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All Malibu Media Subpoenas In Eastern District NY Put On Hold

NewYorkCountryLawyer sends an update on the progress of Malibu Media, the company that filed subpoenas and copyright lawsuits over alleged BitTorrent piracy of pornography films: A federal Magistrate Judge in Central Islip, New York, has just placed all Malibu Media subpoenas in Brooklyn, Queens, Long Island, and Staten Island on hold indefinitely, due to "serious questions" raised by a motion to quash (PDF) filed in one of them. Judge Steven Locke's 4-page Order and Decision (PDF) cited the defendant's arguments that "(i) the common approach for identifying allegedly infringing BitTorrent users, and thus the Doe Defendant, is inconclusive; (ii) copyright actions, especially those involving the adult film industry, are susceptible to abusive litigation practices; and (iii) Malibu Media in particular has engaged in abusive litigation practices" as being among the reasons for his issuance of the stay.

67 comments

  1. DMCA needs to die by Roodvlees · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Great that anti-piracy bullshit is not enforced here, probably because it's a porn producer. But there are still plenty of reasons why DMCA is terrible and should die.

    --
    Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    1. Re:DMCA needs to die by jonwil · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This has nothing to do with the DMCA, this is a straight out copyright infringement lawsuit being filed.

      The real problem is that the methods the copyright holders (or the copyright enforcement goons acting on their behalf) are using to identify torrent users aren't good enough and its good to see at least one judge willing to call these enforcers out on it.

    2. Re: DMCA needs to die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Porn doesn't become unhappy with me after I refuse to buy it a second brand new luxury vehicle.

      Porn doesn't then divorce me, claiming I physically abused it, and have a court blindly accept this false accusation.

      Family courts don't award porn 50 to 100% of my current assets and future paychecks to support porn's lifestyle after porn branch-swings to another guy.

    3. Re: DMCA needs to die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you're saying is... "Porn sucks but you're wife doesn't" or "My hand sucks but my wife doesn't"

    4. Re: DMCA needs to die by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      Porn also does not produce children, which in your case is really fortunate for us all, because we won't have to buy them a lifetime of therapy.

    5. Re:DMCA needs to die by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 1

      This has nothing to do with the DMCA, this is a straight out copyright infringement lawsuit being filed. The real problem is that the methods the copyright holders (or the copyright enforcement goons acting on their behalf) are using to identify torrent users aren't good enough and its good to see at least one judge willing to call these enforcers out on it.

      Exactly. Would have been nice for judges to start doing this 11 years ago, but glad they've come around.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    6. Re:DMCA needs to die by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2

      IMO the DMCA is overall a good thing (especially the safe harbor provision) but has two big flaws:

      1) Anti-circumvention rules don't permit non-infringing use.
      2) There's all of about zero restitution for fraudulent take down notices. (I.e. having somebody swear under penalty of perjury on your behalf is a really weak standard, and is often used to suppress youtube videos within their first four days of being posted, which is when they get the most views and ad revenue for those who post them.)

  2. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    DMCA is not the problem. It needs reform, surely, but it also needs to be enforced.

    Right now as it is, pirates get away with way too much. There's pretty much no chance of getting in trouble for pirating or copyright infringement. Even if you're caught, the penalty is a slap on the wrist. Oooh, your video is no longer on YouTube. Boo hoo hoo.

    Two things need to be done to fix copyright.

    1) Reform copyright terms to 5 years by default. Copyright owners can extend it for an increasing fee, indefinitely if they wish. This fee will eventually be so high that they will be better off releasing it into the public domain.

    2) Copyright law must be enforced, and seriously. It must have sane penalties though. Simple infringement for personal use should be a misdemeanor. However, sites should be forced to police themselves better, and there should be more police effort to stop infringement.

    Right now copyright law is useless because it is ineffective and ridiculous. If copyright law is sane and actually risky for people to break while still aiding the public domain, it will be a much better solution.

    1. Re: No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The fees idea is bad. In order to have any fairness with things like independent movies, or copyleft licensed code, you'd need to make it dependent on how much money the company makes with the content. And over the years, companies have collected tons of ways how to "enhance" their books so that it seems they are poor, and make no money.
      So the only thing this ruling will create is that the rich companies will be abled to protect their content indefinitely, and the smaller ones will lose protections very fast.

