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Apple Apparently Planning Mobile Peer-To-Peer Payment Service (thestack.com)

An anonymous reader writes: According to the Wall Street Journal, Apple is planning peer-to-peer services (paywalled) as an adjunct to its Apple Pay system. The company is said to be in talks with major banks including JP Morgan and Wells Fargo to develop a new framework that could be in place as early as 2016, and which would facilitate payment transfers directly between Apple devices such as the iPhone and the Apple Watch.

69 comments

  1. A bit late to the table. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My bank has let people do that for some time. Then again, I'm in Canada ...

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:A bit late to the table. by myowntrueself · · Score: 0

      My bank has let people do that for some time. Then again, I'm in Canada ...

      Does that count as a $30 wire transfer? Cos Apple would loe a 30% cut of that!

      (I've been kind of shocked at Canadian banks wanting $30 to transfer money from one Canadian bank to another)

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    2. Re:A bit late to the table. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Canadian banks are total fucking scum. The only reason the locals tolerate them is because they're a bunch of over-polite pussies.

    3. Re:A bit late to the table. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      I've been paying my bills using my bank's iOS app for as long as it's existed. Apple doesn't take any cut of existing banking services, so I'm not sure why you would believe they'd take a percentage of this theoretical new service - it would be DOA in that case.

      I'm not sure if there's a significant demand for making person-to-person cash transfers, though. The only person I ever give any cash to is my daughter, and in any case I can do it through my bank's iOS app already.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re:A bit late to the table. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, this is very commonplace abroad. It's pretty stupid to think we're being innovative here.

    5. Re: A bit late to the table. by WarJolt · · Score: 1

      They all make money on the data. Free payment is only free because you are the product.

    6. Re:A bit late to the table. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      A fee of $1.50 is charged to the sender for sending money to the recipient in Canada. No charge to the recipient.Can be done via email or app, pick your poison.

      Obviously, international transfers are going to cost more.

      Also, it's going to cost more if you use other methods.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    7. Re:A bit late to the table. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      I''m not sure if there's a significant demand for making person-to-person cash transfers, though. The only person I ever give any cash to is my daughter, and in any case I can do it through my bank's iOS app already.

      Baby sitter, friend picking up stuff for you at the store, settling a bet, paying your dealer (not exactly advisable), etc.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    8. Re:A bit late to the table. by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      the article (yes, I read it!) says that apple is targeting a paypal-style service where they keep a service fee. They would displace the credit cards in this regard.

    9. Re:A bit late to the table. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, that is why PAYPAL is only worth about 32 Billion dollars.

    10. Re:A bit late to the table. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I wonder, do they even have "take a photo of the check to deposit it" yet?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    11. Re:A bit late to the table. by ljw1004 · · Score: 1

      What does it mean for a bank to "let" you do peer-to-peer payments? Isn't that an oxymoron? If it's peer-to-peer why is a bank involved?

    12. Re:A bit late to the table. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      What does it mean for a bank to "let" you do peer-to-peer payments? Isn't that an oxymoron? If it's peer-to-peer why is a bank involved?

      Because the money you send is taken from YOUR BANK ACCOUNT, duh! Doesn't mean you can't just physically give them cash, but if they're elsewhere, or the cash is in your bank account, how else are you going to do it? Go to the bank, take out the money, and send it by courier?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    13. Re:A bit late to the table. by ljw1004 · · Score: 1

      Because the money you send is taken from YOUR BANK ACCOUNT, duh! Doesn't mean you can't just physically give them cash, but if they're elsewhere, or the cash is in your bank account, how else are you going to do it? Go to the bank, take out the money, and send it by courier?

      Then it's not peer-to-peer; it's peer-to-server-to-server-to-peer.

    14. Re:A bit late to the table. by beelsebob · · Score: 0

      Checks are still a thing?

      In europe, checks (cheques?) have basically been unused for a decade at this point - bank transfers are instant and free, so why would you pay someone by cheque?

    15. Re:A bit late to the table. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      To the user, it appears to be peer-to-peer. Try telling the average user that it's client-to-server-to-server-to-client is too hard and they'd be afraid to use it because HAXORS ... that's also why people think "the cloud" is something new, instead of just another iteration of client-server, and "private personal cloud" is another name for an external hard drive.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    16. Re:A bit late to the table. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I know, but I had a co-worker who insisted that he get a paper paycheck while the rest of us were getting our pay by direct deposit. He's more than a bit paranoid. Also, some people (like my landlord) want either a check or money. No new-fangled e-transfers.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    17. Re:A bit late to the table. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Baloney, they haven't let you do peer to peer payments, because your bank is the fucking MIDDLEMAN.
      Apple isn't letting you do peer to peer, because JPM, WF and APPLE are all up in the fucking MIDDLE of it.
      Anytime you have anyone brokering, authorizing, holding, or otherwise invoved it... IT AIIN'T PEER TO PEER.

