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Prison Hack Shows Attorney-Client Privilege Violation (theintercept.com)

Advocatus Diaboli writes with this excerpt from The Intercept: An enormous cache of phone records obtained by The Intercept reveals a major breach of security at Securus Technologies, a leading provider of phone services inside the nation's prisons and jails. The materials — leaked via SecureDrop by an anonymous hacker who believes that Securus is violating the constitutional rights of inmates — comprise over 70 million records of phone calls, placed by prisoners to at least 37 states, in addition to links to downloadable recordings of the calls. The calls span a nearly two-and-a-half year period, beginning in December 2011 and ending in the spring of 2014."

"Particularly notable within the vast trove of phone records are what appear to be at least 14,000 recorded conversations between inmates and attorneys, a strong indication that at least some of the recordings are likely confidential and privileged legal communications — calls that never should have been recorded in the first place. The recording of legally protected attorney-client communications — and the storage of those recordings — potentially offends constitutional protections, including the right to effective assistance of counsel and of access to the courts.

34 of 190 comments (clear)

  1. In line with current US thinking by fruviad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Constitutional rights? Bah! Who needs 'em!" seems to be the watchword of the new millenium.

    //unless they're gun rights, of course. The gun nuts get everything they want.

    1. Re:In line with current US thinking by MatthiasF · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, people do not stop being US Citizens or human beings simply because they are incarcerated. Some might have their voting rights revoked for felonies (to stop them from supporting the legalization of their crime, which was a serious problem in the distant past), but they are still afforded almost every other right of their fellow citizens.

    2. Re:In line with current US thinking by TWX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Got a citation for the claim that felons voting to legalize their crimes was a problem in the past?

      Because the way I see it, if there is such a broad danger that a crime won't be a crime if there are enough criminals to support removing it from law, then perhaps it shouldn't be a crime.

      Or putting it another way, if criminals can form enough of a voting bloc to where they make for a significant impact on politics, then perhaps we have made crimes of too many behaviors.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    3. Re:In line with current US thinking by nitehawk214 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, being incarcerated is proof you are a criminal, therefore you don't need rights or due process?

      Perfect, just lock everyone up without a warrant. Then use the fact they were locked up as proof they are criminals.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    4. Re:In line with current US thinking by orlanz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      locked up

      therefore

      don't... deserve

      This is the shit kind of logic that messes up our society. There is no room in there to think that _maybe_ someone is locked up incorrectly. You are guilty because you are locked up, you are locked up because you are guilty. The logic assumes so much about the perfection of our justice system is or the powers that can control our lives. With that as a starting point, what margin is there to question the leaders, or the laws, or to give second chances.

    5. Re:In line with current US thinking by Vlad_the_Inhaler · · Score: 2

      I read recently that the conviction rate in Russia nowadays is something over 97%. No - I don't remember the url because the only lesson I drew from that was never to go there.

      --
      Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
    6. Re:In line with current US thinking by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      they are inmates so considering that being locked up has already been deemed acceptable based on what they've done, don't be thinking they deserve the same rights as an inmate as you and i do on the outside

      Important distinction to keep in mind here: "Securus Technologies" provides phone service/wiretapping to both jails and prisons. People in prison have been convicted of something. You can(and people frequently do), end up in jail if you cannot afford to post bail, or if the court refuses to allow release on bail, pending your trial.

      Aside from more general concerns, that is perhaps the most worrisome population: can't make bail, or don't have the option, so they are presumably mostly poor and/or suspected of something gruesome; and are stuck in jail so have few options for coordinating their upcoming trial with their lawyers aside from using the phone or hoping that their(probably less than stellar and somewhat overworked) legal representation can squeeze all the necessary prep into the jail's visiting hours and policies.

      If they are laboring under all those advantages and prosecutors get to listen to their calls to their attorney, apparently without bothering to disclose this fact, it's hard to even pretend that something remotely close to justice is being done.

