Report: Google To Fold Chrome OS Into Android (wsj.com)

An anonymous reader writes: According to a report at the Wall Street Journal (paywalled) Google plans to merge its Chrome operating system into Android. Google engineers have already been working on this transition for two years; the company expects to have a functioning preview next year, and a finished product in 2017. "The move is also an attempt by Google to get Android running on as many devices as possible to reach as many people as possible. The operating system runs phones, tablets, watches, TVs and car infotainment systems. Adding laptops could increase Android's user base considerably. That should help Google woo more outside developers who want to write apps once and have them work on as many gadgets as possible, with little modification." This doesn't mean Chrome OS is on its way out. According to public statements from Google execs, it will continue to exist and see active development.

Comments

I'm conflicted about this

[water-and-sewer]

This is going to affect me and I'm not sure yet what I think about it. I use both Android and ChomeOS. I bought the Chromebook expecting to wipe it and put Linux on it, but found instead that it was a decent little laptop with spectacular battery life and a simple interface. Basically the chrome browser plus a keyboard, and I find myself putting down the Android tablet and reaching for it whenever I have some serious typing to do (like a Slashdot post for example). It's got a terminal extension that allows me to SSH into remote boxes and that plus the browser cover 85% of my use cases (no good Usenet client is its biggest shortcoming for me). Wish it had more apps, but for the things I use a computer/keyboard for, it's basically good enough.

In my pocket the Android phone (Samsung Note 3) is my daily workhorse. Love it, but it's not as simple as ChromeOS, no doubt about it.

I think we all knew this day was coming. ChromeOS needs a better app ecosystem and Android will provide it. And Android will be good on a laptop with a keyboard. But I'm somewhat leery about this. Just wish they'd provided a couple more things with ChromeOS.

Guess we'll find out soon enough. Point is: I expected not to like ChromeOS and found out I liked it quite a bit: terminal client, easy networking, dead simple peripheral configuration, file manager, and a great browser: these days I don't need a hell of a lot more than that in a secondary machine (meaning, I do my graphics, scanning, etc. on the desktop).

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an idiot for using ChromeOS and you should feel bad. There are plenty of better platforms that aren't basically just data ingestion platforms for an ad network.

Long live Android.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[pushing-robot]

It will definitely be interesting to see the state of PCs in five years, with Google pushing Android everywhere now. Android has enough of a software library to be usable for a lot of people, even a decent selection of games; lacking the Wintel tax, dirt cheap boxes could finally fulfill the Chromebook's goal of stealing the low-end home PC market from Microsoft.

The business market isn't quite as sewn up by Microsoft as it used to be, with the BYOD and cloud movements pushing a lot of applications off the desktop. IBM is moving to Macs and Office is now available for almost any platform; soon we'll reach the point where rank-and-file office users can use pretty much cheap box with a mouse and keyboard.

On the other hand, Microsoft is repositioning themselves toward the profitable high end with the recent rise of premium 'Ultrabooks'; historically this market has been Apple's domain, but Apple seems to have grown complacent in their profits and their PC lines are overpriced and lagging on updates. Still, with $200B in cash Apple could do pretty much anything they wanted if they felt the need.

Again, the next five years will be interesting.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Half-pint HAL]

The app ecosystem's the thing, and while many can survive with Google Docs, some of us need offline tools. If this spurs a proper overhaul of LibreOffice or Apache OpenOffice to a lightweight, Android-friendly version, we could be on the cusp of something very interesting indeed.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Idou]

Hey, with crouton, you can literally have the best of both worlds at the same time! (no wiping required!)

Also, it is probably too soon to assume there will be much, if any, negative impact on end users. Seems likely you will be able to continue your current habits with the added bonus of having all (not just a small subset of) android apps potentially available on your Chrome book.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[pushing-robot]

Or, you know, Office

I'm all for alternatives, but Office compatibility tends to make or break computing devices.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[The Real Dr John]

It is bad engineering to try and make a one-size-fits-all-devices OS. There is no overlap between a smartphone with a 3" touchscreen and a 3 monitor SLI desktop gaming computer, or a high-end graphics workstation. There is no benefit to the consumer to mash it all into one OS. It may be easier for the company to manage one OS with updates, but that may not even pan out over time. We will see if this is the way of the future. It will leave a giant gap for hundreds of millions of existing desktop computers that a smart company could exploit. I don't want a free OS that generates revenue by other means (ads, app store, telemetry and tracking, etc). I just want to pay for a desktop OS and be done with it. I won't be switching from Windows 7 Ultimate to Windows 10. No benefit, and lots of downsides.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[nine-times]

It's not clear to me that this needs to create a big practical difference for you. I guess I don't really know what's been going on with ChromeOS lately, but my understanding is that both Android and ChromeOS are basically Linux, so merging the system codebase itself doesn't need to make a big difference for users. They could even potentially use the same display system across both platforms while customizing the UI to fit each. ChromeOS could still be, essentially, a simplified Linux distro where the UI is mostly just just Chrome browser.

On the other hand, it would possibly make it easier for Google to update/maintain both systems if they shared a codebase. It would also possibly make it easier for Android developers to create desktop versions of their phone apps, in cases where that made sense.

So all in all, it seems like this is probably a good thing. Not that they couldn't screw it up.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Lumpy]

Only for luddites.

MANY fast moving companies do not use Office at all. I know of several that use all chromebooks for the employees and Google's offerings for a productivity suite. they save a crapload as they no longer have to maintain user IT hardware. you broke a chromebook? here's a new one, you are back to 100% productivity in 10 minutes. Don't need a portable? here s a chromebox on your desk, the receptionist uses the web interface software on the backroom servers. 99% of all CRM software is webserver based anyways, so it's a no brainer. and yes you can do docs and spreadsheets offline on a chromebook. plus the chromebooks have hard drives in them so they also have their google drive documents local.

