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Morocco's Solar Power Mega-Project (theguardian.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Morocco, located along the northwestern African coast, is in prime position to take advantage of solar technology, and they've committed to one of the biggest such projects in the world. The city of Ouarzazate will host "a complex of four linked solar mega-plants that, alongside hydro and wind, will help provide nearly half of Morocco's electricity from renewables by 2020." It will be the largest concentrated solar power plant in the world. "The mirror technology it uses is less widespread and more expensive than the photovoltaic panels that are now familiar on roofs the world over, but it will have the advantage of being able to continue producing power even after the sun goes down." The first phase of the project, called Noor 1, comprises 500,000 solar mirrors that track the sun throughout the day, with a maximum capacity of 160MW. When the full project finishes, it will be able to generate up to 580MW. "Each parabolic mirror is 12 meters high and focused on a steel pipeline carrying a 'heat transfer solution' (HTF) that is warmed to 393C as it snakes along the trough before coiling into a heat engine. There, it is mixed with water to create steam that turns energy-generating turbines."
just for context, 580 MW is the power output of a single medium-sized natural gas power plant. I'm a big fan of solar, and the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step and all that, but they've got a long way to go to make a dent in regional energy needs.
also, $9B for 580 MW comes out to ~$15/W, which is a pretty steep capex (but with hopefully minimal opex due to not needing fuel). Compare to non-thermal PV solar, with installed capex cost of say $2/W and no/fewer moving parts (so les opex, although not capable of storing/delivering energy after dark unless coupled to a battery system of some sort).
It's Morocco, not UK. They ideally situated for solar plants like that.
The http://www.theguardian.com/env... has a link to
"Morocco: Works on World’s Largest Solar Plant Financed by AfDB Go Underway"
http://www.afdb.org/en/news-an...
breaking down the different phase funding AC.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
It has the advantage of not having to worry about where to store radioactive waste. Not to mention no meltdowns or radioactive leaks. So it's only half a Nuke plants output? Build two.
What are you babbling about? The full national project, at 580MW, is almost half of what a minimal nuclear power plant puts out. The Moroccans are demonstrating that dedicating massive resources to not only a major national project, but one of the biggest in the world using cutting edge solar technology, can almost equal half the value of a single 1970's era nuke plant. Nothing like being underwhelmed...
There is nothing cutting edge about this project. Regardless, I was being sarcastic.
I don't have much against nuc plants, although I don't trust the bean counters and top management, who are primarily interested in minimal costs, deadlines, and safety is well down on the list despite what we're told. But if they want to build a mirror plant, they can have at it. At least they don't have to worry about fuel disposal.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
It by "natural", you mean bombs and grenades, yeah, it can get kinda rough.
It is being built in Morocco, not Syria.
Yeah, the place is a real paradise... Maybe I've been watching too many Humphrey Bogart movies...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
I'm thinking that innovations in electrostatic dust control developed here may have applications for Lunar colonies...
Re 'tried and true solar panels" work during the day. The idea is to try and work around that night time traditional big battery storage issue with a 'heat tank containing molten sands that can store heat energy for three hours, allowing the plant to power homes into the night."
The main issues seems to be to try and get away from the "We import 94% of our energy as fossil fuels from abroad and that has big consequences for our state budget".
The cost of another fossil fuel project, the related imports and hard currency exchange should be interesting to see over the project.
The cost of batteries might have to still be reduced to become viable for big grid storage in different parts of the world. Another option is "demand response" and discounted tariffs to try and ensure people use energy during the day vs traditional demand peaks.
ie reshape midday power prices.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Huh? Morocco is pretty safe. Sure its got issues but they are relatively minor and I doubt you would see infrastructure like this being damaged by bombs. I'd suggest if it was built in the US there would be a higher risk of rednecks shooting the mirrors for shits and giggles.
I'm not exactly sure if you're being ironic or not so I'll proceed by assuming you're serious.
A battery or ultra-capacitor is simply a device that stores energy. A heat tank is also a device that stores energy. They're basically both batteries. The real question is which method is the most efficient. Likely, as they are using the sun to generate heat, it's more efficient to store that energy as heat before they need it.
The problem is the waste and ecological damage of building massive solar and wind projects are not considered in this logic. Calculate the mining, milling, toxic wastes, etc involved in building massive low output energy devices.
What's the ecological damage of mining nuclear fuel and building huge reactors and cooling towers? I don't oppose nuclear power but don't pretend it doesn't have problems. I don't understand why every time somebody builds a solar power system people crawl out from under rocks everywhere to attack it. Sure, solar power isn't a panacea but then nothing really is. All energy production comes at a cost both economical and ecological.
I'm guessing you meant 2011 instead of 2001. There have been bombings in 2003, 2007 and 2011. So yes they do have a terrorism problem but it is less that what has occurred in the US or the UK for example.
As for your friend, my condolences.
