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New Book Sold Out Offers a Look At the H-1B Debate
theodp writes: The New York Post has published an excerpt from
Sold Out: How High-Tech Billionaires and Bipartisan Beltway Crapweasels Are Screwing America's Best and Brightest Workers, a new book on the H-1B debate from conservative syndicated columnist Michelle Malkin and programmer-turned-attorney John Miano. "Sold Out," notes a Computerworld review, "clearly has a point a view about the program (crapweasels, for instance), but it backs up its assertions and gives H-1B supporters a high threshold to cross. A serious argument in defense of the visa program requires explaining how America gains when a U.S. worker is replaced by a foreign visa holder hired to do the exact same job. If you are going to justify the H-1B program, then you have to defend firms that force their employees (no severance otherwise) to train their replacements. That may be the point here. This book lays bare the replacement process, the broad use of the H-1B visa by the IT offshore outsourcing industry, and the lobbying effort in Washington to minimalize the visa's use in displacing U.S. workers." With anecdotes like "how Microsoft wined and dined the Bush administration to expand the foreign worker supply through administrative fiat to circumvent public disclosure and congressional debate," the book seeks out a broader audience than just those already familiar with the H-1B issue.
That title definitely makes this book sound like it takes a balanced and objective viewpoint of the situation, with both sides of the argument covered.
If the book is "sold out", then how are we supposed to read it? /s
As a former hiring manager for a lager fortune 500 company, whose ass is on the line to finish projects on time, I can assure you, I was not looking for the cheapest hire, but, the most qualified hire. I desperately looked for software engineers with experience in the area of embedded systems and some amount of networking knowledge, but, who are excellent C programmers. For the several positions I recruited for, I could not get a single qualified resume. The good ones don't want to do any C/Linux/Unix programming and are more interested in App or web development for startups. We were paying competitive market rates, with excellent benefits, but, I did not have much luck hiring any good candidates in the Silicon Valley. I completely open to hiring anyone regardless of age, sex, nationality, diability, etc. Being myself an immigrant, I felt bad that I was much more harsh in reviewing the applicants who required H1B and put them at the end of the pile. Believe, me it is much more work for the hiring manager and the company has to spend a lot more to hire a H1B candidate.
What people generally confuse is the abuses perpetuated by the so called body shopping companies, whose primary intent is to get people with some random degree from overseas and try to place them in a position in the US. In contrast, the people who are directly recruited by the large companies as their full time employees, are no different than any other full time employee in that company.
In my opinion, what should happen is, the US congress should close the "body shopping" loophole in the H1B and allow for skill based immigration, instead of H1B.
Exactly. Hahaha it's just funny when the chickens come home to roost, that's all. All the technology workers who just though they were so fucking clever by automating the shit out of everything, costing millions their livelihoods, and now when the cannon turns and points at us, we start crying foul. Too late! We've set the train in motion, there isn't any stopping it now. Don't you know the people in the corner offices always, always win? And we helped them.
Amazingly this is the only book for sale at Amazon with the word "Crapweasels" in the title.
Caveat: I'm Canadian.
I don't get it. This whole "H1-B is an evil scam!" moral panic seems to me to be just another aspect of the virulent anti-immigration bigotry that has republicans screaming: "They're taking our jobs!" (as if *any* USian is going to pick fruit for less than minimum wage!)
I'm a software engineer at a large multinational, and we've been trying to find qualified candidates for software positions, but we're having a REALLY hard time. There just aren't any qualified people available. This idea that there are competent, qualified STEM people out there who are being denied jobs by the H1-B program just doesn't seem to jive with reality.
Everytime we post job openings, we get *swamped* by applications, so yeah, there are tons of people out there *looking* for STEM jobs. The problem is that the unemployed people applying are deservedly unemployed!. For the most part, it's because they're bloody incompetent - the vast majority fail the interviews despite appearing qualified on their resume. The rest are people who have fundamental misunderstandings of what constitutes "software development": I can't tell you how many people we've had apply for web development jobs who think that knowing DreamWeaver and Photoshop makes them qualified!
For the most part, our new hires are already employed developers making a lateral move from their current employer (for whatever reason).
