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Getting Over Getting Over Uber: Tim O'Reilly Does the Math

Susan Crawford yesterday published at Medium a critique of Uber and similar ride-coordinating services, in the form of a kind of paean to the American taxicab. Though she didn't start out with negative feelings for Uber, Crawford writes, her sentiment has swung away from objections to taxis (such as that they seek unfair protection from competition) to an extravagant defense, though it comes with a long list of "shoulds": "[Cities] should be focusing on making their taxi services better," she writes. "Taxis should be more accessible to everyone. Taxi fares should be low, predictable, and uniform. Taxi geographies should be wide. Taxis should be clean, fuel-efficient, driven by trustworthy, well-trained drivers, and available for frictionless electronic hailing." Even with the flaws that list implies, Crawford's description of how well taxis work now is more positive than I've found to be true: "Their rates are regulated and set; their pricing is transparent and can be double-checked (just look at the meter, which is itself regularly tested); they look like a uniform fleet; they are subject to very strict licensing and safety requirements. With rare exceptions, they don’t employ surge/congestion pricing schemes."

Tim O'Reilly has written a response, calling Crawford's arguments "puzzling and unconvincing." O'Reilly dissects some of the math behind the business of driving others for money, as it applies to both conventional taxi drivers and "gig economy" drivers, as well as some of the qualitative effects of ride-dispatch services; surely some readers will take issue with his figures and examples, but they provide a plausible case for doubting Crawford's rosy picture of taxis and dark view of modern app-dispatched rides. O'Reilly writes: "Regulation is not a good in itself. It is a means of achieving public goods. And so far, it is pretty clear that Uber and Lyft (and in particular, the competition between them) are improving the transportation options in American cities. Regulators should be using the opportunity to revisit the old way of doing things rather than trying to make the new conform to outdated rules that no longer serve their purpose."

16 of 385 comments (clear)

  1. "I did not start off being anti-Uber." by russotto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...but then a taxi lobbyist dropped a big bag of Benjamins on my desk, and what's a blogger to do?

    1. Re: "I did not start off being anti-Uber." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I didn't care about Uber till slashdot started posting stories about it for money. Now I am anti-Uber, anti-slashdot.

    2. Re:"I did not start off being anti-Uber." by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Do you have evidence to support that claim?

      Basically her argument is that taxis are good, and the only problem with them is that they need to be completely different than they are now. No one with an interest in maintaining their credibility would say something so stupid and incoherent of their own free will. Ergo, she is being paid.

    3. Re:"I did not start off being anti-Uber." by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Funny

      To be honest, I'm not really sure what is trying to say here. Does anyone here get it?

      She is saying that paying a fixed fare for a taxi ride is a fundamental human right, unlike food or medicine, and therefore government management of the market is justified.

  2. You know who does that already... Uber by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Taxis should be more accessible to everyone. Taxi fares should be low, predictable, and uniform. Taxi geographies should be wide. Taxis should be clean, fuel-efficient, driven by trustworthy, well-trained drivers, and available for frictionless electronic hailing.

    Congratulations, you just described Uber, and now understand why it exists.

    The only thing limiting availability of Uber in fact, is governments and taxi cartels you seek to improve... if taxis could be any of those things, why aren't they already since they have had decades longer to do so? If you think the "city" can make the taxis into those things, look around at the barley kept -up infrastructure and crumbling streets and answer the hard question of how they could do that one thing well when so many other things have been done poorly.

    If wishes were horses I wouldn't need taxis OR Uber, but they aren't so I do

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:You know who does that already... Uber by preaction · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Surge pricing is exactly the opposite of low, predictable, and uniform.

  3. Said it before by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Interesting

    say it again. It's not the service, it's how they treat their employees, e.g. by calling them contractors to get out of paying for their Health Care, Unemployment, tax and other benefits (as well as their commercial insurance and proper background checks). Right now Uber is externalizing all those costs. Either onto the driver or eventually society (since we more or less don't just let people die in a gutter in this country, yet...). Their entire business model falls apart as soon as those costs aren't externalized. Look at all the 'Uber for...' companies and how quickly they shut down when their told that they have to treat people who are a core part of their buiness as employees...

    Uber is a race to the bottom and a sign capitalism is starting to break down...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Said it before by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Informative

      You shouldn't say that anymore, because taxi drivers aren't necessarily any better off. The guy in that story was on Medicaid, you were paying for the taxi driver's healthcare.

      Personally, I don't think healthcare coverage should be related to employment at all. It really doesn't make sense for them to be tied together, and makes people afraid of quitting a lousy job that they hate.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Said it before by Moridineas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wait, you think most taxi drivers are employees with full benefits? Not so at all. So are the evil taxi companies just selfishly "externalizing" all their costs?

      See, e.g.:

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2014/04/16/new-york-court-guts-a-groundbreaking-health-care-fund-that-would-have-changed-taxi-drivers-lives/

      I took two Ubers a month ago in Minneapolis. The first driver was a young woman, an undergrad, studying computer science. She drives Uber about 15-20 hours a week to help cover college and living expenses. At 20 hours a week, she would not be eligible for full benefits anywhere.

