Tesla To Voluntarily Recall Every Model S Because One Seat Belt Came Apart (jalopnik.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Earlier this month, a passenger in a Tesla Model S turned to talk to people in the back seat, and her seat belt somehow disconnected itself from the front seat. According to a Tesla spokesperson, "The seat belt is anchored to the outboard lap pretensioner through two anchor plates that are bolted together. The bolt that was supposed to tie the two anchors together wasn't properly assembled." Though the company hasn't been able to replicate the issue on any other cars, Tesla is issuing a recall for roughly 90,000 Model S vehicles so they can test that bolt.

Comments

Introduction

[tgrigsby]

Hello, my name is Elon "Setting the bar so high my competitors throw up from the altitude" Musk. Nice to meet you.

Re:Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a Good Company. I wish more of them did things like this!

I'd buy a Tesla if I had the $$ just because they treat their customers right without a judge having to tell them to.

Re: Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems a bit... Insane though. 90,000 at a measly $100 a pop (labour, booking etc) = $9m minimum. If they keep that up, they'll eventually eat into the profit so bad they fail. Last I checked, they're not technically profitable as it is without subsidies.

Re: Introduction

[Junta]

I think even '$100 a pop' would be insanely high cost to assign a quick check of a seatbeat assembly that can be probably done in a minute in the parking lot. A typical oil change costs under $20 and that actually involves moving a car into the service bay, using up a filter and oil, getting under the car/jacking up the car, the associated liability risk associated with doing all that, and time to get the oil out. Compared to that opening the door and checking out a seatbelt attachment is nothing.

That's also assuming 100% participation rate in the recall. For run of the mill recalls, participation rate generally peaks no higher than 75%. I would expect this one to be even lower since most folks will feel assured with a self-check and not bother.

Re:Introduction

[Krishnoid]

Elon Musk -- putting the 'bar' in 'barf'.

Re:Introduction

[slazzy]

Reminds me of the movie fight club where the guy supposedly worked for a car company, and part of his job was working with formulas to determine if the cost of lawsuits from deaths would be higher than the recall cost. Nice to see a car company obviously concerned with safety first.

Re:Introduction

[Guy Harris]

Reminds me of the movie fight club where the guy supposedly worked for a car company, and part of his job was working with formulas to determine if the cost of lawsuits from deaths would be higher than the recall cost.

At least according to a Mother Jones story from 1977, something similar did happen at Ford, although it wasn't based on lawsuit costs, it was based on a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration figure for the dollar value of a human life.

Re: Introduction

[Richard Dick Head]

I think you're underestimating the marketing opportunity of a recall. They're just going to put a wrench on the bolt, that costs nothing. Yeah, some minimal labor costs. BUT...who goes through the pain of taking their car to a dealership without getting everything else it needs serviced? Or just buying a whole new car, which isn't uncommon, especially if someone can afford the 80+k to buy one in the first place.

Something tells me Tesla will come ahead on this one.

Re:Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the used Tesla market like?

Re: Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm trying to think of the service needed on a Tesla. Fill the wiper fluid and vacuum the mats?

Re: Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a free supercharge while there too.

Re: Introduction

[jonwil]

A lot of the cars will get the seat-belt inspection as part of their next regular maintanence/servicing. So the actual cost to do the check wont be anywhere near as high (even less if you include all the cars who's owners wont bother with the recall at all)

Re: Introduction

[starless]

A typical oil change costs under $20

It might cost you $20, but how much does it cost the place doing the oil change?
I suspect oil changes are essentially loss leaders to get you into a shop where they can
find other (more expensive) work that they can do...

Re:Introduction

[Krojack]

In the meantime, states continue to ban the selling of Tesla cars via online.

Re: Introduction

[TomGreenhaw]

I'm pretty sure all Model S cars are still under the warranty that covers everything except tires. Also, I think they drive to where your car is parked to perform the service.

Re: Introduction

[hawguy]

It seems a bit... Insane though. 90,000 at a measly $100 a pop (labour, booking etc) = $9m minimum. If they keep that up, they'll eventually eat into the profit so bad they fail. Last I checked, they're not technically profitable as it is without subsidies.

You mean for only $9 million dollars, they can get 90,000 people to voluntarily come into a dealership where they are exposed to marketing collateral and a chance to talk with a sales person. Sounds like a pretty inexpensive marketing campaign.

Re: Introduction

[tlhIngan]

I think you're underestimating the marketing opportunity of a recall. They're just going to put a wrench on the bolt, that costs nothing. Yeah, some minimal labor costs. BUT...who goes through the pain of taking their car to a dealership without getting everything else it needs serviced? Or just buying a whole new car, which isn't uncommon, especially if someone can afford the 80+k to buy one in the first place.

Something tells me Tesla will come ahead on this one.

Well, Tesla is quite different - you can buy an annual $600/year service plan that covers everything except tires, and for a bit more, you can have it that Tesla will come to you to service it.

The thing is, an ICE takes a lot of maintenance - between stuff like engine oil and other fluids, there's a bit of tuning to keep things in shape. An EV is different - there's actually very little in the power train that requires regular servicing - so much so that users may go for years between tune-ups (Tesla recommends users come in at least once a year to get service and replace consumables like brakes). Most ICE service schedules range from every 3 months to every 6 months.

And yes, Tesla will probably come out ahead - I mean, look at the other recalls out there - between Toyota's sudden acceleration, GM's ignition switch and many others, either the company didn't act until forced to, or they still don't act, even when there are multiple deaths attributed to the flaw.

So they get a lot of PR over it - "we're recalling every Tesla S to make sure the seatbelts are bolted on correctly, even though there was only one failure and everyone lived, and the government isn't making us do it, but we will because it's the right thing to do."

Re:Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

In the meantime, states continue to ban the selling of Tesla cars via online.

In the meantime, techies continue their quest to ban H1Bs to avoid competition for their jobs...

Techies are just jealous that car dealers have achieved something politically that techies have not been able to achieve, that is all...

To make it worse, many car dealers tended to be the jocks and not the nerds...

Re: Introduction

[Higaran]

$9 million for a recall, compared to maybe 10 times that if they get sued. Even if it costed them that much, which I doubt it was be more than $4 mil at the most, it's still worth it. Plus its a great Fuck You to the big manufactures, I think they are makeing a great PR move with this.

Re: Introduction

[Frobnicator]

It seems a bit... Insane though. 90,000 at a measly $100 a pop (labour, booking etc) = $9m minimum. If they keep that up, they'll eventually eat into the profit so bad they fail...

Reading the actual story and announcement (yeah, craaaazy!) the test is to visually inspect the base of the seat belt and apply a sudden yank of at least 80 pounds force by the tech, followed by another visual inspection to see if anything deformed, bent, or otherwise broke.

This is not a cost of $100 per. For most people this will be 60 seconds added to their existing regular inspection.

Re: Introduction

[smaddox]

What we're seeing here is the difference between a company run by engineers (generate profit by solving problems) versus a company run by MBA's (generate profit by cutting corners^W costs).

Re: Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

Krishnoid, putting the fuck in fuckwit.

Re: Introduction

[WindBourne]

I wish i had some mod points now. You are so spot on.

Re:Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

One guy sold a pretty new 2014 S85D on eBay for $70,000 and here are listings for quite a few more

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html...

or you can get one through the company's certified pre-owned listings at http://www.teslamotors.com/mod...

Re: Introduction

[imboboage0]

As a professional auto tech, I'll confirm this. The shop may make some money on the parts if it's an expensive oil change on a luxury vehicle, but your base oil change is really a loss for the company as a whole. The tech makes a few bucks (7-8 in my case, USD), but it's really not worth my time if I have something better to do. This is especially true when you come across customers that you know from the very beginning are there for nothing more than the oil change special.

