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Explosions and Multiple Shootings In Paris, Possible Hostages (cnn.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Multiple sources are reporting that at least 18 people are dead across three shootings in central Paris. The Associated Press reports as many as 26, as of this writing. Some victims were at a restaurant, while others were at a nearby theater. Early reports indicate there may be a hostage situation with more people at that theater. Police have also confirmed an explosion at a bar near Stade de France stadium, where a football match was underway between France and Germany. There are reports of other explosions heard at the stadium as well, but no details yet. "The attack comes as France has heightened security measures ahead of a major global climate conference that starts in two weeks, out of fear of violent protests and potential terrorist attacks." The attacks occurred not far from where the Charlie Hebdo shooting happened in January. "French news media reported that Kalashnikov rifles had been involved in the shootings — a favored weapon of militants who have attacked targets in France — and that many rounds had been fired."
Unlike other religions, in Islam the act of KILLING is considered as honorable!
That is why throughout the world moslems are killing people - from Nigeria to Syria, to Kenya, to Paris, to WTC of NYC, to China, to Indonesia ... everywhere the you find moslem they kill
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Terrorism isn't an effective tool to achieve goals.
What? It's right out of the Big Muslim Playbook. That's exactly how Islam spread across large parts of the world once upon a time - through sheer, terroristic violence. You know that neighbor of Frances' ... Spain? Yeah, once upon a time Islamic terrorists overran that next door neighbor and set up shop there for quite a while. Islam doesn't take over and become the ruling force in a country by offering nice health plans and a school for everyone. It happens at the point of the sword, and always has. They lost their mojo a long time ago, and have been culturally butt-hurt about it ever since. That seething anger is all about getting it back.
Unfortunately for them, they're now up against modernity. Fortunately for them, they're up against politically correct pussies in most cases, which means they can take advantage of things like massive movements of immigrants over-running Europe to place thousands of hardcore fighters right where they want them, complete with free housing and food while they gear up. It was never that easy the last time they rolled in - I'm sure they're laughing their asses off, this time. It's so much easier when the culture you want to crush holds the door open for you.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
In the New Testament killing is never portrayed as honorable
On the other hand in the koran killings are portrayed as an honorable service to 'allah', as long as the one getting slaughtered are the infidels
I am a Christian and I do read my Bible, and unlike you, I do read the koran as well to see the big contrast among the two
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
I've heard quite a bit about that actually. Sad and tragic accidents to be sure. But not exactly the same as people willfully murdering civilians en masse in the streets of a major European capital city.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Why are they attacking France? What do they hope to achieve?
Terror
That's why they call them "terrorists", Kent,
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
The shooters are yelling "Allahu Akhbar" and you goddamn liberals are blaming the French !!
I have to say, this is a rather fair point...
Fighting in a war zone is one thing, going into restaurants in the middle of Paris and opening up with automatic AK-47s into civilians eating dinner is quite another.
People who would do such things are animals and aren't worth dealing with on an even level. If they wish to behave this way, then they should be treated that way.
Except for your house, pretty much the entire country is a gun free-free zone. You can own a gun and keep it at home, but you can only carry it to and from your Army training, courses by government-authorized firearms organizations, gun shows (which are also highly regulated), or to sell it.
You can't have your gun at a movie theater just in case James Holmes or a Jihadist appears.
So, to not believe in your fairy tale I have to join the douchebag crowd? I can't simply not be part of either group of loonies?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I understand why terrorists attacked the WTC, because America was a major power in the middle east (both militarily and culturally, and the terrorists hate both). Furthermore OBL hoped to increase his reputation by pushing around the US military.
Why are they attacking France? What do they hope to achieve?
OK, reality check: France is pounding ISIS in Syria right now. Yes, they (we) also pounded Lybia. Terrorists consider France an ally of the USA (which it is).
These guys are simply using terrorism everywhere, because that's the only thing they know how to do.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Islam initially spread because it was very liberal (in the original meaning of the word). It is also why there were huge advances in science and culture. Eventually like most systems with riches it became corrupt and collapsed.
I wonder if all of the people who were killed at the birth and initial expansion of Islam would consider their deaths to have been appropriately "liberal."
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
How many "preppers" are there in the U.S. that believe the West is going to collapse into ruin any day now. All it will take is just the right spark to start the race/culture/religious/civil war.
There's a big difference between preparing for the possibility (you don't seriously believe there will never again be war in North America, do you?), versus believing you can bring it about yourself. Preppers recognize the reality that stable, peaceful societies never last forever and often devolve quickly without enough advance notice to avoid the fray. Terrorists believe they can cause that devolution.
I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
I would hesitate to call islam "evil" and thereby brand every muslim as an evil person as well. I have muslims amongst my friends and colleagues, and even the more devout ones are guys like you and me, who just want to get along and get on with their lives, and who are just as appalled at these attacks. The less devout ones will happily share a good scotch or go out for beers after work. Not real muslims? If they call themselves that, they are (even it it means a mighty struggle against their more hardline brethren).
That does not mean that there are some pretty bad things in the qur'an itself (just like the bible, I might add). We should be careful to call every individual muslim to task for the literal text in the qur'an without knowing what their stance is, but we should also not shy away from criticizing the bad things coming out of islam or islamic cultures: genital mutilation, violence against homosexuals, nonbelievers, and apostates, or oppression of women, to name a few. Sadly in Europe the debate is pretty black and white it seems: it's either "muslims are bad", or "you're an imperialist intolerant lowlife for criticizing minority cultures". There is a middle ground, and it's not a compromise, but it is recognition of the fact that not all muslims are alike. Don't condemn the group, condemn the atrocities, the actual violation of human rights, and those who do the violating.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
France has really stringent gun control laws. That did not prevented Charlie Hebdo. That also did not prevented 11/13/2015 events in Paris.
What's your point? Do you want to go over the number of mass shootings in the US that also were not prevented by armed citizens?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Do you really think france will just abandon their tradition of a very liberal atheist society because of a few terror attacks? "Welp guys, it was a good run for the last few hundred years, but now its time to give sharia a try. Can't afford any more dead bodies!".
No. the only objective of terrorists is to bring terror. They do this so that they can divide the populace, and push un-radicalized muslims over the edge to make more terrorists. They want the non muslims to hate the muslims MORE by these actions (if it even was islamists, we dont know at this point). So your really just playing into the hands of the terrorists by spouting your islamophobias, and joining them on the hate train.
The correct solution is to treat this as a crime, like any other and punish those responsible. Don't go trampling on the rights of ALL muslims / citizens because of a few extremists. That is the objective of terrorist acts!!
But that's how the french would/should deal with it. Americans would deal with it by over-reacting, invading countries, and creating more terrorists in the middle east. See how well that worked for you guys? No worries, you'll get it at some point. You cant fight terrorism with more violence. It's a never ending cycle, and thats exactly what the islamists want!!!! perpetual instability.
As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
Pick a country and kill people in the name of Islam
Cause hate against non millitant/radical Muslims in that country.
Non militant/radical Muslims become militant and radical from the new hate.
?????
Profit!
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
I am very disappointed that this is currently modded +5, Insightful. While I very much agree that we - as a modern, liberal (in the true European sense of the word - not the American caricature of a rich elitist sipping Chardonnay from the backseat of a limousine) society are confronting a medieval, barbaric, religious-whacko movement that wants to apply religious law (as does Ben Carson, etc., BTW) to everyone in the world, just where in the hell do you get the idea that NOT just declaring all of muslims as evil who should be exterminated becomes "Blame America First"? What kind of disjointed, fucked-up thinking can lead from one to the other? Let me guess - you watch Fox News almost exclusively and keep talk radio tuned in all the time. Try expanding your thought process to be able to hold 2 separate thoughts in your head at the same time. Trust me, it can be truly liberating to think independently.