With respect to other software developers who I know personally, any that I would be comfortable hiring are *already* employed, with good reason. Those software developers who I know personally that are unemployed I wouldn't allow to work on ANY project I was associated with even if they paid me for the privilege!
If H1-Bs are "Taking our jobs!", then *WHERE* in the hell are all the unemployed, competent, software developers this would create? Their absence is suspicious - they just don't seem to be out there.
The last hundred pages of this book could be an endorsement of dog raping and only ten people would notice.
But those ten people will tell everyone, and then the pooch is screwed.
Renting cheap apartments, maybe buy a car. Of course, that means rent goes up, and used car prices.
One culturally-related element of this is that most of the Indians I know in the US, highly value family and education (and properly-prepared food, incidentally). As such, I suspect many H1-B parents are instinctively motivated to apply continuous pressure to the local schools to ensure the curriculum is rigorous and the environment is conducive to learning.
And who knows? The school lunches might improve too.
That title definitely makes this book sound like it takes a balanced and objective viewpoint of the situation, with both sides of the argument covered.
There seems to be a cultural shift in recent decades where you can't make a clear argument any more.
This starts with journalism, where "balanced reporting" initially meant that news organizations couldn't show only one side of a controversial issue (abortion, roughly 50% of Americans on one side or the other), and has progressed to where "balanced" journalism includes giving equal air time to climate change deniers (less than 3% of scientists), ESP and paranormal believers, and other completely fringe views.
To be completely fair, about 40% of Americans believe in Creationism, so it's probably OK that this gets equal billing. The point isn't about the beliefs per-se, it's about journalists unwilling to choose a side. Equal billing tends to prop up failing modes of thought.
I've read numerous books and papers that posit a claim and then cite evidence to support that claim... I *thought* that's how science debate worked. For example, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind does precisely this: establish a point, then bolster it with reams and reams (well, one ream - 512 pages) of evidence.
Why does someone with a position to argue need to lay out both sides of an argument?
That's not how human perception works. We rely on experts to sort through the information we don't have time or expertise to deal with.
What's wrong with making a clear point in a book tagline?
Reduce the cost of labor instead of raising minimum wage.
High labor costs accelerate and, more importantly, compact the removal of jobs, while slowing the reuptake of jobs. Jobs always reduce: we've come from every single individual requiring 15-20 labor-hours per week to acquire food (that means a population of 1,000 people needs 20,000 working-hours per week to feed it) to a society where 2% of workers are ag and we expend 27 labor-hours per year producing food (so a population of 1,000 people needs 520 working-hours per week to feed itself). With the spare time, we've been able to build roads, cars, space ships.
The Industrial Revolution shows us an important model: machines suddenly became cheap, and the 479 labor-hours going into making clothes immediately dropped to 96 labor-hours--80% unemployment even 60 years later. What would today be a $4,000 shirt ($8.75/hr * 479) is now a $15 shirt, as we've improved the manufacture processes to use even less labor-time. Back then, that $4,000 shirt became an $800 shirt; most of the consumer base vanished--not for shirts, but for food and everything else--and much of the economy fell apart.
Contrast that to agriculture or car manufacture. In 1970, India was producing 2 tonnes of rice per hectare and selling for $500 per tonne; by 2001, they were making 6 tonnes per hectare at cost so low the sale price had dropped to below $200/tonne--note that inflation would have raised that $500 to over $3,000 in 2001, and so India was investing less than 6% labor per tonne of rice produced in 2001, compared to 1970. That transition occurred spread over 30 years.
During the spread transition, jobs were lost, and rice became cheaper. A few jobs lost--3% in one year is kind of rough, but that's only 3% of the agricultural sector and much less of the whole market--and a whole shitload of consumers (over 99% of the market) facing cheaper food meant they had almost a whole population with more money to spend. Find a way to make a product with little enough labor and you can sell it to those consumers, pay your workers, and come away with captured profits. Looking at the Industrial Revolution, we can conjecture this works less well when only a fifth of your population still has jobs.
What can we take away from this?