      And I haven't even mentioned those works yet, where the creator didn't prolong copyright beyond the initial term because they haven't thought it would be successful, and then the work does become a success, where publishers make all the money, and the creator doesn't see a penny. Right now its easy to prevent this: just don't sell any rights. This comes for free.

    2. Re:No by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 4, Interesting

      1) Reform copyright terms to 5 years by default.

      This severely penalises small content producers in favour of massive corporations, all a publisher needs to do is wait five years and they can leverage their marketing and distribution might to completely own a franchise while the original creator gets nada.

    3. Re:No by jabuzz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In addition anything less than Berne Convention for copyright is a none starter; that boat has sailed. However Berne Convention is a lot less than what we have currently in both north America and Europe. Rolling Copyright terms back to Berne Convention should be the initial goal.

    4. Re: No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      All the publisher has to do is pay to renew the copyright. The fees for first renewal will be low. If the work was any good, he would make enough to easily cover the small fee. And if the work didn't make any money, why would a big corporation be interested in it.

    5. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A LOT less? The Berne Convention is life plus 50 years for literary works (current US law is life plus 70 years). That isn't a very significant difference. For movies, Berne says 50 years after first showing. Still not too different from US law.

    6. Re: No by ravenshrike · · Score: 2

      5Ã--10^x would be easy to pay, with the initial registry being free. At 20 years thats 555 bucks, but almost everything enters public domain at 30-40 years after initial sale. Also, all video games must submit all source code to be distributed upon lapse of copyright.

    7. Re:No by geoskd · · Score: 1

      This severely penalises small content producers in favour of massive corporations, all a publisher needs to do is wait five years and they can leverage their marketing and distribution might to completely own a franchise while the original creator gets nada.

      If after 5 years, any producer of content is relying on that content for income, then they effectively have no further value to society.

      Another way to say it is that if you haven't made your money on it within 5 years, you almost certainly never will.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    8. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's bullshit and you know it. But I wouldn't expect anything better from a pink-skirted lying antitheist whackjob like you. Plenty of content has made far more money after five years of production than it did within the first five years. Star Trek and classic Doctor Who are perfect examples of this. TV networks are often willing to give a fourth season to TV shows with three seasons and low ratings in the third season that would otherwise merit cancellation. The reason is that 88 episodes (four seasons) is generally the minimum to license a show into syndication and profit after its initial run. If copyright were limited to five terms, it would generally kill a lot of content production because producers wouldn't be able to profit off of syndication. There are plenty of good books that continue to be profitable many years after they were published, especially if that book becomes the premise for other media. An example is Stephen King's book Under The Dome and how it was turned into a TV show by CBS well after it was written. If you'd leave your parents' basement and enter the real world, you might understand that a lot of content is more profitable more than five years after its creation. This doesn't mean that copyright should be infinite; it's probably much too long already. But limiting copyrights to five years is incredibly stupid.

    9. Re:No by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Those 20 years is a 28% increase in the after death portion of copyright. As for the movies, think about it for a moment, it would mean every movie prior to 1965 was in the public domain. Currently Steamboat Willie is still under copyright protection, it was shown in 1928, that 37 year difference is a 74% increase in the copyright, though in reality it is even more. The idea that these are not significant is just plain nonsense.

      Getting back to Berne Convention would be a massive step in the right direction, and does not require changing any international treaties which makes it wildly easier to accomplish.

    10. Re:No by tehcyder · · Score: 3, Informative

      Another way to say it is that if you haven't made your money on it within 5 years, you almost certainly never will.

      Not all artistic works have the short life of a Hollywood blockbuster or Top 10 music track.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    11. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition anything less than Berne Convention for copyright is a non starter; that boat has sailed.

      Not at all true with respect to US law: the Bill of Rights is the highest law in the land, not the original Constitution. Treaties are only valid if they don't contradict rights arising under the Bill of Rights: including any rights the people might decide are retained by (9th Amendment) or reserved to (10th Amendment) them. This can be seen both as a matter of legal history, or simply by applying the right to ethical practice of law (actual or even merely perceived contradictions in the legal system always involve unethical practice of law).

  3. Add to the process by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All already "aggreed" paid penalties in it, and return them to the falsly accused people if bogus.