      There are some legitimate purposes for keeping an eye on prison phone calls(coordinating witness tampering, relaying instructions to confederates who remain outside, organizing smuggling operations into the prison, etc. are hardly unknown uses of the phone); but do not forget that the incarcerated population includes pre-trial detainees, who have not been found guilty of anything in a court of law yet; and the call metadata and recordings(which apparently have no particular retention limit) are not restricted to use in combating illegal conduct, prison contraband, witness intimidation, etc; but for any purposes that people with access to them see fit. Perhaps most...delightful...is Securus' own "Threads" technology: an intelligence product specifically designed to use call data to associate inmates with the non-incarcerated, so that police can more effectively focus on them. If the poor bastards in jail pre-trial aren't enough, the "More than 600,000 people with billing name and address (not incarcerated)" might object to the fact that they are part of Securus' product.

    7. Re:In line with current US thinking by myowntrueself · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Got a citation for the claim that felons voting to legalize their crimes was a problem in the past?

      Because the way I see it, if there is such a broad danger that a crime won't be a crime if there are enough criminals to support removing it from law, then perhaps it shouldn't be a crime.

      Or putting it another way, if criminals can form enough of a voting bloc to where they make for a significant impact on politics, then perhaps we have made crimes of too many behaviors.

      You are missing the point of the law. The whole purpose of the law is to ensure that everyone is guilty of something.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    8. Re:In line with current US thinking by Jhon · · Score: 2

      "If they are laboring under all those advantages and prosecutors get to listen to their calls to their attorney, apparently without bothering to disclose this fact, it's hard to even pretend that something remotely close to justice is being done."

      I posted this earlier:

      "My family was involved with a fairly complex trial recently (hah -- 'recently' took over 2.5 years from start to finish).

      What I recall was that ALL calls were recorded and then screened (I honestly don't recall how) and the defense was notified of each recording between client and 'accused'. The post-screened calls were then filtered (removing privileged calls) to the police. All recordings (including privileged calls which were separate and sealed) were submitted to the defense as part of discovery."

    9. Re:In line with current US thinking by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not only that, but that kind of logic also leads to prisoners becoming repeat offenders even if they try to go straight. A prisoner can get released after serving his time only to find out:

      1) He has no money to afford rent, food, clothing, etc.
      2) He can't live with relatives because of laws forbidding certain residents from allowing felons to live in their apartments.
      3) Jobs pass him up immediately (not even giving him an interview) once he checks "Have you ever been convicted of a felony" on the application form.
      4) Parole officers set odd times for him to check in - requiring him to choose between skipping out on a job he was lucky enough to get or skipping his parole hearing.
      5) Even having a parole officer is an expense that he has to pay for.

      All of this conspires to make it hard for someone released from prison (again, after having served their time) to live their life without committing more crimes. However, any attempt to make it easier for ex-convicts to live honest lives is painted as being soft on crime because "obviously" once-a-criminal-always-a-criminal.

      (John Oliver recently had a great segment on this subject. It's on YouTube, but unfortunately I don't have the link here.)

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    10. Re:In line with current US thinking by adamstew · · Score: 4, Informative

      If they're calling their attorney...Yes.

    11. Re:In line with current US thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm also very curious if there's a citation for that claim. It would be very interesting, if true. What crime would it be? Owing money is the only one I can think of that would be so significant. Or, in some places, maybe piracy?

      But I don't think it is. My understanding is that felon disenfranchisement in the USA was always, from the very beginning, aimed at preventing black people from voting.

      And I completely agree about your analysis of the situation. The way I see it, there are three possible scenarios, and none of them support disenfranchisement:
      - there are so few felons that disenfranchising them is a non-issue for elections
      - felons are spread out through all demographics, so disenfranchising them would not be expected to affect election results
      - there are a lot of felons and they are concentrated in particular demographics, which means that disenfranchising them is indistinguishable from disenfranchising those demographics in a targeted fashion

    12. Re:In line with current US thinking by kwiecmmm · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Constitutional rights? Bah! Who needs 'em!" seems to be the watchword of the new millenium.

      //unless they're gun rights, of course. The gun nuts get everything they want.