Morocco, located along the northwestern African coast
I'm guessing that anyone who has to be told where Morocco is will also need to be told where the northwestern African coast is. :p
Not really. Heat can be useful on it's own. For example a co-generation plant in Australia uses low levels of heat to warm water for an aquaculture project.
Storing as heat gives you plenty of options of what to do with it, as well as potentially providing large scale storage for far more capacity than could be gained for the same cost with batteries or capacitors even if it is far more lossy than either.
Another example is offshore windmills producing compressed air stored in underwater balloons (or in salt mines on land). The storage cost is potentially dirt cheap which outweighs the very lossy conversion to electricity.
You probably know all this, but equating all of the above to batteries just dumbs the entire discussion down to "why not use batteries", which is not something for this time when batteries still suck (just a lot less than they used to).
Ouarzazate is on the outer reaches of the Sahara. In fact, Morocco barely contains any Sahara at all, that's over on the Algerian side.
The desert around Ouarzazate is mostly rocky, and it takes several hours in a 4x4 to get to the sandy Sahara people are familiar with.
Morocco: north west coast of africa. Dominant wind direction: west.
How often is there a sand storm anyway? Sandstorms are more a concern because they darken the sky then because of potential damage.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Pretty damn small, :D :D
So is a solar pant in Morroc, considering it is built in the desert
given that one nuclear reactor can substitute for hundreds of coal
It can perhaps Substitute *one* coal plant, not hundrets.
or solar power plants As the sizes of plants vary this is not a safe bet either
and one unit of nuclear energy requires thousands of times less mining than one unit of fossil or solar (for the panels) energy.
So you never actually informed yourself about how uranium is mined?
But you dare to give your uneducated opinion?
(*facepalm*)
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
When you're talking volume of nuclear waste, it's best to measure it in four dimensions.
I haven't run the numbers, but I'd imagine that solar thermal does pretty well in regards to waste and ecological damage.
Like most other energy plants, it's mostly concrete and steel. The HTF is some kind of synthetic oil that gets reused. If they reclaim the water from the steam turbine, the plant will use very little resources once it's finished. So right there, it's already beating coal, oil, and gas.
Mirrors would need repolished, but considering that could probably be done onsite, it would be using clean energy. Motors would have to be rebuilt occasionally. Electronics would have to be replaced from time to time. Any energy plant would require maintenance of some sort anyway, so it's not really much different than wind in that regard.
It shades areas of the desert, but not completely. I'd be willing to bet it has less effect on desert life in that area than a hydro plant would have.
It doesn't require rare earth metals like a photovoltaic setup would. There's no mining involved other than the steel and concrete (which any power plant would have plenty of anyway - wind probably more steel and less concrete). Glass isn't bad, environmentally speaking - heat, sand, and some common minerals. So there really shouldn't be much in the way of toxic waste, unless they're using a particularly nasty paint (those can vary widely in eco-friendliness).
I'd say this is about as eco-friendly as you can get for a power plant. Feel free to point out anything I missed, I just woke up.
Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
given that one nuclear reactor can substitute for hundreds of coal or solar power plants
No, that's not "given", you idiot. You can't just make shit up and then claim it's "given". Do even some basic research. The total output of this solar plant at completion is 580MW. The largest planned nuclear reactor will output around 1600MW. At Palo Verde here in Arizona, the largest energy generating station in the country, the 3 reactors each output about 1450MW. At 1600MW, the statement that "one nuclear reactor can substitute for hundreds of solar power plants" is only true if the solar power plant outputs 16MW, which is 2.7% of the capacity of the Moroccan project.
Here is a solar power plant capable of only 11.4MW (that was state of the art in 2006, the largest solar plant 9 years ago). There you go, you can replace hundreds of those with a single nuclear reactor. I'd love to find a picture of a solar power plant that outputs 16MW, but the Wikipedia list only goes as low as 50MW for solar, sorry. Here is the Topaz solar power plant, capable of 550MW, constructed 2011 to 2014. In order to replace 100 of those with nuclear, you'll need to build 35 1600MW reactors. Don't forget to account for all of the nuclear fuel you'll need to mine and refine or purchase, in addition to all of the waste you're going to generate.
By the way, if you want to talk construction costs, like I already said it took 3 years to build the Topaz solar farm and cost $2.4 billion. Construction at Palo Verde started in 1976, and the first 2 reactors came online in 1986, the third in 1988. Construction cost was $5.9 billion (in 1980s dollars, feel free to adjust for inflation). Those numbers are just to avoid any bullshit claims along the lines of solar power being hundreds of times more expensive than nuclear, in case you want to try and pull something else out of your ass.
and one unit of nuclear energy requires thousands of times less mining than one unit of fossil or solar (for the panels) energy.
Panels? What fucking panels? The Moroccan project uses mirrors, pipes, heat transfer oil, sand, and water. Where are the panels?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black