Fortunately for them, they're up against politically correct pussies in most cases
It's the gun toting macho pussies that I'm more worried about. The ones who react to stuff like this by arming themselves, increasing "security" (i.e. reducing freedom and privacy) and generally being afraid of anyone with dark skin and the wrong religion. Those guys are the real threat to our democracies and way of life.
The last thing we want to do now is militarize Paris. I was disgusted to hear a British MP on the TV tonight using these attacks as justification for the Snooper's Charter spying laws he wants to introduce. I'm not afraid, I will walk down the street without clutching my sword, and I don't need weak minded idiots who buy into all this "over-running Europe" crap protecting me thanks.
Yep. I am having deja vu to 9/11. When here on slashdot, several commentators accurately predicted the largest fallout would be restricting our own freedoms.
Fuck that shit! I will take a stastically insignificant attack by deperate nobodies who are doing pointless insignificant attacks because they know they have already LOST, over losing our freedom.
You are confusing terrorism with armies. Those who overran spain back in , what, the 8th century were armies, just like went sent whole armies in their land to conquer it (remember the crusade? By your own definition it was pure christian terrorism - especially knowing how they massacred the locals christian, jew and muslim alike on their way there).
Citation needed : terrorism having vainquished a modern country and a horde of terrorist having the power. Muslim terrorist have no chance whatsoever to conquer a country like France. The best they could achieve is trying to frighten people, but even back decades ago when tehy were setting bombs in the RATP people were not afraid. We were just mightily pissed off that all trashcans were welded shuts.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Here's the deal. Islamic terrorism is not a "fringe movement" or a group of "isolated loners". This makes it different from the Charleston church shooting kid, the Colorado movie theater kid, the unabomber, and even the Oklahoma City bombing. It's an international movement and is the express goal of many nations, Muslim sects and people around the world. Search Twitter for 'allahu ackbar' to see all the people around the world celebrating this attack. A person who reflexively rejects any attempt to understand or protect against a worldwide message of hate and violence has his head in the sand.
Without necessarily disagreeing with anything in your post whatsoever, can we please get a little discrimination of ideas and of people? You blurred these lines, and they really need to be un-blurred.
A Muslim police officer was killed while responding to the Charlie Hebdo shootings and a second Muslim helped hide Jews when those same jihadis went on another rampage in the following days. It's important not to forget that. It's also important to not forget that Muhammad killed people right and left, only pausing now and then to rape a nine year old or talk about the importance of kissing a magic rock embedded in Borg cube.
It's an evil and stupid book. People who have completely disagreed with me have gone on to do wonderful things, build wonderful things, advance the cause of physical sciences and history tremendously, etc. etc. disclaimers etc.... can I stop now? Is it ok to simply criticize people and ideas from the seventh fucking century now?
Don't condemn the group, condemn the atrocities, the actual violation of human rights, and those who do the violating.
You're forgetting to condemn the millions of people amongst who the live, and who allow them to continue to operate, be funded, preach hate and recruit. The militant jihadis could never operate without the tacit approval of many millions of their less violent but none the less supportive co-religionists.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
The shooters are yelling "Allahu Akhbar" and you goddamn liberals are blaming the French !!
I have to say, this is a rather fair point...
Fighting in a war zone is one thing, going into restaurants in the middle of Paris and opening up with automatic AK-47s into civilians eating dinner is quite another.
People who would do such things are animals and aren't worth dealing with on an even level. If they wish to behave this way, then they should be treated that way.
ISIS and what they stand for are unbelievably horrible.
But for them to carry out terrorist attacks on western civilian targets is sadly rational. Right now ISIS is being perpetually bombed by the west, and that's likely to continue until they cease to exist. The only way that ISIS survives long term is if they carry out wave after wave of terrorist attacks against western civilian targets until western populations decide saving the middle east isn't worth it and they call back their planes.