      Peer to peer is BITCOIN, and you can do it right now, today, on your phone, computer, whatever, peer to peer, as in you and your neighbor, with no one else, effectively for free.
      That's peer to peer.

    18. Re:A bit late to the table. by jcr · · Score: 0

      Apple has 800 million user accounts with credit cards on file. Amazon is #2, at a bit over 200 million accounts. I think I'm shorting PayPal sometime soon if this story pans out.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    19. Re: A bit late to the table. by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      And I am closing out my Apple account. They've obsoleted every one of my (3) iOS devices, now, anyway.

    20. Re:A bit late to the table. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know, but I had a co-worker who insisted that he get a paper paycheck while the rest of us were getting our pay by direct deposit. He's more than a bit paranoid. Also, some people (like my landlord) want either a check or money. No new-fangled e-transfers.

      I have to drive just over 200km every two weeks to pick up my paper pay check, at least they pay for my gas.

    21. Re:A bit late to the table. by Archibald+Buttle · · Score: 1

      $1.50 fee?

      Ouch!

      OK, sure, $1.50 CAD isn't much, but if you're transferring say $20 or less it's still a very significant amount. Not a sensible way to pay your buddy $5 for your share of pizza.

      Such transfers are free here in the UK.

    22. Re: A bit late to the table. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Such transfers are free everywhere I've lived. UK, Spain, Singapore. I left Canada 15 years ago. Phew.

    23. Re:A bit late to the table. by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      the article (yes, I read it!) says that apple is targeting a paypal-style service where they keep a service fee. They would displace the credit cards in this regard.

      So, how is that "peer-to-peer"? There seems to be a middle-man involved.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    24. Re:A bit late to the table. by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      in terms of the way a computer network is built, it may not be "peer-to-peer" in that sense, but in terms of how the financial system operates, it is peer to peer. If you wrote me a check, I would have to go to the bank to cash it. But if you gave me apple dollars, I would not need to make a special trip to deposit them. Kind of like if you gave me cash.

    25. Re:A bit late to the table. by macs4all · · Score: 1

      paying your dealer

      That was EXACTLY my first thought...

    26. Re:A bit late to the table. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      For something like $20 or less, I think people would just reach into their pocket or purse. Or one person pays for the pizza, and the others pay it back in cash the next time they meet.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    27. Re:A bit late to the table. by macs4all · · Score: 1

      I know, but I had a co-worker who insisted that he get a paper paycheck while the rest of us were getting our pay by direct deposit. He's more than a bit paranoid. Also, some people (like my landlord) want either a check or money. No new-fangled e-transfers.

      At every employer in the U.S. I have been paid by since there was "Direct Deposit", I don't think any of them even offered a paper check option.

      And so your landlord enjoys having to play "Race to the Bank Before it Closes" instead of just having Hir money basically instantly (or at most, overnight?), with no trip-to-the-bank?

      Humans are SO silly... ;-)

    28. Re:A bit late to the table. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      You can deposit a paper check now by just taking a picture of it. No need to run to the bank :-)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    29. Re: A bit late to the table. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How dare they continue to release improved versions of their products? It's like they have an evil plan to trick you into giving them money in exchange for goods, and then later trick you into doing it again for newer, better goods. Greedy bastards! If they really cared about you, they'd never improve on anything they make ever again.

    30. Re:A bit late to the table. by macs4all · · Score: 1

      You can deposit a paper check now by just taking a picture of it. No need to run to the bank :-)

      Yeah, I always forget about that; because, other than paying some taxes last year, I haven't written (or received) a paper check in years.

    31. Re:A bit late to the table. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Kind of amazing how quickly some technologies go from "WOW!" to mundane to fading into the background because they no longer are seen as anything revolutionary. We're living in what any previous generation would call a magical time, and we take it for granted that's the way it is.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    32. Re:A bit late to the table. by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Kind of amazing how quickly some technologies go from "WOW!" to mundane to fading into the background because they no longer are seen as anything revolutionary. We're living in what any previous generation would call a magical time, and we take it for granted that's the way it is.

      I agree. But I wonder for how many generations that has been true.

      "You kids today, with your Fire and your Wheels..." ;-)

  2. the pee-r by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    or the pee-e?

