Baidu Data Research Reveals China's Ghost Cities (thestack.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Chinese web services giant, Baidu, has embarked on a new study in which it uses location information from users' mobile devices, as well as mapping and building data, to identify areas with high volumes of construction with relatively low population densities — known as 'ghost cities.' The researchers, in the published findings Ghost Cities: Analysis Based on Positioning Data in China, were able to discount areas which experienced high levels of tourism which skew the figures in peak seasons. The Baidu Big Data team discovered 50 ghost cities, although only 20 of these were revealed in the report to avoid potential harm to the real estate market in these areas.

Comments

Ghostly!

[Calydor]

Living in a ghost city gives me fast enough internet to get first post.

Re:Ghostly!

[guestapoo]

*Living* in a ghost city let you the only one to get first post.

Re:Ghostly!

[Anonymous Coward]

Me Chinese!
Me first post!
Me live in town that is a ghost!

Hey, it beats urine in your soft drink...

Re:Ghostly!

[Noah Haders]

-1 sucky meter.

Re:Ghostly!

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to live in such area,
Houses are cheap, large, quiet. you drive fast.

Re: Ghostly!

[bitflusher]

I think the houses are expensive, this was one of the causes of the ghost town problem. Rich people buy a 2nd house as an investment but do not live in them. This drives prices up. People with an average income are unable to buy or rent at those prices.

Re:Ghostly!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh! You mean the cities built by Europeans before we were sold their Chinese origin plot? Like Africa ghost neighbourhoods in NY? Of course you are expected to steer away from them or arrived with a very well armed GROUP.

Home for refugees?

[slowdeath]

How about relocating Syrian refugees into these unused housing units?

Re:Home for refugees?

[Anonymous Coward]

or they are looking not to just have their families blown apart by bombs.

Re:Home for refugees?

[AK Marc]

Yeah, the free handout of "not dead" by ISIS or the foreign response to ISIS.

Re:Home for refugees?

[Anonymous Coward]

They must not care a lot for their family, seeing that it's mostly men in the 18-40 range coming without wives, parents or children.

Re:Home for refugees?

[quantaman]

They aren't looking for housing, they are looking for socialist freebies in the (still) richer part of Europe.

So you've uprooted your family to escape a really awful war zone and now need a new place to live, you have two options.

1) Stop in a country with a poor and fairly zenophobic population and very few people who share your religion or culture.

2) Stop in a country with a richer and less zenophobic population and communities of people who share your religion or culture.

Of course they're fleeing to the richer parts of Europe where some Muslims already live, they're rational people who want them and their children to have good lives, why wouldn't they? Would you really settle in a poor country if you were in their position?

As for settling them in the Chinese ghost cities they'd be put in a very difficult position without other people who shared their culture or language and living in a country who doesn't really know how to deal with immigrant populations, it probably wouldn't be their first choice.

Re:Home for refugees?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just one problem with that: The Chinese aren't stupid enough.

Re:Home for refugees?

[quantaman]

they're rational people who want them and their children to have good lives, why wouldn't they?

"Wanting" isn't enough. They left their children behind to seek handouts in Europe. These "refugees" are the first in history to have a majority of men and few to no families among them.

Wrong

Re:Home for refugees?

[Anonymous Coward]

From the website you linked:

51 percent are Syrian. The rest have come mainly from nine other countries. Most of these refugees and migrants have been men — 72 percent

So 49% are definitely not from Syria and 72% of the total (Syrians and non-Syrians) are men. Syrians should have more women among them, so almost all non-Syrians "refugees" are men.

Re:Home for refugees?

[quantaman]

From the website you linked:

51 percent are Syrian. The rest have come mainly from nine other countries. Most of these refugees and migrants have been men — 72 percent

So 49% are definitely not from Syria and 72% of the total (Syrians and non-Syrians) are men. Syrians should have more women among them, so almost all non-Syrians "refugees" are men.

And also from the website I linked:

But his comment that “the majority of them are young males” is contradicted by the best data available on the Syrian refugees’ demographics.

The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees — which refers refugees for resettlement in other countries — says there are more than 4 million registered Syrian refugees. Its figures on the demographic makeup of refugees is based on available data on the 2.1 million who were registered by the UNHCR in Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon. (Another 1.9 million Syrian refugees were registered by the Government of Turkey, and more than 24,000 were registered in North Africa.)

