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NY Times: Temporary Visas To Import Talent Help Copycats Take Jobs Abroad

ErichTheRed writes: A new article from the NY Times surprised me. It describes what we in the IT industry see all the time — H-1B visas being used way outside of their original purpose. I think this is significant because the article describes the problem well and shows how Tata, Accenture, etc. are offshoring regular office work as well as IT work. I feel that showing the average Joe/Jane that their nice safe middle class office job isn't so safe is the only way to sway popular opinion on this important matter! Reader theodp notes that Congress is making H-1B visa less costly for India-based IT services providers.

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  1. The article leaves out a minor point... by Rob+Y. · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article neglects to report on the end results of this process - making it seem like 'well, this is nasty, but it's what American business needs to do to remain competitive'. Since they mention Cognizant as one of the big players using this 'tape the current workers and then fire them' approach, let me comment as an ex worker that was ultimately fired after surviving a Cognizant outsourcing for several years and working with their devs (technically 'rebadged' as a Cognizant dev myself):

    1. Productivity takes a huge hit. I have no idea whether the cost savings are enough to counteract that, but in our case the software products that had their development outsourced, all - without exception - have died on the vine and are now running on skeleton crews in anticipation of being shutdown once all existing support contracts with customers end. That's the endpoint where I lost my job.

    2. The Indian developers never get up to speed. Or more accurately, they begin to get up to speed after 9 months to a year - but then Cognizant rotates them out to other projects, and you're back to total green junior guys watching the videos and asking stupid questions again. And yes, this is all by design. Cognizant's big selling point to the US companies is that they enable great flexibility to ramp staff up and down on demand. Why those companies believe that crap is another story altogether.

    3. There is no concept of a senior developer. Prior to the Cognizant experience, the senior devs came up through the ranks and had an incredible depth of knowledge and experience about the specific products they were managing. Ultimately, that product-specific knowledge became as valuable as their tech chops. The Cognizant model relies on 'business analysts' who came up through the product design - i.e. spec writers, not through development. So where those folks used to be or have access to senior developers to sanity check their designs, there is now an utter vacuum. So there is no iterative back-and-forth to fix broken designs. Stuff gets built (way late) according to specs with problems that should've been caught along the way. Meanwhile, the offshore dev's spun their wheels trying to build something they didn't understand - often because it didn't make sense. Only to need to have it completely trashed and rewritten.

    4. And this is a big one. All that 'knowledge transfer' material (i.e. the videos and any corresponding writeups) are the exclusive property of Cognizant. So that even if you come to realize that the Cognizant outsourcing was a mistake, you have already fired the people who had the original knowledge - and you don't even own the (shitty) materials to train staff to replace Cognizant. They essentially own your operation - at the same time as they drag it down.

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    Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    1. Re:The article leaves out a minor point... by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Informative

      2. The Indian developers never get up to speed.

      Yes, I've seen this repeatedly in several different companies.

      At Boeing, the Indian developers I worked with didn't have the required security clearance(s) to work on the project they had been hired for...so they sat in a separate room and played solitaire at $65 an hours. For months.

      At Microsoft they could barely communicate, didn't understand the goals of the project (!!) and were nearly incapable of coding; anything that required the slightest bit of innovative thought or initiative was beyond them. Problem solving? Forget it, they just had no idea how to even begin to disassemble a problem and work the steps necessary to get through it.

      At AT&T they turned in code that wouldn't compile, and they did this over and over and over and over and over and over and over. They "coded" stuff with no error checking, no bounds checking, no type checking, no sanity tests, no sanitization of incoming data, etc etc etc.

      But remember, there are NO people in the entire USA that have the skills these guys were hired to do. Apparently not even me, the guy who was fixing most of their mistakes.

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      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  2. Re:Is the NYT Racist? by cat_jesus · · Score: 3, Informative

    I love Bernie but he's probably not electable and even if by some miracle he were, I don't think he would be able to bend congress to his will.

    The single biggest threat is American stupidity. Americans by and large are stupid and incredibly susceptible to propaganda.

    I must point out how incredible it is that the republican field is filled with creationists, war mongers, misogynists and global warming deniers and the top three candidates have never held any public office. They truly are the party of stupidity.

  3. Re:Uh, seriously... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Or to spell it out for you, it's not the work itself, but rather who you're working for, that makes it a 'less than honest' job

    Some of the hardest working people I know are government workers. Many are ex-military. They get very little respect from the public because public service is held is low regards.

    And for the record, I find it rather amusing that you think 2,000 systems is a normal deployment for a fortune 500 company, or that 80,000 systems is a lot.

    With my Fortune 500 jobs, 2,000 systems at a site was the norm. With my government job, it's 80,000 systems in ten states and three time zones. Not exactly an apple to apple comparison.