Re: Introduction

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

Per WindBourne's recommendation, I award you one million virtual mod points. ... I mean, I know the mod points are already virtual in the first place, but that's not what I meant. At least I didn't say cyber mod points.

Carry on.

Re: Introduction

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

And what are those 90K already-owner-of-a-Tesla people supposed to be buying? An oil change?

Re:Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I speak for a lot of us: You might be right, but fuck you anyway.

Next time your computer is broken, I'm gonna be busy, and you're gonna suffer all weekend, because you're a dumbass.

Re: Introduction

[Solandri]

As much as I'd like to believe that (I'm an engineer), I think what we're really seeing is the difference between a company which sells $90,000 cars vs companies which sell $25,000 cars. A recall which costs only 0.11% of your gross revenue is a lot easier to order than one which costs 0.4% of your gross revenue. Excluding R&D costs, the difference in profit margin exaggerates the difference even more. The recall cost is probably on the order of 0.5% of the profit margin for Tesla, but would be 10% of the profit margin for a typical (non-luxury) automaker. Heck, BMW covers all your maintenance costs for 4 years - you can do stuff like that if all you sell are luxury cars.

Re: Introduction

[ILongForDarkness]

+1 for participation rate. I agree. Participation rate might be even lower for them since there are fewer dealers so it is more inconvenient. How about treating owners as somewhat intelligent? They could post a youtube video that shows you what it should look like and say: "if yours doesn't look like this please come in for a complementary expection and (whatever the equivalent is) oil change." I'm sure their is liability issues as the owner that thought they were smart enough to do self inspection would still blame them for trusting them to check if there were 2 nuts not 1 attached or whatever but still. Drivers ed still teaches (like people ever do) that you should do a basic vehicle inspection each time before driving right?

Re: Introduction

[ILongForDarkness]

I see your argument but suspect you are wrong in Tesla's case. Don't have it handy but my understanding is that Tesla is barely profitable and at that only profitable because of incentives. ~$20 a car (more if they do as some say and actually drive to you do to the service) might very well be well into the single digits of their profit. They want to scale up which would make them profitable. Better to find and figure out how to fix production issues now with 90k cars in your fleet vs when you are making 90k cars a month. I'll be more impressed if they are still doing this when they are selling 1M cars a year.

Re: Introduction

[ILongForDarkness]

and a lot of drivers will just schedule there regular service around it. They'll say "ah its been 8mths close enough to a year" so why don't you check my motor software version and brakes while you are at it? The slightly increased frequency of service might be enough to compensate entirely for the expense of ~60s a seat belt giving it a yank and checking if it is bent.

Re: Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like someone is messing with Telsa.

Re: Introduction

[hawguy]

And what are those 90K already-owner-of-a-Tesla people supposed to be buying? An oil change?

Their next car, of course. Maybe their wife needs a Model X, maybe their child needs a Model 3.

Re: Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, Tesla is quite different - you can buy an annual $600/year service plan that covers everything except tires, and for a bit more, you can have it that Tesla will come to you to service it.

You can do that with any other luxury brand, and it's a waste of money like taking out a annual service plan on your furnace. You're better off putting that money into a savings account every year instead.

The thing is, an ICE takes a lot of maintenance - between stuff like engine oil and other fluids, there's a bit of tuning to keep things in shape. An EV is different - there's actually very little in the power train that requires regular servicing - so much so that users may go for years between tune-ups (Tesla recommends users come in at least once a year to get service and replace consumables like brakes). Most ICE service schedules range from every 3 months to every 6 months.

So then this $600/year plan sounds like even more of a ripoff. And as for ICE's needing more maintenance I doubt I average $600 a year in repairs, most of the maintenance is a couple oil changes a year, new brake pads every few years, and new spark plugs and fluids every 100,000 miles or so. I'm sure that I spend more on tires on average and those annual plans don't cover that anyways.

Re:Introduction

[mattwarden]

You do understand that you are paying for this recall if you ever buy a Tesla, right?

Re: Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is why you aren't trusted, since any problem you may identify is perceived as a way to siphon more money from the hapless driver.

I hate that almost as much as computer repairs.

Re: Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

"This is especially true when you come across customers that you know from the very beginning are there for nothing more than the oil change special."

Haha, what else would they be there for? The other bullshit you try to up sell them?

Re:Introduction

[aaronb1138]

Definitely need to learn about the more reasonable measure called a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) in the industry. Essentially not a recall, but a fix this under warranty no questions asked if a customer mentions it / check this item during next maintenance check on vehicle.

Re: Introduction

[Kokuyo]

I think you and a lot of others are missing the point. They are not doing this to fix all model S cars out there. They are doing this to find out, whether other cars even have a problem there and to finally find out what it might be.

Tesla doesn't even know yet whether there is a problem worthy of a recall and yet they are not willing to wait for another belt to come undone, which might never even happen. They don't jeopardize their customers life and proactively do a recall.

That's what's special about this situation. If I recall, GM had to be dragged by the ear to fix a problem they knew about when they delivered their cars and even after loss of life.

I'm not saying Tesla is praiseworthy for doing the right thing. However just by following minimal standards of ethics, they managed to set themselves apart. This news casts shame on a lot of their competition...

Re: Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

>The thing is, an ICE takes a lot of maintenance - between stuff like engine oil and other fluids, there's a bit of tuning to keep things in shape. An EV is different - there's actually very little in the power train that requires regular servicing - so much so that users may go for years between tune-ups (Tesla recommends users come in at least once a year to get service and replace consumables like brakes). Most ICE service schedules range from every 3 months to every 6 months.

I fix my own vehicles. Because I'm cheap, I buy rather worn out vehicles.

I can honestly say less than 10% of the effort I put into fixing them and keeping them running year after year has to do with them being ICE. I will typically replace the exhaust once. One time I had to replace the intake manifold. Those were slightly effort requiring jobs.

The regular ICE maintenance items (spark plugs, oil, coolant, fuel filter) are just never much of a pain in the ass (part of the secret is to avoid stupidly engineered vehicles where you have to disassemble stuff to do basic maintenance). Once you know what you're doing, they're 20 minutes of effort once every 3 months (or 6 months if you put the kind of miles you'd put on a Tesla). If you have an automatic, you'd do some maintenance on the tranny, too. If you have a manual, probably not so much apart from a 5 minute gear oil change every couple of years. :)

The jobs that really aggravated me are the same jobs you'd do on an electric vehicle. Suspension, steering, body work, electrical issues, horridly setup drum brakes, brake lines, A/C work (lord help you if the evaporator springs a leak), etc. I'd say out of 10 major jobs I'd do on a beater, those items cover 9 of them.

People who think they're going to save large amounts of money on the maintenance of a vehicle because it has an electric motor have never really had to "maintain" a vehicle before. They just buy a new car and moan that every 6 months they "have" to do an overpriced $50 oil change on it, overpriced $800 brakes at 2 or 3 years (you'd be doing them on an electric car!), and after that they get rid of it.

If $100 a year in the basics has you down, imagine the car payments...

Me, I've never had a car payment in my life. Though I do seem to give the parts store $500-$1000 a year. :P

Re: Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

Tesla doesn't have dealerships and the service centers contain mechanics, not salesmen. Tesla's business model is quite different.

Re: Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

Idiots. They are doing this because if someone gets hurt because the seatbelt fails they will be rightly sued and they WILL lose. PR my ass. On helicopters, by law, the seatbelts must be replaced every 100 hours of use. Plus nobody spends $70000+ for a car who expects safety features to fail. Idiots

Good of them

[Anonymous Coward]

Really not something I would expect to happen, especially if they can't even replicate the issue with other cars.