      The second driver was a retired lawyer who drives Uber whenever he feels like it, to keep active and talk to people (we shared some law stories, so I'm quite sure he was telling the truth about being a lawyer--not that *I'm* a lawyer!). He's retired and doesn't drive enough hours--or regularly enough--that any business in the country would consider him an employee.

      Small sample size, but pretty interesting.

      Uber drivers do not work set hours, have no obligation to Uber (other than completing a drive if they agree to start one), do not give two weeks notice when they quit, can work for the competition any time (simultaneously even!), etc. It baffles me that anyone would consider them employees.

    3. Re:Said it before by jcr · · Score: 4, Informative

      it's how they treat their employees, e.g. by calling them contractors

      They ARE contractors, you moron. They set their own hours, they go where they want to go, they don't have to rent a medallion, they're working when they turn on the app, and they're not working when they turn off the app. Uber is a booking agent, not an employer. Nobody puts a gun to anyone's head to get them to drive for Uber, and I've seen plenty of drivers who work with Uber, Sidecar and Lyft, and they're perfectly free to do that.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  4. Uber actually comes by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I generally avoided Uber, but last year I needed a taxi to get to the airport. I called two different taxi companies, and neither one had any taxis available to pick me up. Uber came right away, and was cheaper than a taxi.

    Generally it's easier to get an Uber than a taxi, unless you're right in the middle of a big city. And it will be a long time before traditional taxi companies get their game together enough to equal that.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:Uber actually comes by Moridineas · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I generally avoided Uber, but last year I needed a taxi to get to the airport. I called two different taxi companies, and neither one had any taxis available to pick me up. Uber came right away, and was cheaper than a taxi.

      I had the exact same experience. I've ridden Uber exactly three times. The first was after I tried getting a taxi to the airport in a medium-sized city around 3pm on a weekday. 45 minutes before a taxi would show, plus some kind of surcharge for the hour--was going to be like $35, pre-tip. Uber arrived in about 45 seconds and was $18. I even tipped the guy a $5 because he carried 3 of us and he picked up our suitcases...

  5. Re:I don't care about Uber by x0ra · · Score: 4, Insightful

    then stfu, don't read the article, and go get a life. it's not as if you had a gun pointed to your head making you read this stuff.

  6. "Regulation is not a good in itself." by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Regulation is not a good in itself."

    I wish more people realized that. How many times have you seen people arguing, one side saying, "Regulation is bad!" and the other "Regulation is good!" It's one of the dumbest arguments ever, because both sides are wrong.

    Some regulation is good, and some regulation is bad. If you want to know which is which, you need to actually look at the regulation itself.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  7. In the US only by aepervius · · Score: 5, Informative

    In western europe for example, taxi are geographically widespread (for example in germany they are forced to take negative value fare in remote area), their price is regulated but uber is not and uber DO surge pricing. So taxi fare is uniform and predictable (low is a question of perspective). Taxi are driven by trustworthy driver , german regulation make sure of insurance (commercial) is there and there is a test in many country. Uber not so much. Taxi are accessible to everyone as over a zone some country imposes a minimum number of accessible handicapped taxi. All of those Uber does not really do. We even have in germany an apps on smartphone to hail taxi (at least in my region). Uber DO LIE on pretending there is driver nearby. Uber bombed with fake request their rival. Both of which would be a fraud in germany for example. take off the pink glasses in many countries in western europe Uber is not so great , it is only a newcomer which want to break laws to its disadvantage, laws mostly protecting consumer NOT taxi.

    Now we know that US law are often corporate blowjobs (dealership, taxi medaillion etc..). But Uber is not so great either. What do you think will happen if taxi get deregulated ? Well i will tell you : the most common minimum denominator that's what will happen.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  8. Re:Strange Arguments by felrom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Taxi's can't offer guaranteed service at certain locations and times precisely because they do not use the author's dreaded "surge/congestion pricing schemes."

    When your professional society conference lets out at the same time that the local sportsball team's game gets over, and everyone is headed downtown to eat, the taxi company runs out of cabs because they're all cheap and everyone takes one. Uber surges the price to match the market demand, more drivers come out, and everyone who wants a ride can get one.

    Under the pure cartel taxi system, if you need to get to the hospital because your wife called and she's gone into labor early, too bad! All the cabs are taken because they're so cheap and the demand is so high. Under Uber's system, the price rises to match the demand and you can pay for a ride.

    It's no different than when people decry "price gauging" after a natural disaster. Go ahead and keep gas at pre-disaster prices, and 100% of it will sell out. Then, if you MUST have it, say to run your generator to power grandma's oxygen machine, too bad! It was all sold for $2/gal to a bunch of people who panicked and drank it all up even though they really didn't need it. If the gas stations had surged pricing to match demand, they'd be more likely to have some left, and while it would be very expensive, at least it would be available for people who really needed it, instead of being consumed by people who merely panic-purchased because it was still cheap.

    Uber's surge pricing system is a virtue of their business model, not a vice.