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Noise Protests Close Paris Data Center (datacenterdynamics.com)

judgecorp writes: Data center firm Interxion has been ordered to close a data center in Paris over protests from residents. The local group complained about noise and large quantities of stored diesel fuel at the site, saying that the consultation which allowed it to open in 2012 was flawed. Now Interxion's license has been revoked and it has two months to appeal

157 comments

  1. Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by ZorinLynx · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Who is going to pay for relocation and construction costs for a new facility? If they were given the go ahead to build in 2012, revoking that now surely means they shouldn't have to pay for the relocation costs?

    How about making the people who complained pay for it? They don't seem to understand the concept of living in a big city and that you sometimes have to deal with other people, commercial activity and noise. If they don't want that they should move to the countryside.

    1. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by TWX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It probably depends on where the cited flaws in the original assessment were found. If it's demonstrated that noise and other nuisances associated with the study were downplayed by the company that owns the datacenter, then they'll probably simply be on the hook. If an outside company did the assessment and screwed it up, if France requires companies to post bonds for this kind of work, then their bond will be pulled.

      Either way, if the operating conditions of the datacenter don't match what was promised to the neighborhood and licensed, it should not be the neighborhood's responsibility to put up with it.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      I doubt that anyone disclosed the use of large diesel generators in a residential neighborhood. If they made that clear at the outset, they wouldn't have gotten a go ahead.

    3. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by gnupun · · Score: 1

      Maybe they'll convert the data center into something less noisy and recover some of their losses. Isn't it common sense not to run noisy generators near residential areas? It's the company's fault for not being diligent.

    4. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      The community college in my neighborhood is in the process of replacing 50-year-old buildings. The old baseball field in the middle of campus was closed. City council and neighbors approved a baseball field next to the neighborhood. Which was fine until the 80-foot-tall poles for the nets to capture the baseballs went up, creating an instant eyesore. That little detail got left out of the scaled model that everyone saw. The poles came down, the new baseball field became a new soccer field for the campus and neighborhood teams, and the baseball team plays at the minor baseball stadium until a permanent solution can be found.

    5. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Tailhook · · Score: 1

      Who is going to pay for relocation and construction costs for a new facility?

      The suckers that were stupid enough to invest in a Paris facility. You don't want your investment erased by The Powers That Be? Stay the hell away from such places. The young have figured it out. Indulging an anti-business mentality has consequences.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    6. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by sims+2 · · Score: 0

      Why would they need to run generators at all is the city's power grid that crap that they would need to run them all the time?

      Yes I know they should be started and run for a while at least once a week as or so as part of standard maintenance practice but diesels are for emergency power. The once weekly test should not be an issue.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    7. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell, why are the generators even that loud?

      There's nothing stopping them from putting higher-quality mufflers, and adding other forms of sound dampening to the generator housings, and putting up sound-blocking walls as well to address the complaints.

      It sounds like a contract supplier for generators wasn't told it was in a lower-noise neighborhood and just shipped the standard 'so noisy it needs ear protection even when INSIDE the building' version that eeks out 2% better fuel efficiency as a result.

      - WolfWings, too lazy to login to /. in years and years...

    8. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the US, the rules for noise and emissions from generators are generally pretty solid. If the summary is correct, their complaints are more noise and *quantity* of diesel storage on-site. The quantity shouldn't be an issue, although in the US we would generally try to use ballistic tanks if close to the property line or any sensitive locations.

      Noise can be a couple things-- cooling towers too close to the property line without any acoustic treatment, air cooled chillers without an acoustic screen wall... but the most annoying one is a procedural issue of testing (or operating) the generators in early morning hours.

      I had a project where we had a lynch mob ready at the gates while we were running a generator for 8 hours starting at 8AM on a Saturday. Never put a critical facility close to a wealthy neighborhood...

    9. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by sims+2 · · Score: 1

      Nets to catch base balls? Why? I have never seen such at that height. Normally just damages cars in the parking lot anyhow.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    10. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by NotDrWho · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How about making the people who complained pay for it?

      From what I understand the French in general, and Parisians in particular, complain about EVERYTHING--especially anything that involves change. Any company trying to do business there without knowing that ahead of time has only themselves to blame. If you tried to punish every Parisian who complained, you would have to turn the whole city into a jail.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    11. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I've seen 80-foot tall nets at a golf range next to a freeway. Can't have those birdies interfering with the evening commute.

    12. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      When I had to design a redundant power system I didn't chose diesel. We did disaster what if and determines liquid fuels like gasoline and diesel in emergencies is hard to come by.

      Natural gas on the other had would take an asteroid strike to potentially wipe that out. Plus if the road were taken out the gas would likely continue to flow. So natural gas it was to a 125kW generator.

    13. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but Paris isn't just some big city... it's the city of love, the city of lights. On an average day in Paris, you meet at least 1 great artist, a great philosopher and a world famous musician. great people have the right to complain loudly. people like you just don't get it....

    14. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      France is a notorious pain in the ass place to try to do business, and especially in Paris and especially for companies that aren't french. They would have probably gotten a warmer reception trying to build a high-rise apartment building in San Francisco.

    15. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet they liked the plumes of smoke from the Diesel generators while they warmed up every week. It wouldn't take long for a place like that to burn down "accidentally" if it were in my neighborhood. This is the reason from proper zoning laws.

    16. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a shame. Why don't you order some air strikes? That's normally how corporate USA deal with problems overseas, right?

    17. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Arkh89 · · Score: 2

      This quantity of fuel is treated as a potential risk in France and in the EU mostly due to industrial catastrophes such as Seveso (Italy) in 76 or AZF in 01. The zoning laws are now pretty strict for sites having large stocks of flammable/explosive materials. It also appears that this data-center has several aerial container.

      For the noise, my guess is that the court ruling is only temporary and will require the owner of the facility to shield the sources.