  4. You're a funny dinosaur, and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Porn needs to die. It harms families, creates promiscuity, and is harmful to children and women. Why we tolerate this smut in our Christian nation I will never know.

    I know you're trolling, but I'll bite anyway.

    All the perceived negative effects of porn stem from sex and nudity having been given a historic stigma by the church, for which your kind is to blame entirely. There is nothing evil or harmful in natural sexual processes whatsoever, nor in the naked body, but just the opposite: they provide happiness and enjoyment, and as a side effect produce offspring which was nature's motive for making sex enjoyable in the first place.

    The above doesn't excuse non-consensual or violent porn of any kind, nor sexual servitude under duress, let alone attacks on children. Those are all simply criminal abuse, and should have no place in a civilized society. That's not because of religious doctrine but because abuse and duress are a violation of people's personal freedom and safety in a supportive society.

    Religion has programmed you into seeing good things as evil without any defensible justification other than historic dictats. You really ought to think about it yourself a little more deeply and logically, instead of blindly adopting what you're told to think. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

    1. Re:You're a funny dinosaur, and wrong by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Very well said. Wish I had mod points. :)

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    2. Re:You're a funny dinosaur, and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "All the perceived negative effects of porn stem from sex and nudity having been given a historic stigma by the church, for which your kind is to blame entirely. There is nothing evil or harmful in natural sexual processes whatsoever, nor in the naked body, but just the opposite: they provide happiness and enjoyment, and as a side effect produce offspring which was nature's motive for making sex enjoyable in the first place."

      If you make more things forbidden, then you have more things to feel guilty about. And if you feel guilty about something you need someone to forgive you.
      And having a select few who know everyone's guilty little secrets gives those few a lot of indirect power.

    3. Re:You're a funny dinosaur, and wrong by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You have to remember that Christianity is at its core a guilt trip. We are all pitiful sinners that can be redeemed by the mercy of our Lord, who selflessly sent his only son so he could die for our sins. That's how it starts in the garden of Eden with the original sin, the seven deadly sins of lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy and pride and so on. Who has never had a touch of any of them? Not to mention all the implied ones by breaking the commandments and so on, unless you're a walking saint everybody needs forgiveness for something. Sexuality is of course a big one, take a basic instinct humans have and turn it into something shameful and you'll have a never-ending supply of people needing forgiveness for their sinful thoughts. Fortunately this institutionalized manipulation is in massive retreat though there's still some slut shaming at the fringes but for the most part people seem to feel good about their sexuality. As it should be.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:You're a funny dinosaur, and wrong by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I was at a service by my wife's cousin (Lutheran pastor), and he read the Creed of St. Athanasius. It started out by saying that the author was a miserable sinner who deserved eternal torment. That gave my religious thinking a kick-start.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    5. Re:You're a funny dinosaur, and wrong by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      That's how it starts in the garden of Eden with the original sin, the seven deadly sins of lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy and pride and so on. Who has never had a touch of any of them?

      But don't forget, the all-powerful all-knowing all-whatever invisible friend wants it that way... after all, it is all-everything, right? Or is it?

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    6. Re:You're a funny dinosaur, and wrong by myowntrueself · · Score: 2

      Porn needs to die. It harms families, creates promiscuity, and is harmful to children and women. Why we tolerate this smut in our Christian nation I will never know.

      I know you're trolling, but I'll bite anyway.

      All the perceived negative effects of porn stem from sex and nudity having been given a historic stigma by the church, for which your kind is to blame entirely. There is nothing evil or harmful in natural sexual processes whatsoever, nor in the naked body, but just the opposite: they provide happiness and enjoyment, and as a side effect produce offspring which was nature's motive for making sex enjoyable in the first place.

      The above doesn't excuse non-consensual or violent porn of any kind, nor sexual servitude under duress, let alone attacks on children. Those are all simply criminal abuse, and should have no place in a civilized society. That's not because of religious doctrine but because abuse and duress are a violation of people's personal freedom and safety in a supportive society.

      Religion has programmed you into seeing good things as evil without any defensible justification other than historic dictats. You really ought to think about it yourself a little more deeply and logically, instead of blindly adopting what you're told to think. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

      One of the problems with porn is that, even in porn which is definitely not non-consensual or violent, it does not present actual sex. You aren't watching people having sex; you are watching people (effectively) pretending to have sex but what they are doing is just 'for the camera'. If you actually try doing this stuff yourself you might find that its actually not very enjoyable.