UNHCR’s data show that 50.5 percent of refugees are women. Females age 18 to 59 make up 23.9 percent of the refugees, while males in that age group make up 21.8 percent.

Even younger males — age 12 to 17 — represent 6.5 percent of refugees, while females that age are 6.1 percent. The majority of refugees — 51.1 percent — are under age 17, including 38.5 percent who are younger than 12 years old. These numbers were as of Sept. 6.

The figure you site talks about the 400k sea arrivals, at most 5% of the arrivals.

Which raises the obvious question, why did you use the quote at all? Did you not think I'd actually read the article enough to see it was out of context? Did you somehow miss all the other context and only saw the phrase that seemed to support you? Did you know you were taking it out of context, realize I'd spot it, but decided to post it anyway? I just don't see the point.

Re:Home for refugees?

[Calydor]

If that was their goal they wouldn't be throwing fits about being put in cities that aren't 'big enough', they would have sold their fancy smartphones to get another family member with them, and they would basically be behaving like people grateful to not live in fear for their lives rather than bratty teenagers that get a BLACK Ferrari instead of a RED one.

Re:Home for refugees?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice strawman.

Re:Home for refugees?

[geggo98]

Just in the case anyone is wondering: Zenophobic is defined as "the fear of Zen".

Re:Home for refugees?

[Jack Griffin]

Of course they're fleeing to the richer parts of Europe where some Muslims already live, they're rational people who want them and their children to have good lives, why wouldn't they?

This sounds nice, but the reality is that there is a queue of people on the French border trying to get smuggle themselves into the UK. Any argument for asylum evaporates if France isn't good enough for you.

Re:Home for refugees?

[quantaman]

Of course they're fleeing to the richer parts of Europe where some Muslims already live, they're rational people who want them and their children to have good lives, why wouldn't they?

This sounds nice, but the reality is that there is a queue of people on the French border trying to get smuggle themselves into the UK. Any argument for asylum evaporates if France isn't good enough for you.

I assume they're trying to get into England from France for the same reason other people might want to be in England instead of France, maybe they have relatives there, or maybe they just speak English.

Re:Home for refugees?

[ArylAkamov]

Don't forget about them leaving Finland because "The internet is too slow, it's boring and it's too cold".

Because that's the primary concern as a "refugee".

Re:Home for refugees?

[Jack Griffin]

Seeking asylum doesn't mean finding a more comfortable place to live. If the choice is death/torture/persecution, or learning a new language and being safe, then I think the latter is satisfactory.

Should I be concerned?

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the impact of these building projects to the average person that does not own real estate in one of those areas? Should I be worried about these ghost cities?

Someone is going through a lot of trouble to find these areas, there must be some reason they are being built and some reason why people believe no one lives in them I would assume. My neighbor just put in a second shed. He only has enough yard equipment to fill one shed. Maybe I'll investigate.

Re:Should I be concerned?

[Coren22]

The primary way for Chinese people to legally invest money is to buy property, so many of these units go to property speculators trying to earn a return. Also, China plans far in advance, and the people have been moving from the country to the cities at an amazing rate there, so they are taking the long view and building housing for the boom that has been ongoing for decades. They won't always be ghost cities, but currently no one lives there.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great...

Re:Should I be concerned?

[Raseri]

China's so-called ghost cities are actually just very, very new. http://blogs.reuters.com/great... What actually seems to happen is that developers (the real estate kind, not the Steve Ballmer kind) buy land for cheap because it's far from any existing population center, but Chinese law requires them to build something rather than sitting on it. So all these developers build all this stuff, and after a few years people start moving in and the ghost cities become just plain cities.

Re:Should I be concerned?

[Raseri]

It looks like a redundant post, but that's what I get for allowing myself to get sidetracked by work while I'm posting on /.

Re:Should I be concerned?

[Hognoxious]

They're dispersal sites in case it looks like the cans of instant sunshine are going to start flying.

(The cities I mean, not the sodding sheds.)

Re:Should I be concerned?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Chinese government is trying to run a command economy (Communism).

Building shit nobody wants or needs at grate expense is one of the more common problems with command economies, as you get the government deciding what to build and where and the people who make the decision have no incentive to care more about the demand for those buildings than who's pockets get lined in the building of them.

Re:Should I be concerned?

[plopez]

Every major company in the world desires a command economy; "buy our product even if it is crap", e.g. MS.

Re:Should I be concerned?

[Anonymous Coward]

Question is, do they finish the inside of the structures or are they just hollow shells? Because I would imagine an unpleasant amount of toxic fumes would build up (from carpet, paint and adhesives) from them being shut up and unused for potentially years before they are sold or leased to occupants.

Also fashions change, materials deteriorate, and animals get in even where you would think they can't. Some of these places must end up being pretty scummy or require major overhauls if they are finished and left vacant for years.

Re: Should I be concerned?

[Anonymous Coward]

That trapped air is still probably fresher than the air in the city they moved from.

Re:Should I be concerned?

[LynnwoodRooster]

In China, you get the hollow shell. That's the normal approach for new construction - in a "ghost city" or in the heart of Shanghai. You pay for the flooring, paint, doors, fixtures (plumbing and electrical), even the outlet covers and the outlets themselves. You get the concrete walls, ceiling, floor, and pre-pulled electrical and plumbing - and that's it.

Re:Should I be concerned?

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to the TPP worldview.

This is allowed?

[wile_e_wonka]

Is anyone else surprised that Baidu was willing and able to conduct and publish this study without intervention from the Chinese government?

Re:This is allowed?

[wile_e_wonka]

And also, why is Baidu interested in this information?

Re:This is allowed?

[guestapoo]

Ghost cities are not new in China. I have seen these news every years.

Just Google some:
http://www.dailybrainfreeze.co...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...

Re:This is allowed?

[gnupun]

Nice justification for 24x7 spying on 700 million people. Couldn't they have just rented 10 cars and driven around all the cities to find the ghost cities in a month or so?

Re:This is allowed?

[AK Marc]

They don't mention the ghost cities that got occupied. What happened is that the population boom was slowed too well by the one-child policy. The housing growth rate continued after the population growth slowed. So there was over-build. It was also a welfare program. Rather than paying billions for people to sit at home, China's welfare program is to pay people to build things someone will need. Even Shenzhen started out as a ghost city, and is now over-crowded, with about 12M people moving there over 25 years.

Re:This is allowed?

[Anonymous Coward]

So let me get this straight, Chinese ghost cities have fully functional cellular networks?

The curry nigger Indians night as well just throw in the towel right now, being without indoor toilets even in New Delhi.

Re:This is allowed?

[guestapoo]

I don't think the Shenzhen example is valid, and not with the population (while some city, like Beijing is overcrowded), but I think the problem here is unbalanced development.

Shenzhen was built when Zheng Xiaoping began modernize China, with the help of USA. There was with plenty of opportunity to develop at this time, when China was likely built from the ground up. But now, it's easy to build city, but it's much harder to create social services, move to the businesses, etc, to the newly city.

Re:This is allowed?

[AK Marc]

But it's the same idea. A new city holding 12M people 25 years after it was founded has never happened before in the history of the planet. China has done it, and many of the ghost towns are waiting for the same thing to happen there.

Re:This is allowed?

[guestapoo]

The same? As the children were born in the era of economic boom relying on low-wage workers, one child policy, *are the same* as the children will be born in the era of two child policy and rapidly aging population, more competitive, and the economic development could not rely on cheap/low-quality products anymore?

As I pointed out, Shenzhen was the first, and the only special economic zone at this time, may be everyone wanted to go there.

I remember in old Oxford Headway, there's lesson about Shenzhen was in construction, described as the sign of the rise of China. But, this at the moment, the new-Shenzhen (ghost city) could be the sign of (the begin of) the decline of China.

Oh noes, can't have anything threating land prices

[UnknownSoldier]

> although only 20 of these were revealed in the report to avoid potential harm to the real estate market in these areas.

Wow. This is a new low for capitalism. Can't reveal facts because someone might lose money if they ever came to light ! /sarcasm And here I thought only the USA had the best government money can buy.

Huh.

[Type44Q]

Lead researcher, Guanghua Chi hopes that the study will help the Chinese government...

And the Chinese government hopes Guanghua Chi's organs enjoy long, prosperous lives in their new [wealthy, Australian] bodies...

There are no jobs for the Chinese there

[rsilvergun]

Why would it be any different for the refugees? It's kinda like when they relocated all those dirt poor black share croppers to the projects in the 70s and then Reagan pulled the funding sending them into a perpetual spiral of poverty. Did I say 'kinda'?

Re:There are no jobs for the Chinese there

[Anonymous Coward]

By "the 70s" and "Reagan", you probably mean the 50's and the Department of Housing under the LBJ administration. If anyone tried it after that, they had no excuse.