    18. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a project where we had a lynch mob ready at the gates while we were running a generator for 8 hours starting at 8AM on a Saturday. Never put a critical facility close to a wealthy neighborhood...

      ... or you could not be assholes, and run your 8 hour test starting at 9:30am on a weekday.

    19. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Natural gas on the other had would take an asteroid strike to potentially wipe that out.

      Or an earthquake. The same earthquake that takes out the electric grid. Oops.

    20. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      the concept of living in a big city and that you sometimes have to deal with other people, commercial activity and noise.

      There's also the converse which is that if you're doing anything in a big city, you have to be mindful that there are people living next door. If you can't adapt to that environment without making it worse for those who live around you, you should move to somewhere more suitable.

      I appreciate the Ameri-centric nature of Slashdot means many here have never lived in a (real) city, and their sole experience of one is watching a movie where sounds of sirens and car horns blowing is used to audibly signify that something is shot "at night, in a city" (one of many examples of Hollywood/TV having it in for cities, for some reason), but in the real world, virtually no cities - not even New York - sound like that, and the vast majority of cities, while never silent, are as quiet as suburbia during the evenings and nights.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    21. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by jbengt · · Score: 1

      . . . gasoline and diesel in emergencies is hard to come by.

      Natural gas on the other had would take an asteroid strike to potentially wipe that out.

      Or a small earthquake, which is often part of the reason diesel is chosen. Other reasons are cost and size. For a 125 kW generator that might not make that big a difference, but for large generators, it can be significant, though there's a trade-off with fuel storage. But that also depends on what length of time you are planning to use the generators - most outages last only hours, and if you're planning for one that lasts days, you should probably plan for switching to a back-up data center located elsewhere.

    22. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Tailhook · · Score: 1

      Any company trying to do business there without knowing that ahead of time has only themselves to blame.

      Exactly. No one should be compensated. Kick out the knuckleheads that invested in the site and give it to whatever pressure group from whom it will buy the most votes. Let all the other investors take a lesson from this; don't invest in anti-business libtard, operated cities.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    23. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who do you think you're kidding? Paris is a shithole, a sewer, a garbage dump.

    24. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're making the flawed assumption that the datacenter is actually noisy. Most of the noise complaints I've dealt with are complete, utter horseshit lodged by people who find joy in hurting others. Those people should be made to pay the victim's legal costs so that those few cases of a legitimate complaint rise above the noise floor.

    25. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      So, pretty much like suburban Americans who live in an HOA-controlled development then? ;-)

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    26. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

      in the US we would generally try to use ballistic tanks if close to the property line or any sensitive locations.

      I'd prefer the tanks were tethered securely to the ground.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    27. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      France is a notorious pain in the ass place to try to do business, and especially in Paris and especially for companies that aren't french. They would have probably gotten a warmer reception trying to build a high-rise apartment building in San Francisco.

      But the restaurants are great.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    28. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Who do you think you're kidding? Paris is a shithole, a sewer, a garbage dump.

      Not all of it. Like all cities there are nice bits and scummy bits.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    29. Re: Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, you know, put a damn muffler on the generator you cheap bastard's :)

    30. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their bribe^H campaign contribution cheque was too small.

    31. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "they should move to the countryside."

      Please no, I live in the countryside and its painful when city idiots move out into rural areas for "peace and quite" and instantly take to complaining about everything in sight. A family member has a small hobby farm, been there for over a decade. Suddenly some idiot moves in next door and starts complaining about the "loose" (free range) chickens and "underfed" (acres of pasture, daily slabs of hay, grain several times a week) horses. I have no problems when people seek a rural life, but they have to understand that it's not all fresh air and quite, there's dirt, there's animals, there's smell, there's noise, etc.

    32. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by headbulb · · Score: 1

      Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but a golf ball hitting a windshield going at highway speeds could cause quite the crash and potential death.

      Better safe then sorry.

    33. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Sure they are backup generators they do not run most of the time. Frankly the should never run except for short tests. They have the same type of setup as any Hospital does.
      Frankly I do not see why you would want to put these "edge" centers in cities. Is it that much cheaper than running dedicated fiber to one in a more rural or industrial area?

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    34. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      8 AM on a weekend is NOT an acceptable time to be making noise near ANY residential area, whether rich or poor. Are you so bloody daft to think otherwise? 9 AM or even 10 AM would be a more appropriate start.

    35. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They probably only have to build some noise walls if they failed to model the noise correctly during the permitting process, and prove to the fire and safety authorities of the proper handling of the fuel. Then it is responsibility of the authorities to convince the people.

    36. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Better safe then sorry.

      If you were safe there'd be no cause to be sorry at some later point in time.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    37. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Natural gas on the other had would take an asteroid strike to potentially wipe that out.

      Or an earthquake. The same earthquake that takes out the electric grid. Oops.

      Or construction. The same idiots who cut your electric line severed the gas line, too.

    38. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well that's not true, just depends on what part of the cities you're talking about. can get a decent snack at 3-4 am in certain parts of new york, and in other parts you can't. i've tried to fall asleep on the eighth floor of an asian city at 10 pm. too noisy by far, just constant traffic, a couple horns here and there... that didn't go away.

    39. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      I was amazed how the infrastructure continued to degrade in the weeks after Hurricane Andrew. Particularly wired telephone was better for a week or two before the "repairs" started. Natural gas did pretty well, but I think some service was suspended during the repair phase. Of course, if your propane tank didn't blow away, you were good until it came time to refill it.

      The smart people whose homes were totaled did move out after Andrew - making a go of it in that environment was pointlessly difficult.

    40. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Frankly I do not see why you would want to put these "edge" centers in cities. Is it that much cheaper than running dedicated fiber to one in a more rural or industrial area?

      Given the price of real estate in Paris... maybe not.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    41. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      That would be the entire point of the saying.

    42. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Oh I see than/then and the joys of English.

