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Orange County Developer To Install Tesla Batteries In Two Dozen Buildings (computerworld.com)
Lucas123 writes: The Irvine Company, a Newport Beach-based real estate developer that is a dominant landlord in Orange County, plans to install Tesla commercial batteries in two dozen of its buildings around Irvine Spectrum and John Wayne Airport. The project is the first of its kind of that size. The batteries will charge during non-peak hours and distribute power to the buildings during peak hours, a process that's expected to save the developer up to 10% of its energy costs or about $1 million a year.
Any why Tesla Batteries? There are other batteries out there (like Alevo) that cost less and are made to handle a greater amount of cycling for this very purpose. This is just a big PR 'look at how wonderful we are' boondoggle.
They'll probably get federal tax money.. that is what really pisses me off. Give my money to some person in need instead.
$30M to install? I'm seeing roughly $600k, at $25k per pop, per building.
The thing to remember about commercial building electric rates is that you not only pay a charge based on electrical usage, but also a 'peak power demand' surcharge. By reducing any peaks in power usage, it saves money on their bills.
If it saves anywhere near $1M/year, a roughly $1M investment is a foolish bargain to refuse.
I don't read AC A human right
This is a great example of peak shaving.
In a nutshell, peak shaving is the process of reducing the amount of energy purchased from the utility company during peak hours when the charges are highest. Many businesses are paying for their electricity consumption on a time-of-use basis. Peak demand charges typically apply to electricity consumed from noon to 6:00 p.m. while lesser charges apply to the rest of the day. This rate trend mirrors demand, which typically peaks during these hours of the day. The great thing about solar electricity panels is that they produce most of their energy during these peak hours. Your business can offset their highest costing electricity with solar and only pay for the lower costing energy used during off peak times.
What isn't mentioned in the quote is another way that this saves money, which works even if your electric company doesn't offer a discount during off-peak hours. The transmission charges on an electric bill are typically based on the prior year's peak usage number times the rate for your transmission-based charges (this is true in the PJM and MISO footprints, I can't vouch for other areas). So if you can reduce your maximum usage kilowatts in a given year, the following year your charges will be lower.
Not only that but, how will we dispose of them? Send them back to China?
Where does it say taxpayer money is being used? Article mentions a commercial developer. And the Powerwall should last 5000 cycles, I can't find anything specific to the Powerpack though.
The Irvine Company is a commercial company not the government. What Orange County taxes are you talking about?
I'm sure Orange County residents are fine with wise use of tax money. It will cost over 30 million to install, it might save up to a million per year.
How long is that battery life?
How is this a use of tax money? A private company installing something that they think will save them money? Or maybe they are reselling electricity to their tenants and this will generate revenue. Of course I did not read the article very closely, so I could be wrong. Please correct me if I am.
But it is an investment in the future just like paying more for a Prius when an Echo is cheaper to buy and cheaper to repair.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program
And much cheaper to operate. You can buy a heck of a lot of gas for what I just paid for the new battery for my Prius.
Indeed, it would be much better spent on things like improving reading comprehension.
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And much cheaper to operate. You can buy a heck of a lot of gas for what I just paid for the new battery for my Prius.
I've always looked at that tradeoff. We're thinking about replacing my wife's car within the next couple of years. Saw a '95 Buick Roadmaster with 30,000 miles on it for like $7,000. I did the math and estimated high on the cost of fuel (which penalizes the Buick more than a new 300, for example) and it would take something like 140,000 miles to hit the break-even point before a more efficient car costs less.
Admittedly, there is a reduction in safety equipment in the Buick, but that Roadmaster is a very nice sedan for that kind of money.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
You don't think they'll get huge tax gifts? If not, then more power to them.
There are probably incentives from the local power company, also a private company not a government entity.
If there are tax breaks they would be state based, not county based, and would be little different from taxpayers subsidizing every solar panel a homeowner puts on their roof, etc.
"More power", yes. Because during peak hours where these batteries are going to be active is when buildings in Orange County have experience the occasional power outages. So reducing their draw during these hours is a benefit to the larger Orange County community.
I've noticed these coming a common topic amongst developers in Southern California. I've had a few ask me about this, just this week. Assuming this isn't just a flavor of the week (what happened to bloom boxes) my question is will the power company always tune there billing in such a way that makes this profitable. Realistically the buildings will utilize the same amount of power, but the peak loads will level out. in short Edison gets less money for the same kilo watts. How long will they let this fly before they begin adjusting there billing metric.
or the whole "off peak" thing will disappear. the grid will run at constant, and increasing, capacity full time. the first casualty however, will be any cost benefits for "off peak" charging.
The early adopters can greenwash and maybe make a case though.