      The good old 'facial cumshot' is a good example of this. So you have a beautiful woman, apparently skilled in fellatio, blowing you and what do you do when you are about to reach orgasm? You pull your cock right out of your mouth and you MASTURBATE to finish off on her face. FFS!!! This is totally ridiculous.

      This is what 'causes harm'. People start forming the idea that this is what sex actually is and what you should do.

      This seems to be a relatively modern phenomenon. In older porn, 1970s and '80s, in the old 'Swedish movies' for example, its much more realistic sex; as if you are peering into peoples bedrooms (bathrooms, lounges etc) and watching them at it.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    7. Re:You're a funny dinosaur, and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the perceived negative effects of porn stem from sex and nudity having been given a historic stigma by the church

      Incorrect, sex is addictive and porn helps enable people to masturbate far more often than they would have sex. Excessive masturbation/sex cases measurable, destructive changes in your brain. I agree with you that the church destroyed sex education and makes things much worse, but even ignoring the creation of false expectations, porn is still bad for your brain.

      There is nothing evil or harmful in natural sexual processes whatsoever... The above doesn't excuse non-consensual or violent porn of any kind, nor sexual servitude under duress, let alone attacks on children. Those are all simply criminal abuse, and should have no place in a civilized society.

      The above does excuse it. You can't say sex is natural then claim violent sex isn't. You can spend weeks flitting with someone for the chance to reproduce or you can spend that time raping multiple people, kill or injure the person doing the flitting, and rape that person's target too. Evolutionary pressure is for violence and against non-violence. The raper has a higher chance of making babies and those babies will have similar genes. A large group of passive people can be completed wiped out by a couple aggressive people. Luckily parts of our society work against it, but you only need to look at the animal kingdom to see how cruel evolution can be. When a male lion takes over another's pride, it kills all of the previous lion's cubs. The females (the cubs' moms) sometimes help too. In many species, such as dolphins, the males rape the females. It's a natural test of quality. The female is always paired with a stronger male which will result in stronger offspring of both sexes.

      Sex being addictive also leads to more violent sex. You need to do more to get the same level of enjoyment out if it. The addicted people who masturbate tens of times per day get little enjoyment out of it. They do it to get rid of the need, they do it to feel normal for a little while. Just like a drug addition. Before you get to that point, increasing the power, control, and aggressiveness increases the feelings so that's exactly what happens as the initial feelings become the new normal.

      Stop thinking about things yourself and go read the research and studies. People have spent their lives studying these things, why are your random thoughts better than their scientific experiments?

  5. Righthaven by Required+Snark · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The "Motion to Quash" (gotta love that name) references Righthaven as an example of abuse of copyright.

    Federal courts have addressed such practices regarding plaintiffs "attempt to create cottage industry of filing copyright claims, making large claims for damages and then settling claims for pennies on the dollar." Righthaven LLC v. Democratic Underground LLC, No.2:11-cv-01356 (D. Nev. April 14, 2011).

    Somehow I find it unsurprising that pornographers and right wing nutjobs try and use the same scam.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
    1. Re:Righthaven by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      What is right wing about that process? The Democrats support the movie industry, not the Republicans. Or are you one of those Europeans that thinks all of america is right wing compared to them?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    2. Re:Righthaven by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What is right wing about that process? The Democrats support the movie industry, not the Republicans.

      The fact that Democrats support something doesn't negate the possibility of something being right wing. The Democrats are not ideologically pure, or ideologically homogenous, and very few of them can be considered "left".

      To me, pretending that copyright is only about property rights, and ignoring the fact that copyright was also supposed to be about free speech and about making material available for free to the public after a limited time, is definitely "right wing".

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    3. Re:Righthaven by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I can understand where you are coming from, but I was responding to this:

      The "Motion to Quash" (gotta love that name) references Righthaven as an example of abuse of copyright.
      Federal courts have addressed such practices regarding plaintiffs "attempt to create cottage industry of filing copyright claims, making large claims for damages and then settling claims for pennies on the dollar." Righthaven LLC v. Democratic Underground LLC, No.2:11-cv-01356 (D. Nev. April 14, 2011).

      Somehow I find it unsurprising that pornographers and right wing nutjobs try and use the same scam.

      What is right wing about filing a lawsuit to unmask a doe, suing that person, then settling for a much smaller amount. It seems this is used by many different trolls, and likely doesn't have any political ideology behind it. It is sleazy though. Filing a lawsuit with the intention of settling just to get a payout is wrong. It is short circuiting the justice system for personal profit.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    4. Re:Righthaven by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 1

      What is right wing about filing a lawsuit to unmask a doe, suing that person, then settling for a much smaller amount. It seems this is used by many different trolls, and likely doesn't have any political ideology behind it. It is sleazy though. Filing a lawsuit with the intention of settling just to get a payout is wrong. It is short circuiting the justice system for personal profit.

      Yeah that's neither right nor left, it's the universal language of greedy bloodsuckers.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    5. Re:Righthaven by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      What is right wing about that process? The Democrats support the movie industry, not the Republicans. Or are you one of those Europeans that thinks all of america is right wing compared to them?

      If your "left wing" party supports big business, then I think it really is fair to say that the US is on average more right wing than Europe, certainly in economic terms.

      What complicates things is that in many European countries, the formerly left wing parties have also become centre-right (e.g. New Labour in the UK), although there do seem to be signs of a leftward swing back again, as with the anti-austerity movements in Greece or Spain.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  6. wow 38% of copyright cases, 88% of IP, are Malibu by raymorris · · Score: 2

    The motion to quash indicates that 38% of all copyright cases filed over a certain period were Malibu (x-art). Also, it indicates that 43% are based on an IP address. I think the vast majority Malibu's cases are IP-based, though in the past they've gone after web site operators who unlawfully published Malibu's work.

    If 38% are Malibu and that's included in the 43% that are IP-based, that means that 88% of IP-based cases are Malibu.

    Assuming that Malibu's are a problem, one can solve 88% of the problem by looking at the specifics of what Malibu does and putting a stop to their particular methods. In other words, because Malibu is 88% of the problem, you only need to stop Malibu in order to solve the vast majority of the problem.

    Because Malibu did in fact download part of the copyright video from defendant's home, the Washington.edu reference is actually irrelevant. Therefore it seems to me that the one clear problem is that Malibu hasn't followed court orders to file motions under seal. Generally, they do seem to maybe be abusing discovery, though offering to setttle isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    They do have a right to protect their rights to their very fappable content, and someone in that household did in fact unlawfully violate their rights, so they COULD bring a legitimate suit and handle it properly. But they don't.

  7. I have actually filed a DMCA takedown by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Informative

    It was on behalf of a local author who presented to my user group with a sad little short story. After having published a children's book through Amazon (trade paperback POD, not Kindle) which became popular, some site in the UK popped up with a scanned copy of her book offered for sale. This is apparently a common scam targeting both print and online authors. We filed a takedown, and the pirated content was gone the next day.

    DMCA works internationally in "notice and takedown" countries, which include the EU. It's by treaty, somewhat like extradition.

    1. Re:I have actually filed a DMCA takedown by Locke2005 · · Score: 2

      That was proper use of DMCA, somebody was profiting off of someone else's intellectual property. Now imagine someone uploaded one page of the book while downloading the book (this is analogous to what BitTorrent does). You can't issue a take down notice to EVERY seeder, and the laws intended to stop people from selling intellectual property they don't shouldn't really apply to people accidentally distributing a very small part of intellectual property they don't own, should they? The punishment should fit the crime, and the penalties should be much less..

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  8. Seems redundant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The judge told the porn producer to get fucked.

    1. Re:Seems redundant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot your sunglasses and your "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!", Mister Crane.

  9. Thanks for this, NYCL! by Binkleyz · · Score: 2

    IANAL but I read court documents for fun (Sad, no?) via well-oilied PACER account, and this whole case has made for some very entertaining reading.

    Regardless of the merits of the practices that Mailbu Media use, it's hard to see how the film industry as a whole (not just the adult version) can really survive if the standard of proof for infringement is a concrete connection to a specific user AND a requirement that the downloader receive a usable section of the overall file(s). One of the key points in the documents seem to be that the mere possession of a file fragment is not sufficient to rise to the level of an actionable tort is pretty telling, since that would require the court to make some sort of threshold for when a piece of an overall file becomes infringing.