Re:There are no jobs for the Chinese there

[JoeMerchant]

Regan wasn't elected until the '80s, and I'd find it hard to give him credit for the perpetual spiral of poverty, that's been a hallmark of American Democracy since forever. The land of Equal Opportunity - well, except for those kids with rich parents, they get more equal opportunities than the rest.

Re:There are no jobs for the Chinese there

[plopez]

LBJ wasn't in office 'til the 60's. And the parks directory of NYC shares much of the blame, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:There are no jobs for the Chinese there

[dbIII]

True, he was a symptom of everything going to shit and not the cause. People get confused about him because he would say something (eg. never deal with terrorist) then do the opposite (eg. massive payout to Iran over the hostages as his first thing in office FFS, then arms dealing to Hezbolla and a long list of rebels in Central America).

Re:There are no jobs for the Chinese there

[Anonymous Coward]

LBJ was absolutely in office in 1968 when the USDOH was urging residents of Pruitt-Igoe to find a home elsewhere. And since Pruitt-Igoe was at the corner of Cass and Jefferson in St. Louis, I'm pretty sure that nobody from NYC bears any blame for it.

Protect The Monied Interests

[Afty0r]

"only 20 of these were revealed in the report to avoid potential harm to the real estate market in these areas" To avoid harm to a market, they are willing to withhold the truth, which potentially harms everyone who is considering purchasing (or even renting) a property in that market.

Re:Protect The Monied Interests

[Anonymous Coward]

Meh, no worse than a rumor of a run on a bank actually being worse than insolvency.

It's a tough question, do you report something and screw everybody, or do you realize that you can do worse harm by telling a bunch of people who will freak out over nothing something they would know if they had half a brain anyway?

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[BotanistPrime]

This is how China operates! Only good news is reported. Bad news is not.

We're in trouble now

[wyattstorch516]

They will probably use these cities to house ghost armies and take over the world. Bet they got the idea from "Return of the King".

Re:We're in trouble now

[plopez]

BUt only a Northern European can command that army..... doh!

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[trout007]

You misspelled communism.

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha yeah. Frickin' China, man, it's crazy.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/north-carolina-bans-latest-science-rising-sea-level/story?id=16913782

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[guestapoo]

And here I thought only the USA had the best government money can buy.

Billionaire Lawmakers Ensure the Rich Are Represented in China’s Legislature
It seems that Chinese is trying to copy USA, but "building" bigger model. They are now going to build their military structure from USA model (of course, with more soldiers), they already copied the USA highway system, but with larger road, and more lanes.

Chinese long term thinking

[ErichTheRed]

I think it's been mentioned before that China is moving a lot of its rural population into cities to allow them to provide government services more efficiently, as well as create a larger consumer culture. At the same time, one of the only stable stores of wealth for Chinese is real estate. As many articles lately have mentioned, the stock market is even more speculative than ours and not suitable for long term investing. The only issue now is filling all these empty spaces so the original investors can get their money out.

We'll see what they have in mind for this next phase, but China has been remarkably good at long term central planning. It's something missing in Western countries -- the full control of authoritarianism while doing anything necessary to grow the economy. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Re:Chinese long term thinking

[Joe_Dragon]

But they also have been cutting costs alot and letting things go without good upkeep. How well thing go at full load?

Re:Chinese long term thinking

[quantaman]

I think it's been mentioned before that China is moving a lot of its rural population into cities to allow them to provide government services more efficiently, as well as create a larger consumer culture. At the same time, one of the only stable stores of wealth for Chinese is real estate. As many articles lately have mentioned, the stock market is even more speculative than ours and not suitable for long term investing. The only issue now is filling all these empty spaces so the original investors can get their money out.

We'll see what they have in mind for this next phase, but China has been remarkably good at long term central planning. It's something missing in Western countries -- the full control of authoritarianism while doing anything necessary to grow the economy. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Rather it's been very short term thinking, doing massive infrastructure projects of only marginal usefulness in order to maintain 10% economic growth and avoid a recession for reasons of political stability.

Do you really think they planned for massive empty cities? What do you think happens to big empty buildings? They don't hold their value.

Re:Chinese long term thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

Essentially this.

Building large grand new cities for people to live in and knocking down the old and busted ones is actually a good idea for many reasons.
Of course, there is one major drawback, the hassle of moving in the first place as well as destroying old architecture that cannot be easily and cheaply preserved and moved to a new home.