      I thought this was illegal at first. But a little research says that this is perfectly legal. If a prisoner wants to have an unrecorded conversation with his/her lawyer they can do that in person.

      http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-jail-record-telephone-conversation-lawyer.html

    13. Re:In line with current US thinking by spauldo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Attorney-client privilege is tied very strongly to both the fifth and sixth amendments. Those are the same rights that prevent forced self-incrimination and execution of a person without due process, and closely tied to the eighth amendment which prohibits torture.

      So the comment you're replying to is not an exaggeration. It carries a different emotional impact, but from a legal standpoint, it's the same.

      Those rights can't be taken away from anyone, US citizen or not, on US soil. It has been very well established in the courts, and it is not a right that prisoners lose. That's why we have all those people in Guantanamo Bay.

      Cases have been lost and presumably guilty people set free because attorney-client privilege has been broken. It is in no one's best interest (except possibly guilty people who would be set free) to break it.

      --
      Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
    14. Re:In line with current US thinking by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Private-prison towns would have a real problem, even if in-prison felons were required to vote-absentee, assuming that they would be allowed to register based on their current residence (ie, the prison).

      Everyone should have the right to vote, and individual pockets of abhorrent behavior are exceedingly unlikely to override a fairly reasonable silent majority. Besides, if a local pocket of abhorrent behavior does manage to make law or repeal law to enable conditions that shouldn't be tolerated, a state or federal law could just as easily cover the jurisdiction if needed, and the concept of nullification was destroyed by the civil war.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    15. Re:In line with current US thinking by tnk1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I doubt that many of them bother. Voting is for plebes, the real ballots have dead presidents on them and you don't have to wait until Election Day to cast them.

    16. Re:In line with current US thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The gun nuts get everything they want.
       
      Utterly false but in any case...
       
      Maybe there's something to be learned from a group of people who have combated an endless assault on their rights for decades and are still fairly free? Naw, forget that. I'll just mock them for actually caring enough to preserve their freedom.
       
      Keep goosestepping there, fruviad. It suits you well.

    17. Re:In line with current US thinking by kilfarsnar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The thinking that does is because there is a system with flaws, that occasionally leads to incorrect outcomes despite the best efforts of everyone involved, that you then refuse to accept that most of the time the system works. Because it does. And no matter how often people tell you they're innocent. Or were wrongfully convicted, they weren't.

      I get the impression that either you are a prosecutor or don't have much experience with the legal system in the United States. The vast majority of people who are charged with a crime plead out, either because they can't afford a decent lawyer or are threatened with all manner of charges by the prosecutor and don't want to take the chance. Even innocent people do this because the deck is overwhelmingly stacked against them. And the prosecutors don't care of they are innocent or not, just about their conviction rate. That is not a picture of a system that is working.

      People think Law and Order is a reasonable representation of our legal system. It is not. People's "best efforts" are often not put towards actual justice but towards locking up whomever was arrested.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    18. Re:In line with current US thinking by sumdumass · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My understanding is that felon disenfranchisement in the USA was always, from the very beginning, aimed at preventing black people from voting.

      Felony disenfranchisement originated long before blacks people were issues in the US or lands that became the US. It (Atimia) originally started in Ancient Greece around 1100 bc and was known as civil death. It was a part of Rome and Most of Europe by around the end of the medieval era.

      In the US, Kentucky was the first state to have it in their state constitution in 1792. It barred anyone from voting or holding office if they had been convicted of bribery, perjury, forgery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

      In 1793, Vermont's constitution gave the state supreme court the ability to disenfranchise those guilty of bribery, corruption, or other crimes.

      In all, before the civil war in 1861, 21 of the 34 different states (Oregon Minnesota Maryland California Wisconsin New York Iowa Texas Louisiana New Jersey Rhode Island Florida Tennessee Delaware Virginia Missouri Alabama Connecticut Mississippi Indiana Ohio) had disenfranchisement built into their state constitution for stuff other than being black before blacks were generally allowed to vote at all. And we all know that Blacks didn't get a universal right to vote until 1870 with the passage/ratification of the 15th amendment.