Honestly only the crusty old companies still rely on Microsoft Office.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Anonymous Coward]

And Android will be good on a laptop with a keyboard.

This is something I have wanted for a while now.
Fuck touchscreens. They are only useful for imprecise large UI interactions, like panning, scrolling, zooming, etc.
Using them for anything else other than these is awful.
That is, unless, you use a stylus and the screens touch-resolution isn't a complete piece of crap.

The new multi-window experiments that they rolled in to the most recent update are likely evidence they had been working with this for a while.
It is still pretty god damn awful though. Vastly inferior to the multi-window system that Samsung shoved on top of Android. (hey, at least theirs worked though, and it is the only reason I got their tablet over anyone elses)

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[blazer1024]

What is the advantage of a Chromebook over, say, a tablet with a keyboard? I'm curious, as it sounds like the latter would cover your use case there... I don't use either so I don't know.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Half-pint HAL]

Or, you know, Office

I'm all for alternatives, but Office compatibility tends to make or break computing devices.

Except that MS Office for Android isn't feature-complete. If LO/OO can reengineer the full suite to trim out the fat and make them fully tablet friendly, there would be something there.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[itsenrique]

ChromeOS is very fast right now because it is so lightweight. So the advantage is that you can get reasonable speeds out of cheaper hardware. At least that's one advantage.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[macs4all]

t is bad engineering to try and make a one-size-fits-all-devices OS. There is no overlap between a smartphone with a 3" touchscreen and a 3 monitor SLI desktop gaming computer, or a high-end graphics workstation. There is no benefit to the consumer to mash it all into one OS.

Which is exactly why there is OS X and iOS.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[The Real Dr John]

Agreed. MS will probably lose more share to Apple.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[iampiti]

I don't know if you're aware of this but Libreoffice are already working on a version for Android. I think so far it only supports document viewing but editing is definitely on the cards.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[ArmoredDragon]

MS office is only really feature complete on the Windows desktop client. Even the mac version is missing features (though you gotta be a hardcore word/excel user to miss those features.)

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you prevent all the company's information from being sent to Google?

You do know that everything Google does it does to data mine you?

I know Apple/MS do this as well, but it's not their core business. Google's product is you.

Do you block the traffic on the firewall? Or would a firewall slow down your "MANY fast moving" companies?

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[fredgiblet]

If this works it may be a death knell for AMD. They have no presence in the high-end now, so if ARM gobbles up the low-end then they lose their major market. We might not have AMD processors in 5 years.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Anonymous Coward]

> MS office is only really feature complete on the Windows desktop client.

Not even there, since that ribbon debacle.

As a long time Office user -- and involuntary, since I work at a MS-only shop -- I often fail to find those functions I know exactly because I'm used to advanced features since long ago (Word 97 and earlier).

When I try to find them, my coworkers simply instate me to quit looking and say I lose too much time... they use Word just like they use Notepad, and it's ok with them.

We also have compatibility problems with documents created in previous versions (and the constant warning that "document formatting might be changed").

I believe that for the common lay user Google Docs is probably as good as Office just as it is. Microsoft really shouldn't alienate its long-time users like me.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Pumpkin Tuna]

Are you referring to being able to use Google Docs while offline. Because you can do that.

Re: I'm conflicted about this

[Anonymous Coward]

I, too, enjoy having google snoop on all my text messages, emails, and pretty much everything else I do on the internet.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoosh...Lumpy was just joking. Of course companies don't rely on Chromebooks and Google Docs, the idea is ludicrous.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[BillTheKatt]

I agree 100%. I tried ChromeOS expecting to hate it. I mean come on, an "OS" that was nothing but a browser? But it is actually a very simple, decent OS. Fantastic for Grandma or anyone else that needs just something simple. It's totally fast, and does all the basics you could need it to. Office? No, not happening, unless you want a "browser" version of it. But I was surprised how much I liked it.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[farble1670]

ChromeOS is very fast right now because it is so lightweight.

the OS itself may be light weight, but the applications is has to support are not. you need a decent processor and memory to have a good experience with chrome, and chromebooks (almost) all have low-end specs.

my experience with a chromebook was that it started barfing when i had >10 tabs open, and was slow on any complex web site. web apps are not something i can easily tolerate when they are slow.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Shirley Marquez]

I expect the default install of Android on a Chromebook will look pretty much like a Chromebook does now. You'll have the option of installing Android apps but you won't have to take it. I also hope they will make the more fully capable version of Chrome from the Chromebook available for other Android devices; it might make sense on large screen tablets.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoosh....no he wasn't. The only companies that use Office nowadays are old slow moving companies with IT departments staffed by old people. Office is a slowly dying revenue stream for Microsoft. Don't you just love how Google makes Microsoft irrelevant by the day.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Anonymous Coward]

Shhh...don't tell the Microsoft shills this. Let them continue to embarrass themselves like they always do.

Re: I'm conflicted about this

[Anonymous Coward]

Then fuck off and don't use the services, you idiot.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Anonymous Coward]

AOSP and Chromium OS mean there are true alternatives.

Re:I'm conflicted about this

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be so sure. AMD own the current console cycle, so they've got guaranteed revenue coming in for a few years yet. nVidia Ion had some early success but now AMD APUs are finding wider adoption in the low-end space. Then there is the whole DX12/Vulkan thing which is shaping up to favour AMD's pipeline far better than the competition.

Chrome Eggs

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, the "write apps once and have them work on as many gadgets as possible" myth.

The other way around

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds to me they are adding Android to ChromeOS not the other way around...