Re:Good of them

[nomel]

I think it's more that they can't afford to have something go wrong because they know the press will rip them apart. This will cause hundreds of shit journalists to delete the sensational clickbait articles they were working on, and gives huge cred. to their quality.

If a seatbelt in a Toyota comes apart, nobody gives a shit, and you couldn't pay a reporter to make a story about it. Is there some name for this type of "quality curse", similar to what Apple has?

Re:Good of them

[Noah Haders]

what happens if a seatbelt bolt comes apart and then the car spontaneously bursts into flame?

Re:Good of them

[__aaclcg7560]

Driver error. Should have bought a gas guzzler instead.

Re:Good of them

[I'm New Around Here]

Hey, that only happened once. And there was a tree involved.

Re:Good of them

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice try, but you're talking through your hat. If a seatbelt in a Toyota (or any other vehicle on the road as new as the Tesla in question) comes apart in the manner described, you can be sure it will be taken very seriously by any responsible dealer. The liability associated with primary safety systems is a huge concern for every automaker and tier 1 supplier out there, and that trickles right down to the tier 2's and beyond. Tesla, and whatever company provided the seat belt system to Tesla have probably had many people working many hours to determine just how that defect could have reached an end customer. [And yes, I am an engineer in the automotive electronics industry, with direct responsibility for many front-end activities (product specification, DFMEA, FTA, FMEDA, etc.) related to both active and passive safety systems, specifically sensors for airbag and electronic stability control systems.]

Oh, and can we knock off references back to the Ford Pinto case, which is nearly 40 years in the past at this point. Or if not, let's compare every security related iPhone/Android bug to defects which affected PDP-8s, since they're about as applicable.

Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[psergiu]

Yes, the marketing campaign is flawless. My next car will be a Tesla, and my decision is based only on the articles published here on /.

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[Coren22]

If they came out with one in the $40k range, I would buy one, but at $100k, who can afford one?

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[Anonymous Coward]

Good news! They are doing this.

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[__aaclcg7560]

Cisco engineers. When I worked there for a while, the engineers would argue over the hardware specs like PC enthusiasts. Small dicks with big paychecks compensating for something.

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[Anonymous Coward]

One day, your boss will pull up to work in one. You'll ask "How?" and he'll reply "If you continue to work hard and do well. I'll be able to afford another one next year."

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[MBGMorden]

This is one area where the "lower cost of living" areas of the country kind of get shafted.

I make ~$65k per year. In my area - that's fine. I bought a recent construction 1800sqft 4 bedroom house for $115k. Food and electricity are cheap here - I have no problem living comfortably on my salary - EXCEPT when it comes to buying something like a car. Cars cost about the same regardless of where you are in the country. As such while I'm making over twice the median income for my area - even $40k for a car isn't remotely feasible. My realistic budget tops out at around $25k. Thankfully you can still get (some) cars for less than that.

That said - I'm still driving my 10 year old car that's long been paid for. You can buy a LOT of gas per month for the price of a car payment.

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[rfengr]

Who can afford one? Apparently 90k people. Not me though, at least not with college savings for 2 grade school kids. Though I plan on buying one when they come out with the lower price model. Had my eye on a VW TDI but they blew it. Being an EE, I like the simplicity of an electric car. Hoping the next one will still have AWD option with insane mode.

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[locopuyo]

You aren't really getting shafted. If you're in a higher cost of living area you still won't be able to afford it because you're spending all of that money on housing, higher food costs, etc., and can't afford to spend it on a car.

In most "high cost of living" areas the higher wages don't make up for the house prices.

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[zzyzx]

Personally I like living in a high cost of living/high salary location. It makes it a lot easier to travel. On the other hand, I bought a house before the bubble started. I might not be a fan otherwise.

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[Anonymous Coward]

"but at $100k, who can afford one?" - apart from the 90,000 people who already have?

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure there'll be an AWD option but perhaps not Insane / Ludicrous. For that, for now, you'll have to buy a Model S.
Guess we'll find out in March 2016 at the initial reveal, if Musk decides to make those details public this early.

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

If they came out with one in the $10k range, I would buy one, but at $40k, who can afford one?

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[green1]

Is not about what you make, it's about what you spend. By your own admission you make more than I do, and I just bought a Tesla Model S with my savings. And that's in a country where the S costs even more due to our low currency exchange rate with the US.

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[Coren22]

I drive a $35k Tundra, it isn't so expensive. At 0% APR, it costs me $577.77 a month.

I would tend to compare the Tesla to an Avalon Hybrid, which bases out at about $41k, so for double the price, you get a car that out performs the Avalon, and uses no gas. I am not sure it is worth the trade off.

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[ncc74656]

In most "high cost of living" areas the higher wages don't make up for the house prices.

QFT. My sister just learned that lesson and is moving back to Dayton, OH after a few months near Boston. She was being paid more, but probably all of the extra pay (and then some) was sucked up by the $1900/month rent for a tiny old house with no A/C and no garage (or even off-street parking). She was previously paying probably a bit more than half as much for something much newer, larger, and better-equipped.

All she has to do now is let the movers pack up and unlearn driving like a Masshole. :-) (Speaking of which, she gets to get away from those. :-P )

Re:Yes, yes, i'll buy a Tesla.

[Anonymous Coward]

I drive a $35k Tundra, it isn't so expensive. At 0% APR, it costs me $577.77 a month.

That's more than my rent and more than 50% of my monthly income.

News vs Reality

[Rinisari]

News: "Tesla issues recall affecting 90,000 electric vehicles for seatbelt defect"

Reality: "Priding itself of quality and execution, Tesla issues voluntary recall for loose seatbelt screw despite improbability that human assembler screwed up more than once."

Re:News vs Reality

[captjc]

What is Happening: "Priding itself of quality and execution, Tesla issues voluntary recall for loose seatbelt screw despite improbability that human assembler screwed up more than once."

What People Hear: "Tesla is the next in a long line of Auto Makers whose vehicles are deathtraps."

Honda Seatbelt Recall

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a junky 99 Civic hatch. It was recalled because the rear-middle seat belt would become stuck in a collision.

I didn't bother. The UN would classify someone sitting in the rear-middle seat as torture.

Not that unreasonable...

[Junta]

A 'recall' does not mean 'we are spending money to replace cars' or anything. In this case, it's saying 'bring in your car so we can do a quick check on whether there was a manufacturing mistake. This is probably a minute of a technician's time to check. This is a good thing, but it's nothing to bow down and worship them over either.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[boristdog]

Except other car companies are not known for this. Excellent customer service AND marketing all rolled into one.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[Grishnakh]

No, but it's a lot better than many other car companies, where they do the bare minimum required by law to keep their customers safe. It's one of those cases where a little bit of money creates a lot of goodwill. I'd much rather buy a car from a company that is proactive about potential safety problems rather than requiring people dying in accidents before the government forces them to admit a problem, which is exactly what happened with GM and their shitty ignition switches. At this point, I don't give a shit how good the Volt or Bolt are technically, I really don't want a GM no matter what because I simply don't trust them.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[93 Escort Wagon]

This is a good thing, but it's nothing to bow down and worship them over either.

Yeah, it's amazing how some fanboys choose to spin everything into a positive light.

There are only 90,000 of these on the road. One seat belt detaching itself from its anchors could conceivably be a big deal. For comparison, there have been 630,000 Ford F-Series vehicles sold in model year 2015 - if six or seven of those exhibited this same issue, wouldn't that be kind of bad?