The Irvine Company is a commercial company not the government. What Orange County taxes are you talking about?
Around here, The Irvine Company's power is such that it might as well be the government.
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For those that don't know. The Irvine Company IS the city of Irvine, CA. It's one of the largest cities in Orange County, CA.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
Do the numbers really work for this? If they do, why isn't the power company buying up Tesla's production for the foreseeable future?
The Irvine Company is a commercial company not the government. What Orange County taxes are you talking about?
Around here, The Irvine Company's power is such that it might as well be the government.
Worse, more like a homeowner's association, which kind of makes sense since they are nearly everyone's landlord. Here are the three acceptable shades of beige you may paint your buildings. Here are the two types of outdoor metal tables and chairs you have outside your restaurant. You may think I am joking ... but that just tells us you have not visited Irvine.
If not, this is a waste, like changing dollars to euros and back again. You will consume more on the long run.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
They are not the city, but they do control the city.
The reason there are incentives for Orange County is the decommissioning of San Onofre nuclear power plant. That area is now short peak capacity especially, but also base load to a degree. The transmission lines out of San Onofre primarily feed to Orange County and don't have nearly as much import capacity.
Batteries are cost effective at $200/kW. I assume the incentives cover the delta in cost. Chilled water or ice thermal storage is much cheaper, but Irvine Company has a lot of buildings without chilled water systems (although not so much in that particular area).
It is an inefficient solution though; on-site generation would be much more cost effective and energy efficient.
OK, it only has 30K miles on it.. but even just due to being old, won't it have _some_ more maintenance than a newer car?
more power to them.
As it were.
Give my money to some person in need instead.
Can't. They're poor, they deserve to suffer, it's God's Will.
You don't think they'll get huge tax gifts?
In Orange County? Where the airport is name after John Wayne, and Ronald Reagan is considered a demigod? I don't think so.
About four years ago I bought a '95 Impala SS with 6,421 miles on it. It still has its original belt and hoses. The LT1 engine powers the water pump off of the snout of the cam, no belt. The cooling fans are electric. I'm up to about 30,000 miles on the Impala, no significant problems. Had to replace a broken antiswaybar bushing on one of the end links. It'll need a new power antenna, it's stuck. That's the bulk of it.
I expect that a Roadmaster (same car under the sheet metal) would behave much the same way.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Because during peak hours where these batteries are going to be active is when buildings in Orange County have experience the occasional power outages. So reducing their draw during these hours is a benefit to the larger Orange County community.
You are spot on with this. As an employee of a company who is in an Irvine Company building that is going to get these batteries, I can attest to the power outages and mandatory rationing that we are subject to. They are not too invasive and so far have amounted to little more than no building A/C after 5pm. I had to contend with much worse rationing working at a non-profit in downtown LA who had heavily discounted power.
So if everyone starts charging their electrical storage devices (batteries, cars, etc.) during off-peak hours, how long before the off-peak hours become peak hours?
I mean, they make sense in a car, because they are light, but for a building a lead-acid battery would make more sense, wouldn't it?
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
And your supermodel wife's shoes.
Right.
You need new batteries on a Prius roughly every 100-150,000 miles. And the old battery is still worth nearly half the new one because it is recycled to a new one cheaply which is then sold on at the full price.
Since nuclear can't produce for peak, the loss of the nuclear plant cannot be the cause if lack of peak is the problem.
Last time I went through Orange County I didn't see a single Tesla.
Are they sure they have the right market for this?
Us Floridians can get easily confused, what with the heat and all,
Seems we get a slashvertisement every day pimping one or another of his businesses - Tesla, SpaceX, SolarCity.
It is the cause when your gas turbines are being used to supply base load instead of topping off at peak.
I grew up there. The Irvine Company owns Orange County, so buying those Powerwalls is for them like us dropping by Frys for a pack of AA cells.
It is really wicked that the wealthiest state in the nation can not provide quality, electrical services. One would think that California would have by far the best electrical supply in the nation. God bless Tesla! The Tesla organization is doing wonderful work.
But I thought we'd 3D print fusion reactors with helium-3 from the Moon!??
It is really wicked that the wealthiest state in the nation can not provide quality, electrical services. One would think that California would have by far the best electrical supply in the nation.
Replying as AC because I modded the parent.
Is it really that big of a mystery? Which political party has ruled California for the majority of the last few decades? And which political party refuses to build new power plants?
Ronald Reagan? The ACTOR??
Wish I had mod points. Your comment is not only insightful, it is quite understated. That company has a hand in everything in south Orange County.
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Nuclear produces around the clock, which includes the peak portion of the day.
The jew trolls are most the comments. A lot of the comments don't even say anything but they are voted up. Very obvious.
Po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe.