Slashdot Mirror


Author Joris Luyendijk: Economics Is Not a Science (theguardian.com)

The Real Dr John writes: A Nobel prize in economics, awarded this year to Angus Deaton, implies that the human world operates much like the physical world: that it can be described and understood in neutral terms, and that it lends itself to modeling, like chemical reactions or the movement of the stars. It creates the impression that economists are not in the business of constructing inherently imperfect theories, but of discovering timeless truths. In 1994 economists Myron Scholes and Robert Merton, with their work on derivatives, seemed to have hit on a formula that yielded a safe but lucrative trading strategy. In 1997 they were awarded the Nobel prize in economics. A year later, Long-Term Capital Management lost $4.6bn (£3bn) in less than four months; a bailout was required to avert the threat to the global financial system.

15 of 375 comments (clear)

  1. It should be obvious by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Economics is not a science. It is a study of human behavior like Psychology, and as the article points out, it has heavy political overtones. There was no Nobel Prize in Economics until 1969. Maybe it is time to retire that particular prize.

    --
    A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    1. Re:It should be obvious by schneidafunk · · Score: 4, Informative

      Psychology is a science, although a fairly new one.

      --
      Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
    2. Re:It should be obvious by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you broaden your definition of science to include all fields of human investigation, sure. But if you mean a science like biochemistry or physics, where you do controlled experiments, then no, it is not a hard science. Some people differentiate "hard" from "soft" sciences. OK, by that definition economics could be considered a soft science. But as the author of the article points out, there is much more political bias in "economics research" than in most sciences (where some bias is often unavoidable, but still can be manageable with proper controls). Really, economics is the study of trends in economic activity, but often strays into making pronouncements on political policy, which seems an awful lot more like politics than science.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    3. Re:It should be obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Economics is a huge field, encompassing mathematics, experimental science, and other methodologies.

      Most papers in biology aren't reproducible, either. There's plenty of bad science and improper application of theory to go around in academia. Although I think economics is especially prone to bad methodologies and poor application, largely because it seems more accessible than it really is. Neither the public nor scholars are sufficiently skeptical and rigorous in their treatment of economics.

      The irony is that this fact is reflected in how casually people dismiss the field of economics. Maybe if people understood the limitations to modern scholarship, and how much hype there is in many fields, economics wouldn't look so bad.

      I would also point out that medicine as practiced by most physicians is not a science either. They use the fruits of science, but their field is based on an entirely different method of knowledge acquisition and application. Yet we don't regularly fault doctors for being "unscientific". Nonethleless there's plenty of science undergirding modern medicine, and plenty of physicians increasingly using scientific methodologies to improve their practice. Notably, these days most Nobel Prizes in Physiology or Medicine are awarded not to M.Ds, but to Ph.Ds for their discovery of physiological mechanisms.

      LIkewise, the Nobel Prize in Economics (which we all understand is a recent creation not in Nobel's original trust) don't go out to random people. They tend to be awarded to economists who's theory was solidly grounded in mathematics, not for the punditry and application you are so often exposed to in the media. You should actually read the works. It's fascinating stuff. But it also shows how huge the gulf still is from theory to application. Not unlike as with physiology and medicine.

      Also, you've failed to explain why human behavior, in both the particular and the aggregate, isn't governed by natural laws. Psychology has rightly earned a bad reputation for poor science. But the reason why Freud is so famous is because he was one of the first people to posit that human behavior was grounded in the physical world, is susceptible to rigorous description using scientific methodologies, generate theories based on those ideas, and create a protocol for applying them. Before Freud few people had done all of those things. Apparently not even you have made that _enormous_ leap in thinking.

    4. Re:It should be obvious by KGIII · · Score: 3, Funny

      There's the old joke about the gynecologist who quit working as a doctor and went to school to become a mechanic. The final test comes and he's working for hours. He finally finishes and the instructor comes over and tells him that he has passed even though it took him an extra eight hours. The gynecologist cum mechanic asks why that's a problem. The instructor tells him that while he did a fine job that's the first time he's ever seen anyone do an engine swap through the exhaust pipe.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  2. It's a fuzzy science by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's a fuzzy science, similar to cooking.

    Sometimes you try stuff, make predictions, and it turns out great.