I'd rather there be limits on city heights though, at least in certain areas of them. 3-5 floors at best.
As you get larger, things just get more gloomy.
It's not like they are building 3D cities, they are still, in essence, 2.5D cities. All the pathways are at ground level.
If they actually build 3D cities, my opinion would take a 180, I fully support that idea. Construction of them is a bit more costly though since it needs hardier materials to support building-to-building roads, even at an average 2-3lane distance. (but for it to not be a hellhole, it'd need to be wider, not happening)
Since you can't do the whole middle-pillar deal, you need to do the standard bridge-support system with pillars or supports coming from the banks. Needs more high tension wires.
Obviously you would put all the heavy traffic on the ground.
It is possible. China, of all places, is the one that could do it.
Don't ruin my dreams China! Be the first, make a true 3D city!

Re:Chinese long term thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

China has been remarkably good at long term central planning

Indeed, and wasting hundreds of billions of dollars each year is a key part of good central planning. After all, it's not a waste if you're in the business of government, spending other people's money.

NK ones when Kim Jong Un goes to far

[Joe_Dragon]

NK ones when Kim Jong Un goes to far and they all rush the border.

Stupid is as stupid posts

[TiggertheMad]

Goddamn you are stupid. Do you actually think this is what is happening?

If your theory is correct, then why didn't these dirt poor freeloaders move out of the Middle East say, five years ago? Why aren't there hundreds of millions of poor people constantly trying to move to richer countries? They aren't.

Turn in your trolling merit badge, are terrible at it.

Re:Stupid is as stupid posts

[swb]

It does beg the question why they don't stop as soon as they are out of immediate peril, like in Turkey or Greece.

Sure, if you're escaping a hellhole you want to make sure to end up someplace nice, but it does seem like there's a bit of opportunism there, taking advantage of the sense of peril to make sure you do end up someplace nice.

Re:Stupid is as stupid posts

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, they should have stopped when they are out of peril in Turkey. Exactly like they have been doing for the past few years, which is exactly the problem because there is suddenly a few million more people in one country in the wonderful situation of lack of immediate peril. That's a wonderful and stable situation to continue Your life and raise Your kids. Refugee camps are the best. It's like camping, but in really shitty and crowded conditions.

What Is The Purpose?

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the purpose of building these "ghost cities"? Blocks or cities of vacant housing don't make sense. Why are they being built in such seemingly large numbers?

Re:What Is The Purpose?

[AHuxley]

Re "What is the purpose of building these "ghost cities"? Blocks or cities of vacant housing don't make sense. Why are they being built in such seemingly large numbers?"
The wages of the people building, designing a city was seen as a good spend. Better to have them enjoying a days work, offer of advanced skills, new materials and local experts.
Over time it was felt that any created city would fill up as heavy production in the area would need workers and workers like clean, new homes with other workers around them.
Add in hospitals, clubs, bars, water treatment, government workers needs, office workers, public transport - everything was designed and set out to new standards.
The "seemingly large numbers" was to help the local export economy with cheap workers, new jobs or just relocate people as traditional cities got redesigned only for the very rich.
So mostly jobs, workers needs, expanding traditional wealthy city concepts that could move poor relocated people a new cheap ready city areas. The part that was missed was "community".

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[plopez]

More like state capitalism, aka fascism.

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[Anonymous Coward]

... because someone might lose money ...

My country has a similar policy: No-one wants to address sky-high property prices because then all the current property owners will lose money. There is a very real possibility that mortgagees paying sky-high prices will walk away from 'undervalued' assets. Another problem is foreign investment, which is meant to be limited to new buildings but no-one is checking so the sky-high prices must be caused by sudden urbanization. Foreign investment does benefit the construction industry but no-one is calculating if the high cost of property is producing a economic loss via reduced liquidity and inflation. GDP isn't a zero-sum game so higher prices all round make the economy look good and the government richer.

The 80s is when the projects went to hell

[rsilvergun]

it's also when all the social programs got defunded. Reagan turned back the clock on what FDR had started. Bush Sr & Clinton continued that ( he never really cared about anything except being prez) and Bush Jr ramped it up into full gear so he could give the money to his cronies.

Re:The 80s is when the projects went to hell

[Anonymous Coward]

it's also when all the social programs got defunded

Bullshit. No housing project ever succeeded. Now days they try to mix Section 8 housing into otherwise good communities, which results in nothing but increased crime. I've seen it first hand.