Alternate management--geoshifting jobs (H1-B or outsource to India), automation (outsource to machines), or rearrangement (cellular manufacture uses less labor than assembly lines, which are less labor-intensive than guilds and artisans)--transfers your labor needs to another form. That form often takes less or lower-priced (cost) direct labor, but may require more total labor (e.g. the machines are expensive, or QA to try and make standard measures work in 803BC is ridiculously labor-intensive thanks to undeveloped technological capabilities). If it takes more total labor, then you're paying someone more--the machines are expensive, you just hire real people.
By this, reducing the cost of labor at least delays the transition to geoshifting or automation (less outsourcing, fewer machines, for a while).
With the march of technology on a low-cost labor market, early adopters will get screwed. Your strategic adopters will recognize $10/hr labor vs $8/hr machines, but also notice the machines coming down in price: if they invest $25 million in a 30-year machine that will cost $8/hr to maintain now, they'll find themselves less-advantaged as if they wait up to 5 years for a cost range of $6/hr or lower, and so will decide how much risk they're willing to take and will jump into the automation game at that point. You get traditionalists who wait until their business nearly collapses, too.
By this, spiking labor costs *rapidly* moves labor to cheaper sources (including automation and H1-B): a $15/hr laborer versus a $10/hr machine is more encouraging to the entrepreneur considering a mechanized labor force. Lower labor costs *spread* the loss of jobs.
Lower labor costs translate, eventually, into
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Since many of us work in IT, the widespread, unchecked abuse of the H1B program has had an overwhelming negative effect on many /.ers, so it's no surprise that it would be reported on frequently. I find it strange that you'd complain about the number of posts on the topic, but not the rampant fucking over of IT workers.
Writhe your naked ass to the mindless groove.
Ahh....let us know when you start leaving everything unlocked and leave all of your assets for use by others.
1331461 is only semiprime *sigh* Alas - I am just short of 1337.
OK, I'm pretty left leaning, but unfortunately the conservatives appear to be the only ones attacking this issue at all. I think that's just because it doesn't affect "average people" yet, but it's creeping that way slowly.
I posted a piece the other day about Cengage Learning kicking out their entire IT department to Cognizant and forcing their "unskilled, unqualified" staff to train their H-1B replacements. Here's the deal -- nothing is going to get done until some of us become "beltway crapweasels" and buy favorable legislation through a professional organization. Not a union, an AMA-style guild dedicated to making sure salaries stay reasonably high and employment remains stable. Every single one of these Zuckerberg "everyone can code" initiatives or pushes to increase the visa cap is designed to get what these companies want - cheap labor.
I walk the employee-manager line in a "lead" role, so I have to hire staff as well as do actual work. (I'm a pretty well-seasoned systems integration guy with a solid reputation, if that matters.) I'm not entirely deaf to the "we can't find talent" argument, but I do think it's overblown. Even if you're not looking for a drop-in replacement for someone who left, and I'm not, there are some pretty big gaps in knowledge. Nothing is insurmountable given the right attitude and background, but I've seen lots of padded resumes and people who call themselves "expert level" without any justification for that label. It makes the hiring process frustrating because you have to wade through the obvious liars, then phone-screen the people who might be somewhat close, and then still interview a bunch of duds.
Being "experienced," I don't like the trend of entry level IT and dev jobs going away, because that kills your talent pipeline. I like the idea of a professional organization for the following reasons:
- If done right, it could ensure a basic vendor-agnostic, technology-agnostic fundamental education for members. No more "web architects" who can only stich together node.js snippets they saw on Stack Overflow or MCSEs who can't troubleshoot basic TCP connectivity.
- Gives members a career progression while still allowing them to be individuals -- makes the Libertarian crowd happy.
- Unlike a union, each member would be their own person rather than bargaining collectively.
- Gives employers a consistent experience and recourse in the case of malpractice -- professionals would need to be responsible for their work, which is sorely lacking today.
- Allows members to buy favorable legislation via lobbyists. I can't imagine Congressmen would turn down millions in campaign donations in exchange for a few limits on the H-1B program.
- Provides a pipeline of newbies to train as apprentices so companies aren't reliant on these offshoring firms for basic work in the future.