    1. Re:the pee-r by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You leave Mr. Pink out of this Doctor!

  3. Why banks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I am curious as to why banks have to be involved at all.

    1. Re:Why banks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good question, I'd think that this sort of functionality would be more likely to be facilitated by the payment services folks who provide merchant services for POS/ATM type transactions. The only thing I can think of is that Apple are endeavoring to make it as appealing as possible to reduce per-transaction fees from such networks. Could potentially be disruptive to that industry, not that that's a bad thing!

    2. Re:Why banks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am curious as to why banks have to be involved at all.

      Regulations. If you want to do bank type stuff, then you have to use a bank. Walmart tried to handle their own transactions, so they could avoid extortion from the CC companies. They were smacked down by the regulators.

    3. Re:Why banks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's when you introduce your own money, buy 1 Apple Coin for 1 USD, then use it to buy anything in Apple's shop.

  4. One TFA is paywalled, the other has a big pop-up by ShaunC · · Score: 1

    With Apple's market penetration, I can see this taking off where some previous offerings haven't done so well. I wonder about the logistics behind any such system, would you have to tie a checking account to your Apple ID? Would people be willing to do that?

    On a lighter note, I saw a recent episode of Drugs Inc. where they showed a cocaine dealer with his Square dongle plugged into his phone, bragging that he can take credit cards. Consumer to consumer micro-transactions are an interesting [To Read the Full Comment, Subscribe to My Comments]

    --
    Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
  5. In it for the $$$ by pjtp · · Score: 1

    I suppose Apple will think they can get away with taking 30% of each transfer.

    1. Re:In it for the $$$ by myowntrueself · · Score: 0

      I suppose Apple will think they can get away with taking 30% of each transfer.

      And it'll count as a $30 wire transfer too!

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    2. Re:In it for the $$$ by macs4all · · Score: 1

      I suppose Apple will think they can get away with taking 30% of each transfer.

      Why? They don't do that for ApplePay transactions.

      Get over your Hater self.

    3. Re:In it for the $$$ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They do take a (much smaller) percentage, though.

      Get over your AppleDefender self. :)

      Seriously, I wonder how this will work. I have a hard time seeing the banks wanting to do it without getting some sort of cut. But then who would use it if it cost them extra fees? Unless they see it simply as an advertised feature to lure customers. At least Apple I could see viewing it as an advertised feature instead of revenue stream - but if they could get a small cut, why wouldn't they?

      Either way, it'll be interesting to see if this takes off. I'd be surprised if it even sees the amount of usage that Apple Pay does now (which is miniscule in the grand scheme of things; I've been using it a lot with the Discover cash back deal right now, but I have never seen another person use it, ever). Banks have already rolled out their own consumer-to-consumer payment systems (Chase Pay, etc), and I also don't know anyone who's used them. And with this, it will of course only work when both parties have an iPhone, so the potential audience shrinks even more.

  6. Payment between devices? by nullchar · · Score: 2

    would facilitate payment transfers directly between Apple devices such as the iPhone and the Apple Watch

    Don't they mean, payment between people? I don't see how transferring anything, especially money, makes sense from an iPhone to an Apple Watch.

    (I know what they meant: transfer from account holder to account holder via their devices... but an Apple Watch is just an extension of the phone, so is unnecessary to label it in this context.)

  7. Marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First Tim Cook announces that cash will soon become a thing of the past; then the next thing I hear is that they are going to do peer-to-peer payments. I get the feeling that this is some Steve Jobs type marketing at play to build a potential hype train.

    1. Re:Marketing by macs4all · · Score: 1

      First Tim Cook announces that cash will soon become a thing of the past; then the next thing I hear is that they are going to do peer-to-peer payments. I get the feeling that this is some Steve Jobs type marketing at play to build a potential hype train.

      People have been announcing two things for quite a long time:

      The imminent End of the World

      The imminent End of the Cash Transaction

      Neither one is likely to occur anytime soon; but they both will occur.

  8. Like Google Wallet? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

    You mean like Google Wallet? Or am I missing something. Make it BitCoin and do something interesting.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    1. Re:Like Google Wallet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because everyone is going to use a wallet which takes a minute to update

    2. Re:Like Google Wallet? by phantomfive · · Score: 0

      Google Wallet is sure great for transferring money. In almost every case there are no fees, it works quickly and easily. You don't have to hook it up to your bank account. I can't even think of anything to complain about it, although surely there is something.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Like Google Wallet? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Wow, a whole minute. that is just awful!

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  9. Another iService by Vlijmen+Fileer · · Score: 2

    To be called, iOU I guess.