Google tells Chrome

[turkeydance]

let's see other people

Now hold on thar

[drinkypoo]

Report: Google to Fold Chrome OS Into Android

Bull. Shit. That is not what the article says. It says they're going to offer Android-based laptops alongside the ChromeOS ones. Of course, such things already exist. I have in front of my an Asus Transformer Prime TF201 running KatKiss v28. It's got a touchpad, it's got multiwindow...

Re:Now hold on thar

[squiggleslash]

That makes little sense though. That'd mean two competing, incompatible, lines of laptops. And folding ChromeOS into Android should be relatively easy, given the common kernel - it's already been done with Ubuntu and Android, and I believe Motorola shipped a phone at one point with some GNU/Linux distribution running with Android, where Android was the core UI on the phone, but plugging it into a laptop cradle gave you a proper GNOME-ish desktop with your apps available in both places.

I wonder what's really going on? Quite simply: I don't believe the article if it's implying two lines of laptop, but I don't know what's going on at Google and while I can make intelligent guesses as to the future of Android and ChromeOS, I can't say for definite what direction they'd want to take both operating systems in.

Re:Now hold on thar

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you read the same article as the rest of us?

"Google engineers have been working for roughly two years to combine the operating systems and have made progress recently, two of the people said. The company plans to unveil its new, single operating system in 2017, but expects to show off an early version next year, one of the people said."

That's definitely what the article says. Whether it's right or not is another matter, but that's what it says. It also definitely does not say that Google are going to continue offering ChromeOS laptops alongside Android ones;

"Chrome OS will remain as an open source operating system that other companies can use to make laptops, and Google engineers will continue maintaining it. However, Google’s focus will be on extending Android to run on laptops, according to one of the people."

Note the "other companies" bit. If any other company wants to take up ChromeOS, they'll be able to, but Google will be moving on, according to the article.

Re:Now hold on thar

[serviscope_minor]

I have [one] ... it's got multiwindow...

There's something deeply alarming about the fact that you feel the need to tell us that your laptop has multiple windows in 2015. Not about you, about the fact that it's a thing worth saying at all!

I mean XWindows version 11 (still in use and ABI backwards compatible with programs written then) is around 28 years old, and still going strong. Windows 2.0 (the first proper version as it had overlapping windows) is also 28 years old and its descendants are still going strong. The Amiga came out in 1985 he archimedes in 1987 (what is it with 1987??), Windows 3 in 1990 (I think this is a point when GUIs really started to take off due to the dominance of the PC platform, even if all the UNIX, Amiga, Acorn and Mac users sneered rightly in disgust), the Macintosh GUI in 1984, and the accessibly cheap Mac Classic in 1990.

I mean Multi-window GUIs have been commonly available for quite a long time.

It says something appaling about the state of computer development that it seems necessary to specify that a new laptop has multiple windows in 2015. I think this is why so many people in the computer industry are deeply suspicious of change. It's not that we hate change or improvement, we hate churn and even worse we hate when something perfectly good gets "deprecated" and the replacement mysteriously forgets all the lessons learned in the last 30 years and adds them back belatedly and half-arsed.

I mean remember the copy/paste debacle (i.e. it flat out didn't exist) on mobile devices? How long did it take before it worked at all? Does they do anything more than plain text yet? Just for reference, the ICCCM, part of X11 was hammered out in 1987 and that contains a really rather reasonable, simple, easy to understand and extensible method for copy/paste of arbitrary and rich data.

It's kinda like someone fell asleep in 1980, woke up in 2005 and remade a 1980s era computer with modern technology and the fanciest graphics available.

Zawinski's cascade of attention deficit teenagers barely scratches the surface.

Re:Now hold on thar

[drinkypoo]

There's something deeply alarming about the fact that you feel the need to tell us that your laptop has multiple windows in 2015. Not about you, about the fact that it's a thing worth saying at all!

Well, to be fair, it's arguably not very useful on a 1280x800 screen these days, especially not at 10". I can run two very primitive apps next to one another... It's only recently that Android devices commonly have enough pixels to actually warrant the feature. Now that it's relevant, it's becoming more common.

Re:Now hold on thar

[drinkypoo]

That makes little sense though. That'd mean two competing, incompatible, lines of laptops.

Microsoft had two competing, incompatible product lines going at once, why can't Google? The only reason ChromeOS existed to begin with is that Android wasn't good enough to be a host for the full version of Chrome. Now that mobile Chrome is reaching feature-parity with desktop Chrome, there's no reason to maintain both, so you're right; it doesn't make sense... unless you consider where we are now, and how we got here. This isn't like some google webapp they can abandon because nobody paid for it. People paid for those ChromeOS-based devices, and they expect some ongoing support.

Google will overlap the two operating systems for as long as it makes sense, which will probably be for several years. They will continue to ship ChromeOS until they've worked out the details. Then they'll terminate ChromeOS, but it won't happen especially soon.

Re:Now hold on thar

[squiggleslash]

Microsoft had two competing, incompatible product lines going at once

I'm sorry, but I'm having difficulty remembering any time in Microsoft's history when that happened. They've had multiple operating systems, but I don't recall any time when they tried to sell them to the same market. Even back when NT was under development and theoretically available to desktop users, they were careful to avoid it being packaged at the same markets as 95/98/Me, and eventually had to merge. You didn't go into a store and find cheap midi-towers divided into some NT4 and some with 98, and the two platforms tried to be compatible with one another.

This isn't like some google webapp they can abandon because nobody paid for it. People paid for those ChromeOS-based devices, and they expect some ongoing support.

Well, sure. The most obvious is allow ChromeOS users to upgrade to AndroidChromeOS (or whatever the name of the thing is.) Bear in mind "third party" support for ChromeOS is limited to Web Apps anyway, so these can/should be supported by a theoretical desktop Android out of the box anyway.