    1. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by sjames · · Score: 2

      The standard of proof HAS to be high considering that the penalties are ruinous. Beyond that, If I am to be deputized as a defender of other people's copyrights in my home, I better be getting a paycheck from the beneficiaries.

      But beyond that, the movie industry is showing no signs of damage from copyright infringement. Their profits are higher than ever.

    2. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by sconeu · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you want to know about the merits of the practices that Malibu Media use, go to Ars, Techdirt, or Popehat and search for "Prenda Law".

      Hint. There ARE NO merits to their practices.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    3. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Informative

      The decision isn't about what is or is not copyright infringement. It's about whether you can sue somebody without any evidence that they did in fact commit a copyright infringement.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    4. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by Binkleyz · · Score: 1

      No doubt that the potential liability here is truly epic.

      As to the profit side of the equation, I'm not really sure how that's quantifiable, since there is no real way of knowing what their potential income could have been absent the ability to get their content for free.

      I mean, I can admit freely that I've been a beneficiary of free content over the years, and the hundreds of dollars I've NOT spent are certainly small potatoes in a vacuum, but multiply me by a few million and that suddenly real money.

      All that said, I'd certainly never disagree publicly with a /. member with a nearly 3-digit member #, considering I'm a damn /. elder statesman with my low 6-digit one..:)

    5. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by Binkleyz · · Score: 1

      Yep, I'm a regular reader of Popehat, and he frequently links to the others you mention, and Prenda is an even MORE egregious user of these very same tactics.

    6. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by Binkleyz · · Score: 1

      Yes, totally agree, but also thinking that the net result may still be that the standard of what constitutes a tort (and again, IANAL, I just enjoy this sort of thing, so please forgive me if I'm using incorrect or imprecise language) in the case of file sharing might be shaped by the larger question of who may be sued.

      If a file fragment is not enough to sustain an action against a downloader, wouldn't that also raise a 12(6)(b) question?

    7. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 2

      As I said, the decision has nothing to do with how much copying makes it a copyright infringement. It has to do with the fact that there is no evidence that John Doe copied anything from anybody.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    8. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by Binkleyz · · Score: 1

      I think we're agreeing on the same thing, just in different ways.. :)

      To this point, it seems like many courts in the past have accepted at face value that there is SOME linkage between an IP address and a person, so unless this one MJs decision becomes binding or is made a precedent across more than the EDNY, wouldn't the next logical question be to ask what actually constitutes illegal file sharing?

      In other words, if some other court somewhere accepts (seemingly without any actual evidence) that there is a link between 10.1.1.1 and Joe Smith, but ALSO notes that mere possession of a file fragment does not constitute an action for which relief may be granted, doesn't it moot the suit anyway?

    9. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      Trying to argue with high profits by speculating that they might have made even more? At best you are arguing that they don't need copyright protection because they are doing just fine without it stopping piracy. And I would agree with you.

      But there is a more fundamental error in your argument. You are, in fact, begging the question. That is, you are relying on an unproven assumption that there was in fact more money to be made. That is bad enough to end the case, but your unproven assumption is also wrong.

      Money is not an unlimited resource. In fact, each person has a fairly limited quantity of it at their disposal. So the only way that the MAFIA could possibly have made more money is if it had been allocated differently. For example, if instead of spending $50 to go to a theater I pirate the movie and it at home (using resources already funded) and put the money into savings instead. By the MAFIA argument I would have just stolen $50 from them -- but unless I never spend the money it is really just a deferred expenditure.

      Of course the reality is that no one does what I just proposed. In point of fact, people have fixed costs that are required for living (rent, property tax, groceries, etc.) with the remainder being disposable income. And, immediately or later, that gets spent. And it gets spent on luxury items, whether that is a beer you drink at home (stealing money from a bar by not drinking there), going out to watch a movie, eat in a restaurant, etc.

      Now, there is room for some shuffling here. Perhaps Peter prefers eating in restaurants while Paul prefers watching movies. From a strictly economic perspective there is no difference between the two, whether or not none, one or both engage in piracy.

