take not one gold bullion from you. You get to keep all the fruits of your work, minus the Do Not Cut My Throat While I'm Asleep fee for the local warlord, which is a very good service and so cheap that the warlord is almost cutting his own throat by offering it.

Re: He better hope they don't catch him

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually he's spoken rather critical of Putin.

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[Anonymous Coward]

Neah, he is safe in Russia. You know, the nice free country, were renegade government employees are never tortured

Yes, it is no secret how horrible Russia is, and I doubt it was Snowdens first choice.
But the reason he had to go to Russia was that if he stayed in any country that cooperates with the US without doing it by the book (Like happened with Ahmed Agiza and Muhammad Alzery in the case of Sweden or Kim Dotcom for New Zealand.) then he would be tortured anyway.
It's better to go to a place where you risk being killed or tortured than one where it is guaranteed.

The thing that intelligence agencies all over the world seem to not understand is that I don't care who's in command of my country if their methods are the same.
You can't scare me with the evil commies if the things you do to protect me are just as bad.
So no, the US government can't claim any moral high ground over Russia anymore. Perhaps they could in the 80's, but that was a long time ago.

If you want to be the good guy you don't get to do the things that the bad guy does and the argument "Look, Russia is just as bad!" doesn't fly.
Come back when the counterargument is closer to "Look, Canada is just as bad!"

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[DarkOx]

Snowden traded the US for Russia. This is what made comparisons between the two countries and the practices of their intelligence agencies valid and on-topic.

How exactly did he do that? Is a Russian citizen now? Is he advocating or espousing the Russian political system? I don't see how the fact that he is sleeping there indicates he 'traded' anything.

the primary danger to our freedoms is the increasingly common belief, that it is acceptable â" and even noble â" to vote other people's monies to the "less fortunate" including, as so often happens, the voter himself.

Whoa! You complain about my objection to the idea that Russia has anything to do with the NSA and the legality and morality of its action, but you want to bring in a discussion of personal property as it relates to liberties and suggest that is on topic?

I would readily agree with that strong protections of personal property, including the freedom from most forms of taxation are a cornerstone of liberty. I don't see what that has to do with anything here, unless you don't believe our other Constitutional protections are also important to liberty. I see the 4th amendment right to be secure in my effects as closely related the personal property cornerstone. While it might be more important the government can't take my things or money its also import they can't rifle through them at will either; at least it is to me. You seem to suggest the NSA's data will one day be used to confiscate wealth. Its already happening they tip off the DEA and FBI regularly. So there is my point if you don't let the government see your stuff they don't know where there is to try and take from you. So thank you Snowden for bringing to light the domestic spying!

Maybe the NSA's domestic spying isn't the 'greatest' threat to liberty but it clearly is a A threat. I for one think we should resist all threats to personal freedoms not just the biggest ones. Walk and chew bubble gum man.

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[mi]

Is a Russian citizen now?

He lives in Russia now and remains very useful to Putin.

you want to bring in a discussion of personal property as it relates to liberties and suggest that is on topic

Because I estimate the correlation between people voting for "wealth-spreading" and those mongering the fear of the NSA as above 90%. All of them are either self-inconsistent fools or two-faced scumbags.

You seem to suggest the NSA's data will one day be used to confiscate wealth.

No, I'm saying, the IRS is already doing that. NSA's worst offence so far was providing other agencies (local and Federal) with information about real crimes — and freedom-loving Americans are outraged over those other police then lying to conceal the spies' involvement. Some day such lying may evolve and lead to innocent people being framed. But it is yet to happen — so far there aren't even any allegations of anybody being framed with NSA's involvement.

But the IRS is already open and brazen about confiscating your monies on mere suspicion and target opposition-supporters for audits and other prosecution.

So there is my point if you don't let the government see your stuff they don't know where there is to try and take from you. So thank you Snowden for bringing to light the domestic spying!

Had Snowden escaped from the IRS, you would've had a point.

Maybe the NSA's domestic spying isn't the 'greatest' threat to liberty but it clearly is a A threat. I for one think we should resist all threats to personal freedoms not just the biggest ones.

Well, if your house were on fire, would you concentrate on putting it out, or will you also continue thinking of the danger of an air-plane falling on it some day? The focus ought to be on the clear-and-present threats, not the hypothetical ones from the future. Moreover, significantly reducing the taxation will also reduce the threat of NSA — by lowering the amounts of money at the government's disposal, you make it less attractive for assholes, who would abuse NSA (or any other agency) to remain in power the way they already use the IRS.

Re:He better hope they don't catch him

[Nehmo]

Why do you fucks keep repeating this tired and debunked talking point? Snowden never chose Russia as his destination. The United States revoked his passport while he was in transit, thus stranding him there.

Maybe you should ask why the United States blundered so terribly to allow Snowden to become a chess piece for Putin that allows him to so brazenly thumb his nose at the US. But you won't ask this, and nobody else who repeats these talking points ever asks this, because it correctly assigns blame where it belongs: the US officials who stranded him there.

I'm replying to your post just to quote and repeat it. The reason Edward Snowden is in Russia is because the US inadvertently stranded him there. (And as Russia points out, the situation is not of their making.) It turned out to be very fortunate for Snowden, though. Russia is one of the few countries that can harbor him safely. For the good of America, it's a good thing we have Russia.

Re: He better hope they don't catch him

[Anonymous Coward]

Mythical? There are plenty of tax havens in the world. The wealthy in the US have literally trillions of dollars of taxable dollars hidden there. You are just as free to move to one if them as a destitute child is to get bread without money in a totally free market. Either both are 'force' or neither is, and I say that as a contributor to the Libertarian Party

Putin's tool

[mi]

Snowden followed a single Twitter account: the U.S. National Security Agency

Khm, I wonder, why he is not following Kremlin's accounts. Just to, you know, hold Putin accountable...

Re:Putin's tool

[Pseudonymous Powers]

Snowden followed a single Twitter account: the U.S. National Security Agency

Khm, I wonder, why he is not following Kremlin's accounts. Just to, you know, hold Putin accountable...

Just because Russia is worse doesn't mean America isn't bad. If you really want to speak out against the abuses of the Medici, you're going to need the protection of the Borgias first. Hypocritical? Sure. But I'm afraid that's just how Renaissance Italy works.

Re:Putin's tool

[Camel Pilot]

If Snwoden believes he was "holding Putin accountable" that demonstrates some major league naivety

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

> Khm, I wonder, why he is not following Kremlin's accounts.

He gave up his cushy life in paradise - literally paradise - for the freedom of his country and the world. Now you expect him to risk his only refuge to tell us all what we already know? What have you done for the world, chickenhawk?

Re:Putin's tool

[mi]

If you really want to speak out against the abuses of the Medici, you're going to need the protection of the Borgias first

The far more apt comparison would be of Beria (responsible for millions dead) vs. McCarthy (responsible for dozens laid off). Quantity transcending into quality and all that...

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

What a load of sophistry. Chickenhawk.

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't hold everyone accountable, you need some other place to hide. Let someone else hold Putin accountable and grant him asylum in the USA. That is how politics work.

Re:Putin's tool

[mi]

If Snowden believes he was "holding Putin accountable" that demonstrates some major league naivety

Oh, he may have wisen up by now. But that's what happens when young people — even the brighter among them — are raised by the teachers, who seriously equate Beria with McCarthy and Castro with Pinochet. And by now it is increasingly harder to blame even those teachers — when their own professors are "former" terrorists themselves.