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[Junta]

The thing is I don't think this is even a little bit of money, in practical terms this recall is free. This isn't a hard choice for them. Now when something costs some money and is not directly associated with a safety related part of the car but arguably could indirectly cause a safety risk, then we can evaluate their response versus other companies.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[OverlordQ]

> No, but it's a lot better than many other car companies, where they do the bare minimum required by law to keep their customers safe.

Yeah, the difference is those other companies have 10-100x as many vehicles on the road.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[AK Marc]

This is a good thing, but it's nothing to bow down and worship them over either.

It is when Chrysler latches kill children, and Chrysler spends millions of dollars fighting the recall. Or Ford and GM who have both been found to have covered up safety issues, and quietly fixed them, hoping nobody would notice and they wouldn't have to recall the proven and known unsafe vehicles.

For a car company to do a recall like that hasn't ever been done in the USA. So yes, it is quite extraordinary.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[Zero__Kelvin]

Math doesn't work the way you think it does. 90,000 is 90,000 regardless of how many cars each company has on the road.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[BadgerRush]

If one of the big ones had six or seven issues we wouldn't even know about, it would be just swept under the rug. You just have to do a google search to know that most other car companies just ignore those until the number of actual victims reach the three digits (I think GM holds the record with more than a thousand injured before their ignition recall). And even then, most only do a recall after receiving a court order.

It is not about being a fanboy, it is about trying to praise and generate good publicity for companies which do the right thing, so they will see that it is advantageous to keep doing it, and maybe others will also see the business advantages and do the right thing. In a world where is is so lucrative to screw customers, we have to do all we can to show companies that not screwing customers also can be lucrative.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[Anonymous Coward]

If only one F-Series vehicle exhibited this same issue, would it be kind of bad?

Ford: Nope
Guy flying out window: Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[Whorhay]

It might not cost them a lot of money to do the actual work of the recall. But you can bet money that it'll cost them as easy fodder for their opponents.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly the opposite. They are getting almost all of their loyal customers to come back and say high. They will sell enough minor pieces of junk and plant the seeds to sell so many more cars, that I expect them to make a profit on this overall.

If the competition tries to make something of this, all they have to do is say that their customers are so important to them that they were not willing to take the slightest chance with their safety, unlike every legacy car manufacturer out there who first calculates how much the wrongful death lawsuits will cost and then figure out if it's worth it.

I'm going to buy a model X. My only real worry is if they fixed the cup holders and if not, can I pay $150K for a car that has bad cup holders. So long as Tesla is in business, I have no worries about them fixing all the stupid little things that go wrong.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[Anonymous Coward]

My 1990's Nissan came with a lifetime warranty on the seat belts. If the vehicle was still operational, they would fix it.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[Grishnakh]

Yeah, my 90s Acura was the same way.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[drinkypoo]

Yeah, the difference is those other companies have 10-100x as many vehicles on the road.

Right, then they still avoid a recall on 90,000 cars to save the same amount of money, even though they make many times as much money as does Tesla and ought to be able to afford it.

Re:Not that unreasonable...

[lgw]

Luxury brands are. And Tesla is a luxury brand - compare them to how Mercedes treats you if you buy an S Class, not how GM treats you.

Smart move.

[Radical Moderate]

Assuming it costs $20 to check each car (about a half hour of mechanic time) that's less than $2 million. They're getting a ton of good publicity, good will from their customers--we like to buy stuff from companies that don't want to kill us--and if one of these belts fails and leads to a death they could easily lose that much in just one lawsuit.

It's as if Musk is asking himself "How would GM handle this?", then doing the opposite.

Re:Smart move.

[Grishnakh]

It's as if Musk is asking himself "How would GM handle this?", then doing the opposite.

There's nothing at all wrong with learning from other peoples' mistakes. And GM is definitely a great company to look at when you want an example of what NOT to do (for just about anything).

Re: Smart move.

[corychristison]

Even then, this is voluntary. Chances of every Model S owner bringing their car in is simply not going to happen. Half, maybe.

Re:Smart move.

[Anonymous Coward]

And GM is definitely a great company to look at when you want an example of what NOT to do (for just about anything).

Except cash government checks.

They're good at that.

Re: Smart move.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's still enough for them to tell whether this was a fluke, or something systemic.

Re: Smart move.

[cbhacking]

Recalls are usually checked at routine maintenance time, too. My Subaru (I'd love a Tesla, but they don't suit my driving needs) got a couple of minor repairs - nothing likely to be life-threatening, just stuff that would probably cost them more to repair if they ignored it - for free when I took it in for its scheduled maintenance.

Now, Teslas don't need a lot of servicing, but they do get some. I'm sure some people will schedule a special service time to have the seatbelt checked, but for most people they'll probably just give the belt a good tug / look at and poke the bolt, conclude that it's fine, and forget about it until the next time they take their car in for routine maintenance. At that time, the tech will spend the extra few minutes - highly unlikely to average anywhere near half an hour - to check it themselves.

Still, good on Tesla for doing this. Remember that, for people who bring in their car *just* for this recall, there's a lot of overhead and it ends up costing much more than just the tech's time. Still probably not a major amount, even if a lot of people do participate in the recall outside their scheduled maintenance cycle, but non-trivial.

Re:Smart move.

[Anonymous Coward]

It might be as simple as Musk don't want all headlines to say a Tesla killed somebody due to faulty safety. Tesla is likely the most mentioned brand of car in recent times (ok, VW is also mentioned a lot) and a dangerous Tesla would be over exposed in the media compared to what would be written about a similar error in another brand. Especially now that it can be proven that one person reported the error. If somebody dies due to a known defect, then hell breaks loose.

There is also the possibility that they don't have a clue to what happened and as long as they don't understand it, it could happen again. Checking all cars could give clues to what and where it went wrong. The serial number can be used to track date of construction, location and whatever, possibly even the name of the worker, who put the car together. Finding something all faulty cars have in common could be a great help in ensuring that it will never happen again.

Getting all cars pass the mechanics mean they might be able to check something else at the same time. Something like wear level of a certain component or something. You never know what minor details could be worth a whole lot to people like them. The cars upload lots of data though and they might get the feedback they want even without physically seeing the cars.

It might also be that Musk is an idealist, who really does want to make the perfect car. Once in a while people might actually tell the truth without having a hidden agenda. Something in the spirit of the original Rolls-Royce: the perfect car, which is good to drive and without technical issues.

I agree that it is a good move from Musk, but we will never know the reason why he did as he did. It might be several of what I listed and it can be something I didn't think of. However just saying that it is a publicity stunt is quite shallow.

Re:Smart move.

[aicrules]

The consumer always has the option of whether to heed to recall or not. The Voluntary part of this is that Tesla decided to issue the recall without a mandate from the NHTSA or whoever it is that can mandate recalls. Consumer can still ignore it if the NHTSA mandates it.

Re:Smart move.

[swillden]

And GM is definitely a great company to look at when you want an example of what NOT to do (for just about anything).

Except cash government checks.

They're good at that.

So is Tesla. Except then they pay the money back, ahead of schedule.

Re: Smart move.

[WindBourne]

Actually, all of the other car makers are great examples of what not to be.

Re: Smart move.

[WindBourne]

Nope. All owners bring in their cars every year.

Re: Smart move.

[WindBourne]

Yes, good posting. You have it exactly right.

Re: Smart move.

[Grishnakh]

I disagree: some are better than others. Maybe not as good as Tesla, but this isn't a binary thing. And since not everyone can afford a $100k Tesla, most of us are going to be stuck buying from one of the other companies. Personally I've been pretty happy with my Mazda and Volvo, and my Hondas before that were well-built cars. It's usually the American companies that seem to have something bad going on, though in recent years it seems like Toyota's been working on catching up with them.

Re: Smart move.