Google will overlap the two operating systems for as long as it makes sense, which will probably be for several years. They will continue to ship ChromeOS until they've worked out the details. Then they'll terminate ChromeOS, but it won't happen especially soon

I think you're over-thinking this. ChromeOS isn't some crud filled open operating system with several generations of APIs, where everyone from John Carmack to Alexander Kowalski has developed native binary applications. It's a locked down system designed to run Web Apps, and it even uses the same core browser as Android. There is literally nothing whatsoever to stop Google from shipping Android in its place beyond deciding on how a desktop UI should work. Once that UI is ready (a prerequisite for shipping Android laptops one would think), there's no point any more in ChromeOS. It ceases to have a purpose. It doesn't have a library of "ChromeOS" software that'll never work under the new system.

So again, what's the point? Why would Google ship competing operating systems? Nobody else does this.

Re:Now hold on thar

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows and Windows RT.

Re:Now hold on thar

[thegarbz]

I mean Multi-window GUIs have been commonly available for quite a long time.

I like to invite you to install X11 plus your commonly used window manager with much heritage of choice on a 7" tablet. Please report back how you go with minimising, maximising, closing, resizing, or even alt-tabbing on a system with neither a pointing device nor a physical keyboard.

If you think this is some problem we solved 20 years ago then you don't appreciate exactly how people can and can't interact with their OS on a tablet device.

Re: Now hold on thar

[Bing Tsher E]

I can trump that. I ran Windows NT 4 on a PowerPC box once.

There were NO third party apps for it. That certainly tops Windows RT.

Re:Now hold on thar

[iampiti]

Yep. It seems we're going backwards, and Windows 10 is not helping at all. Its UI is slowly being transformed into a franken mix of desktop and mobile UIs and that's likely to leave no one happy. I know I'm not since the new UI is worse for desktop usage.
They're even going to replace the complex and information-heavy Control Panel with a touch optimized version. I can't imagine how many options they will have to remove or how many tens of pages of touch optimized buttons and textboxes they're gonna have to add.
Everyone would be better off if they made two totally different UIs for Windows: one optimized for desktop usage and other for touch and not force users to use UIs designed for both metaphores.

Re:Now hold on thar

[Solandri]

Well, to be fair, it's arguably not very useful on a 1280x800 screen these days, especially not at 10". I can run two very primitive apps next to one another... It's only recently that Android devices commonly have enough pixels to actually warrant the feature. Now that it's relevant, it's becoming more common.

My first laptop had a 640x480 monochrome 9.5" screen. I was very productive running multiple windowed apps on it.

Somehow, this guy named Jobs convinced a huge swath of the population that it was impossible to multitask on a small screen. Even Microsoft bought what he said, and it resulted in the widespread rebellion against Windows 8's Metro interface. It's not the screen size or resolution which makes it hard to multitask on phones and tablets. It's the clumsy navigation you get with a touch interface - too easy to tap the the wrong spot or to "click" when you meant to move. Jobs eliminated multitasking so that this drawback of touch interfaces wouldn't be as pronounced, in order to increase the chances of his devices (which only had a touch interface) being accepted.

It worked, but don't ever make the mistake of believing Job's marketing spin is the true explanation. Multitasking has nothing to do with screen size or resolution. Multitasking on a small low-res screen is absolutely not a problem if you have precise inputs like a keyboard, mouse, and even touchpoint/trackpad (the important part is that pointer movement is distinct from clicking).

Re:Now hold on thar

[drinkypoo]

I'm sorry, but I'm having difficulty remembering any time in Microsoft's history when that happened. They've had multiple operating systems, but I don't recall any time when they tried to sell them to the same market.

Windows and Windows CE, then Windows and Windows RT and Windows Phone. All consumer operating systems, none of them run one another's software (though there is some .NET overlap, it was never dominant in Windows CE-land — native apps ruled.)

ChromeOS isn't some crud filled open operating system with several generations of APIs, where everyone from John Carmack to Alexander Kowalski has developed native binary applications. It's a locked down system designed to run Web Apps, and it even uses the same core browser as Android.

It does not. "Desktop" (including ChromeOS) and mobile (Android) Chrome are very different beasts; they share much, but they are not the same thing. If they were, ChromeOS would never have existed.

There is literally nothing whatsoever to stop Google from shipping Android in its place beyond deciding on how a desktop UI should work.

There is, but you have to understand that mobile and normal Chrome are not the same animal to understand that.

Once that UI is ready (a prerequisite for shipping Android laptops one would think), there's no point any more in ChromeOS.

You haven't spent much time with Chrome for Android, have you? It is not a substitute for the full-fat version of Chrome yet. It's been getting steadily closer to being that, though. The time when it will be is visible. In fact, I've been talking about this here on Slashdot since the early days of these projects, when people were originally asking why ChromeOS and Android were both things. I have a TF201 right here in front of me and use Chrome on it somewhat regularly, and I can tell you that it's still not ready to replace ChromeOS. It will get there, but it is not there.

So again, what's the point? Why would Google ship competing operating systems? Nobody else does this.

Because full Chrome and Android Chrome are not the same thing, and no amount of believing that they are will make them so. Only additional development time will do that. I take this as something of an announcement that they will attempt to make this happen more rapidly, but Google is not dumb enough not to leave themselves some options, which is why they're not talking about shitcanning ChromeOS very soon. It's still making them money, it doesn't cost them much to do since they don't have to write the OS and are already developing the browser, so there's no rush to fold it up.

Re:Now hold on thar

[drinkypoo]

My first laptop had a 640x480 monochrome 9.5" screen. I was very productive running multiple windowed apps on it.