    43. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Indulging an anti-business mentality has consequences.

      According to CIA and IMF, France's public debt as percentage of GDP hovers around US's. So no, there doesn't actually seem to be consequences besides not having to put up with a noisy industrial facility in a residential neighborhood.

      Or it could be that demanding businesses be good neighbors is not actually anti-business but perfectly reasonable. Who knows.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    44. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Amen brother.

      My HOA cut down my rose bush as a "weed". HOAs are evil, I will never buy in an HOA controlled community again.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    45. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Spaham · · Score: 1

      Stop complaining about our complaining, you insensitive clod.

    46. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I am sure it is quite quiet in the country, but those are two different words that are not interchangeable.

      Quite - a lot
      Quiet - lack of noise

      This PSA is provided by your local grammar pendant.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    47. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by ChumpusRex2003 · · Score: 1

      I guess it depends on the exhaust system. I've seen several different hospital systems.

      One had a 1500 kW generator which was so loud, that you could not walk down the road between the hospital and the generator building without ear protection. It was so loud, that it was painful even with fingers in ears. Even inside the hospital building itself, the generator was so loud that you could not hold a conversation at a normal level of voice - although, it was offices, rather than any medical areas that were most severely affected.

      A different hospital had a similar sized generator, but it was so quiet that standing next to the generator building, it just sounded like someone had left an AC unit running. You could smell the diesel exhaust fumes for a good half-mile away though.

    48. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      8 AM on a weekend is NOT an acceptable time to be making noise near ANY residential area, whether rich or poor. Are you so bloody daft to think otherwise? 9 AM or even 10 AM would be a more appropriate start.

      Really?

      Most local ordinances that I am aware of allow heavy trucks to traverse residential neighborhoods starting at 7am on any day of the week.

      Most people have a valid noise complaint when noisy situations extend beyond 10pm in most US localities. Some US localities will consider complaints as early at 8pm, but the local laws are the deciding factor.

      That means you get 9 hours to sleep, assuming you work "normal hours".

      As for those that need to sleep during the day and work at night, well, you can't please all the people all the time.

    49. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Cramer · · Score: 1

      Diesel isn't flammable or explosive. (without other work, or agents in the mix.) However, it is a "hazardous material" when spilled.

    50. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Cramer · · Score: 1

      The only benefit to gas is the pipe that provides a continuous feed. But that is easily disrupted, too. And to some extent still requires power to operate (pressure pumps, valves, etc.) Gas lines do tend to fair better than other systems in floods, hurricanes, etc. But you're still banking on a rather fragile distribution system. (A large, on-site tank would still be advised.)

    51. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Cramer · · Score: 2

      Have you ever seen a MEGA-watt generator? We aren't talking about your Honda inverter generator to power a few appliances. We're talking about large, industrial generators that could power a small city!

      (The old Interpath "data center" in RDU had two! 1.2MW generators. 2 decades later (long after the company evaporated), it looks like one of them is still there. At the time, we joked that CP&L was installing backup power for Morrisville -- in 1997, they could've powered most of the city.)

    52. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As I sit in a hotel in Atlanta right now, I can here fireworks going off in the distance. It must be a celebration of how peaceful the city is. A loud parade siren has been blaring for the past hour. That must be a proud statement of how much the owner loves his city, that he would attract attention to his vehicle like that. What a marvelous place.

    53. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nice

      just the perfect level of snark

    54. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by CyprusBlue113 · · Score: 1

      If you're building a datacenter this size and care if a disaster takes it out 48 hours from power loss, you're doing it wrong.

      That 48 hours is there to gracefully transition to the other sites and is a gift that the disaster didn't destory the building outright.

      --
      a handful of selfish greedy people are no match for millions of selfish, greedy people -u4ya
    55. Re: Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While you are right that diesel isn't explosive under normal conditions, it is highly flammable.

    56. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't have to be noisy. I worked in a building that housed a very large datacenter (*VERY* large, you probably owned a phone from them 5 years ago). The generators were housed inside a separate building. Unless you were within 50 feet of the building, background noise was louder than the generators and you'd only know they're running from the exhaust (which also was relatively clean).

      It wasn't until I worked at another company whose generators were not housed inside a building that I noticed how damn loud they can be.

      Why not just simply ask the company to install a noise abatement solution?

    57. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      If the price is expensive than wouldn't it make more sense to move the servers outside the city and run a dedicated fiber optic line to a small distribution center in the city?

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    58. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Problem is 9:30AM on a weekday is a high-risk/high-volume period where the SLA impact can be more substantial-- it is called a "Maintenance Window."

    59. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why yes, yes I have.

      They're not that big anymore, the size of a single 18-wheeler trailer in fact:

      http://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/CAT_Power_Plant_Packages.aspx

      And some of the modern ones can be INCREDIBLY quiet with the right options on them, it truly depends on the configuration and installation of the right options. They vary from 'jet turbine taking off' to 'AC left on overnight' in levels of noise.

      - WolfWings, still here, still not signing in. :)

    60. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Cramer · · Score: 1

      Actually, that 1.2MW was the size of a cargo container. They've improved a lot in 2 decades. But they still are far from silent. Yes, with proper baffling, it can be brought down to a "low roar", but that's still more noise than most want outside their bedroom windows. Stacking 8 of them... yeah, that's a bit much.

    61. Re: Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't seem to understand the concept of societal norms. If the processes that allow a commercial interest to set up in a manner that violates the expectations of those around it is flawed, then that commercial interest must bear that liability as a cost of doing business. Why should they be exempt just because doing so would be expensive?

    62. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      Paris is geologically stable. They can be underground.

    63. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      "Have you ever seen a MEGA-watt generator?"

      Yes. I have two under my control.

      Both of them are virtually inaudible unless you're standing within 10 metres. The cooling fans are noisier than the exhaust.