I just don't know how bad it's going to get before people wake up and realize they're not going to become billionaires just because they let them get away with things like this.
When the H1B bill was passed in 1998 it set a reasonable for the time exemption pay of $60,000 pr year. Paying a H1B employee more than $60k let the employer bypass the no displaced worker requirement. At the time you could almost fall out of a tree and get an IT job. Workers were hard to find and H1B filled a need.
Now here we are 17 years later and the $60k threshold has never been adjusted for inflation. What was once a tool to protect US workers is now a low wage target off shore outsourcing company's use to bid low ball IT contracts that displace US workers.
Adjusted for inflation the limit should be closer to $90,000 in 2015 dollars. Congress needs to bring the H1B minimum pay back into balance with today's job market.
If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. --Red Adair
Indians do not value education. If they did, we wouldn't need to teach them how write a while loop their first day on the job (yes, I've actually had to do this and similar first-semester-level training on more than one occasion). You're thinking of China and Japan.
Writhe your naked ass to the mindless groove.
What a coincidence, David called me the other day and helped me fix my Windows system. I'm really glad he called as I wasn't aware that my system was broken. He was even so kind as to take over the screen to do the fixes himself so I didn't have to type in stuff. Actually, it's really cool because now, when I log onto my bank account online, it seems to know my password so I don't have to type it in again -- very convenient, a definite upgrade and he didn't even charge me extra for that feature. I strongly recommend you take advantage of David's services should he call you.
Michelle Malkin has the credibility of a ... a .. um .. a "crapweasel."
Why can't an actual journalist have written this?
Hopelessly pedantic since 1963.
Not necessarily, because if they call and absolutely need you in the office, they can not say "be there in 10-20 minutes".
and quit bitching. You literally just said outright that you have qualified applicants ("The good ones"). They're working for startups because it's better for them. If you want to get them from the start ups pay more. A lot more.
/. these days...
The other option is to train people and retain them (that's "retain", not "retrain"). That means you don't get to pay someone for 9 months and ship 'em back to India when you're done. You keep them for that 3 months between projects. What India gets you are on demand workers trained to do EXACTLY what you want them to do and trained CHEAPLY. You used to pay through the nose for those guys because they worked for you for 9 months and then spent 3 months off. They spent a good chunk of that 3 months updating their skills, and lived off the excess you paid them ( including paying their own health benefits). You don't like doing that because it's expensive. Stop hiding behind "There are no qualified applicants". That's bullshit and you know it (like I said, you said so in your post).
Jeez, the crap that gets modded up on
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and a bit of a social safety net left. In America our medical care, access to financial help when unemployed, credit and pretty much all other aspects related to our quality of life it tied to our jobs. It's something we did in the 50s, I forget why (IIRC it wasn't for the sake of evil, it just turned out that way). I've seen several jobs outsourced to Canada because health care is so pricey for businesses here it's a better deal even with your taxes being higher (which are usually negotiable for a business anyway).
Basically there aren't a lot of middle class jobs left, and the only way to go here is down. 62% of us live paycheck to paycheck. We're one layoff away from homelessness.
Also, we've gutted our school system and training. Actually, it's sounding like you're doing that too. 20 years ago we'd just train people to do what you're asking for. It's really not hard. But it would cost money. Why spend it when there's a guy in India who already has that training and was living off $2/day while he was getting it. Sure, a lot of his buddies dropped out because they got a girl preggers, or were drunk, or died from lack of health care or just couldn't make it. But with 3 billion people you can burn through a lot of human misery on your way to that cheap, fully trained H1-B.
Those of us in America who are smart see what life is like in India for those guys that didn't make it, see how many of them there are and realize it could be us. We're just one undetected congenital heart disease away. All of us are. Some of us Americans kid ourselves, say we're the 'alphas' in our lot. That's just to make us feel better. The real alphas haven't noticed. Their tall, good looking, have their hair and are VPs. You've got some of those too in Canada. You're 1%ers have noticed how much more money ours make, and they're coming after you. I think you noticed though and it looks like you voted some of 'em out last election. Good for you.
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