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you very much, Chickenhawk, for this well-considered rebuttal, that so convincingly addresses each point raised above. Shall bookmark and read again...

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Mido is just doing the mental equivalent of masturbating in public and the only proper response to that is "eeew!"

Re:Putin's tool

[Flavianoep]

The right equation is Beria:McCarthy::Castro:Pinochet.

Re:Putin's tool

[s.petry]

The NSA is a tool which can, and has been, used for bad as well as good. They have too much power and too little public accountability. A rifle is similarly a tool. In the right hands it can put food on the table and defend a family. In the wrong hands it can murder and maim innocent people. Here are a few highlights that we know happen, and we have no evidence that anything has changed since the Snowden leaks.

NSA data used in parallel construction allowing fabrication of data to arrest people. Data shared with all levels of law enforcement including state, city, county.

NSA data used to squash dissent and opinions. You know better than cops always being in force exactly where needed to disperse people well before a gathering.

NSA data used to mark US citizens as dangerous because they support the wrong party or organization. See Ron Paul followers in numerous States, and more recently the IRS targeting of certain groups. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Now from what we know, there is plenty we can logically speculate. Think bigger, because the people in power do.

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

The far more apt comparison would be of Beria (responsible for millions dead) vs. McCarthy (responsible for dozens laid off). Quantity transcending into quality and all that...

Good point, Putin just kills individuals. The U.S. government destroys whole countries.

Re:Putin's tool

[mi]

The U.S. government destroys whole countries.

Like Japan and Germany? Or Ukraine? Or Afhganistan? Or Czechoslovakia?

Re:Putin's tool

[SirSlud]

McCarthy didn't get people laid off. He ruined entire careers.

Re:Putin's tool

[oh_my_080980980]

Apparently you are not familiar with the work of the CIA...children...

Re:Putin's tool

[DarkOx]

Putin is a far worse threat to the world peace, than Obama or Bush before him.

Putin is no peace neck for sure, he isn't a good guy by any stretch and probably isn't doing what is in the best interest of the nation he leads but to suggest he is a bigger threat to world peace than Obama is silly.

Putin's invasions of foreign nations have all been of neighboring or nearly so territories with for the most part pretty clear economic or militarily strategic reason for Russian interest. Georgia being his most naked land grab.

The other instances like Ukraine happened after potentially hostile western entities (like us) started meddling in affairs there. Was the government of Ukraine a good one, no, but we had no business backing the revolutionaries and we had no business supporting the ouster of the sitting president for which there was no legal process of impeachment. We helped depose a lawfully elected leader who was friendly to Putin and replace him with an unlawfully elected leader who favored the EU.

While Bush and Obama invade nations that never really posed any threat to us. Libya was helping us with the 'war on terror' Obama turned a more or less orderly if less than 'free' nation into another hell hole for no reason at all. We fucked Pakistan up more than it already was shortly before that. Bush while at least going about it legally with an congressional authorization went looking for any excuse to stir up IRAQ and went in on thin evidence....

How do think Obama would react if Russia backed a coup in Mexico and replaced the government with one openly hostile to the US? Do you think we would just sit by and allow that?

I am not saying I like Putin's behavior but I am saying its quite understandable, and seems entirely rational to me. He isn't crazy, and I don't think he is exactly the provocateur in many cases either. He certainly is taking advantage of certain situations perhaps in way that exceeds a balanced response but these are doors opened for him by Obama behavior and policy more so than anyone else. Syria is the same call would we allow Russia to undermine our foot hold in the Middle East by deposing governments friendly to us. What if the Russian's tried to bring down the Saudi Royal family? You think we would just do nothing? I doubt it. Why do expect the Russians to not try and prop up Assad? Oh and spare me the but Assad uses barrel bombs on his own people, the Saudi's to plenty of terrible things to their citizens too, and we look the other way.

What exactly do think the effect of all the aide to the Arab spring rebels is, the humanitarian aide to Syria, or the Palestinians, the cease fire negotiations is exactly? I'll tell you it keeps these conflicts alive when hunger and disease would have decisively ended them decades ago without all our interventions. Why because the Military Industrial Complex profits from endless waring. Putin is bad guy and Russia has a bad foreign policy too if you want to see peace, but it is post cold war American foreign policy that is responsible for the state the world is in today for the most part. Some administrations have been worse than others. Certainly Obama is among the more dangerous, GWB and Clinton not far behind him, GHB and Regan a little better the last three but not by much either.

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Your English is immaculate comrade...

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

McCarthy didn't get people laid off. He ruined entire lives.

FTFY

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, a rifle is a tool, a potentially dangerous tool. That is why the Constitution guarantees that the People may also have rifles - so that there is some level of equivalence between them and the government.

The NSA has no free-citizen equivalent to keep it in check. Snowden attempted that role and see the response.

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

> Putin is no peace neck for sure, he isn't a good guy by any stretch

What's a peace neck?

That kind of malapropism kinda gives credence to that guy accusing you being part of putin's propaganda army.

Re:Putin's tool

[AK Marc]

Korea, Vietnam. Korea and Vietnam split because the US invaded the South and interrupted democratic elections. The US invaded sovereign countries who didn't want help, and prevented democracy. Multiple times. That should meet your definition.

Re:Putin's tool

[rwa2]

Yes, mi is a strange fruit indeed, but he does seem more intelligent than the average conservative (or whatever he is) so it's a bit more fun to argue with him.

The US has a long history of backing guerrillas to topple dictators, just to install new dictators that they can eventually defame and then repeat the entire cycle again. ISIS is really doing America's work with American weapons. http://stormcloudsgathering.co...

It's much easier to digest the depressing headlines about ISIS atrocities when you admit that everything is going exactly to plan... they're there to kick up a lot of dirt in the desert and wreak havoc there to keep the brown people down. And it's working, we enjoy a much better quality of life here than in the rest of the world, so we can take some comfort in that.

You could argue that just about everything the US has accomplished lately has been to counter whatever Russia was doing. The US / UK entered WWII when they did not to save Europe from Hitler, but from Stalin. The Space Race. "In God We Trust" printed on monies starting in 1956 to distance ourselves from the atheist commies.

But I guess whatever proxy conflicts we have now beats the socks out of whatever the world would be like if the US and USSR actually cooperated to rule the world.

Re:Putin's tool

[s.petry]

Here is the problem:

I agree, that they are dangerous, but I'm not aware of anybody actually suffering because of them without deserving it.

If the Justice system is being bypassed, how can you claim that someone deserved suffering exactly? You don't see the Justice system being bypassed as infringing on Liberty? In your mind this is somehow not violating the US Constitution?

The rest of your comments I will summarize as this. The fact that you believe every turd painted gold has great value is rather frightening. To be very specific here is another great quote from you.

"parallel construction" helps police lie about how they knew of the accused's wrong-doing, but the target must be engaged in some criminality in the first place.

So you know damn well they are liars. You know that they are telling the truth about their lies how exactly?

Sorry, but I live in a very different reality than you. Where I am from, a liar is a liar and not a half-truth-teller or however you wish to paint it.

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

> Yes, mi is a strange fruit indeed, but he does seem more intelligent than the average conservative (or whatever he is) so it's a bit more fun to argue with him.

He's more informed, but no more cogent or logical. Arguing with a cherry-picked encyclopedia gets old quick.