      People make financial decisions as to whether or not they can afford to see a movie or fly to the Bahamas for vacation, but piracy is not a financial decision unless they are paying for it. And the Internet connections are a sunk cost: you pay for the connection whether or not you are downloading music and movies. The absolute closest you could get would be a claim that higher bandwidth connections are absorbing the displaced cost of buying a movie. To demonstrate the lost money would require identifying (or at least having a good approximation) of how much money was spent on upgrading Internet connection speeds for the sole purpose of piracy.

      The bottom line is people aren't upgrading Internet connections to enable piracy, and even if they were the amount of money is so small compared to how much money the MAFIA grosses that it would not significantly alter the outcome.

    10. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      ummmm... you might actually try reading what he wrote. Mighty big of you to say that he agrees with what you are saying.

    11. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 1

      ummmm... you might actually try reading what he wrote. Mighty big of you to say that he agrees with what you are saying.

      Thank you for so astutely reading that thread; I thought maybe I was losing my mind :) I keep disagreeing with him, and he keeps saying we're on the same page :)

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    12. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by sjames · · Score: 1

      Of course, you have to also consider the probability that many of those copied media would never have been a sale. Either the person didn't have the money or didn't value it as high as the price.

    13. Re: Thanks for this, NYCL! by Binkleyz · · Score: 1

      I did read the post, the article and also several of the legal document that undergird this entire thing. I agree that there is ZERO basis for the suit in the first place, as there is no connection between the ip and the person. But I also note that several courts have allowed cases to proceed despite all of that, which is what I apparently am incapable of articulating in a way that resonates with anyone but me. So, I apologize for deigning to imagine that I could grasp the complexities here, and will return to my lurking, never to thank anyone for anything here ever again, since apparently l am not nearly as clever as I thought.

    14. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      IANAL

      I know it's childish, but I can't help sniggering when someone posts this in a thread about porn films.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    15. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention the phrase "Well oiled". :)

    16. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by Binkleyz · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, money is fungible.

      But that fungibility does not alter the fact that the funds went to someone other than the studio/actors/crew/etc.

      As you note, at the end of the day, the input is the same, but the path that input takes just HAS to have some impact, doesn't it?

    17. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      an inability to comprehend what you read doesn't slow you down, does it?

      But I'll try again anyway:

      You have to prove your assertion, otherwise you are begging the question. I demonstrated how -- even if you stretch and reach for it -- any impact would be negligible. You essentially assert that negligible is the same as having effect and try to rest your case. Hmmm...

      So you are completely fine with an assertion that someone who pirates music will gain exposure to new artists and then buy music from ones they are interested in? That will necessarily have *some* effect on increasing sales and therefore profit so piracy is good for the MAFIA, right? Surely you can agree with this as it is essentially the same as your argument.

      You must also be completely fine with the assertion that some pirates do so explicitly for the purpose of "trying before buying" and will consequently spend based on the trials. As companies are known to offer "try before buy" deals this must obviously result in *some* increase in sales and as *some* pirates are using it in this fashion then there must be *some* positive impact on sales.

      But feel free to actually concoct an argument that does not rely on fallacy. Go ahead.

    18. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by Binkleyz · · Score: 1

      Well I guess that's the part I'm not understanding. You're saying that my decision to pirate a CD rather than buying it, with its $10 (or whatever) loss to the studio system, has zero impact on their bottom line?

    19. Re:Thanks for this, NYCL! by sjames · · Score: 1

      If you don't have the $10 to spare for it (often true of teens and early 20s who are the largest market for music) then downloading a copy changed nothing for the copyright holder. If you didn't think it was worth $10, you wouldn't have bought it, but you might download it. Either way, they were never going to get $10 from you and you downloading the music doesn't change that.

  10. Re:wow 38% of copyright cases, 88% of IP, are Mali by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Correction: Someone in that household, or leeching that household's WiFi or someone with a hacked cable modem or someone at the ISP downloaded that content that they may or may not have known was copyrighted.

    Or due to a clerical error, perhaps it was another household.

  11. Re:wow 38% of copyright cases, 88% of IP, are Mali by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    I believe the lawsuits are for UPLOADING, not downloading content. Most likely naive users not realizing that all while they are downloading using BitTorrent, they are also uploading (seeding). Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't be punished for downloading copyrighted material, only for distributing it. Of course, one must wonder if sending someone one block out of a 100MB file is distribution or fair use.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  12. Re:wow 38% of copyright cases, 88% of IP, are Mali by thoromyr · · Score: 1

    Well, you asked so here it is: You're wrong (though not in a particularly meaningful way).

