American IT Workers Increasingly Alleging Discrimination

An anonymous reader writes: Some U.S. IT workers who have been replaced with H-1B contractors are alleging discrimination and are going to court. They are doing so in increasing numbers. There are at least seven IT workers at Disney who are pursuing, or plan to pursue, federal and state discrimination administrative complaints over their layoffs. Separately, there are ongoing court cases alleging discrimination against two of the largest India-based IT services firms, Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services. There may also be federal interest in examining the issue.

Comments

Re:Unionize

[silas_moeckel]

Because union are sure to draw in the best and the brightest?

Unions have to figure out how to reward the top people you want working for you. So far the best they have come up with is those with the most time make the most etc. Till then it's just a way to force you to keep the underperformers.

Re:Unionize

[Lendrick]

The only thing worse than having unions is not having them.

Apples-to-Llamas

[pla]

"But Your Honor, we didn't get any applicants to our job posting for a minimum-wage principal engineer... We had no choice but to use H1Bs to fill this critical position!"

Re:Apples-to-Llamas

[__aaclcg7560]

When I worked as a video game tester and lead tester for six years, we were paid $16/hr and nearby Sony paid $20/hr. Management always told us if we didn't like our pay rate, we could go down the street and work at Taco Bell to clean toilets after the lunch hour rush. One of the testers looked into it, quit his job and started working at Taco Bell. He made more money, had better hours and more benefits. Management stopped talking about Taco Bell after that. The company eventually filed for bankruptcy protection after the dot com bust.

My experience with Infosys

[UnknowingFool]

Here's my experience with Infosys: Their tactic is to always be the lowest bidder. When they get the contract, the staff they send generally is untrained with many of them learning the skills they need on the job on the client's dime. We had a contract with a client and were replaced by Infosys. So we had to hand over all of our functions to them; it was apparent that only one person in a team of 12 had the skills to do the job. After a year, the client fired them and came to us. But they wanted Infosys rates; we declined.

Re:My experience with Infosys

[Maxo-Texas]

My experience with Infosys was different.

For older technology they were highly competent. For newer technology they were not competent. They were always training on our time.

They always said yes to every project which managers loved until the projects failed. You need to learn that when infosys personnel people say "I'll do my best" an american would say, "We probably can't make that deadline even working overtime" and think "WTF!?!? Are you batshit crazy? That's impossible."

One BIG thing to learn when Infosys specifically is brought in to "help" you is that 90% of your staff is on the chopping block within 5 years.

When Infosys walks in the door, unless you are the lead in the area and have superior business side skills, you should be walking out the door. Today- not tomorrow-- unless you want a nice severance package.

But don't underestimate their competence with technology once it's about 3 years old. Unlike most U.S. companies they pay for continuous formal training and certification for their staff. They DO catch up.

And from a business perspective, it's great to be able to "turn on" and "turn off" resources without paying unemployment and without spending 17 hours interviewing candidates over three months. Instead the new person is there-- next week.

And if all you need is "construction" coding by "code monkeys" combined with unit testing they fill that need as well as u.s. resources. If you are working for a company and you are a "code monkey"-- even a very good one- you need to think about a new job when they come onboard. Business analysts usually survive. But not programmers unless they are top 1% or have some very obscure specialty knowledge (and even then they are often hired by infosys for a year or two at best).

BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN YOUR COMPANY HIRES INFOSYS. YOUR JOB WITH THEM IS PROBABLY ENDING in 3 to 5 YEARS.

Age discrimination is obvious

[Notorious G]

I interviewed with 2 companies last year that were very up front about my being mid-40's was a problem. In one company, 5 of the 7 people I talked to brought it up and a couple clearly had problems with it. The recruiter that flew me out congratulated me on putting up with it - what an asshat.

Over 40 in IT, hold on to the job you got because the next one won't hire anyone over 40.

Re:Age discrimination is obvious

[Anonymous Coward]

In the US, that's a violation of federal law and you could (and should) file a complaint with the EEOC if the statute of limitations hasn't expired. It might also be a violation of state laws, depending on where you live/interviewed. You are NOT allowed to use a person's age as a qualification for a job unless there is some aspect of the job that requires it (i.e. you're doing a photo shoot for toddler clothing).