      You can have a conversation right next to them without raising your voice. Even there they are quieter than the average idling car.

    64. Re:Company shouldn't have to pay for relocation by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      > Yes, with proper baffling, it can be brought down to a "low roar"

      It can be brought down a lot lower than that. The generators here are _in_ 40 foot cargo containers (along with the flywheel-based UPS system they are part of). The baffling is in additional containers plonked on top.

  2. Le rimes with pay by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

    Well, if government changes its mind long after serious money is spent, the government should pay for it.

    I don't know if it will, but it should.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:Le rimes with pay by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Rimes homophones with rhymes.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re:Le rimes with pay by TWX · · Score: 1

      Why should the government, or anyone not financially involved in the design, construction, and operation of the datacenter pay if the datacenter is not operating within the parameters that it was licensed for?

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    3. Re:Le rimes with pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Le" does not rhyme with pay. At all.

    4. Re:Le rimes with pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Le rhymes with "look" without the k.

    5. Re:Le rimes with pay by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      Why should the government, or anyone not financially involved in the design, construction, and operation of the datacenter pay if the datacenter is not operating within the parameters that it was licensed for?

      Of course I haven't read the article, but is that true? Is the datacenter louder than they said it would be when the approval was granted, or are people just now deciding to complain about it?

    6. Re:Le rimes with pay by tlambert · · Score: 1

      Why should the government, or anyone not financially involved in the design, construction, and operation of the datacenter pay if the datacenter is not operating within the parameters that it was licensed for?

      First of all, the government is involved in the design and the construction, since it insinuates itself pretty thoroughly in the process. So it's involved.

      Second, the arguments were that the data center was operating within the parameters for which it was licensed, but that it should not have been licensed at those parameters.

      So you kind of need to read the article?

    7. Re:Le rimes with pay by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Why should the government, or anyone not financially involved in the design, construction, and operation of the datacenter pay if the datacenter is not operating within the parameters that it was licensed for?

      Of course I haven't read the article, but is that true? Is the datacenter louder than they said it would be when the approval was granted, or are people just now deciding to complain about it?

      It seems like they were deciding to complain about it when they turned the generators on and they realized their lives would be a living hell from then on.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    8. Re:Le rimes with pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Le rimes with pay

      Only if you have no idea how to pronounce anything French, i.e. most Americans.

    9. Re:Le rimes with pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rimes homophones with rhymes.

      Not that there's anything wrong with that!

    10. Re:Le rimes with pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I highly doubt that the datacenter runs those generators very often, maybe once a year when a maintenance crew comes out to test them (my work has a backup generator and that's what is done here) and whenever there is a power outage. The things are far from quite but its not much different from being near a busy street.

    11. Re:Le rimes with pay by TWX · · Score: 1

      We run ours monthly. It's about the size of a conventional school bus. It's run monthly in-part to confirm that it works and in-part to refresh the fuel in the tank. It gets run during regular office hours. It's also when we test that the transfer switch is actually working right.

      Ours happens to be about 500' from the nearest residential property and literally on the far-side of a two storey building from that residence, but I could easily see someone closer to it complaining about it while it runs.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    12. Re:Le rimes with pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, it just doesn't work like that in civilized countries. It doesn't work like that with laws either. If you have, say, a gun that is perfectly legal right now, and then a gun control laws are erected, your gun just became illegal. The same goes with other things the government does. If they decided the place is too noisy or whatever, the company does something about it, or is forced to do something about it. Just because something is ok now doesn't mean it's ok in future. And that is the way it should be. You can't see everything beforehand, predicting future is damn hard. Goverment (the people) can't be held liable to some company just because some companies operation became impossible or difficult because of some decision. Thi is also why TTIP should be just rejected.

    13. Re:Le rimes with pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't see anything in the article saying the government was involved in the design and construction. It also appears that the residents considered that it was not clear that it was a data center. I'm not sure which bit you take to say that it was definitely operating within parameters as it didn't say either way in the article as far as I could see.

  3. After RTFA by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 3, Informative

    After RTFA, I made this translation:

    "Back in 2012 this company asked for a permit to build this data center. We, the local residents, didn't bother reading much of anything regarding it, didn't do any research whatsoever into what would be involved, and didn't show up at any of the hearings where these things were discussed. Now, after abdicating all personal responsibility years ago, we suddenly want to hold the data center owners responsible for our negligence. We've organized a squeaky-wheel-gets-the-grease campaign and co-opted local politicians and judges into doing our bidding because it gets them free publicity. In the end, the only losers will be the data center owners (and, of course, their clients) who, after all, are probably wealthier than we, the local residents, are and therefore we hate them."

    --
    In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    1. Re:After RTFA by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1, Troll

      After reading TFA, I noticed that there were 424 signatures on the "Get thee hence, thou Evil Datacenter" petition.

      Nice to know how few people can kill a business in France. It'll do wonders helping companies decide whether to set up in France or elsewhere....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    2. Re:After RTFA by The-Ixian · · Score: 2

      There’s no point in acting surprised about it. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display at your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth years, so you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to start making a fuss about it now. What do you mean you’ve never been to Alpha Centauri? Oh, for heaven’s sake, mankind, it’s only four light years away, you know. I’m sorry, but if you can’t be bothered to take an interest in local affairs, that’s your own lookout. Energize the demolition beams.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    3. Re:After RTFA by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Funny, I read it as incomplete review which wasn't very forthcoming (or accurate) on details: "The public inquiry was poorly conducted and did not allow people to get the full information," said Ms Sageloli. " The published notice was hard to understand and did not clearly indicate that it concerned a data center. "

      And, really, the "580,000 liters of diesel fuel" is a LOT.

      The court's decision to cancel Interxion's operating licence was based specifically on the noise pollution the refrigeration and backup generator systems produce.

      If you're making a ton more noise than you promised, or simply failed to say "oh, BTW, we'll me making a shit-load of noise", then, yes, the review was grossly incomplete.

      There is not enough words in the story to arrive at your carefully crafted "translation".

      I would like to know what the information provided for the initial review -- because I'm entirely not sure of what actually happened, and neither are you. And I'm entirely willing to believe someone glossed over some details to get it approved.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:After RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're reporting a crime. That those numbers are needed is actually a bad thing.

    5. Re:After RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typical French.

    6. Re:After RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And, really, the "580,000 liters of diesel fuel" is a LOT.

      Yes. Yes it is. That's enough to flood the entire 9000 square meter (96875.19 square feet) facility in 2.5 inches of diesel fuel.

    7. Re:After RTFA by awing0 · · Score: 1

      I need this in football fields or Olympic pools please.

      --
      Cthulhu Saves.
    8. Re:After RTFA by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      580,000 liters is only really a lot in a single above-ground tank, but based on your read I agree that it isn't the primary issue. (It is only ~200MWh of fuel.)

      As for noise, would they really not have an ordinance on acceptable noise levels at the property line? (In the US) violating that ordinance can get you shut down quickly. 50dBA at the property line continuously though is quite annoying, especially in the higher pitches of a chiller.

    9. Re:After RTFA by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Looks like about one fifth of an Olympic pool.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    10. Re:After RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, it also said "According to the evidence gathered in the administrative court, only seven people came to speak at the original public inquiry"

    11. Re:After RTFA by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      And, really, the "580,000 liters of diesel fuel" is a LOT.

      For a 76MWh facility a quick calculation puts that somewhere between 24h and 72h worth of power. Not unreasonable for a datacentre.

    12. Re:After RTFA by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I would like to know what the information provided for the initial review -- because I'm entirely not sure of what actually happened, and neither are you. And I'm entirely willing to believe someone glossed over some details to get it approved.

      I like this money quote: "The published notice was hard to understand and did not clearly indicate that it concerned a data center." So if the guys said "we're building a datacentre" then everyone would have been 100% clear on what it entails right? Because we are all experts in how datacentres affect the local area?

      Given only 7 people showed up to the review, a place where they would have had the chance to ask questions and get informed I'm going to err on the side of the comical translation provided by the GP rather than your assertion that something nefarious was going on to get this development approved. Never attribute to malice what could be attributed to lazy sods who couldn't be arsed getting up from the TV to find out what is happening in their own neighbourhood.

    13. Re:After RTFA by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      To be fair, it also said "According to the evidence gathered in the administrative court, only seven people came to speak at the original public inquiry"

      Sure, but if there was nothing at all to indicate what was being built or what the level of noise would be, perhaps people looked at it and said "oh, they want to open an office building, OK, we don't care, office buildings are good quiet neighbors".

      So, if anybody can dredge up translations of the original proposal and review so we can tell what people actually had to look at, we might have a clue what they were told.

      If the court basically is saying this is because of noise levels, then it's entirely possible the noise levels were either not mentioned or downplayed.

      In the one link in TFA, it is utterly impossible to say anything about the information available when it was approved. Maybe only 7 people spoke at the original inquiry because the provided information made it seem like a tenant was moving in nobody would object to.

      All we know is, it's having its license pulled now due to noise, and the residents claim there was not sufficient information at the beginning. Other than that, there's not much real information in the story.

      Which means deciding who said what to whom and when is not possible, and therefore any conclusions about anything like that is also not possible.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    14. Re:After RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Her name is Ms. Sage Loli? Are we sure this story isn't an elaborate 4chan prank?

    15. Re:After RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given only 7 people showed up to the review

      7 people showed up at the public inquiry.

      The 7 people remark was about a public inquiry "between January 7th and February 7th, 2013". As in, this was the court case.

      Maybe the article's just written badly, but from what I'm reading, the article did not mention how many people was there or how involved they were in the original process to allow this datacenter to be built.

    16. Re:After RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      580000 litres sounds like a lot, but it's only one 80k litre tank per diesel generator.

      The place was rated at 76 megawatts, that's pretty pedestrian today for a single 100k-square-foot setup. So 8 * 10MW generators (each of which is roughly a full-sized 18-wheeler trailer in size) each of which has a single 80k litre tank (same size as the generator, a common pairing) and yes, you end up with an 100-foot-by-80-foot backup-power yard with the generators up against the building and fuel tanks behind that most likely. Or possibly an alternating 50-foot-by-160-foot 'zebra stripe' of the same gear, but all in all? Yeah, I don't see half a million litres of fuel at a data center unusual.

      - WolfWings

    17. Re:After RTFA by tlambert · · Score: 2

      [...]corporate America's[...]

      Interxion is a Dutch corporation, headquartered in Amsterdam, The Netherlands, with data centers all over Europe.

      In other words, no Americans involved (well, except in writing the Open Source Software which likely runs the thing).

    18. Re:After RTFA by jbengt · · Score: 1

      And, really, the "580,000 liters of diesel fuel" is a LOT.

      To put it in perspective, TFA said that the data center is "rated" at 76 MW. So if 100% of that is backed up, 580,000 liters (153,000 gallons) of diesel fuel will last about a day. (YMMV)
      I'm currently doing fueling design for emergency generators for an airport, 18 MW of capacity. They have 6,000 gallons of diesel (about 4 hours of fuel) in the "day tanks" in the generator building, and 160,000 gallons of fuel in the underground storage tanks. They do have to plan for using some of the stored fuel for emergency heating if they lose natural gas, but that still leaves multiple days worth of back-up before needing to refill the storage tanks.

    19. Re:After RTFA by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 1

      Funny, I read it as incomplete review which wasn't very forthcoming (or accurate) on details: "The public inquiry was poorly conducted and did not allow people to get the full information," said Ms Sageloli. " The published notice was hard to understand and did not clearly indicate that it concerned a data center. "

      Please note the passage you quote is being mouthed by the person leading the charge against the data center...hardly an unbiased source. What did you expect her to say? That she utterly failed to look into the project during the review period and thus wants to retroactively punish the data center for her laziness and apathy?