    You may (or may not) have noticed that copiers and copying services post rules about not reproducing copyrighted content. This is because copyright law gives the copyright holder control over who can distribute or reproduce a work. And making a photocopy is reproduction, even when it is not for distribution. When you download a copyrighted work you are reproducing it (making a copy) and that is not permitted.

    However, just making a copy does not particularly harm the copyright holder. If you make many copies and distribute them in competition then that is a more serious event. The penalties for distribution of copyrighted materials are consequently greater.

    It is also easier to catch and prosecute a distributor. When Paul uses the office copier to run off a copy of a book so he doesn't have to buy it -- how do you catch him? But when Peter mass produces the book and sells it in a store front -- well, that's easy.

    Consequently, most of the attention revolves around questions of distribution. Simple reproduction is illegal, but is a lesser crime that is difficult to detect and generally less prosecutable.

  13. Re:wow 38% of copyright cases, 88% of IP, are Mali by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, you asked so here it is: You're wrong (though not in a particularly meaningful way).

    You may (or may not) have noticed that copiers and copying services post rules about not reproducing copyrighted content. This is because copyright law gives the copyright holder control over who can distribute or reproduce a work. And making a photocopy is reproduction, even when it is not for distribution. When you download a copyrighted work you are reproducing it (making a copy) and that is not permitted.

    Not entirely correct. US federal law does in fact explicitly provide a right to make copies of copyrighted content (in whole or in part) under certain circumstances. It's call Fair Use (Title 17 U.S. Code Section 107).

    This comes about because the 9th and 10th Amendment limit what the federal government can do, by providing for unspecified rights "retained by the people" (9th Amendment) and "reserved to the people" (10th Amendment). James Madison made the Bill of Rights open-ended in this fashion because the anti-federalists pointed out that any finite list of rights would turn out to be incomplete. It was such an important point that he made sure it appeared twice in the Bill of Rights, the only issue to do so.

    In a free country, any form of reasonable conduct is necessarily protected conduct, and thus in the USA reasonable conduct becomes a right protected by the 9th and 10th Amendments. The right to engage in reasonable conduct is a right retained by the people, and reserved to them. Making reasonable copies, as a form of reasonable conduct, is thus a protected right.

    Any legal professional making a statement to the contrary would be engaged in unethical practice of law, since giving the legal system the ability to interfere with reasonable conduct creates an artificial demand for the services of legal professionals. Thus, as the right to ethical practice of law also comes into play under the 9th and 10th Amendments, the right to make reasonable copies is protected on multiple levels by these Amendments.

    Unfortunately, the rules for determining when something is fair use (or when it is reasonable to copy something) are not particularly clear. There is some case law, but it isn't governing because ultimately it's up to the people (by definition) to decide what rights are "retained by" or "reserved to" them. No court, not even the Supreme Court, has the final say here (and if they tried to claim that they did, they would be in violation of the oaths they swear to uphold the Bill of Rights, oaths that are preconditions for holding those positions; further, creating or sustaining contradictions in the legal system always involves unethical practice of law).

    In practice, like many aspects of the law, the system is confusing and arguably contradictory, which has many negative consequences for society. This creates problems by allowing lawyers without integrity to abuse the legal system. It's not just the Malibu lawyers who are doing this, but also many others, and the abuses that happen are not limited to stealing a portion of people's lives (not very different from kidnapping them at gunpoint, when one thinks about it) by making invalid subpoenas and copyright lawsuits.

    Aaron Swartz, for example, died because of the unwillingness of a federal prosecutor to act ethically and in accordance of his oath to uphold the Bill of Rights: whether or not he did anything wrong in making copies as he did, the prosecutor clearly did not take 9th and 10th Amendment issues into consideration and thus violated his oath to uphold the Bill of Rights.

    Unfortunately, misconduct on the part of legal professionals is quite common. As a class in society, they are in a position of ethical conflict of interest with respect to the nature, scope, and form of the law, and with respect to how it is enforced. This ethical conflict of interest has not been handled well, historically speaking.