Yes yes, my first multitasking, multiwindowed system was an Amiga hooked up to a TV, don't talk to me about resolution. Except, that actually proves my point, because the Amiga actually had a whole concept of rapidly-switchable screens because it didn't have enough resolution to really make sensible use of multiple applications side-by-side at once, so you needed some way to rapidly switch between applications which used the entire display. The Macintosh of the era also was full-screen centric, for the same reason; it had even less pixels, at 512x384. (ISTR getting around 640x400 pixels out of my Amiga, albeit very blurry and flickery ones.)

It's not the screen size or resolution which makes it hard to multitask on phones and tablets. It's the clumsy navigation you get with a touch interface - too easy to tap the the wrong spot or to "click" when you meant to move.

Well, having actually done it (since, as I said, I actually own a device on which multiwindow is working and have personal experience with it) I can say that the screen size and resolution do make it hard to multitask side-by-side on phones and tablets. And, for that matter, on netbooks. I three of those too, and the high-res one is 720p. Especially for the EEE701, it by far makes the most sense to let applications have the whole screen, preferably without any decoration at all.

Multitasking on a small low-res screen is absolutely not a problem if you have precise inputs like a keyboard, mouse, and even touchpoint/trackpad

Yes yes, I have all of that on my TF201, but the truth is that I switch between apps and don't use multiwindow because the screen is so small and the resolution is so low.

Re:Now hold on thar

[jenningsthecat]

Did you read the same article as the rest of us?

Read the article? Qu'est-ce que what?

Re:Now hold on thar

[serviscope_minor]

I like to invite you to install X11 plus your commonly used window manager with much heritage of choice on a 7" tablet.

I run Linux + X11 + Fvwm on my 9" laptop. Close enough? I also ran OpenBSD + X11 + FVWM happily and productively on my sharp Zaurus SLC3100 with its teeny (4"???) screen.

Please report back how you go with minimising, maximising, closing, resizing, or even alt-tabbing on a system with neither a pointing device nor a physical keyboard.

Well, I did have a physical keyboard but it worked fine on that screen size. I also set up FVWM to deal with a more touch friendly interface than is common and set it up with the gestures library so I could use it effectively with the keyboard folded away in tablet mode.

Worked fine.

So... your point?

If you think this is some problem we solved 20 years ago then you don't appreciate exactly how people can and can't interact with their OS on a tablet device.

The fact that you think single window is the only way to go shows how much of the kool aid you've drunk.

Re:Now hold on thar

[serviscope_minor]

Well, to be fair, it's arguably not very useful on a 1280x800 screen these days, especially not at 10".

I'm currently writing this on my 800x480 9" eee laptop.

I can run two very primitive apps next to one another... It's only recently that Android devices commonly have enough pixels to actually warrant the feature. Now that it's relevant, it's becoming more common.

I ran much the same setup on a Zaurus SLC3100 at 640x480 on a tiny 4" screen. Granted, I mostly used fullscreen programs, but not always.

In fact the old UNIX way of sloppy focus with no auto-raise works very well. You can, for example, send commands to a mostly hidden terminal with the web browser taking up most of the screen in front, but without having to faff around resizing and re-resizing a lot.

I think my point about cascade of ADHD teenagers stands even more. We've been productively multitasking on low resolution screens for decades before phones. Suddenly these pocket supercomputers seem unable to do it.

Re:Now hold on thar

[thegarbz]

My point is that you had a physical keyboard. Now take that keyboard away and give it to your sister.

You're a nerd, I'm a nerd. It's amazing what we tolerate and play with. But the standard window based interface is an absolute hit-n-miss nightmare when doing the most basic window management tasks. I tried it. I gave up. I now tolerate it on a larger tablet with a pen as the precision pointing device. Though Windows 8 and Windows 10 have come a long way to making the functionality useful with the "sloppy" touch on window borders allowing you to do things like resizing even if you didn't actually click in the right spot.

The fact that you think single window is the only way to go

Who said anything about single window?

shows how much of the kool aid you've drunk.

That response shows you're talking with your heart and not with your head.
By the way just who's koolaid am I drinking? Microsofts? Apples? Googles? The countless people who design touch screen interfaces to be as easy to use as possible? The hundred thousand web designers who create separate interfaces for mobile visitors? Universities researching man machine interactions? At least I have a variety of flavours to choose from. Flavours created by companies and having so many R&D resources poured into them because the public hated the flavour of your favourite 20 year old beverage.

Re:Now hold on thar

[KGIII]

You... You... You RTFA? Do you know what day it is? It's FRIDAY! *spits* There's only one thing worse than someone who reads the article and that's someone who does it on Friday. You take your facts, reason, and insight and pound it in your ass! This is screech like a howler monkey (and throw poop) day. Your UID number is low enough, you know the rules... I hope, for your sake, you're drunk!

Pfft... Reading the article on a Friday... Why, I never... Hrmpf! What's this site coming to, anyhow? Are you aware that you could start a trend? Then where would we be? We'd have to have outrage over only real subjects. We'd have to be rational actors. Why, we'd actually have to have meaningful dialogues. I say no! I say this is where the line is drawn - on a Friday, no less.

This hill, and no further, this will be the one where I shed my last blood. This will be where I sacrifice myself for the cause! This, this and no further!

Re: Now hold on thar

[KGIII]

There was also the XP 64 bit for Itanium at one point. I never did try it, I don't think I owned an Itanium CPU, ever. Not even in the shop or at any of the remote offices. I seem to recall that there were little to no applications ported for it but I also recall hearing that in-house apps were pretty good on it, so long as compiled specifically for it and that there were a number of caveats.