Re:Putin's tool

[interval1066]

Korea and Vietnam split because the US invaded the South and interrupted democratic elections.

Can't argue about Korea, that's not quite accurate with regard to Vietnam. The US went due to a stupid agreement with France, hod nothing to do with interrupting elections, the elections were rigged by the US anyway. Ngo Dình Diem was a US puppet, and his election a foregone conclusion. Vietnam was the last gasp of France's imperial past; the US had ridiculous nightmares about communists taking over the world. To the Vietnamese, it was just a civil war.

Re:Putin's tool

[mi]

Putin's invasions of foreign nations have all been of neighboring or nearly so territories

So, Putin is allowed to meddle in Ukraine (the ousted President, for example, would never have gotten elected in the first place, where it not for Russian support both overt and covert) because his fiefdom happens to be geographically close to it? Nice. Should I ask about Syria — which is two seas apart from Russia — now, or would that be impolite?

we had no business backing the revolutionaries

Oh yeah? What happened to “Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.”? We defend Taiwan from China, South Korea from the North. Israel — from its mad neighbors. We kept USSR at bay throughout the Cold War — why is Ukraine less worthy of American help today than France or Germany was in 1970-ies?

How do think Obama would react if Russia backed a coup in Mexico and replaced the government with one openly hostile to the US?

Ukraine's new government was not "openly hostile" to Russia — what made them so was the invasion into Crimea. To answer your question, given Obama's actions towards Cuba, he'd welcome a Lefist coup in Mexico and apologize for America's past misdeeds (such as resisting Santa Anna and Pancho Villa).

I am not saying I like Putin's behavior but I am saying its quite understandable

"To understand is to forgive" — you, obviously do like Putin's behavior better, than you like that of American governments.

There is one stark and undeniable difference remaining, though — when the US invades, it is never to steal land — our last acquisition was Hawaii. We had multiple opportunities since (such as Philippines, but didn't use them). Putin's invasion into Crimea — ostensibly to "defend Russian-speakers" against the imaginary threat of the imaginary "nazist junta" — was nothing but a land-grab.

And yet, you and other like you — Snowden included — prefer Russia to the US...

post cold war American foreign policy that is responsible for the state the world is in today for the most part

Our responsibility derives simply from our victory. Russia's share of responsibility, which you seek to diminish, derives from the evils of the USSR (such as fostering and bolstering the "house of Assad" for a more relevant example). I'll take the US — warts and all — any day of the week. You are welcome to join Snowden in Russia (or in Hell).

Re:Putin's tool

[techno-vampire]

the US had ridiculous nightmares about communists taking over the world.

To be fair, the Soviets were threatening to do exactly that. Later, of course, we learned just how empty those threats were.

Re:Putin's tool

[interval1066]

Well, the Cuban Missile Crisis didn't help; the US & USSR came *this close* to nuclear war. Historians have been calling that a *blink* ever since. Difficult to compare to an empty threat.

Re:Putin's tool

[AK Marc]

Eisenhower sent in troops to block an election that was happening. The US panicked over an election that could see Ho Chi Minh elected. The US invaded without request from France or the Vietnamese. Then brainwashed the political leaders against Ho Chi Minh and declared that their invasion was because of the French and we were invited, and it had nothing to do with the democratic election we blocked or the war we started. The invasion was Eisenhower, and Eisenhower alone (not the French), and his "don't give in to the Military Industrial Complex" wasn't a warning, it was a confession, and perhaps, an apology.

Re:Putin's tool

[guestapoo]

The US went due to a stupid agreement with France ... the US had ridiculous nightmares about communists taking over the world.

I've read the stories of one of member of Deer Team of OSS sent to help Viet Minh, under Ho Chi Minh.
Why Vietnam?: Prelude to America's Albatross by Archimedes L.A. Patti

That said, he, Ho Chi Minh, love U.S.A (he was here, when he was finding 'way to liberate the country', he may like the 'freedom' breath he felt there). He considered U.S.A was the symbol of country against colonialism. He must be good friend with U.S.A.

But, U.S.A don't want 'good friend', they need some one they can control, like Dr. Hämsterviel in Lilo and Stich:

Your minions shouldn't like you. They only need to fear you!

No, it's not 'stupid', or 'ridiculous' decision, it's careful planned: to control the resources:
http://users.humboldt.edu/ogay...

Communist control of Southeast Asia would give Americans control over "strategically important commodities" like natural rubber, tin, coal, iron ore, and oil.
Communist control over Vietnam's rich rice fields and Japan's dependence upon rice would make it extremely difficult to prevent Japan's eventual capitulation to Communism.

Communism was just the bogeyman at that time. Just like 'terrorism', 'dictators' today.
But, what if Ho Chi Minh was puppet of U.S.A, the history must be different. He should be king of Saudi Arabia, instead of Assad/Syria, or Iran.

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

I just spend over an hour reading and mentally digesting that article. At first I thought I should be surprised, but honestly, it doesn't really surprise me at all. And that's sad. Very very interesting read.

Re:Putin's tool

[l0n3s0m3phr34k]

The main reason for Putin;s invasion of Crimea is Sevastopol. Over the years, Russia / USSR has poured billions into this town, and it is a strategic naval base. From a military standpoint, Putin would have been stupid to just let it go.

Re:Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

And if Snowden and the Guardian released proof of that, it would be a big deal and expose the government of misusing the technology. However, I'm not aware of the documents that proved that and the Congress prosecuting anyone or any agency.

Just collecting metadata wasn't illegal. The courts might have ruled on it now, but at the time it wasn't. If he could prove that the IRS or FBI tipped off local law enforcement, that would be a scandal. If the government had databases and relationships of US citizen peaceful organizations (NRA/Greenpeace/anti-abortion whatever), that would be news. I tend to think it didn't, but I would be open to seeing the proof.

Re:Putin's tool

[jcr]

McCarthy didn't kill anyone. Beria sent his enemies to death camps.

-jcr

Re:Putin's tool

[mi]

From a military standpoint, Putin would have been stupid to just let it go.

I dunno, Britain has given up Hong Kong in accordance to an ancient agreement with China and that was that. No scandal, no war — honest dealing.

But thank you for — despite trying to excuse Putin's armed invasion and annexation — not trying to bring up "Ukrainian nazis" or "Kiev's junta" or "referendum" or some such crap...

Re:Putin's tool

[Rujiel]

Doesn't being a paid shill grow boring, mi?

Re:Putin's tool

[Max_W]

The far more apt comparison would be of Beria (responsible for millions dead) vs. McCarthy (responsible for dozens laid off). Quantity transcending into quality and all that...

The population of GULAG was never above two million: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... , while US prisons right now contain more than two million inmates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

I am not defending GULAG, it was certainly terrible. I just wanted to point that the scale, a quantity, was not that exceptional.

Re:Putin's tool

[DarkOx]

Oh yeah? What happened to âoeLet every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.â? We defend Taiwan from China, South Korea from the North. Israel â" from its mad neighbors. We kept USSR at bay throughout the Cold War â" why is Ukraine less worthy of American help today than France or Germany was in 1970-ies?

Team America World Police is a stupid policy that is bankrupting our nation and endangering our citizens. We a large scale global threat emerges with the potential to harm us, yes we should deal with it. Otherwise we should stay in relative safety between two great oceans and let the rest of the world solve its own problems.

To understand is to forgive" â" you, obviously do like Putin's behavior better, than you like that of American governments.