      In 1882, the US congress even passed a law disenfranchising polygamists from voting and holding political office. After that, some of the disenfranchisement laws were abused to deny blacks the vote which prompted provisions in the civil rights acts as well as the voting rights act in the 1960s.

      But felon disenfranchisement in the USA was not brought about to prevent black people from voting. It is a relic from Ancient Greece and Rome brought into the US by British rule over the colonies and maintained throughout out history for various reasons not related to black people.

    19. Re:In line with current US thinking by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are missing the point of the law. The whole purpose of the law is to ensure that everyone is guilty of something.

      "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.” Ayn Rand

    20. Re:In line with current US thinking by gurps_npc · · Score: 4, Informative
      You are an absolute fool to think that all convicted people are criminals. DNA and historical records clearly indicate that somewhere between 4-5% of convicted people are innocent of the crime they were 'convicted for". This ignores the problem of people being convicted and locked by judges up for things that are NOT crimes - a signifcant problem both now and in the past. People get thrown in jail for not paying fines, despite the fact that according to US law you can't do that. The judge is supposed to offer non-financial punishments for people too poor to pay.

      At the same time, about 4-5% of police have committed crimes.

      We are not saying that no convicts are criminals, we are saying that merely being convicted does NOT make you a criminal. And we despise the blind, obedient, slavish mentality that you are using to accept whatever mistakes our legal system has committed without comment, argument, or even discussion.

      We are citizens, not slaves, and demand our legal rights to question the courts, laws, cops, lawsuits, crimes, jails and probation.

      It doesn't make us feel good, but it sure makes us feel superior to a slavish dunce (word used correctly - look up the origin) who thinks the judges, lawyers and police are perfect and never make a mistake

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    21. Re:In line with current US thinking by budgenator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The calls are prefaced by "This call may be monitored unless it is to an Attorney or an Elected Official , we should be able to take them at their word. In the post 9-11 world, the Law Enforcement and Intelligence communities have been granted unprecedented latitude to protect us from terrorism and we have depended on the good character of honourable men to prevent abuse, they are proving to be not of good character nor honourable.

      I suspect the Courts are not going to be amused, when every Jail-house Lawyer is filing appeals for a can of bugler and clogging up their dockets for years and their are probably a lot of dirt-bag Attorneys on the outside crapping their pants too.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    22. Re:In line with current US thinking by amiga3D · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I like all of the Constitution as literally written. That means the Bill of Rights as well including the 1st and 4th amendment and even the 2nd which the liberals despise. The liberals fail to realize that when they attack the parts of the Constitution they don't like such as the 2nd amendment they damage the defense of all of it. As one of those gun nuts I think we should all realize that this is what tolerance is all about. So what if I think gay marriage is a joke? I tolerate it because I want the protections of the Constitution as well. We need to stand together on all of our rights.

    23. Re:In line with current US thinking by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 2

      If you spend some time talking to actual liberals instead of believing what you hear on Fox News, you'll find that many of them care very much about the 2nd amendment. They just interpret it "as literally written," including the part about well-regulated militias. They are, in fact, very much in favor of well regulated militias (or as we call them today, "police forces").

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
    24. Re:In line with current US thinking by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      You can have an opinion, just don't expect anyone to listen to it.

  2. Really? by kqc7011 · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is usually a large sign near the phones in prisons and jails that says something like this, "Phone Use Is Recorded". In person conversations between client and lawyer are not supposed to be recored though.

    --
    Passionately Indifferent
    1. Re:Really? by Jaime2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure posting a large sign doesn't make unconstitutional actions legal. That's kind of the point of the Bill of Rights.

  3. I don't think it works that way... by Jhon · · Score: 2

    "Particularly notable within the vast trove of phone records are what appear to be at least 14,000 recorded conversations between inmates and attorneys, a strong indication that at least some of the recordings are likely confidential and privileged legal communications calls that never should have been recorded in the first place. "

    My family was involved with a fairly complex trial recently (hah -- 'recently' took over 2.5 years from start to finish).