      This is PRECISELY why public reviews are held in the first place. Only seven people even SHOWED UP to the review, yet 424 now complain about the data center.

      I've dealt with data centers for a good chunk of my IT career. It strains the imagination to think they failed to disclose they'd have chillers and stored diesel, as one or both are pretty much standard fare for any data center anywhere on the planet. The site layout would've REQUIRED them to have these items outside the data center in plain view, which means the space planning would've show where they needed to go, which means the official proposed plans DID include them during the review.

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    20. Re:After RTFA by jbengt · · Score: 2

      I think you may have slipped a decimal place, based on emergency generators i've designed for lately, 153,000 gallons would be good for about 2,000 MWh.
      Why would storage be above ground, though? In the USA, anyway, there's a lot more restrictions on above ground storage than on below ground because of fire hazards, unless you have a lot of open space.
      And if noise is the issue, then that can be mitigated, even after the fact - unless they were stupid enough to put the chillers and generators right on the lot line in a residential neighborhood.

    21. Re:After RTFA by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      "The public inquiry was poorly conducted and did not allow people to get the full information," said Ms Sageloli. " The published notice was hard to understand and did not clearly indicate that it concerned a data center. "

      Sounds like the problem is with the local regulators. It is their job to make sure everything is done on the up and up.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    22. Re:After RTFA by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the info but you should know that party you replied to will gain no wisdom from your information.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    23. Re:After RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but, but, but, but evil capitalist Americans!

    24. Re:After RTFA by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      It amazes me that more than 8 houses could hear the noise, generators aren't that loud...

      Very likely, this is more of an anti business move than a OMG scary diesel and noise!

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    25. Re:After RTFA by eulernet · · Score: 2

      Since I'm from France, I found some other articles explaining the real reasons, and they are pretty different from TFA.

      Here are my sources:
      http://www.zdnet.fr/actualites...
      http://www.lemondeinformatique...

      First, Montreuil is 11 kilometers away from Paris, it's reasonably near and a lot cheaper.
      You can check the photographs, the residents live only a few meters from the datacenter.

      The problems appeared because Interxion would like to add an extension to the datacenter, doubling its capacity, and thus the noise it produces.

      Here is a translation about the various causes:

      In particular because of the presence of generators with combustion engine, of course designed for use in emergency power supply and when the monthly testing and maintenance, but also for refrigeration systems installed outdoors on terraces, designed to operate continuously, and because of a law daily traffic of 15 heavy vehicles.
      Besides the sirens sometimes trigger during the night.

      It's nice to have datacenters, but it's hellish to live nearby.
      And if you are the owner of a house nearby, your house cannot be sold at a correct price.

    26. Re:After RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any normal person wouldn't understand that a datacenter requires noisy generators. Pull your head out your ass already.

    27. Re:After RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So? It's not like you can make 160 Decibels of noise in a residential neighbourhood even if NOBODY came to the original public inquiry. Maybe they all had better things to do, or were sick, or just missed the whole inquiry. Means nothing. It's not some "we got no objections, so we can put up coal plant here right next to these buildings" thing.

    28. Re:After RTFA by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      After RTFA, I made this translation:

      You forgot this part:

      "It was on display at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying beware of the leopard."

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    29. Re:After RTFA by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      The fast solution would be for Internexion to buy out the complainers.

      Lest you think I'm joking, this is _exactly_ what airports do for their approach paths. Once they own the land that's affected by noise they can tell the tenants to live with it or move out.

    30. Re:After RTFA by eulernet · · Score: 1

      Indeed, it's the best solution, but France is special in the sense that some people resist despite common sense, like in the comic Asterix.
      For example:
      http://soocurious.com/fr/parte...
      A few inhabitants refused to quit the village !

    31. Re:After RTFA by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      A few always do, but it's always possible to buy out everyone around them.

  4. Paris. by plover · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And I thought battling U.S. bureaucracies was ugly. Why anyone would try to operate a business in Paris that isn't a bank, restaurant, shop, or tourist trap is practically beyond reason.

    --
    John
    1. Re:Paris. by fgouget · · Score: 1

      Well, either you respect the law or you face the consequences...

    2. Re:Paris. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And even then, they can change the law at will and you face the consequences...

    3. Re:Paris. by Spaham · · Score: 2

      You're right, there's not a single business run in paris. Only banks, cafés and bakeries ?
      Who voted that insightful ?
      Stop watching fox news.

    4. Re:Paris. by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      What about the ping time from Paris??

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    5. Re:Paris. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right, there's not a single business run in paris. Only banks, cafés and bakeries ?
      Who voted that insightful ?
      Stop watching fox news.

      Lay off, that's not a perspective held by Fox News viewers. Fox News viewers know that Paris is under Sharia Law and whites are beheaded there and the blood used on cross aunts, ya pinko commie facist nazi!

      (too soon?)

    6. Re:Paris. by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Paris is a major communications hub in Europe just like NYC is for the US.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    7. Re:Paris. by plover · · Score: 1

      Oh, sorry I missed your category.

      And brothels.

      --
      John
    8. Re:Paris. by plover · · Score: 1

      And I wouldn't want to battle the corruption in NYC to do business there, either.

      --
      John
  5. Oh, sorry about that 132M EUR? by moeinvt · · Score: 1

    The company goes through all of the required government bullshit, spends 132M Euros on the project and now the government can just arbitrarily revoke the company's permission to operate the facility? That's bullshit. If the public inquiry process was flawed as the residents' attorney claims, why aren't they suing the government? What were the residents doing while this massive construction project was happening in their neighborhood?