[WindBourne]

Might want to re-evaluate it based on what everybody is seeing and not just on what you see with your 2 cars.
Volvo is WAY down the list. And mazda is just barely above average.

Sadly, JD Powers refuses to rate Tesla. Interestingly, Tesla is now at the same sales volume as Porsche was in 2000. And if all goes well Tesla will surpass Porsche by 2018. Of course, the question is, will JD Powers finally rate Tesla then?

Re: Smart move.

[Grishnakh]

That's an "initial quality" survey. Why anyone even bothers with that thing, I have no idea. It's exactly what it sounds like: they survey people who *just got* their cars. It has zero bearing on long-term reliability.

Re: Smart move.

[KGIII]

This may interest you:
http://www.jdpower.com/sites/d...

(PDF warning)

Oddly, I've nary a problem with my BMWs over the years - nothing major, at any rate. On the other hand, I keep them properly maintained. Yes, yes it is expensive but it seems to be worth it.

Re: Smart move.

[james_shoemaker]

how about this one?

http://www.consumerreports.org...

Re: Smart move.

[Grishnakh]

Ok, but that's only about Tesla, nothing else. I don't have a Tesla so I can't really speak to its long-term reliability. It doesn't surprise me that a rather new car company with a lot of new tech is having some issues. However there's probably also the effect where high-end cars usually have more complaints than low-end cars, which is why the luxury makes historically did somewhat poorly on JD Powers' surveys: people who pay $50-100k for a car are a lot pickier and quick to complain about small issues in their cars, whereas someone who buys a $12k Chevy doesn't usually complain about small squeaks and rattles. It's a matter of expectations. Even in your article above, some owner remarks that they're likely complaining about squeaks that they wouldn't even notice in a gas-powered car because the Tesla is so quiet. (And that I can believe, because while I don't own one, I have driven a Model S and it is eerily silent; definitely something you're not used to if you've never driven an EV. I could see how any squeak or rattle would be easily noticeable in that environment.)

Re:Smart move.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that's what I do in my software development company. I ask myself how would GM develop this application, and then do the opposite. So far no reported deaths from the use of my software (touch wood).

They cost enough money, they have to be good.

[gurps_npc]

Tesla is quickly becoming the most trustworthy car company around. They care more about the possibility of a problem than about their bottom line.

Of course, it's a lot easier to do that when you have a high margin luxury product.

Re:They cost enough money, they have to be good.

[cbhacking]

Luxury, yes, but I'm not actually sure about the margins. They make money on every car sold, but they still end up in the red most quarters due to things like R&D costs. Now, maybe they just spend a ton on R&D (and probably also things like Supercharger stations, the new factory, etc.), but they aren't exactly raking in the dough the way "high margin" implies.

Re:They cost enough money, they have to be good.

[Whorhay]

I think their stated profit margin per car was around $9k, which is a pretty good margin in the automotive industry. The company as a whole may not turn a profit quarter to quarter, but that is because they are making large investments in other areas as you mentioned.

Re: They cost enough money, they have to be good.

[WindBourne]

And yet, they are night and day above the direct competitors such as S class, a8, etc.

Me too.

[Okian Warrior]

Yes, the marketing campaign is flawless. My next car will be a Tesla, and my decision is based only on the articles published here on /.

I'm also planning on getting a Tesla as my next vehicle.

It's largely because of context. I *hate* how my dealership inserts itself between me an my purchase and tries to siphon off money for itself. I went through the trouble of looking for the *same* model and make of my previous purchase between two dealers - and got two "rock bottom" prices that were $1000 different. I know they were "rock bottom" prices, because the dealership told me so.

There's also the reliability context. GM has a problem with its ignition switches, denies the problem for a decade, and once a hundred deaths occur fixes the issue without telling anyone, and backdates the paperwork in an attempt to hide the issue.

For the longest time I couldn't rationalize Tesla stock analysis in the financial news. It's almost as if the analysts were looking at Tesla as a black box company: they make some product, have some capitalization, have some profit/loss, and it's a good/bad buy.

As near as I can figure, the financial analysts have an algorithm that actually looks at Tesla as a black box company and makes an heuristic estimate of whether it's a good buy or not. Periodically, an analyst chooses Tesla for review and then rationalizes the heuristic output based on whatever news has recently happened.

(I think that's how all financial analysis is done, actually. It's always "markets are *up* because of $X, markets are *down* following $Y", and so on. It makes the reader think that market fluctuations are caused by these newsworthy events.)

No one in the financial news seems to clue in that the company is building a battery factory, or that the cars had (at the time) the highest rating on Consumer Reports, or that they own a nationwide chain of chargers (and are building more), or even that they are currently selling electric vehicles.

Nope - none of that matters. Porsche plans to make an electric vehicle, and Tesla's stock tanks.

Apparently, in the financial markets context doesn't matter.

But if you look at the context, Tesla is the best product on the market.

Re:Me too.

[Bender0x7D1]

It's largely because of context. I *hate* how my dealership inserts itself between me an my purchase and tries to siphon off money for itself. I went through the trouble of looking for the *same* model and make of my previous purchase between two dealers - and got two "rock bottom" prices that were $1000 different. I know they were "rock bottom" prices, because the dealership told me so.

Now, it depends on the total price of the car but, given a new car in the $30k range, that isn't a big difference (Would you be upset if someone said a rock bottom price was $100 and another said it was $97?)

One dealer may be paying a lot more to occupy their lot - or may have less sales volume, requiring them to make up the overhead over fewer purchases.

Now, I'm not saying you want to pay $1k more but, percentage-wise (assuming a $30k vehicle) a 3% difference is pretty minor - or may be due to something as weird as different rims on the car.

Re:Me too.

[lgw]

Last I checked, Tesla's market cap was 1/4th of Ford's. Yeah, I think they have a bright future, but that's beyond optimistic with so many risks to Tesla future. Good product has little to do with good stock.

Re:Tesla or DEATHLA?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's the story I've heard for why early Lexus cars were so well regarded: First generation Lexus owners had this belief that the Lexus lineup was the bulletproof pinnacle of engineering with no faults. In truth they were fairly average cars among the luxury brands. However, in addition to the warranty Lexus factored in $5000 per car for out-of-warranty repairs. Therefore all of the early owners had this image of their car of never having problems, because they didn't have to fight for it to be fixed when there was a problem.

Tesla doesn't think every car has a seatbelt problem. They want people to believe that Tesla won't let any problem go unnoticed no matter how unlikely. This is probably in reaction to the fact that the Tesla battery pack fire myth wasn't dispelled in public opinion even after their extensive testing showed it to not be an actual design flaw. This is a more proactive response.

obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Which car company do you work for?

A major one.

Re: obligatory

[WindBourne]

Yeah either fiat via jeep, Ford, BMW, or Mercedes. All 4 have had similar issues.

Re:obligatory

[fustakrakich]

Lee Iacocca, is that you?

Unlike Toyota that requires FJ Cruiser...

[Anonymous Coward]

owners to pay for their own repairs to the seatbelts. On every used FJ the car dealership I work for has had, the panel on the inside of the rear doors has cracked and prevented the belt from retracting completely so there was a dangerous amount of slack which would hurt you in an accident. Also, nearly all of them have driver's side belts that are twisted, and Toyota requires their victims to pay for repairs.

Re:Unlike Toyota that requires FJ Cruiser...

[Anonymous Coward]

There was a recall for the panel cracking, but every dealer I've talked to wants to get paid for the repair. The slack Toyota leaves in the belt is dangerous.

Re: Unlike Toyota that requires FJ Cruiser...

[Anonymous Coward]

I suggest paying for the repair even though there's a recall that Toyota refuses to do for free. I broke my collarbone when I was rear ended at low speed.