Re:Now hold on thar

[farble1670]

I run Linux + X11 + Fvwm on my 9" laptop. Close enough? I also ran OpenBSD + X11 + FVWM happily and productively on my sharp Zaurus SLC3100 with its teeny (4"???) screen.

if it's so awesome, why isn't the whole world doing it?

sorry, but if that was such a great and useful setup, we'd see more windowed mobile OSes. and no, "people just consume what apple force feeds them" isn't a great answer. apple will produce whatever people will consume, and i'm pretty sure the idea of a true windowed mobile OS has come up and been rejected.

the real answer here is that almost no applications are useful when crammed into a tiny window. terminals are the exception, and there's little demand for that. what exactly do you put into that 500-pixel wide window?

Re: Now hold on thar

[Bing Tsher E]

The Windows NT 3.51 and 4.0 CDs were true cross-platform installers. The same old clunky NT 4 CD that came bundled with every crummy Compaq workstation was a universal CD, with the PPC and Alpha installers on it as well. NT 3.5 also included the MIPS port, which I think was dropped on NT 4. So every installer CD out there anywhere could be used to install on even the esoteric hardware. My PPC box was an IBM PREP box, Power PC with the PCI bus, even some ISA slots, etc. A PC clone with the PPC chip. It could have taken off, and become a mainstream platform, but it never did.

Re: Now hold on thar

[KGIII]

Now that you mention it, I think I did have a DEC Alpha box that had XP on it. :/ I think it might have been a rebadged workstation from not long after they sold. Wow... That was ages ago. I'm not even positive. I just sort of dimly recall it. I kind of drank a lot back then. By a lot, I mean functioning alcoholic area of drinking - as in beer for breakfast type drinking. Strangely enough, I stayed functioning until after I retired. It's like my brain knew and said, "Well, I don't have to work any more." I've since quit. I'm just too good at drinking and it's time to let a new professional hold the throne.

Re:Now hold on thar

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing is, when you have a mouse and keyboard, you are already not talking about a "pocketable" device any more. Which phones and tablets are. Those must develop a touch interface to be useful. Even a stylus is annoying to have to use with them.

So it's not as much Jobs' marketing spin but simply that this is a different category of products than laptops, and they require a different approach in UI. Sure I could use a mouse and keyboard with my 5" phone. But most of the time, I dont carry those with me.

And don't start demonstrating how you can pocket that brick of a laptop just to split hairs, because that is not considered pocketable in the year 2015, just like the brick satellite phones tied to a suitcase are no longer what someone would consider "portable" these days.

Re:Now hold on thar

[Anonymous Coward]

Preach it, brother. This is the main reason I will never downgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 7. I actually went ahead with the update and spent a total of 30 minutes in Windows 10 before thinking "Oh, hell NO" and upgraded back to Windows 7. The UI is a clusterfuck and they're still trying to push their failed tile UI. And with all of the data they send back to Microsoft (including keystrokes by default) I don't see why anyone would downgrade to this shitty OS.

Re:Now hold on thar

[serviscope_minor]

My point is that you had a physical keyboard. Now take that keyboard away and give it to your sister.

If you're going to debate, please actually read my post, including the bit about using it with the keyboard folded away?

Who said anything about single window?

This whole subthread was about the inanity of "multiwindow" needing to be mentioned in 2015. If you're not talking about multiple/single windows then we're completely at cross purposes and I've literally no idea what you think we're discussing.

Re:Now hold on thar

[serviscope_minor]

if it's so awesome, why isn't the whole world doing it?

Well done on moving the goalposts. Come back when you've got a consistent argument you can stick to.

Re:Now hold on thar

[ToddInSF]

Spending 30 minutes with an OS that's two versions ahead of the one you're currently using is hardly enough time or effort to adequately judge it.

Touch interfaces are here to stay, deal with it, and grow up. Expecting an OS UI to remain the same after a decade when a new input device is everywhere now, is just dumb.

That being said, Windows 10 is pretty easy to make feel and look like 7; I manage to do it for all my more brittle and more or less lazy customers.

Re:Now hold on thar

[Anonymous Coward]

...it's already been done with Ubuntu and Android.

False. It's currently being attempted.

Even I could run a chroot of $distro on Android years ago, but that's not what we are talking about here.

Wouldn't mind that.

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder want the hardware restrictions will be. I have an older laptop I'd love to try it on.

Security

[puddingebola]

Isn't this one of those things where they make a product with an emphasis on security, and then as it gains some popularity, people want more features, more functionality, and so they start adding those features and functionality, and then they just start turning it more and more into Android, and then the security holes and malware problems with Android start to appear in Chrome OS, and then the advantages that Chrome OS had vanish? Isn't it one of those things? Is it really impossible to just have two different platforms with emphasis on different strengths? I think the marketing people are doing this. I blame them.

Re:Security

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm 100% with you fellow-techno-hipster. I WAS an Android user. I abandoned it to switch to ChromeOS. I don't want that shitty JVM based monstrosity anywhere near my beautiful sleek Chromebook. Pretty soon I'm going to have to use the "Primebook" in order to get any security!

For those of us

[Ol Olsoc]

Who give a rat's ass about installed "user base".

Which is not me.

I'll have to stand by and see what this development entails. I love my "Breakfast Chromebook" which I use when going out to eat in the morning. My Android tablet? It's a toy. Melding the two, I sure hope it's a lot more Chrome, than Droid.

blah

[strstr]

hate android. every app on it chews up 10 times more CPU cycles than traditional native apps. time to move away from android to something better with native apps.

Re:blah

[Half-pint HAL]

Well, if the merged platform has ChromeOS as a base layer and the Dalvik VM and Android widgets only being booted when first invoked, that's not going to be a problem: you'll only need to chew up the cycles when you need an app that isn't available for the ChromeOS layer anyway, and ChromeOS was never really targeted as an app platform to begin with.