Sure the same way I forgive gravity for causing things to fall down. I am simply stating what a large number of people familiar with US Russian politics will echo. Putin actions are predictable responses to our own. Either the surprise and astonishment that comes from the administration is feigned for political effect or they are dangerously naive and inept.

There is one stark and undeniable difference remaining, though â" when the US invades, it is never to steal land â" our last acquisition was Hawaii. We had multiple opportunities since (such as Philippines, but didn't use them). Putin's invasion into Crimea â" ostensibly to "defend Russian-speakers" against the imaginary threat of the imaginary "nazist junta" â" was nothing but a land-grab.

Right because we know total control and administration of a territory is difficult and expensive work. Just ask Paul Bremer about Iraq. With some exceptions our policy could be summed up as "That's a nice country you have there it would be shame if something happened to it." I don't see the great justice. We install a leadership that is either unpopular with its own people or incapable of survival given its neighbors without our continued support, we then make sure they 'play ball' with the threat of leaving them to twist if they don't. We do leave them to twist when they don't, ask Hamid Karzai or Nouri al-Maliki. This is a nice way of not stealing anything, but the results are not so different.

I really am not defending Russia, or Putin. I don't like him. He is a global menace. I am saying "People in glass houses should not throw stones." Geopolitical events are complicated and you can always make excuses and justifications about how you have some kind of moral authority. In the end though you are either melding in the affairs of others or you are not; you killing and maiming people who don't threaten you or you are not. I think ultimately it really is that simple or needs to be thought about in that way. I think that because in reality its two complicated to even know what the ends are when we go melding and looking back on pretty much every post WWII conflict its damn hard to say the ends justified the means.

Re: Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget all of the School of the Americas graduates that took over south American countries whenever they didn't like the results of elections. Plus Greece, since hey they had to have at least one propped up dictator on every other inhabited continent apparently.

Re:Putin's tool

[david_thornley]

Putin actions are predictable responses to our own.

I don't trust that sort of reasoning. There's a lot of argument about free will vs. determinism, and moral responsibilities, but in a discussion I like to keep the same position in that argument. This sentence sounds an awful lot like saying that the US has free will and moral responsibilities, but Putin is acting deterministically, and presumably amorally.

I got that sensitivity from arguments about the origins of WWII, which blamed WWII on Allied actions at the end of WWI, without considering that those Allied actions were in a context also. You can make the argument that Hitler's reactions to the Versailles treaty were wrong, or you can make the argument that the Versailles treaty was a result of treaties like the one ending the Franco-Prussian War, or the Brest-Litovsk treaty between Germany and the nascent Soviet Union.

Either the surprise and astonishment that comes from the administration is feigned for political effect or they are dangerously naive and inept.

Of COURSE governmental surprise and astonishment are almost always feigned for political effect. In international politics, official pronouncements are carefully prepared concerning what they say and imply, and they often don't adhere strictly to the truth.

Re: Putin's tool

[Anonymous Coward]

So if the US looks the other way it is its fault (Saudi Arabia), if it helps peaceful demonstrators it is its fault (Ukraine), if it lightly intervenes in a civil war it is its fault (Libya), if it doesn't intervene for a couple years it is its fault (early Syria, Bosnia), if it intervenes in a civil war it is its fault (later Syria, Bosnia), if it does nothing it is its fault (Rwanda) fault, if it sanctions a country it is cruelly holding it back economically and if it trades with a country it is cruelly exploiting it economically.
Well, that's a typically sophomoric worldview that the entire planet is composed of automatons and whatever the US decides determines the outcome. The US has about .1% influence on what is going on in Syria. Not a lot more in most other situations. But all around the world, a large variety of assholes blame their country's problems on the US, instead of looking in the mirror.

Russian monitors

[jfdavis668]

This will make it easier for his Russian monitors to keep an eye on him.

Re:Russian monitors

[arth1]

Nah.

In Soviet Russia, you follow the NSA!

At least he still has a sense of humor

[NotDrWho]

I would probably be sad if I knew that I would never again be able to return home or travel because I had exposed the illegal practices of my government.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[CannonballHead]

Many very, very sad people can have senses of humor. I'm not saying Snowden is depressed or whatever, but ... I have read/heard about the apparent significant rates of depression when it comes to comedians. Funny != happy. I'm not depressed, either, but I know I can be quite funny even if I'm hurting. Partially, it's a way to hide the hurt/pain from others.

(again, I have *no* idea about Snowden. Just commenting on the idea of being sad being mutually exclusive with being humorous. :) )

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Spy Handler]

I would probably be sad if I knew that I would never again be able to return home or travel because I had exposed the illegal practices of my government.

Obama won't be in office much longer. President Trump or President Sanders might well give him some kind of a deal or even an outright pardon.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[bluefoxlucid]

If we get Trump or Sanders, it won't matter; America won't exist for much longer, although that's almost a given in almost every case. The path of escape is currently very, very narrow.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[fnj]

Of course you mean illegally exposed the security practices of your government.

How do you illegally expose illegal practices, you goddam nattering anonymous tool?

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

Trump is not worse than Bush or Obama.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Camel Pilot]

Obama won't be in office much longer. President Trump or President Sanders might well give him some kind of a deal or even an outright pardon.

LOL Are you kidding? You are sadly misinformed or have a habit of assuming others share your opinion.

http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometimes breaking the law is the right thing to do. And, in many of those cases, we pardon the law-breaker.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Dins]

Think he was being snarky. Don't know, though, could go either way.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

Trump is not worse than Bush or Obama.

Only because he's not POTUS.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

Neither is Sanders.

In fact I would welcome either Trump or Sanders because both of them are outliers in their own parties. Neither of them are who their party wants to nominate. The parties want Bush and Clinton.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

For the first time in 8 years I am proud for my government for putting a warrant on Mr. Snowden.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Yunzil]

If the illegal practices are classified, then exposing them is illegal.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

This is, without a doubt, the stupidest fucking thing I've read today.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[rwa2]

At first I didn't think https://twitter.com/snowden could be the real Edward Snowden. That pose on his profile pic has got to be the douchey-est photo of him I've ever seen. And yet it comes up as a "Verified" Twitter account. How could they verify that?

For now, I'm still calling it out as a DoD / CIA / NSA InfoOps character defamation account :P

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Radish03]

Violate the DMCA to expose a car's ECU is programmed to lie?

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

So the US should never have formed their own country the way they did then?

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you illegally expose illegal practices, you goddam nattering anonymous tool?

It's surprisingly easy: Expose the practices in an illegal way - in this case, at all. He exposed national security secrets. The fact that they were illegal actions by our government does not change the fact that exposing those secret practices is textbook treason. There is no legal way to expose national security tidbits like that. You can argue that it was justified and that he is a Big Damn Hero up and down and I'll agree with you the whole way, but waiving your hands and pretending it wasn't illegal doesn't mean anything. Unless you want to show us how to legally commit treason that Snowden overlooked.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you seen his girlfriend? That guy can't be too sad.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually I believe he meant "justifiably exposed".

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[rock_climbing_guy]

This exactly. The powers that be want another establishment tool who will do their bidding. You may have seen it reported that some wealthy donors are simultaneously supporting Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton, while the media ignores Bernie Sanders and dispariages Donald Trump every chance they get. I predict that as Bush and Clinton's campaigns appear to be sagging, the big money is going to go to Joe Biden and Marco Rubio - basically, anyone but Sanders and Trump.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[rock_climbing_guy]

Let me also add: I heard someone way that the establishment can always be counted on to tell us who they are afraid of. Who do they ignore? Who do they laugh at? Who do they fight?