To put it another way it's asymmetric warfare. We bomb ISIS because they can't fight back against bombers. They carry out terrorist attacks because we can't fight back against terrorists.
I don't know how we should respond, bombing ISIS will lead to unspeakable tragedies here, leaving ISIS alone to collapse by other means creates unspeakable tragedies there. Letting in refugees probably means some ISIS militants sneak through the cracks to carry out attacks, keeping out refugees causes a humanitarian crisis and creates resentment and homegrown terrorists. It's a balancing act with many bad outcomes.
I stole this Sig
The militant jihadis could never operate without the tacit approval of many millions of their less violent but none the less supportive co-religionists.
Why couldn't they operate?
I think that IRA terrorists, Basque terrorists, ETA terrorists, Red Hand Brigade terrorists, heck even Timothy McVeigh managed to operate quite well without needing the tacit approval of millions. I'm not sure why militant jihadis would be any different?
You're forgetting to condemn the millions of people amongst who the live, and who allow them to continue to operate, be funded, preach hate and recruit. The militant jihadis could never operate without the tacit approval of many millions of their less violent but none the less supportive co-religionists.
That was Osama bin Laden's argument for justifying his attack on the World Trade Center. He felt that the hundreds of millions of Americans who allowed the CIA and Israelis to operate, fund, preach hate and recruit against Lebanon and the Arab world were giving their tacit approval to the killing of muslims.
When's the last time you've condemned Western human rights violations against muslims and Arabs?
Like the more than 150,000 Iraqis killed during Bush's invasion?
"Good" religious people are nevertheless the breeding ground for evil terrorists.
Where is the fatwa that declares all terrorism un-islamic and cleares up that terrorists won't go to get 72 virgins and in fact they'll go to the deepest pits of hell (or whatever the islam equivalent, I'm not an expert)?
The Iranian Prime Minister was among the first to speak out clearly against these attacks, and I respect him for it. But all this jabbering about how these fuckers who are through-and-through religious nutjobs have nothing to do with the very religion that they themselves use to justify their actions is just pathetic.
Of course there is a link. Stop denying it. We can discuss the nature of the link, that there are various interpretations of the holy texts and only some of them lead to violence and so on. But I'm not even taking anyone seriously anymore who categorically denies that there is a link between this terrorism and islam. Of course there is.
What too many people don't get is basic logic. That for terrorism islam by itself isn't enough, there are other preconditions. Social inequality seems to be one of them. Cultural influences, and so on. But even if the religion is not the only reason, it is one of the reasons.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
After 9-11 I saw young Moroccans celebrating in the streets. I also saw muslims of Indonesian, Turkish, Surinamese origin and older Moroccans scolding them. Young Moroccans are exceptionally troublesome here, compared to other groups. The reason is youthful bashfulness in an unfortunate mix with certain cultural aspects, upbringing, and socio-economic issues. Religion certainly plays a role, and hardline muslims (operating from mosques sponsored by S.A.) are all too happy to recruit from these younsters, but it is not the sole cause of the problems. For these kids, religion provides an identity and serves as an excuse for their actions. To them, it's more gang culture than a belief system.
The problem right now is that one half of the country expresses extreme tolerance towards muslims, giving them a free pass on many things that would land anyone else in hot water with the law. The other half has given up and turned their backs on all muslims. That's not going to work if we are to continue to live together. What we should do is to treat muslims like everyone else. Exactly like everyone else. If someone gets fired from a public-interface job because they refuse to shake women's hands, it's their own damn fault, not intolerance towards their beliefs. Your former boss should have seen that incident for what it was instead of tiptoeing around religious sensitivities. If Moroccan kids make trouble, don't go easy on them "to avoid issues with the community" as happens so often; these kids already know they can get away with murder, sometimes to the desperation of their parents. And if we want to call the nastier aspects of islam into question, we should be able to do so openly without being called recist or worse. From now on, let's ignore the "race / religion card" if they play it, and treat them fairly for the rest.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...