    I certainly hope the company wins on appeal. At the very least, the government should be forced to buy the facility and pay to have the equipment moved. Who the hell would start a business there knowing that their investment could be rendered worthless overnight even after they followed all of the applicable laws?

    1. Re:Oh, sorry about that 132M EUR? by Cesare+Ferrari · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are heaps of scenarios which would lead to a different conclusion if, for example, the company was dishonest. Apparently, companies sometimes don't tell the truth. It would be quite possible for the company to not have built what it applied for, or for some important facts about the plan to have been omitted, or intentionally mis-represented.

      Another possibility is that the planners are corrupt, or simply incompetent and the application should have been rejected.

      As has been suggested, it's possible that the residents messed up, but i've a feeling this is unlikely.

      I imagine an appeal will get to the bottom of this, and some sort of compromise would be the most likely outcome.

    2. Re:Oh, sorry about that 132M EUR? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      "There are heaps of scenarios which would lead to a different conclusion if, for example, the company was dishonest. Apparently, companies sometimes don't tell the truth. It would be quite possible for the company to not have built what it applied for, or for some important facts about the plan to have been omitted, or intentionally mis-represented."

      Then it should have failed the inspections.

      "Another possibility is that the planners are corrupt, or simply incompetent and the application should have been rejected."

      That would be the government's fault.

      "As has been suggested, it's possible that the residents messed up, but i've a feeling this is unlikely."

      Really? Have you ever been to a community meeting? I did once, most of the people were idiots.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:Oh, sorry about that 132M EUR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There are heaps of scenarios which would lead to a different conclusion if, for example, the company was dishonest. Apparently, companies sometimes don't tell the truth. It would be quite possible for the company to not have built what it applied for, or for some important facts about the plan to have been omitted, or intentionally mis-represented."

      Then it should have failed the inspections.

      "Another possibility is that the planners are corrupt, or simply incompetent and the application should have been rejected."

      That would be the government's fault.

      "As has been suggested, it's possible that the residents messed up, but i've a feeling this is unlikely."

      Really? Have you ever been to a community meeting? I did once, most of the people were idiots.

      So you, who have attended ONE community meeting in your entire life, are claiming to be a better than average citizen int he same thread you blame others for not attending every single one where details might be slipped in?

      Here's a thought: The facility is fine and quiet enough and safe enough... until you bring a half million plus liters of flammable liquids that could burn down the whole neighborhood if there's a fire. Its also less quiet when the generators are running. Those facts were not disclosed in the original application, or you would provide a cite that shows they did, ya corporate apologist!

    4. Re:Oh, sorry about that 132M EUR? by Cesare+Ferrari · · Score: 1

      I think you've got the gist of my suggestions, and the implications.

      As for community meetings, yes, i've attended a fair few. As for people being idiots, I think you'll find it's a bit more complex than that. The majority of people aren't used to speaking in public, many are uneducated, and a number will have very weird ideas. Collectively though, there will be a consensus which is likely to be conservative, and distrustful of change, and from experience will at the same time be sensible and pragmatic. You have to discard the outliers and seek the consensus which can be difficult, but you'll find it rather rewarding if you try.

    5. Re:Oh, sorry about that 132M EUR? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I attended on because it was the only development community meeting we have had in my area.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  6. Details? by Pascoea · · Score: 1

    How can an article like that have so few details? What does their permit say? What was the application process? Were the citizens intentionally misled about what was going in, or were they ignorant?

    1. Re:Details? by Diddlbiker · · Score: 1
      I'm going to take a few guesses here, because the article forces us to do so.
      • The article (especially the French source) seems biased in favor of the residents
      • Nowhere in the article does it list what the permit entails, information that would surely be easy to find for a half-competent journalist
      • The article does nowhere say that the site is in flagrant violation of the permit
      • As such, it is not inconceivable that the permit does mention diesel generators (that seem to be listed as a backup for grid power and are not running 24/7), Datacenter, and large tanks for diesel fuel.
      • Because if the company was violating the permit that would surely be mentioned. Instead it mentioned the public notice was hard to understand

      So I'm guessing the company got all the paperwork done, nobody in the neighborhood bothered to read the notice and didn't protest when they had the chance. Company builds datacenter, now residents figure out first hand what the impact is.
      I would think the company will file a lawsuit against the town for reimbursement—they did their due diligence on the paperwork after all—although this being France, chances are they'll be sent home with €0 and a zut alors.

  7. Where? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't exactly describe Montreuil as in Paris.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  8. Re:The Truth About Joe Biden and Big Oil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Joe Biden bows before the power of AC, and resigns from the election. Never let it be said that stupid AC first posts are pointless, for they can change the course of American politics!

  9. 580,000 liters is NOT a lot. by tlambert · · Score: 1

    And, really, the "580,000 liters of diesel fuel" is a LOT.

    Not really. That's about what a typical hospital emergency backup system stores on site, as well (150,000 gallons is considered a minimum, which translates to a little under 570,000 liters -- and that's a minimum; most systems store a lot more, especially designated trauma centers).

    Guess they better close their hospitals, too.

  10. It occurs to me this problem could go away by tlambert · · Score: 2

    It occurs to me this problem could go away if Paris had reliable power.

    Hospitals store about the same amount of fuel, have similar chiller requirements, and periodically fire up their backup generators to ensure functionality.

    1. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by mjwx · · Score: 1

      It occurs to me this problem could go away if Paris had reliable power.

      Hospitals store about the same amount of fuel, have similar chiller requirements, and periodically fire up their backup generators to ensure functionality.

      Doesn't matter how reliable your power is, you still need to keep a reliable generator and supply of fuel at a datacentre.

      My city hasn't had a brown or blackout in 20 years that wasn't caused by a natural disaster (mostly trees falling on power lines but the odd storm has taken out power to a significant portion of the city) but a significant number of services and businesses need to keep generators due to those natural disasters

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      I'm not actually aware of any country in the EU that has power lines supplied through over ground cables.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    3. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is only true for the "low voltage" (= 1kV) networks. All medium/high-/ultra-high-voltage networks are over-ground (1kV - 900kV). There are practical reasons why over-ground cables are run, and this is mostly due to isolation and electric field gradient in the space around power cables.