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

He exposed national security secrets. The fact that they were illegal actions by our government does not change the fact that exposing those secret practices is textbook treason. There is no legal way to expose national security tidbits like that.

Not really true. From Executive Order 13526, Classified National Security Information :

Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations.
(a) In no case shall information be classified, continue to be maintained as classified, or fail to be declassified in order to:
(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;
(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;
(3) restrain competition; or
(4) prevent or delay the release of information that does not require protection in the interest of the national security.

So, in fact, hiding government wrongdoing by classifying it is in itself illegal, and the material would be considered improperly classified.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[penguinoid]

Of course you mean illegally exposed the security practices of your government.

Isn't that exactly like complaining that a criminal was "illegally" investigated, because the criminal in question has a personal rule that he shouldn't be investigated?

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

The US can attribute its freedom of the Press directly to newspaper publishers defying laws against seditious libel, and juries refusing to convict those who were charged under those laws.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't that exactly like complaining that a criminal was "illegally" investigated, because the criminal in question has a personal rule that he shouldn't be investigated?

Well, in this case, the rule actually states that the government cannot protect itself from disclosure of illegal acts by classifying the information:

From Executive Order 13526, Classified National Security Information :

Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations.
(a) In no case shall information be classified, continue to be maintained as classified, or fail to be declassified in order to:
(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;
(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;
(3) restrain competition; or
(4) prevent or delay the release of information that does not require protection in the interest of the national security.

So, in fact, hiding government wrongdoing by classifying it is in itself illegal, and the material would be considered improperly classified.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

https://lessig2016.us/

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[fnj]

Not really true. From Executive Order 13526, Classified National Security Information [whitehouse.gov]:

Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations.
(a) In no case shall information be classified, continue to be maintained as classified, or fail to be declassified in order to:
(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;
(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;
(3) restrain competition; or
(4) prevent or delay the release of information that does not require protection in the interest of the national security.

Bingo. Excellent point.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[fbobraga]

+1 to this I've just listen to http://www.startalkradio.net/s...: note that the the comments there are "a priori" modarated (and not "a posteriori", like here) - I think it's a kind of censorship - and there's only audio, no video: it's really Eduard Snowden speaking?

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[fbobraga]

I forgot to mention something: in the http://www.startalkradio.net/s... "Snowden" reveals their actual location city ("Moscow") easily, whats seems very strange to me.... * sorry by the poor english

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[rwa2]

Well, it's no big secret where he is. And various people have reported recognizing him on the street there, and say he just kinda smiles and makes a "shh" gesture. I don't think he feels he's in big danger for his life, he probably still had a good set of dead man's scripts out there, even though he claims to have turned over everything he has to the media. Moscow is a fun city. Highest cost of living in the world. Much better than being holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy like Assange.

I do appreciate how the second tweet refers to something recent in the news, the same way some of the Bin Laden announcements would drop a current events reference to confirm it wasn't an old recording of some vague threat.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[david_thornley]

This doesn't mean that material is improperly classified if it reveals violations of law. It may be legitimately classified for other reasons. For example, a document on CIA operations that names names may get into details on individual operatives violating the law, but releasing it may be harmful to people who had worked with those operatives. It means that the document may not be classified, or remain classified, if the only national security impact was violations of the law.

Undoubtedly much of what Snowden released was improperly classified under those terms, but I'm not willing to say all the domestic stuff was. Snowden's revelations on foreign operations are probably legitimately classified.

As far as I can tell, Snowden committed a serious felony, and one which cannot be legally justified by the nature of the material he released. The moral aspects are considerably different, but it's still illegal. The correct way to exonerate Snowden is not to pretend that he broke no laws, but to pardon him.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometimes breaking the law is the right thing to do. And, in many of those cases, we pardon the law-breaker.

Sometimes breaking the law is the right thing to do. And, in all of those cases, the person needs to accept that they might be held accountable for that.

Re:At least he still has a sense of humor

[Anonymous Coward]

I would probably be sad if I knew that I would never again be able to return home or travel because I had exposed the illegal practices of my government.

Do you know what you have done?
How should I know, it was done in secret?
Snowden discloses my secrets
stay tuned

I'm curious

[tom229]

What is he doing in Russia? If he's still there. Admittantly I haven't been following the story that closely. But how does he have a computer or food? Does he have a job? Is he working for the Russian government? If that's the case I'd have to say he's just traded one evil for another.

Re:I'm curious

[Greyfox]

He's basically just a pawn at this point. Putin keeps him around because it embarrasses the US Government. He'll probably find himself extradited in a heartbeat if Putin can get something valuable in trade. I'm also guessing he's not exactly a prisoner, but that he would find it to be very difficult to leave Russia if he wanted to. You know, pawn stuff.

Re:I'm curious

[fnj]

He's basically just a pawn at this point. Putin keeps him around because it embarrasses the US Government. He'll probably find himself extradited in a heartbeat if Putin can get something valuable in trade. I'm also guessing he's not exactly a prisoner, but that he would find it to be very difficult to leave Russia if he wanted to. You know, pawn stuff.

Utterly unfounded crap. The actual reason he can't leave is that he would be intercepted extralegally by U.S. agents acting on behalf of an illegitimate rogue government violating its own goddam Constitution.

Re:I'm curious

[Anonymous Coward]

He was on his way to South America from Hong Kong, transiting through Moscow, when the US (who knew he was in Moscow) cancelled his passport, effectively stranding him there. He has no travel documents (his passport was cancelled) so he cannot leave.

Re:I'm curious

[Anonymous Coward]

He's basically just a pawn at this point.

And you've basically been an idiot since the sad day you were born.

Re:I'm curious

[Zontar The Mindless]

Nothing is stopping the Russian government from providing him with travel documents, if it were so inclined.

Re:I'm curious

[Anonymous Coward]

He was on his way to South America from Hong Kong, transiting through Moscow, when the US (who knew he was in Moscow) cancelled his passport, effectively stranding him there.

And he spent some number of months in the airport because he didn't even have a visa to enter Russia.

Re:I'm curious

[AK Marc]

He tried to leave Russia. He planted a hint he was on a diplomatic plane, and the US illegally intercepted it. The US doesn't follow its own rules. The US is a lawless country, worse than all the ones that it complains about.

Re:I'm curious

[AK Marc]

It's not that easy, and even if they did, the US would still illegally intercept him.

Re:I'm curious

[Anonymous Coward]

Lawless, no... worse? You'll need to support that.

Re:I'm curious

[AK Marc]

That you reject reality doesn't invalidate it.

Re:I'm curious

[amicusNYCL]

What is he doing in Russia?

Uh, well, he's living and working.

But how does he have a computer or food?

What are you confused about? You realize that people in Russia have access to computers and food, right? You understand that people who are sympathetic to Snowden have the ability to travel freely, right? On which point are you unclear?

Does he have a job?

Yes.

Is he working for the Russian government?

There's no indication that he is. He's working for a private company.

Admittantly I haven't been following the story that closely.

"Admittantly" is not a word, and it's obvious that you haven't followed anything. But you're "just asking questions", aren't you?