Re: Unlike Toyota that requires FJ Cruiser...

[Anonymous Coward]

It sucks taut Toyota refuses to fix the seatbelt a in FJ Cruisers despite the fact that the DOT forced them to do a recall.

Re: Unlike Toyota that requires FJ Cruiser...

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, every car maker demands to be paid for recall work these days.

Re: Unlike Toyota that requires FJ Cruiser...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you picking on Toyota dealers when all dealers now try to charge for safety recalls.

Re: Unlike Toyota that requires FJ Cruiser...

[Anonymous Coward]

That is what I did when my seatbelt quit playing n my FJ. It wasn't worth having to park the car and fight the dealer and pay for a rental. There's a good reason now why all car dealers make so much profit from charging for recall work.

Re: Unlike Toyota that requires FJ Cruiser...

[Anonymous Coward]

I should have paid the $600 Michaels Toyota in Bellevue,WA demanded to fix my seatbelts on my FJ. I didn't and now my wife has permanent scars and constant headaches from her face hitting the windshield. Yes, dealers shouldn't charge for recalls, but you have to take care of yourself and your family.

Re:Unlike Toyota that requires FJ Cruiser...

[somenickname]

This seems to indicate that the dealer has to provide the recall fix for free but doesn't have to pay for the damages that might have occurred because of the failure: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/r.... It's possible that I'm not interpreting that correctly but, I've had recall work done on my FJ numerous times and never paid a penny for it. Presumably because the things that were being fixed hadn't caused any secondary damage.

Voluntary

[Anonymous Coward]

Voluntary. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:TESLA == Garbage Mobile

[Anonymous Coward]

HAHA, it's funny because you can't spell 'Dodge' and because you think Dodge isn't a POS.

The man is a marketing genius

[kamakazi]

Right now the auto industry is reeling from a serious of serious "we had a problem, but we didn't want to say anything" scandals, from the GM ignition switch to the VW super smoggers, and don't forget the shrapnel bags. The entire ecosystem is full of distrust, some of it fairly active distrust.

In this environment a one off assembly mistake where there was no accident, no damage of any kind, is a marketing opportunity you couldn't even buy in a normal market environment.

Musk already recalled all his cars once, to bolt extra belly armor on them because of an accident which would have been considered extreme in any vehicle, and in which his car came out smelling like a rose.

This recall is going to be a lot cheaper. No engineering, not even any replacement parts, but now Tesla is Even More Different(tm) because they recalled a potential problem immediately, before anybody even asked about it.

Based on Musk's previous behaviour I think he really cares that his products are perceived as the best. I am not making a character reference because I don't know the guy, but he obviously cares about at least the appearance of superlativeness.

The guy runs a marketing machine that reminds me of the late Mr. Jobs in his prime.

Re:The man is a marketing genius

[Lumpy]

Volvo used to act like musk. Their cars were back in the day built like sherman tanks and were designed properly.

Re:The man is a marketing genius

[ColdWetDog]

And they looked like Sherman tanks and drove like them.....

Re:The man is a marketing genius

[Anonymous Coward]

Are they not that way any longer? I've only heard good things about them. My first and current car is a 2008 Volvo V70 in northeast USA.

Re: The man is a marketing genius

[WindBourne]

Nope. Volvo's safety record is gone. In addition, Volvo's for the US, are to come from china.

Re:The man is a marketing genius

[aralin]

I can confirm this, my wife T-boned a Volvo that run a red light in front of her. Our Honda Civic was totaled, the Volvo went into 540 degree spin. I've seen the Volvo and I could not tell where it was hit. Under very close inspection I found one place with slightly scratched paint. In contrast the whole front of the Civic was crumbled, the engine shifted, it was an unrepairable mess.

Re:The man is a marketing genius

[cellocgw]

For a long time, Volvo equated indestructibility with safety. Then they finally noticed that "safety" means not injuring the occupants, and this is best achieved by dispersing the crash energy via destroying the vehicle rather than having the frame remain rigid and transferring the energy to the occupants. Other manufacturers are still way ahead of Volvo on this.

Re:The man is a marketing genius

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to not understand that the volvo occupants did not get injured in almost all reported accidents. only really, really, really, really, stupid car engineers make the car self destruct in an impact.

Zero reported deaths or injuries in a volvo where the car did not sustain massive damage. Z E R O.

Re:The man is a marketing genius

[Nethead]

Hey! My '98 V70 is the most comfortable car I've ever owned. It does not drive like a tank, more like a well worn-in Lay-Z-Boy.

Not saying that the sample lot was all that high-end, well there was the '96 Mazda Millennia, that was a nice car too.

I happen to like the way the V70 looks. This may explain why my wife picks my clothes when we go out, and makes me take the 2001 Volvo S60.

Unlike Honda

[trout007]

Still can't get my airbag fixed.

Re:Unlike Honda

[Anonymous Coward]

Back in August, the local Honda dealership was so booked that I had to schedule an oil change 2 week in advance. (They give a really good deal on oil changes, probably in the hope that you'll be back for another car.)

Fortunately, later that same month, they were able to set aside an emergency repair spot for me when the J35A9 engine ejected its #5 spark plug through the radiator.

On the upside, though, the airbag isn't a recalled Takata.

Re:Unlike Honda

[belgianpainter]

Still waiting for Toyota to fix my airbag as well. In the mean time Toyota recommends against passengers sitting in the front seat. Thanks A LOT!

Re:Coren22 the pussy = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

This seems a bit off topic. Also, your post title is misunderstood. You seem to miss the point of that line in the story.

You need to assign a cost to deaths.

[queazocotal]

If you're not doing a design where you cost the various design alternatives, you're doing it wrong, and may even not minimise the thing you're 'caring most' about.

It is always - for example - possible to improve safety of cars through expensive technical means.
More complex construction with better crash absorbtion properties, ...
But, if your vehicle is twice as safe as the rest of the fleet, and yet due to your safety upgrades costs eight times more than one that is only 1.1* as safe, you may actually end up costing lives with your 'safer' design.

Similarly - weight generally means poorer gas mileage, which means more pollution, which means more deaths locally due to pollution.

Other car companies have done this too

[perpenso]

This is a Good Company. I wish more of them did things like this!

They do. Once I took my car in for routine service at the dealership. On the bill it mentioned a complimentary inspection of my seat belt buckle per manufacturer recall XYZ. My car was "old", the warranty expired. I think over the decades I've seen stuff like that three times. Twice the inspections for defect or abnormal wear were negative. Once a part's lot number was such that the part was replaced for free.

On a fourth occasion I received a traditional recall, a letter in the mail saying bring the car in to have part ZYX replaced. The other three were silent recalls, surprises during routine service.

Re: Other car companies have done this too

[Anonymous Coward]

This wasn't just a technical bulletin. For those, they check out the problem if the vehicle happens to visit a dealership. Unless the labor and parts are very low cost, tsb's usually aren't warrantied, unless the vehicle itself is. Recalls are for when a problem is severe enough as to pose a risk to life ( and company ). Pretty impressive to recall for this, but it's not like they're replacing all 90000 parts either.

Re: Other car companies have done this too

[ILongForDarkness]

No maybe just tightening a few nuts or whatever. They might have some slack manufacturing compacity so the recall could be ~free to them (already paying someone full time but don't have enough work to keep them busy, plus maybe small fraction of people bother). But regardless; it is a good policy. Especially with such a technology driven device. It isn't just selling more cars to people, what about a new $10k quick charge battery or charger? I'm guessing the opportunities for follow on sales are larger when the owner owns both the "gas station" and a very expensive gas tank.