Re:The 80s is when the projects went to hell

[LynnwoodRooster]

Looks flat to me, rather than decreasing. Considering that unemployment lowered during the 80s as well, I'd say a flat level of expenditures on entitlements would be expected.

Re:The 80s is when the projects went to hell

[Zak3056]

it's also when all the social programs got defunded

Bullshit. No housing project ever succeeded. Now days they try to mix Section 8 housing into otherwise good communities, which results in nothing but increased crime. I've seen it first hand.

Which is a huge shame, since Section 8 (the way it was originally intended) should be one of the most successful welfare programs in US history, and one any conservative could get behind.

The original section 8 families were carefully screened and selected to find people who didn't want a hand out, but a hand up, with the intent of getting them out of bad neighborhoods and into an environment they could thrive. It was wildly successful in achieving its aims, and was actually a fairly inexpensive program. It was expanded drastically because of its success, and the criteria for entry into the program were lowered, with its original aims lost in the bureaucratic mess. Today, as you point out, it's just a way of exporting poverty and crime into previously stable neighborhoods (see Memphis for an example). It has also gone from being something that was a short term boost into a long term lifestyle.

They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and Section 8 is proof of that.

Re:The 80s is when the projects went to hell

[DutchUncle]

I'm inclined to blame the Republicans because they have had a consistent approach of overloading programs until they break, then point at the broken thing and say "Government doesn't work". Since they could neither stop nor kill Social Security, they added more and more beneficiary categories to help it go broke faster; same approach with other social programs, and I expect them to do the same turnaround on Obamacare. From an abstract games-theory standpoint, it's interestingly similar to Microsoft's embrace-and-extend approach to standards ("Oh, yes, we use the standard PLUS a few bonus things we think were helpful . .").

Re:The 80s is when the projects went to hell

[Zak3056]

I'm inclined to blame the Republicans

This is decidedly unhelpful, and is part of the reason that we can't have nice things.

Oddly enough, everything related to Section 8, from inception until the present day, happened under a republican president with a democratic congress

yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

There are refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan. Much closer, nicer weather, and friendlier locals. I'd much rather be outside in Jordan, than in Germany in the winter.

It wasn't public knowledge that foreigners could get free money by being in Germany. Now it is.

Re:yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, Lebanon, which accepted over a million refugees now in a country of five million. Or Jordan, with 1.5 million refugees with 8 million locals. That's really a stable situation.

The big assumption here is

[Anonymous Coward]

The big assumption here is that the people absent from the results, are also absent from the area, and not that they may not have access the technology and or don't access the Baidu website. I would have though that a census would give a far more accurate representation of population densities.

So no return in China's property market

[MrKaos]

Thanks for the investment advice.

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[LynnwoodRooster]

Which has been the typical result of every communist country (self-declared communist, at that) ever.

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[dbIII]

It's an old tradition with examples like the San Francisco "fire" because worries about earthquakes would drive down property values - but the realestate ghouls couldn't get the label to stick.
Some people who want to sell stuff are scum the world over and would prefer to hide any fact that reduces a sale price. Put some of those people in government, especially a very autocratic one like China, and the obvious happens.
There is hope though. A crackdown on corruption has been so effective that a side effect is casinos around the world that do business with Chinese government types on holiday are hurting. The amount of money laundering was staggering, and how much is still being ripped off is a mystery but it's a lot less than it was.

Unlisted ghost cities = military bases?

[Anonymous Coward]

Somebody paid for construction and don't want people to be detected. Maybe they're actually military bases?

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[Anonymous Coward]

This is how China operates! Only good news is reported. Bad news is not.

News in America tends to be negative and one of the following:
1) For the purposes of ratings. If the story will bring in viewers, they will cover it.
2) For the purposes to push a political ideology. I.E. The Faux news channel and other conservative outlets speak with nearly one voice when they want to push a particular viewpoint, facts be damned if that viewpoint is based on truth or not. I.E. Benghazi. Of course there are some liberal versions that are nearly as bad. Biased news is certainly not helpful to the American people, regardless of the form.

Sure there are some unbiased news sources, but they are small players, and not really treated seriously. NPR can be a good source in my opinion, and more neutral than many, even though it does have an obvious leftish tilt. Of course, it is treated as a propaganda channel by the right, which it is not. As far as truly neutral sources go, I think C-span likely qualifies, and well, I recall once seeing japanese news coverage of american news at one point..