Re:I'm curious

[amicusNYCL]

Putin isn't "keeping him around", he's still in Russia because it's not legal for him to leave the country because the US canceled his travel documents. Don't get me wrong, Putin loses absolutely no sleep that Snowden is in Russia, but to even imagine that Snowden is serving the Russian government when his entire plight is due to the fact that he exposed unconstitutional illegal programs by the US government is laughable. Snowden is more a patriot to this country than someone with your view could ever be. He alerted the US population to illegal overreaches by the US government against the population, and you want to call him a pawn of Russia. You're an idiot. Someone would only do what he did if they believed they were serving the best interests of the US people first and foremost, not the interests of any government.

Re:I'm curious

[bledri]

Nothing is stopping the Russian government from providing him with travel documents, if it were so inclined.

You seem really confused about why he is in Russia. Russia is not detaining him, they are simply not honoring the US request to extradite Snowden for prosecution. Russia was not Snowden's destination, it's just where he was when the US cancelled his passport. So he doesn't have a passport, no other country has the will to offer him political asylum. So he's stuck. Russia is no doubt doing this simply to thumb its noise at the US. Snowden understands that and I'm absolutely sees the irony in it.

Re:I'm curious

[rastos1]

As if "U.S. agents acting on behalf of an illegitimate rogue government violating its own goddam Constitution" had no presence in Russia.

Re:I'm curious

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. Remember how we, the United States, force landed a plane that we thought Snowden was on? Hand got played.

Re:I'm curious

[fnj]

As if "U.S. agents acting on behalf of an illegitimate rogue government violating its own goddam Constitution" had no presence in Russia.

"Stop criticizing me! Billy did it too! Everybody does it!"

Sorry, that doesn't bear on the point or relieve the evil from criticism. Look, I'm an American. When I look at my country, I see it being cynically destroyed from within by the etablishment. I see not a care whatsoever given to our own interests. In fact, top down, White House first and foremost, but most definitely both political parties, they are all working to tear it apart and bankrupt it and enslave the people. They hate what it used to stand for when it was great.

When I look at Putin in Russia, I see a leader who is passionate about his homeland and people, and will not countenance various special-interest mafias tearing it apart. Do I agree with every one of his policies and decisions? Is he perfect? Hell no! But at least he does not hate his country and is not cynically working to destroy it. Most of all, he does not suck Globalist oligarchy dick.

He is also acting rationally in Syria and with respect to ISIS, something the US under Obama and the sick joke Kerry (and Clinton before him) and the cipher Ashton Carter and his predecessors have never done.

Re:I'm curious

[rastos1]

You did no understand me. I'm saying that it is invalid argument that Snowden is not leaving Russia because US agents could get him if he did. It is invalid because US agents could get him in Russia just like they could get him outside of Russia. If they really wanted.

Re:I'm curious

[david_thornley]

That's not his entire plight. In addition to releasing material that darn well should never have been classified, about things that should never have been done, he released material that, as far as I can tell, was legitimately classified, about things the NSA is supposed to do. He's a lawbreaker. If he comes back to the US and is given a fair trial, he winds up spending a lot of time behind bars, because he really did violate the law in a big way.

Personally, I want him pardoned, but that's because I believe that the laws he broke and the harm he caused are justified by the good he did.

Re:I'm curious

[tom229]

Who shit in your cheerios? Relax dude.

Re:I'm curious

[amicusNYCL]

Uninformed people who, instead of doing any amount of research on a topic for themselves to actually learn something, instead decide to jump online and "just ask questions". Those people shit in my cheerios.

Re:I'm curious

[tom229]

Comments are for discussion. I was attempting to start one. But nevermind, I know your type and this argument will never end. So let's just say you're right and you win.

Re:I'm curious

[amicusNYCL]

You're asking factual questions without doing the research, not trying to open a discussion on people's opinions. This isn't an argument, either, there's nothing to be right about or to win.

See for yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

The article doesn't mention a job, although I previously heard that he had started working for a web development company. That might be incorrect. It claims speaking fees are his primary source of income.

This is news?

[the_skywise]

Snowden got a facebook account and liked the EFF!

That's it... I'm off the planet...

I dont get it

[OverlordQ]

He was just a low/mid-level analyst who leaked a bunch of shit. Why are people treating him like any sort of authority on anything?

Re:I dont get it

[Spy Handler]

He was just a low/mid-level analyst who leaked a bunch of shit. Why are people treating him like any sort of authority on anything?

That's actually what I thought too initially, without knowing much about the situation.

But as I kept reading, I learned that he was by far the smartest programmer at NSA (at least in the branch that he was at), he was THE man according to his former NSA colleagues. He took off with everything, he got the keys to the whole kingdom using his knowledge and mad skillz. No other low/mid-level analyst (as you put it) could've pulled that off.

Re:I dont get it

[fnj]

He was just a low/mid-level analyst who leaked a bunch of shit. Why are people treating him like any sort of authority on anything?

Well, he has accomplished a helluva lot more than YOU have, and more than any of the other tools working in that den of foul unamerican repression.

Re:I dont get it

[Anonymous Coward]

if you've ever had a mid (or even low) level IT-job ... those are the guys who have the most access to systems/information, you think the directors care about the systems ? they're stuck in politics, budgets and planning, they got not time for the field work.

I'll trust the analyst over the director ANY time !

Re:I dont get it

[Krishnoid]

The existing authorities lied to us, and he's pretty much in exile for releasing this information to an organization that would responsibly-ish bring it to light.

The authorities still have much to lose if they reveal the truth, so if we want the truth we have to go to what he released. He's already shown that he'll stick his neck out and personally lose a lot to bring the truth to the public, ironically (?) making him an authority by acting in the opposite way of how existing authorities do.

Re:I dont get it

[ArchieBunker]

He provided proof as to what the foil hat wearers were saying all along.

Re:I dont get it

[l0n3s0m3phr34k]

Indeed, many NSA managers kept giving him access to various systems because he could get stuff done ASAP. Eventually, he had access to "too much" information and started seeing a pattern. Live feeds from CIA drones all over the world, various spying programs with major US companies helping out, "pattern matching" for a "foreigner" at a 51% probability. "LOVE INT", with NSA employees using the agency's resources to spy on loved ones and potential dates. If he had been kept properly compartmentalized he probably wouldn't have ever got the "bigger picture" and the realization of just how far out of control the NSA over-all is now.

That's one of the main points behind compartmentalization. No one employee can see the whole of the operation. So, you THINK your writing some software to sort through what your told are "foreign nationals' voice mail", in reality it's being used in a general search right on AT&T's backbone in Room 641a. You never find out that your software is also being sold to several other countries and corps, and being used to track journalists and "dissidents" worldwide.

Re:I dont get it

[Anonymous Coward]

He's a thoughtful dude? Try listening to an interview with him, or read something he's written. What else do you need?

Re:I dont get it

[thegarbz]

Why are people treating him like any sort of authority on anything?

Because he actually tries to fix the problems of the world rather than signing a useless partition, which I'm willing to bet you didn't even put the effort into doing either, am I right?

Re:I dont get it

[Anonymous Coward]

How many are really wearing foil hats though?

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[tom229]

According to most, Snowden did his patriotic duty. You don't even have the sack to post with a registered account, yet you're going to be judge jury and executioner for this man? If even a small fraction of the world had half the courage of this man our collective western society would be much better. Like it used to be.

Publicity stunt

[blueshift_1]

While this is certainly a publicity stunt - it's definitely an entertaining one.