    What I recall was that ALL calls were recorded and then screened (I honestly don't recall how) and the defense was notified of each recording between client and 'accused'. The post-screened calls were then filtered (removing privileged calls) to the police. All recordings (including privileged calls which were separate and sealed) were submitted to the defense as part of discovery.

  4. here's a little guide by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 2

    It isn’t just Securus whose business model has relied on gouging people caught up in the criminal justice system.

    Given how much we pay to incarcerate these people and given that they would be receiving lots of government handouts outside prison, I think the obvious solution is to give them a limited number of free domestic phone minutes per week.

    Handing a phone monopoly to a private company is cronyism and government corruption.

  5. Parallel Construction by nitehawk214 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is why parallel construction was invented. So you can perform all kinds of illegal NSA-style surveillance to get "evidence", then have someone else construct a case around it while not knowing about the surveillance.

    Convenient.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  6. Constitutional rights? by Holi · · Score: 2

    What the fuck are Constitutional rights? The constitution has never granted you rights.

    --
    Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
  7. Doublethink by TheMeuge · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And why is it that you yourself, while acting as if you care about constitutional rights, disparage those who support the right to be armed? I don't want a random person deciding which of my rights I should or shouldn't have based on their individual biases. I want them all.

    Those who support infringing your right to privacy while supporting the 2nd amendment are making a terrible mistake. But by directing your anger towards them and supporting infringing on the right they hold dear, you are not only making the same mistake, but you are also playing into the hands of those who are perfectly happy taking our rights away a little bit at a time.

    Don't fall into the trap of thinking that your ACLU card can't live next to an NRA one, or that the EFF membership depends on you having a specific political allowance as opposed to being committed to preserving as many rights as we can.

    It's good to have different opinions and a debate... But once you say that you're okay sacrificing one right for the false hope of security, just because you don't care to exercise it, you don't get to argue for preservation of others against a similar promise of safety.

  8. Ever been to an airport? by tekrat · · Score: 2

    Poppycock.

    Posting a large sign indicating that your constitutional rights are no longer valid is a perfectly valid way to violate them.

    Just consider the TSA. They post a large sign indicating that your 4th Amendment rights are no longer valid beyond a certain point before boarding the plane. And apparently; the entire fucking country just accepts that.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
  9. Oh yes they do. by nimbius · · Score: 5, Informative

    people who are incarcerated can appeal to the sitting governor of most states for reinstatement of their voting rights. Its typically accompanied by a processing fee and requires the use of an attorney. if youre unlucky enough to do this in an election year, the likelyhood a sitting governor will do anything but deny this request is poor. ex convicts can be legally discriminated against in housing, education, and employment. In more than 20 states ex convicts cannot receive local section 8 housing benefits, food stamps, or public assistance. Credit tracking companies like experian will also kindly obliterate your credit rating once its been known you've spent time in prison. you cant get a loan for everything from a house to a car or even a small business. and it gets worse. Felons released for time served arent released, they are typically put on 2-5 years mandatory probation. that means they have a curfew, they cant go to bars, they cant own a gun, and they have to abide by whatever arbitrary soothsay a judge imposes. any screwup sends you back to jail for committing a non-crime after punishment. Did you commit a cybercrime? then that means you cant use everything from an ATM to the sytem that lets you check in to your parol officer and schedule meetings/hearings.

    your visas and passports? those are also now invalid and reinstatement after a felony conviction takes twice as long and requires an extra processing fee to pull your criminal records during incarceration. Police that stop you for anything from jay walking to speeding are legally allowed to profile you based on your criminal record, so what started out as a 10 minute inconvenience on the way to work is now a 40 minute ordeal in handcuffs on the side of the road. And lets talk about reparation. Remember that stay in prison? turns out you now owe in most states close to $60,000 in restitution for everything from shelter to food and even civil penalties for the original criminal conviction. cant pay? more than 40 states will send you right back to jail for being too poor.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.