    4. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is not true, at least in the Netherlands. Everything starting up to (and including) 50kV has been underground for decades. The 150kV regional networks are mixed (partly underground, partly overground). Only the 380kV national and international network is fully above ground.

    5. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      In the UK there is still a fairly large amount of 415VAC three phase above ground serving older properties. But in general most stuff has been below ground now for a long time in towns and cities.

    6. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      The thing is that using diesel generators and storing diesel on sight is a dumb and stupid solution to the problem of backup power generation and shows a total lack of critical thinking by those designing data centres.

      Here is the thing, mains gas supply is several orders of magnitude more reliable than electrical supply (at least here in the U.K.) this is down to two factors, firstly when things go wrong really bad things happen so the regulations governing it are much higher, and two the entire network is under ground.

      So rather than storing and having to use it up, because you can't store diesel indefinitely you would be far better off using mains gas to supply some gas turbines for your backup electrical generation and not bothering to store anything on site, and also not having to worry about topping it up should you loose the grid electrical supply.

      Now you might be saying what if I loose both mains gas and grid electrical supply at the same time? Well first off this is an incredibly rare event,and even having backup generators is not a 100% guarantee you won't go down in the first place.

      More importantly if your usage is so critical that you cannot afford to go down due to loosing both grid electrical supply and mains gas supply at the same time then using a single data centre in a single geographic location is a none starter for you in the first place. You need a secondary site at the other side of the country.

      In my view putting a diesel backup generator in a data centre anywhere in Europe is the sign of a clueless moron.

    7. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      In the UK there is still a fairly large amount of 415VAC three phase above ground serving older properties.

      I don't think I've ever seen any in the UK.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    8. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by greenreaper · · Score: 1

      Perhaps not, but there is apparently a significant amount of overground cabling in London, which is why they're making a tunnel to replace it.

    9. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by sjames · · Score: 1

      There are all kinds of reasons. One of my favorites was power company shut off power due to an error in paperwork. It was good to have a backup while they dispatched a truck to turn it back on.

    10. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      but there is apparently a significant amount of overground cabling in London

      They're not 'over ground', they're under the roads, like everywhere else I've known in the UK. They even state it's in the roads in the video.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    11. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      All street cabling in the UK is 400V 3-phase. Each house is normally fed a single phase tap and neutral (rolling taps down the street).

      Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    12. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      Almost all domestic distribution (street cabling) is underground in London.

      Most High Voltage is overground to a local substation, except in the central parts - that's in an existing tunnel which isn't large enough to handle demands so a new one is being built.

      HV cabling tunnels are _large_, due to spacing requirements. These are the kinds of voltages which can reach out and maul you just as badly as the Unseen Library's books, if you're careless.

    13. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      In the UK there is still a fairly large amount of 415VAC three phase above ground serving older properties.

      I don't think I've ever seen any in the UK.

      All street cabling in the UK is 400V 3-phase. Each house is normally fed a single phase tap and neutral (rolling taps down the street).

      I'm just having a problem of belief because.. Well, It''s not like I haven't been through all the major cities in the UK and don't travel through a lot of them on a regular basis. Could you show me these above ground power cables that go into houses from the street on Google Streetview? I probably just dont recognise it.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    14. Re:It occurs to me this problem could go away by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      Overhead domestic power distribution is uncommon in the UK except in tiny villages. If you see 4 overhead wires, it's 3-phase domestic delivery (the 3th is neutral)

      See http://www.epemag.net/electric... and http://www.practicalmachinist.... - the photo at the top of the latter link is a relatively common site in semi-rural areas of surrey.

      In general what you'll see is overhead 110/220kV pylons feeding to a substation, which in turn runs 11kW to local transformers that in turn drop 415V 3-phase to nearby houses. Most of the time the LV is underground and sometimes you'll see overhead 11kV to the local transformer.

      It's all about economics and how often cars hit poles.

  11. Same everywhere by t20alex · · Score: 0

    when zoning change favors city and not the residents. Here in Toronto, they would hide a small sign somewhere in the bushes of a nice little park. The sign would say "A small to negligible zoning change has been proposed, be at the city hall to debate the issue at 2:18AM of October the 2@ (coincidentally first or second digit hard to make out usually), in Nunavut. Of course no one shows up to the stupid meeting. Three weeks later, boom, park is cut down and cement is poured for a 98 story condo building.

  12. PR video of the data center by Yesimbald · · Score: 1

    http://www.interxion.com/fr/Im...

    Google maps location

    https://www.google.fr/maps/pla...

    It is not in Paris city itself, it's in the suburb. This place is a mix of housing area and old industrial facilities being slowly converted.
    There are lots of data centers around here, the article say 10% of french capacity.
    As you can see one the map, north of the data center is a highway, railroad and others industrial buildings. Only the south part is next to private houses.
    I don't think the data center will shutdown they will appeal in court and add some noise reduction system.

    1. Re:PR video of the data center by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I would think that the highway would generate more noise than that. Maybe they need to extend the exterior walls a little higher so the noise is directed up?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  13. NOT PARIS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speaking as someone that lives in Paris... this data center IS NOT IN PARIS. I don't know this particular street, but looking it up quickly, this is exactly the sort of suburb that a company would buy something and not give a shit about the neighbors. And I don't expect the neighbors in the area to be the sort of people to attend review board meetings.

  14. It's 2015 for gosh sakes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's 2015. Why the hell aren't these places running Mr. Fusion units?

  15. That is why they invent the au de toilette by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... They don't shower, you know ...

    Ever wonder why the France is known for its au de toilette, you insensitive clod?