If mainstream news channels were actually unbiased they would focus more on real problems not fake controversies and such. For instance, if most of the mainstream news channels spent as much time on the unfairness of redistricting as fox news does on Benghazi, then we might finally get nationwide support for districts being drawn by a simple non political algorithm which would make general elections matter more and primaries less, but we can't have that.... It might weaken the stranglehold...

That put's Europe as ghost countries

[Anonymous Coward]

Less than 5000 ppl per km2, that would put most of European cities as ghost cities. The density criteria is, hu, not the most relevant, to put it nicely. Occupation rate of less than 5 years old building would be a better criteria.

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[Anonymous Coward]

And when has capitalism been all about facts?

*crickets*

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[BitZtream]

You're totally right. Being on one of the most prominent news sites in the world is exactly like hiding it completely and not telling any one.

Someone should ban you.

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[BitZtream]

The Faux news

Kind of like how your post is being used to push your own political agenda.

Ironic that you're trying to be all high and mighty about Fox's shitty practice while at the same time doing the exact thing you're whining about.

Next you demonstrate you clearly have no fucking clue how districting works and why its like it is.

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[UnknownSoldier]

Wow.

I guess you can fix ignorant but you can't fix stupid.

Re:Oh noes, can't have anything threating land pri

[Anonymous Coward]

The Faux news

Kind of like how your post is being used to push your own political agenda.

Ironic that you're trying to be all high and mighty about Fox's shitty practice while at the same time doing the exact thing you're whining about.

Next you demonstrate you clearly have no fucking clue how districting works and why its like it is.

Insult's without substance then wild accusations about not knowing how redistributing works. Fox news viewers are in general going to be poorly informed. Propaganda will do that. Of course CNN viewers are probably likely to be poorly informed too, but in that case it is mostly lack of substance. MSNBC no doubt has way more propaganda as well the other way, though they are at least fairly ineffective.

Yes redistributing is often a blatant political process, but it does not need to be. Are both sides guilty of it. Yes they are. Does it need to end? Yes it does, because having elections settled in a primary is a very bad thing. It leads to extreme candidates that do not put the country first.

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #1/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

Where'd I say it? Show us (not illogic logic but where I literally said it). I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there in my security guide.

Fact: You shoot your mouth off lying about it & me, hmmm?

(It's your mentally damaged goods assburgers brain acting up trying to put words in my mouth I never said? Yes...)

---

Where did I say I don't use DNS too?

Clue: I do & detailed it for you AGAIN (via my std. post on DNS vs. hosts) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

---

"You must really suck at programming" - by Coren22 on Monday November 23, 2015

What've you programmed? Other /.'ers disagree:

"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)

"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)

"No complaints from me, I like APK's spam. Reminds me to use a host file. Also, his stuff is free." - by aaaaaaargh! (1150173) on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @09:31AM (#50947415)

APK

P.S.=> Con't. in 2/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #2/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"figured out why privilege escalation's a bad thing?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

How else can I programmatically update hosts itself?

---

"it requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

Hypocrite later admits it!

Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware DEMANDS it or it can't do a job fully like many security tools!

---

"Needing admin privileges every time a program updates is poor design" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Mine doesn't to get new data to update hosts vs. threats. Only hosts itself updates need it vs. WFP/SFP. Users set it too. It's not programmatic impersonation.

---

"90's tech to fight modern war" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Ozymandias/Watchmen per a namesake:

"I resolved to apply antiquities teachings" (hosts) "to our world today & began my path to conquest - Conquest not of men but of the evils that beset them: Fossil Fuels (antispyware), Oil (antivir), Nuclear Power (addons) are like a drug & you gentlemen along w/ foreign interests are the pushers"

It works Aryeh Goretsky NOD32/ESET hosts = good security-> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...