Re:blah

[Anonymous Coward]

Android apps are natively compiled since Android 5.0. The more you know...

Merge Chrome OS with Android: Not!

[claude.j.greengrass8]

If Google did merge Chrome OS into Android, it would open the market place for someone to build a Chromebook Mark II. An Internet appliance computer is now an established computing genre. ...and I also think of Chrome:box/book/base/bit as Network Computers done right. Sun's John Gage was correct with his quote "The network is the computer"

Fix the bugs

[kbg]

I just wish Google would focus on first fixing all the massive amounts of bug in Android before trying to shovel more crap into Android.

what's old is new again

[xeno]

Didn't Microsoft fold their app-running browser into their more widespread OS a while back?
Wasn't there some issue with that? So foggy... I wonder how that will turn out...

Re:what's old is new again

[Half-pint HAL]

Ah, but MS ended up looking like they were reducing functionality, and they were imposing an unfamiliar workflow on users. The ChromeAndroidOSBook wouldn't be looking to replace Windows, but ChromeOS, so you're not going to have office workers bitching about the ridiculous new save dialog in Word. More importantly, Android is in very common use, so the workflow is already familiar, unlike the barely-used Windows Phone UI that became "Metro". Microsoft's goal was to use ubiquitous desktop Windows to get people familiar with the Phone UI and therefore sell more Windows phones. That's exactly the opposite of what Alphabetti Spagoogley are up to.

Re:what's old is new again

[Anonymous Coward]

Office workers will always complain when forced to accommodate changes in the software they are accustomed to using. The people who advocate changing from a Windows environment to a Linux environment seem to think the users will easily adjust to a whole host of new application behavior with no problems but changing the Save dialog in Word is just intolerable. When MS folded all kinds of functionality into their OS is was called bloatware and was proof of them abusing their monopoly. When Google tries the same thing it's called progress? MS profited from selling their software but Google's profits are created by selling their users. Unless of course you think Google is philanthropy whose only goal is to provide free software services to the masses.

Re:what's old is new again

[Half-pint HAL]

No-one's advocating switching from Windows to Linux here. Google is working on a niche here, and trying to expand it. I believe that the niche could be expanded even further if better document editing was available, but I don't think it's going to wipe out Windows and Office.

false

[Anonymous Coward]

Google already said it was false....

About time really

[DrXym]

Google shouldn't have bothered with ChromeOS in the first place. It just confused everyone that they shipped two mutually incompatible operating systems that overlapped over the same problem space.

Re:About time really

[invid]

Google shouldn't have bothered with ChromeOS in the first place. It just confused everyone that they shipped two mutually incompatible operating systems that overlapped over the same problem space.

Android wasn't ready to be run with a mouse and keyboard, so they didn't overlap over the same problem space. Look to Windows 8 to see how fubar an OS can be if it isn't really ready for both touch and mouse/keyboard.

Re:About time really

[DrXym]

The thing is, Android *does* run with a mouse and a keyboard and has done so for a very long time. Look at the likes of the ASUS transformer tablets which have been out for a long time. Lots of office apps exist on Android. I even recall plugging a mouse / keyboard into a MIPS set top box running Android some 6 or 7 years ago.

That said, keyboard / mouse support has always been basic. Part of the reason for this is that the Google didn't push the support and therefore many apps don't do much with it. If Google released a desktop mode for Android and APIs for hotkeys, tooltips, menus, tabbing, cursor shapes etc. then it's likely that devices in those form factors would be more prevalent and more apps like browsers, word processors etc. would add decent support for it.

It would certainly be less effort than writing and supporting an entirely different OS as Google have done with such limited success.

The name "Android"

[invid]

I really hate the fact that the name of the dominant OS is "Android". This is going to be really confusing once we start building real androids.

Bob: Hey Mary, what OS do you run on your android?

Mary: Android.

Bob: Yeah, on your android, what OS?

Mary: Android!

Bob: Yes! I'm talking about your android! What OS is running on it?

Mary: Third base!

Re:The name "Android"

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be a retard.

Re:The name "Android"

[dotancohen]

I really hate the fact that the name of the dominant OS is "Android". This is going to be really confusing once we start building real androids.

I'm waiting for IoT FleshLight running the Android fork Gynodriod.

How exactly would ChromeOS "fold" into Android?

[LichtSpektren]

Chrome is already available for Android. As soon as the desktop extensions and apps are available for it, then that's pretty much all of ChromeOS right there. What the heck does it mean for ChromeOS to "fold" into Android?

Re:How exactly would ChromeOS "fold" into Android?

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember when android phones were announced not but a few short years ago. Prior, your choice was either winmo or apple phones. Google touted itself as being user friendly, open source, but most importantly, all about freedom of choice. I was ecstatic, believing them, thinking it was about freedom of choice, openness and transparency, without all the tellemetry-calling home-tracking bs that ms has become and apple has been since day one. Well, when the phones were introduced, those beliefs were instantly shattered. I held off up until late last year to buy an android phone. I bought a Sony flagship Z3. What a POS that is. Rootable yes as I bought it unlocked to begin with. But it's design is pathetic and the phone breaks if you look at it the wrong way. Anyways I recently replaced it with a Samsung Galaxy5. Unfortunately it shipped with lollipop which is unrootable, so ATT's crap is unremoveable.
I posted just this morning how google would love for everyone to not only use droid but own and use a chromebook as well. Lo and behold this bs post shows up confirming how predictable and pathetic google has always been-from day fucking one. Don't forget that super computer data mining center that faggot traitor obama {puke} mandated. When 100% of the country, if not the world, uses hemmoroid or crapple, it will make their job of controlling your data and monitoring your movements too easy. Meanwhile they hide behind their 'national security' tripe of corruption and bribes, if not outright murder.
I spent more than half my life without the internet OR a cellphone. Believe this, it will be all too easy to NOT use google AT ALL. My ts win7pro tablet boots faster than my phone, has a discrete gps module, and a sim slot (Motion Computing R12). Problem is it won't fit in a pocket or strap to your belt. Still, the thought of pulling the sim card out of the phone and using the tablet with a bt device may be my only choice atm. The thought of buying one more android phone so I can root it just to get my constitutionally driven privacy back is not very appetizing. Phones are simply too fucking small to use as a dedicated computing device without ruining ones eyes. Plus, there are very few phones out right now that advertize privacy and security without raping your wallet for basically what google should have given to begin with for free. Not only that, who cares if you use redphone or try to encrypt email. No one else does so it's practically useless. Irregardless, I will not be the govts or googles sheep that blindly follows the herd into submission, disinformation, and propaganda-with a free drug prescription thrown in.