If more people started filing complaints about this kind of thing and more companies started getting slapped with fines and lawsuits filed by the EEOC and state counterparts (assuming your state even has its own version of the EEOC) things would start to change as it became cheaper for companies to ensure everyone with hiring authority was trained on what they can and cannot do.

Re:Unionize

[Old97]

A lot of the rules you're asking for exist, but they aren't enforced. Lawyers put together some plausible but incorrect statements and file them with authorities who aren't eager to check them out. There are videos on the internet showing various lawyers and clients conspiring to do this. To top it off, most in Congress are more loyal to the executives in the IT industry demanding higher quotas then they are to common people. Even when it's been demonstrated that these executives, Bill Gates included, are lying through their teeth about the salaries they pay the H1B's. Your last suggestions hint at a better solution and that is to remove employer sponsorship and control from the H1B process and the visa award completely. H1B holders should be able to change jobs at will and compete for whatever salaries they can get. Currently H1B holders are cheap and compliant due to the fact that they can't change jobs and it is that which makes them so appealing to employers. Free the H1B's and then they will only be valued based on their skills and productivity.

Re:Fine by me

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Feds,

Please to do the needful.

Re:Unionize

[Hognoxious]

We need to make companies overcome the burden of proof that there is no one qualified domestically for a job before they can get an H1B.

Also that the qualification is relevant, and that the visa applicant does have it. None of this 15 years on Java 9 with a black belt in origami crap.

Re:Ethics

[Rob Riggs]

Hiring a specific sub-sect of human because they can be paid less is more than discriminatory. It's unethical.

Multi-national companies are *not* American companies and they have no allegiance to America or its citizens. Their ethics are not your ethics. They see "shareholder value" as the highest ethic. To them, national boundaries are a hindrance to maximizing shareholder value.

This is why we can't have nice things

[jcadam]

The concept behind the H1-B program sounds reasonable. Bring in highly skilled experts from overseas that we can't find here. However, since it's now been thoroughly demostrated that:

1) Employers can't be trusted to act ethically and honor both the letter and spirit of the law, and
2) The government has been steadfastly failing to monitor the program and enforce the rules

The entire program needs to be scrapped. No H1-Bs, period. We apparently can't handle it, so employers need to find the talent here, or do without (or, you know, invest in employee development/training again).

Re:Unionize

[tehcyder]

Exactly. Unionizing might solve one problem but would introduce a hundred more.

We need to make companies overcome the burden of proof that there is no one qualified domestically for a job before they can get an H1B. Other countries do this effectively.

We don't need to bring unions in to fleece dues out of everyone, jump in the middle of workplace disputes, destroy advancement based on merit, destroy the incentive to go the extra mile and be a star performer, etc etc. Perhaps if you are a cog turning a screwdriver for a living they are all well and good, but in IT where people work with their minds, it needs to be a creative, innovative, free environment.

You have absolutely no idea how unions for non-manual jobs work, do you?

Here's a hint: the professional associations for lawyers, doctors and so on are actually unions.

Re:Unionize

[tompaulco]

I figured they were being qualified. That's the only way I can explain the recruitment calls I get.

Ok, you found me on linkedin, you can see then I have a great full time job. Sure I'd love to sell my home and quit my job so I can move across the country for a 2 month contract gig that might be extended based on their needs.....

Thanks for calling recruiter from India...

That's OK, if you had pursued it you would have to fill out their application. One of the questions on the application is "What is your H1b Visa number?" If you do not fill it out, due to being a citizen, then your resume goes in the garbage. These companies openly discriminate against hiring United States citizens in favor of H1b Visa holding nationals of other countries. There are Indian consulting companies who have literally not a single United States citizens employed with them. and yet millions of other companies around the United States are able to find United States citizens to do the job. This should be firing off all kinds of alarm bells to anyone looking at these Indian consulting companies. They are breaking the law and need to be punished.