Oliver Day (Symantec) too-> http://www.securityfocus.com/c...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts' Admin hosts + RECOMMENDS my APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-2 32/64-bit-> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

APK

P.S.=> Con't. in #3/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #3/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

62 reputable sources + /. users say different:

Safe by 57 antivirus programs in 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

the 32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Per VirScan (installer too)-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

---

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

(& he certified my source http://slashdot.org/comments.p... - he wouldn't host it, much less recommend it, minus that...) /.'ers say my work is good too:

"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)

"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)

"No complaints from me, I like APK's spam. Reminds me to use a host file. Also, his stuff is free." - by aaaaaaargh! (1150173) on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @09:31AM (#50947415)

APK

P.S.=> Con't in part #4/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #4/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"His newest post is trying to refute that MiTM attack opportunity his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

I DISPROVED it: Hardcoded favs users provide themselves are REVERSE DNS verified & my program filters 5,500++ false positives:

1.) Search engines
2.) Antivirus (e.g. updaters)
3.) Security community sites
4.) Captchas, brower home pages + download pages
5.) Ebay/Amazon (shopper & banking)

(Security community I get hosts data from do false positives filters in current data + removal lists).

---

"won't demonstrate security of his product be exposing the source (someone might steal it!)" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

"the secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code and said it looked all good to them" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

My ware went thru code verification by Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes' hpHosts

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

A competent coder & BEST security researcher I know of FROM THE BEST ANTIMALWARE THERE IS http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

NOT a secretary!

---

YOU BLEW IT ON ADMIN PRIV TOO: My program doesn't require it hosts does (WFP/SFP): my program protects hosts beyond it!

I.E.-> I run manually minus admin priv & drag result to hosts naming it "hosts" overwriting original.

Only auto update needs it (WFP/SFP) & users set it themselves in program shortcut: Not programmatic impersonation.

---

DNS introduces a SECURITY ISSUE RIDDLED SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE & doesn't secure down to endpoints on a LAN -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

How I use remote filtering DNS combined w/ hosts is there showing many DNS security issues hosts overcome.

APK

P.S.=> Con't in part #5/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #5/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"Virus scanners/Adblock software don't need admin priv to update" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Neither does my program. AV does to remove threats - Adblock addons = Vastly INFERIOR in abilities + efficiency vs. hosts as I proved & no one proved me wrong to date!

---

"your software does" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

No hosts do (WFP/SFP) - Intake update of new hosts data doesn't!

---

"won't reveal your source code" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

I don't owe you it. I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

---

"What's stopping you from pointing my bank's web site at your private server?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

I don't keep a server. Security guru (not - you create no ware for security & your forensics skills = non-existent): Put it in a VM, trace it via process monitor + wireshark (don't need code)!

---

"the possibility of being caught, which would be pretty hard to catch w/ such a large hosts file, as no one can go through it manually." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

I put hardcoded fav sites @ top of hosts for speed & reliabilty - spotted easily & bulk of hosts = sorted blocked known bad threats provided by the security community (filtered vs. 5,500++ false positive possibles in my program & by current security community data).

---

"What are you going to do when Windows gets rid of the hosts file completely?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Hasn't happened!

---

"They have already taken steps to make it useless in Windows 10." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

It works there!

Telemetry's killed 10 by itself: VISTA = Win10 = Win8 = flops - who're you fooling other than yourself?

APK

P.S.=> Con't. in #6/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #6/6

[Anonymous Coward]

Coren22 'eats his words' vs. me 2x yet again:

"introduces risk you are relying on a 3rd party to update a hosts file potentially opening you up to MITM attacks" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

How? My prog puts entries in as non-blocking to hostnames on ones users give it as favs to speed up @ TOP of hosts REVERSE DNS VERIFIED!

(For more speed, & reliability + security - in RAM as 1st resolver queried = faster & more secure vs. remote DNS w/ all its security issues in Kaminsky flaw, DNSChanger malware IP stack settings, routers bushwhacked in DNS settings, rogue DNS, Open DNS servers abused by malware. It aids in reliability vs. redirects).

YOU'D SPOT IT INSTANTLY @ TOP OF CUSTOM HOSTS & can easily edit anything you want out!

(Rest = known bad sites from 10 reputable security community sites for blocking - the MAJORITY of what's in my hosts files!)

+ my sources do removal lists vs. false positives & helped me create a "FP" filter in my program (5,500++ of them)!

---

"maybe one day you can get a score 5 comment" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

See subject & ~ 12 +5 upmods: "Eat your words" (1st one: You tried using what I post there against me to FAIL):

+5 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (11):

http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://science.slashdot.org/co...
http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...
http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...
http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...
http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

"You believe you are getting the better of me" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

YOU GOT THE BEST OF YOURSELF in fails & lies about me. Your immature signatures about me SCREAM you're butthurt - Did it to yourself.

APK

P.S.=> You fail Coren22... apk