Re:Publicity stunt

[Todd Palin]

It is a publicity stunt, and a damn good one. @snowden has collected almost 500k followers in less than five hours. By the end of today, it is sure to exceed a million. Can you hear me now? You bet your sweet ass!

you go larry lessig etc. truth+mercy=justice

[Anonymous Coward]

no more sugar coated poop sandwiches from our wmd on credit genocidal mutant psychopath crown royal zionic nazi self chosen fauxking overlords.... each our very own special reward.. choose the punishment for others we would prefer for ourselves? thanks again moms..

Dear shills that keep pointing out he's in Russia

[LichtSpektren]

We know the Russian government is evil, spies on its citizens. We know. Pointing it out continually does not diminish the Orwellian nightmare that the U.S. government has become, or diminish the heroism that was required for Snowden to ever accomplish what he did.

I know you don't care because you're shills, I'm only letting you know that your ad hominem arguments are 100% ineffective and you should move on to something better. Thanks.

Interesting remark from him...

[Anonymous Coward]

"And now we have water on Mars!" he wrote. "Do you think they check passports at the border? Asking for a friend."

I wonder if he is finally going to reveal alien life with what was confirmed on Mars, his "alien" friend remark and the US-Mexico border reference?

Re:Interesting remark from him...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude knows the truth but to release that info today would almost be equivalent with detonating nukes all around this planet... Some day he will pull the trigger and most people will be in state of a shock...

over out

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Anonymous Coward]

oh give ma damn break

the CIA director lies to congress, and orders hackers to infiltrate senate intelligence committee computers... and Snowden's the Criminal ?

who do you think is celebrating with our tax dollars, lying about it and getting away with it ?

pathetic.

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[fnj]

According to most, Snowden did his patriotic duty. You don't even have the sack to post with a registered account, yet you're going to be judge jury and executioner for this man? If even a small fraction of the world had half the courage of this man our collective western society would be much better. Like it used to be.

You are remarkably restrained in the face of imbecility. As well as lucid. I admire you.

snowden posting anonymously on /. ?

[Anonymous Coward]

that could raise the ratings to pre corepirate nazi pr firm scripting era levels

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Anonymous Coward]

u mad bro?

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully, the NSA will be able to lean on twitter to geolocate his posts, and drop a bunker buster on him.

Hopefully, you get a cancer soon. You might already have one.

Did you see...

[Anonymous Coward]

The tweet from Katherine Timpf @KatTimpf: I love you @Snowden.

nice...

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Anonymous Coward]

He has escaped to a country that we cannot extradite him from to face charges that he has committed against the US government.
In short, he is a criminal and a fugitive. We should not be celebrating his gloating and continuing flouting against American justice.

Hopefully, the NSA will be able to lean on twitter to geolocate his posts, and drop a bunker buster on him.

American Justice. Like holding him for 12+ years without charge or trial? Some "justice" system you got there.

If you think that's ironic...

[XxtraLarGe]

How about the fact that the NSA is only "following" 109 accounts on Twitter? I thought they followed everyone!

Re:If you think that's ironic...

[Locke2005]

The NSA doesn't need to SUBSCRIBE to your twitter feed to read all your tweets! I don't understand why they bothered subscribing to those 109...

Re:If you think that's ironic...

[fropenn]

Did they follow him back? I mean, it's only common courtesy.

Re:Dear shills that keep pointing out he's in Russ

[LWATCDR]

Can I point out that the NSA is only doing what the current administration tells them to do and that it is President Obama that has not pardoned him and is pushing for his arrest?

time loves a hero

[Anonymous Coward]

but only time will tell? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK_hftXn4dk

Turnabout is fair play

[Locke2005]

The NSA has been following him for a long time now...

Don't care about russian criminals

[Anonymous Coward]

It is very simple. We care about criminal activity within our government not Russian.
Let's hope that one day all criminals exposed by Snowden will finally face the judge.

Re:Tired of hearing about him

[Locke2005]

Right, because launching a missile filled with high explosives at a target in Moscow certainly wouldn't be interpreted as an act of war by anyone...

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Anonymous Coward]

He already IS one.

FTFY

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Locke2005]

Pretty sure it's affected his brain, if he thinks bombing Russian soil wouldn't have any negative repercussions.

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[dysmal]

...our collective western society would be much better. Like it used to be.

It used to be better? When?

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Zontar The Mindless]

I'm sure the Russians wouldn't object to that one bit. *eyeroll*

Re:Tired of hearing about him

[coolmoe2]

Good idea a drone strike in Russia. So you think that hes worth starting a major war over. Man im glad people like you are not in positions of power.

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Anonymous Coward]

The NSA and their supporters are traitors to the American people. You are slime.

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, the waaaaaambulance is busy right now. Please try again later.

I didn't know there were that many...

[Anonymous Coward]

Preteen girls that cared about Snowden.

Re:I didn't know there were that many...

[Anonymous Coward]

For my company, we gave away coupons for posting on Twitter about us. Out of thousands that responded, I don't think we found a single person that wasn't a teenage or younger girl. These number have to be fake since adults don't use that site.

Its official..

[Anonymous Coward]

High Five!!

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully, the NSA will be able to lean on twitter to geolocate his posts, and drop a bunker buster on him.

Not sure wherever the post above should be modded Troll or Funny.

Re:Dear shills that keep pointing out he's in Russ

[AK Marc]

Any action he takes now would impact the election. What will he do in the months between election and inauguration?

NSA and "parallel construction"

[mi]

If the Justice system is being bypassed, how can you claim that someone deserved suffering exactly?

It is not bypassed. A court still needs to convict the accused and the prosecution still needs to present evidence of guilt.

You know that they are telling the truth about their lies how exactly?

Because the convictions aren't based on their statements. Convictions are based on evidence.

What "parallel construction" endangers is the doctrine of "fruit of poisonous tree" — a safeguard meant to discourage the Executive from using illegal means to obtain evidence under the belief, that the crimes themselves are less dangerous than the Executive's actions. The doctrine is worth defending, but the fact remains: NSA-provided data has not been — and can not be, not by itself, anyway — used to frame an innocent person.

Where I am from, a liar is a liar

Sure. But NSA is not doing any of the lying here. Local prosecutors — maybe. But that's not, where Snowden ran away from.

Meanwhile, the very fact that no disheartened leaker ran away from the IRS yet, ought to be telling us something about the relative quality of people between the two agencies...

Re:NSA and "parallel construction"

[s.petry]

I had a lengthy reply but will just say "Read the Constitution and figure out what and why a warrant is required." The lack of a court order or warrant is illegal by our own laws, only made partially acceptable to politicians by the Patriot Act (which numerous people including myself fought and fight against).

Re:NSA and "parallel construction"

[mi]

will just say "Read the Constitution and figure out what and why a warrant is required."

I know perfectly well, what the Constitution says on the matter. Moreover, I agree with you — and expressed this agreement already — that the way NSA is used is dangerous and illegal.

But my point remains — NSA has not been used to actually harm innocents (quite the contrary, actually). Some day they might be used to frame someone inconvenient — through actions going well beyond what you refer to as "parallel reconstruction" — but it has not even been alleged to have had happened so far.

Meanwhile the IRS has been utilized to suppress opposition — the point you've repeatedly ignored, most likely because you happened to dislike this particular opposition yourself.

Once again, while the NSA is dangerously powerful (and unaccountable), it is the notion of "spreading the wealth around", which we ought to fear and resist.