Chrome OS is now in beta

[tomhath]

But there are no current plans to sunset it.

Re: How exactly would ChromeOS "fold" into Android

[tandavanadesan]

I was thinking the same thing. Chrome folded into android basically equals android.

getting a major tech update

[dwpbike]

from wsj concerns me. the tech pubs getting bloated and lazy? google wanted potential stock buyers to get the first heads up? it's a republican thing?

Anti-trust

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't this EXACTLY what got Microsoft in trouble?

Google Announces Plans for New Operating Structure

[nickweller]

Google Announces Plans for New Operating Structure

VOLKSPC OS already runs Debian and Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Here it is shown running the MATE desktop and KitKat on the ODROID-C1 board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqJgAokMZu0

You can download free demo from http://www.volkspc.org/demo

The year of Android on the desktop

[irrational_design]

So, is Android destined to be the new Linux?

Re: How exactly would ChromeOS "fold" into Android

[bill_mcgonigle]

Android's UI is OK for small screens, but inefficient for typical computer work (compare tabs in ChromeOS to tabs in Android).

Android needs to gain a desktop UI mode, maybe in 7.0, and the devil is in all the details of making that coexist smoothly with the phone mode. The key bit here will be that you won't necessarily need a Chromebook - you'll be able to buy a Chromecast-like dongle to hook a KVM setup to and use your phone in Desktop Mode (unless you want to buy all-new wireless KVM peripherals). 2017 smartphones will have more than enough CPU and memory; heck, maybe MicroSD will make a comeback in reasonable devices once the "phone" becomes most people's sole computing device.

Chromebook is secure

[perpenso]

What is the advantage of a Chromebook over, say, a tablet with a keyboard? I'm curious, as it sounds like the latter would cover your use case there... I don't use either so I don't know.

Chromebook is locked down and far more secure that Android. Want to do online banking, a chromebook would be a far better idea than a tablet or a PC.

Re:Chromebook is secure

[farble1670]

Chromebook is locked down and far more secure that Android. Want to do online banking, a chromebook would be a far better idea than a tablet or a PC.

yeah, there's never been an exploit in a browser. oh wait a sec ...

Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows RT

What does this really mean?

[JohnFen]

There's a reason why I avoid Chrome OS (specifically, that it depends on the cloud), and my fear is that in merging it with Android, it may make Android unacceptable to me as well.

The better to track you with

[tanstaaf1]

The history of Google getting their hand down everyones' pants has been pretty simple strategy wise. (1) Offer "free" candy, no strings attached. (2) Get you to sit on their lap and feel comfortable and safe. Not such a scary "string", right? (3) Loosen your belt-buckle etc. as they offer more candy. (4) Stick it in as they give you another dollup of candy. (5) Invite you to invite your friends in on the free candy. (6) Go to the schools for the children. Administrators will turn over a lot of information on underage children given enough "free" candy. Here we go again. I'm guessing it will become increasingly difficult or impossible to sidestep google getting its way with you and yours as time goes on. Just wait until they have you using their routers, driving cars infected with their tracking devices, etc. etc. Amazing how stupid the human race as a whole appears to be.

Re:The better to track you with

[Anonymous Coward]

I see the idiot with the tin foil dick has showed up again. Why do idiots, like yourself, seem to think people don't understand the contract? Data is given in return for more richer service experiences. If you don't like the contract then don't fucking participate. But, for those that do why do you feel the need to criticize them? If you don't want provide Google your useless and shitty data then don't. But, for the ones that do and wish to receive the benefits then leave them be, you idiot.

Google has denied this report

[swillden]

http://www.theguardian.com/tec...

What about my android?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps one day we'll have our androids running Android.

Google denying this

[Anonymous Coward]

An email from our Google contact denies this. He says that Google did not put out this info and that it is false. He also says he expects Google EDU execs to tweet about it being incorrect info.

Merging ChromeOS and Android

[TheRealDilbert]

While Google has now denied the story, I think that they should try to merge to 2 OS's. Use ChromeOS as the base OS for the device (fast boot, secure, etc..) and have easy way to run any Android app (and phone stuff - e.g. voice calls to regular phone service) on top of that in a secure sandbox. On the phone, the ChromeOS UI is hidden to support the touch UI Android is good at, and on the laptop the user can use either UI depending if they want touch or mouse/keyboard interaction. This way we keep the main advantage of ChromeOS (highly secure) with the app ecosystem of Android. Will make even more sense when the next iteration of devices is based on your phone's CPU and the laptop is just an extension (larger display/good keyboard) that the phone supports as a peripheral when you need it.

Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fold into... um, why is the... what... just... er... I...

shrug...

Linux. There. Said it.