    Sometimes you try stuff, make predictions, and it's dreadful. Like my famous "Peanut Butter & Haggis" recipe, or pickle-flavored ice cream.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  3. It's not even a real Nobel Prize by Qzukk · · Score: 4, Informative

    Nobel didn't originally accept economics as a science either, this economist won the Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel, which was originally provided by the Swedish bank in 1968 through a perpetual endowment to the Nobel Foundation.

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    1. Re:It's not even a real Nobel Prize by xpiotr · · Score: 5, Funny

      As Dilbert so gently points out http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-...

  4. Rocket analogy by Noah+Haders · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When a rocket blows up, it might be the engineers' fault, but you can't blame physics itself. It's not the fault of the field of economics that some bozo lost money and other bozos bailed them out.

  5. People who think economics is not a science... by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People who think economics is not a science usually have no understanding of economics. The author, for example, uses examples of economists (and non-economists) who failed to predict what direction the market would go. This is like saying, "Physics is not science because we still don't have FTL travel. Fail."

    Economics is a science, and it has a useful body of knowledge. MV = PQ is among the most tested theories in science. Gresham's law. The business cycle. All other things equal, an increase in supply will reduce prices. The biggest problem of economics isn't the lack of "hardness," it's the difficulty of running experiments (you can't re-run the depression six hundred times), so eliminating variables is difficult.

    Anyone who thinks economics is the art of predicting the stock market, will be confused, like the author of this article.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:People who think economics is not a science... by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not sceince if you never do any experiments.

      That's the same argument against climate science, right? "You can't run CO2 experiments on multiple earths, because we only have one of them."

      The reality though, is that both climate science and economics do run experiments. They can't run every experiment they'd like to, but that's a problem with every field of science.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  6. Re: Weep for humanity. by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Economics is a social "science". Because it involves money, it feels more quantitative and objective, like an actual science. But it is a social science, arbitrary numbers have been assigned to ill defined metrics, and a delusion is formed. Perhaps those arbitrary assignments are the result of a real competitive process, left to anneal for a period of time, but that's just a further level of self-deception. We cling to these things individually because it is the best we've got socially, but at no level in the universe can you establish the value of an orange at X resources/unit, it's therefore impossible to build any kind of universal truth around a system that is fundamentally based on that sort of value assignment.

    So when the talking heads start talking about economics, and making predictions and saying the sky is falling if {such and such}, it is ok to laugh and walk away. We'll make it work or we won't and it'll change.

  7. Re: Weep for humanity. by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In fact, the last time the US saw deflation was a period we now refer to as The Great Depression.

    But not because of the deflation. The cause of the Depression was a widespread credit contraction, following an illusory boom—actually malinvestment, encouraged and masked by inflation—which resulted in a "house of cards": lots of investment profit on paper with nothing real to back it up. When the bills came due and people tried to pull "their" money out, they suddenly discovered that they didn't have nearly as much money as they thought; their savings accounts consisted mostly of IOUs from bankrupt banks. That was the cause, both of the deflation and the Depression. Deflation was merely a side-effect.

    In other cases where deflation has been observed internationally, it has not been correlated with anything like the American Great Depression.

    --
    "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
  8. Re: Weep for humanity. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Here's the example that disproves the claim: Everyone knows that when it comes to electronics, next year's model is going to be better/faster/more bang for the buck than this years' model, but the electronics industry isn't starving to death because of everyone sitting on the sidelines and refusing to buy devices because they'll get more for their money in the future.

    It does no such thing, Yes, everyone does know, but some people need something now, and so buy it now. Pre-announcing has actually been shown to effect sales, just ask Adam Osbourne:

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

    Or perhaps ask Pebble and/or Motorola about their sales numbers when the Apple Watch was announced.

    Inflation benefits governments and other profligate borrowers. Deflation benefits savers (and everyone else, to a lesser extent.)

    Yeah, like people with mortgages. As for savers, have you looked at the savings rate over the last few decades (at least in North America)?

  9. Re: Weep for humanity. by Carewolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Inflation benefits governments and other profligate borrowers. Deflation benefits savers (and everyone else, to a lesser extent.)

    Precisely this. For my part, this fairly obvious fact is highly likely to account for why inflation is never allowed to stop. Cynical? You bet.

    You know 99% of people are not 1%ers right? That means they owe more than they own so benefitting from inflation and even the rich don't worry about inflation because they invest and investments follow inflation. Only idiots with money in mattresses are hurt by inflation.