  10. We have two services like that in Denmark allready by fateblossom · · Score: 1

    We do not have Apple Pay og Android Pay. But we have MobilPay and Swipp that is tranfert money to other for free. Or use in stores (Stores has to pay a small fee. but less the to the CC company. But free for private persons)

    MobilPay chage your debitcard and put the money in bank account (No fee for the Dankort Debit card) and Swipp is Bank account to Bank account.

    And beside that people can use there bank app to transfer money. Bank to bank transfer in Denmark is free.

    That said. The easy of just transferring in app is easy. And we can also request money. That the person you request from just have to accept to transfer.

  11. Re:One TFA is paywalled, the other has a big pop-u by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

    would you have to tie a checking account to your Apple ID? Would people be willing to do that?

    I know that people woudl be willing to do this, because this is how paypal works as well. Paypal is tied to my checking account and they can withdraw or deposit funds. that's why it's so dangerous to get your paypal hacked as compared to a CC.

  12. no thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    there's no reason to use apple products

    1. Re:no thanks by macs4all · · Score: 1

      there's no reason to use apple products

      ...and even less reason to listen to Anonymous Cowards.

  13. yay by slashmydots · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now they can steal your phone AND the rest of your money.

    1. Re:yay by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      Now they can steal your phone AND the rest of your money.

      Only if they also steal your access PIN, or one of your fingers...

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    2. Re:yay by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Now they can steal your phone AND the rest of your money.

      Only if they also steal your access PIN, or one of your fingers...

      So, you're saying that I need to carry a pair of tin snips...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    3. Re:yay by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      Or use one of a dozen security holes Apple will deny, lie about, pretend to fix, then make worse, then cover up and send out takedown notices to other websites about.

  14. Friends ATM by perpenso · · Score: 1

    I''m not sure if there's a significant demand for making person-to-person cash transfers, though. The only person I ever give any cash to is my daughter, and in any case I can do it through my bank's iOS app already.

    Baby sitter, friend picking up stuff for you at the store, settling a bet, paying your dealer (not exactly advisable), etc.

    Splitting the lunch/dinner bill. At the drive though you transfer to the driver rather than passing cash. Or at a sit-down restaurant one person pays the bill with a credit card and the others transfer their portion of the bill to that person. Friends/co-workers have done this for many years, except we're usually passing cash to whoever paid. Internally we refer to it as friends ATM.

  15. Re:One TFA is paywalled, the other has a big pop-u by Jeremi · · Score: 1

    I wonder about the logistics behind any such system, would you have to tie a checking account to your Apple ID? Would people be willing to do that?

    Plenty of people have already set up iTunes and/or Apple Pay and tied either a credit card or a bank account to their phone for that; if Apple is clever they will leverage that somehow, so that their new feature doesn't require any additional signup above what Apple Pay or iTunes purchases already require.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  16. Peer to peer to everybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Peer to peer is BITCOIN, and you can do it right now, today, on your phone, computer, whatever, peer to peer, as in you and your neighbor, with no one else, effectively for free. That's peer to peer.

    Bitcoin isn't "really" peer to peer. It is peer to peer to entire blockchain network of millions of people. Bitcoin is the very OPPOSITE of peer to peer transaction. It has a middleman of, pretty much, everybody who owns a bitcoin.

  17. Re:We have two services like that in Denmark allre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another one was the chipknip card system in the Netherlands. It was used for small payments without a connection to the banking system.
    It went live in 1996 and was shut down at the end of last year.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipknip

  18. Get ready. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    JP Morgan also loves blockchain technology but does not love bitcoin. JP Morgan also invented the credit swaps that caused the Greek financial crisis.

    JP Morgan is getting ready for the US dollar to fail. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/...

  19. That is called mobilepay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We already have that in denmark. It is free to transfere money by smartphone to other smartphone user or shops. It is directly connected to a credit card system. It works on iOS, Android and Windowa Phone. It is free and all you need to transfere to an other person is there phonenumber.
    It works great and a large part of the population have startet using it.

  20. The Amazing Self-Satirizing Summary by Pseudonymous+Powers · · Score: 1

    Apple is planning peer-to-peer services (paywalled)

    A paywalled peer-to-peer service, huh? Yeah, I'd say that sums up Apple pretty well.

  21. Like Gmail? by richieb · · Score: 1

    You can already attach money in Gmail.

    --
    ...richie - It is a good day to code.
  22. Ain't trolling fun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    USian banks are total fucking scum. The only reason the locals tolerate them is because they're a bunch of over-polite pussies.