Re:NSA and "parallel construction"

[s.petry]

But my point remains — NSA has not been used to actually harm innocents

My point remains -- this is pure speculation which can not be proven. Knowing the heads of the agency have perjured themselves, I don't trust any claim made by those same people.

Once again, You have stated that they have acted illegally and lied, but you then claim they have not done anything against innocents. I am pretty sure this is called speaking out of both sides of your mouth, and if you really believe it it's called delusion.

Don't get me wrong on that either. I'm not saying we have proof that they have harmed innocent people, I'm saying that their known illegal behavior makes any claim of altruism extremely suspicious and doubtful

Re:NSA and "parallel construction"

[Pseudonym]

NSA-provided data has not been — and can not be, not by itself, anyway — used to frame an innocent person.

You say that like innocent people aren't coerced into taking plea bargains or coerced into becoming government informants all the time.

An innocent person who has the means to get good lawyers can't be sent to prison based on NSA-provided data by itself. If you're willing to spend the time and lose a large chunk of your life in the process, you can probably make it go away eventually. Being sent to prison is hardly the only way that a government agency can harass you.

Remember the FBI's hamfisted attempt to blackmail MLK? He wasn't guilty of a crime, but that didn't matter.

Re:NSA and "parallel construction"

[Copid]

The doctrine is worth defending, but the fact remains: NSA-provided data has not been — and can not be, not by itself, anyway — used to frame an innocent person.

That's assuming it's real evidence. The problem with parallel construction (aside from the obvious fact that it allows the circumvention of our 4th Amendment rights) is that without the ability to know where the hell the evidence against you came from, there's no way to investigate it or question its validity. If the police or prosecution are just allowed to make up a story about where evidence came from, what's to prevent them from fabricating evidence in the first place?

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Anonymous Coward]

What does having a registered account have to do with 'sack'? Anybody relevant can figure out who the posters are with extremely high confidence anyway.

Re:Dear shills that keep pointing out he's in Russ

[Anonymous Coward]

Nuremburg Defense. It didn't work for the Nazis and it shouldn't work for the NSA either.

"Just following orders" is not considered a defense in law, if you know what you are doing is illegal. The NSA should be frightened of their legal exposure. The fact that they are not is a sign of excessive fealty to power. One day it won't be enough.

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Anonymous Coward]

You dumb stupid fuck. I fucking trolled you all, you BITCH!! SUCK MY DICK AND DIE FAGGOT!!

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[amicusNYCL]

Hopefully, the NSA will be able to lean on twitter to geolocate his posts, and drop a bunker buster on him.

Right, because bombing Moscow in order to carry out the extra-judicial assassination of an American citizen is such a fantastic outcome here. You're a moron.

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[Anonymous Coward]

And you got trolled good, asshole. I win.

In Soviet Russia...

[Anonymous Coward]

Snowden follows NSA

Re:Dear shills that keep pointing out he's in Russ

[bledri]

Can I point out that the NSA is only doing what the current administration tells them to do and that it is President Obama that has not pardoned him and is pushing for his arrest?

Yes, the executive branch and congress are complicit in this. How does that make it any "better?" Also, this started a long time ago. In case some nitwit wants to turn this into an Obama sucks rant. He does suck in this regard. And so did Bush. And no doubt Clinton. And every blowhard that's a serious contender for president on both sides of the aisle. And the vast majority of congress.

Honestly, I think you have it backwards. The president and congress do what the NSA tells them. Not in a crazy conspiracy way. Just in the simple, "you don't want to risk an attack on your watch, do you?" sort of way.

Just in: Snowden...

[Rick in China]

Snowden reveals true intentions - to garner enough vitriol from the US government that they pay attention when he actively trolls them on twitter.

Re:Just in: Snowden...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the account twitter.com/Snowden is not him...

Eddie Snowden

[Anonymous Coward]

Edward is going to die screaming. The coroner will note that his open eyes were as big and round as dinner plates.

The NSA is a tool

[Anonymous Coward]

> The NSA is a tool which can, and has been, used for bad as well as good.

Problem is -- it's a tool with a "will" of its own.

> A rifle is similarly a tool.

The difference being that a rifle won't go about its business without you, its owner knowing of it. The NSA its doing its thing without Congress knowing or approving what it's doing. And it has a kind of will which is a combination between the wills and ambitions of the higher-ups and the strange drive for self-conservation you can observe on any bigger agency. *That* makes them particularly dangerous.

Re:Tired of hearing about him

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm tired of it too. It seems like a media publicity stunt at this point instead of releasing it all and moving on. We get stories week after week for the past two years to distract the public from what is really going on.

And yes, I'm surprised he hasn't had an "accident" yet. Hell, I'm wondering why the Russian mob hasn't kidnapped him and tried to get a ransom.

Taxing the work to console the idleness

[mi]

I vote that you move to somewhere where your money won't be taken from you by the government.

As is, of course, perfectly clear from my post, I do not object to all taxation. I do object to taxation required to fight the colossal failure lovingly referred to as "War on Poverty". The cost of which happens to eclipse the combined costs of all of our nation's real wars since the very establishment of the Republic combined.

Re: Taxing the work to console the idleness

[Anonymous Coward]

See what happens if you end food aid in America. You have no concept of the extreme income gap created since the Reagan era, but if you end social programs, you will.

Cart before the Horse

[ThatsNotPudding]

Can I point out that the NSA is only doing what the current administration tells them to do and that it is President Obama that has not pardoned him and is pushing for his arrest?

You have it backwards. I can't be the only one that noticed President Obama did a near 180 from Candidate Obama, far more than the usual irrelevant campaign lies. Gitmo stayed (and is still) open for business, no one from the Bush admin were prosecuted for their CRIMES, and the number of cowardly extra-judicial remote control murders went through the roof.

Which is more likely, Ockham: the first black Democratic president turns out to be more right-wing than Nixon, or just after the oath of office, he and his family are threatened by the Security-Intelligence empire that has more power than Hoover could have ever fantasized about?

Re:Cart before the Horse

[LWATCDR]

"Which is more likely, Ockham: the first black Democratic president turns out to be more right-wing than Nixon, or just after the oath of office, he and his family are threatened by the Security-Intelligence empire that has more power than Hoover could have ever fantasized about?"

Simple President Obama found out that was not what he thought it was when he was running.
The idea that US security agencies threatened the family of the President of the US is bat crap crazy. Your razor is very dull.

Re:Let's Remember He's a Fugitive

[david_thornley]

I suspect that, if you were to research it, you'd find that the majority of the population would want Snowden to stand trial and serve time. He is a fugitive, and is not a criminal only in the sense that he hasn't been convicted.

I believe that most Slashdotters want him exonerated (I do, and like everybody else I extrapolate from one data point), but we're not a representative sample of the US population.

Re:Dear shills that keep pointing out he's in Russ

[LWATCDR]

So President Obama is going to keep doing illegal things because an election is coming... Yeah that is better.

Re:Dear shills that keep pointing out he's in Russ

[LWATCDR]

"Honestly, I think you have it backwards. The president and congress do what the NSA tells them. Not in a crazy conspiracy way. Just in the simple, "you don't want to risk an attack on your watch, do you?" sort of way."
The NSA and CIA are under the president not congress he can fire the directors without congressional approval.
So you are saying that he is breaking the law because he does not want to be blamed for an attack on US soil? Yea that makes things better.

Re:Dear shills that keep pointing out he's in Russ

[AK Marc]

Not pardoning Snowden is illegal?