Re:Other car companies have done this too

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a Good Company. I wish more of them did things like this!

They do. Once I took my car in for routine service at the dealership. On the bill it mentioned a complimentary inspection of my seat belt buckle per manufacturer recall XYZ. My car was "old", the warranty expired. I think over the decades I've seen stuff like that three times. Twice the inspections for defect or abnormal wear were negative. Once a part's lot number was such that the part was replaced for free.

On a fourth occasion I received a traditional recall, a letter in the mail saying bring the car in to have part ZYX replaced. The other three were silent recalls, surprises during routine service.

I've had this a few times on my Lexus, which is pushing 9 years old now. Only 1 recall did I get a letter for, everything else was little "silent" things they took care of when it was in for service.

Re:Other car companies have done this too

[KGIII]

I bought a metric ton of shares when they were at ~24. No, I still haven't sold them.

Seems kind of overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

This would seem overkill for a simple manufacturing defect... thus I wonder if they found a more fundamental issue with their manufacturing there.

If it was GM...

[Lumpy]

They would simply release a statement that the customer is at fault and if anyone is unhappy about it they will give you a $5.00 coupon off of your next GM vehicle purchased at full MSRP prices only.

Don't read much into this.

[Anonymous Coward]

So, A company knows of a questionable part. They research but do nothing. They do a benefit-cost analysis and determine to recall or not. We have NO KNOWLEDGE, either positive or negative if this is one of those cases. So don't read into this as the company is some how an amazing good-guy who wants to do right. This could be 100% the opposite and they know that they are screwed and have to do a recall.

Re:Coren22 the pussy = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

You've got the retarded bastard on the run is why apk.

Not that special...

[abroadwin]

Everyone is acting like this is some amazing, over-the-top act that puts Tesla above other car companies, but actually this recall is likely cheap enough that it falls perfectly within the scope of the Fight Club recall formula... this is SOP, folks.

Re: Not that special...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the recall that is unusual, it's that the company hasn't tried to sweep it under the rug or wait for the government to try to force them and then fight with the government in court for 5 years over it.

Re:Not that special...

[MerlynEmrys67]

You are right. It is easy to recall 90K vehicles. Try having to recall 16M vehicles (VW will end up in that range) and the cost, infrastructure requirements go sky high.

Re: Not that special...

[WindBourne]

And yet, GM, VW, Toyota, Porsche, BMW, etc can afford massive recalls because they sell so many. A recall is a high price no matter the car. And yes, Tesla is very different.

Re:So much Elon cocksucking.

[TomGreenhaw]

It's not about Elon, its about the car and the people who make up the company. As a Tesla owner, I thought I'd respond to your comments.

1) They are taking the opportunity to do the right thing, check out every car for other issues, and getting great publicity. If they find one more car with an assembly problem like this, and however remotely possible that car is in an accident, this recall paid for itself.

2) It probably won't cost them anything at all because the techs are paid a salary and need something to do anyway. From our experience the cars require little maintenance.

3) OK

4A) The Model S is fairly priced for what it is; its not the car for everybody.
4B) The Model S has a 4 year Warranty with everything but tires covered. We paid another $3500 a year and a half ago to extend that to 8 years. This warranty policy makes 3rd party repair obsolete and I cannot think of another car of any kind that you can maintain for flat rate of $3500 for 8 years. I don't understand your point that maintenance on the Model S is expensive.
4C) You are correct; the Model S is a beta test of sorts. People who can afford a relatively expensive car are funding a business model that develops the capacity to make lower priced electric cars. Problems with any new technology is to be expected, but this one has been remarkably smooth for us. We got our Model S in April 2013 and I knew I was taking a pretty big chance. It paid off - we have had almost no trouble at all.

Damn Right

[residents_parking]

Brit here. Seat belts have been compulsory since I was in short trousers. It's not either-or. Savile jokes aside, we have a good record.

Re:Coren22 the pussy = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahahahaha "mentally damaged assburgers brain" is funny!

Nope

[WindBourne]

If it was any other car maker, they would do nothing until forced by govs to do so. And that would occur only after multiple deaths.

Re: So much Elon cocksucking.

[WindBourne]

3) wrong. All of the other car makers are much worse than Tesla.

Re:So much Elon cocksucking.

[Anonymous Coward]

1) That's replying to 2, not 1. It's weird that it's become "great publicity", since $225k (upper bound) is much less than it would cost to pay out for one accident in which this bolt is implicated. It's not just the only moral choice, but it's the economically wise thing to do.

4A) Eh, for someone with a lot of disposable income, it might be interesting to buy. I haven't identified a use case where it's the cheapest functional option.
4B) If you can afford a Tesla, you're surely bright enough to realise that you pay toward maintenance as part of the initial cost of the car.
4C) I don't know whether it's going to give us lower priced electric cars. Tesla's not even profitable yet.

Re:Coren22 the pussy = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahahaha "brain damaged goods assburgers brain"'s funny. I upmodded you. Coren22's sockpuppets downmodded you. Run them out of modpoints apk so we can all laugh at Coren22 running some more.

Re:Coren22 the pussy = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

You have no friends, Alex. You have no supporters. Nobody is complimenting you, and nobody is fooled by your complimenting yourself.

Re: So much Elon cocksucking.

[TomGreenhaw]

lol

Re:Coren22 the pussy = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be out of modpoints to downmod apk with. Did apk run you dry of them again so you can't hide his posts? Yes. He's good at that. No hiding it now Coren22. Friends? Dolt, you're projecting you have none. Just your MyAlteranteID = Coren22 and yes the time on your posts gave you away. How stupid can you assburgers morons be?

Re:Coren22 the pussy = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not true. Apk has supporters amongst slashdotters and famous people in the computing industry unlike Coren22 http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Integrated Manufacturing Risk

[Anonymous Coward]

It is odd for a basic component like that to fail. In a multi tiered supplier network a seat belt component is checked 8-10 times as it passes to the next company for assembly. Defects in assembly are found all the time but rarely get to the customer. Tesla has a more integrated manufacturing process with custom made components and needs to create more self checks in the assembly process to maintain the same reliability.

service isn't next to a dealer for Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

At least in the Los Angeles area..
the service center is in an industrial park in Van Nuys. The sales offices are in malls in Woodland Hills, Pasadena, etc. miles apart.

esla To Voluntarily Recall Every Model S

[Anonymous Coward]

Mama said, "stupid is as stupid does".

SpaceX Struts analogy?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if the decision maker here (possibly Mr. Musk) had spent so many hours tracking down a SpaceX issue with struts that work 99% of the time, that (s)he decided they needed more data on a seat belt that works 99% of the time. So, they decided to recall all the cars to find out what was happening, just like they (had to) keep at it at SpaceX to find out what happened.

I hope that after checking 1% of them, they will know what correlates with this problem. Is it one worker, one option package, having any FNG on the job, Monday morning 8:00 am, or something else?

Do they keep video of their assembly line? It would be awesome for them to see this part being assembled, and see what happened. Dell was cited in the book Freakonomics as knowing who put what processor in what laptop more than a year later.

Re:Coren22 the pussy = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be out of modpoints to downmod apk with. Did apk run you dry of them again so you can't hide his posts? Yes. He's good at that. No hiding it now Coren22. Friends? Dolt, you're projecting you have none. Just your MyAlteranteID = Coren22 and yes the time on your posts gave you away. How stupid can you assburgers morons be?

We know it's still you.
Kudos for figuring out how to not make our eyeballs bleed with your horrible misuse of formatting and whitespace, but your linguistic style is just as mentally fucked up as ever.

Says the unidentifiable "courageous" (not)

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Anonymous true coward weasel w/ no balls & lowest of the low online w/ no integrity whatsoever.

* HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I UTTERLY FRIED YOU UNDER YOUR "REGISTERED 'LUSER'" ACCOUNT THAT YOU'RE SO AFRAID TO POST TO ME USING IT?

(Answer = TOO many... lol!)

APK

P.S.=> ... & you KNOW it... apk

So just go to the dealer for repairs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Should owners call their local Tesla dealer to handle the recall? Oh, that's right. There are NO dealers. Tesla need to dispatch technicians just like a printer break/fix ticket.

Re:So just go to the dealer for repairs?

[belgianpainter]

Should owners call their local Tesla dealer to handle the recall? Oh, that's right. There are NO dealers. Tesla need to dispatch technicians just like a printer break/fix ticket.

From the article: "The plan now for owners of the roughly 90,000 vehicles on the road is to bring their cars into a Tesla service center , where a technician will check the car out for a few minutes" (emphasis added)

QC Issue

[Sir Holo]

This is simply a QC issue. Bolts were not tightened (or were absent?) in a single vehicle's driver-side seat-belt. It could have been a single oversight. Or, a disgruntled line-worker. Or, a tired one who has the flu. The first step, out of caution, is to recall all other vehicles assembled that day. The next; recall all that this person (or robot?) touched. Last, because we're talking about a life-saving device, and the work to check each one at the dealer is minimal, then it's the only reasonable thing to do. (A "no-brainer" decision, which is how Tesla is different from the big automakers, whose misbehavior has been known for decades. They keep getting caught, yet always seem to disregard human life over profits (assuming the secrets can be kept) again and again.)

So, Tesla undoubtedly out-sources their seat-belts to a vendor. It's a developed device, and not the focus of Tesla's R&D.

That said, installing the module properly in the Tesla factory is an extremely important thing. Tesla responded appropriately.

Re:Coren22 the pussy = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Coren22]

Except as I have repeatedly said, I have one account and don't post AC, so stop projecting that I am agreeing with myself like you do.

Coren22, is that why you replied to yourself?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Is that why you forgot to submit by ac here in the post just prior to that one where I catch you in it http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ?

* BUSTED... lol!

(Replying to YOURSELF no less? Please... lmao!)

APK

P.S.=> Who're you *TRYING* to fool other than yourself? Your own mistakes are your undoing on this one too... apk

Re:Coren22, is that why you replied to yourself?

[Coren22]

Yeah, because I was asking myself if it hurt when I had my ass handed to me? No, I clicked the wrong reply to, it was meant to be directly to you.

Re:Coren22, is that why you replied to yourself?

[Anonymous Coward]

Quit lying Coren22. You're caught by apk forgetting to submit ac to troll him and we all know it.

Re:Coren22, is that why you replied to yourself?

[Coren22]

You really don't understand logic, do you? You must really suck at programming, as logic is kind of needed there.

Re:Coren22, is that why you replied to yourself?

[Anonymous Coward]

I read your fails list apk put up Coren22. It's obvious you can't code at all and you have illogic logic due to a faulty assburgers brain!

Re:Coren22, is that why you replied to yourself?

[Coren22]

Wow, amazing, you have determined by a few lines of your own typing that I can't program. That is kind of funny, and I take it as a compliment. I am not a programmer by profession, and I have never claimed to be, but I'll bet I could code up something way better than yours without much effort, it could after all be replaced with a few line script in Unix.

I am a Systems Engineer with Security training. I design and secure email systems, I don't code shitty software no one uses.

As for illogic, which is the logical conclusion, that I was trying to insult myself as AC, or that I clicked on the wrong reply to? Why would I be insulting myself as AC, I have enough insults from you trying to trash my name, and failing utterly to convince anyone but your alternate personalities.

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #1/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

Where'd I say it? Show us (not your illogic logic but where I literally said that). I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there on OpenDNS free (I use it) + AD in my security guide.

Running from a simple question WHERE I said that specifically that you shoot your mouth off lying about it & me, hmmm?

(OR is it just your mentally damaged goods assburgers brain acting up again w/ illogic logic trying to put words in my mouth I never said? Yes...) ... And

Where did I say I don't use DNS too?

Clue: I do & detailed it for you AGAIN (via my std. post on DNS vs. hosts) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

APK

P.S.=> Con't. in 2/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #2/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"figured out why privilege escalation's a bad thing?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

How else can I programmatically update hosts itself?

---

"it requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

Hypocrite later admits it!

Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware DEMANDS it or it can't do a job fully like many security tools!

---

"Needing admin privileges every time a program updates is poor design" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Mine doesn't to get new data to update hosts vs. threats. Only hosts itself updates need it vs. WFP/SFP. Users set it too. It's not programmatic impersonation.

---

"90's tech to fight modern war" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Ozymandias/Watchmen per a namesake:

"I resolved to apply antiquities teachings" (hosts) "to our world today & began my path to conquest - Conquest not of men but of the evils that beset them: Fossil Fuels (antispyware), Oil (antivir), Nuclear Power (addons) are like a drug & you gentlemen along w/ foreign interests are the pushers"

It works Aryeh Goretsky NOD32/ESET hosts = good security-> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...

Oliver Day (Symantec) too-> http://www.securityfocus.com/c...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts' Admin hosts + RECOMMENDS my APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-2 32/64-bit-> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

APK

P.S.=> Con't. in #3/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #3/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

62 reputable sources + /. users say different:

Safe by 57 antivirus programs in 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

the 32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Per VirScan (installer too)-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

---

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

(& he certified my source http://slashdot.org/comments.p... - he wouldn't host it, much less recommend it, minus that...) /.'ers say my work is good too:

"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)

"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)

"No complaints from me, I like APK's spam. Reminds me to use a host file. Also, his stuff is free." - by aaaaaaargh! (1150173) on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @09:31AM (#50947415)

APK

P.S.=> Con't in part #4/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #4/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"His newest post is trying to refute that MiTM attack opportunity his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

I DISPROVED it: Only hardcoded favs users provide themselves are REVERSE DNS verified.

My program filters 5,500++ false positives:

1.) Search engines
2.) Antivirus (e.g. updaters)
3.) Security community sites
4.) Captchas, brower home pages + download pages
5.) Ebay/Amazon (shopper & banking)

(Security community I get hosts data from do false positives filters in current data + removal lists).

---

"won't demonstrate security of his product be exposing the source (someone might steal it!)" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

"the secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code and said it looked all good to them" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

My ware went thru code verification by Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes' hpHosts

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

A competent coder & BEST security researcher I know of FROM THE BEST ANTIMALWARE THERE IS http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

NOT a secretary!

---

YOU BLEW IT ON ADMIN PRIV TOO: My program doesn't require it hosts does (WFP/SFP): my program protects hosts beyond it!

I.E.-> I run manually minus admin priv & drag result to hosts naming it "hosts" overwriting original.

Only auto update needs it (WFP/SFP) & users set it themselves in program shortcut: Not programmatic impersonation.

---

DNS introduces a SECURITY ISSUE RIDDLED SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE & doesn't secure down to endpoints on a LAN -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

How I use DNS-> http://slshdot.org/comments.pl... & what hosts overcome in DNS fails!

APK

P.S.=> Con't in part #5/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #5/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"Virus scanners/Adblock software don't need admin priv to update" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Neither does my program. AV does to remove threats - Adblock addons = Vastly INFERIOR in abilities + efficiency vs. hosts as I proved & no one proved me wrong to date!

---

"your software does" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

No hosts do (WFP/SFP) - Intake update of new hosts data doesn't!

---

"won't reveal your source code" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

I don't owe you it. I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

---

"What's stopping you from pointing my bank's web site at your private server?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

I don't keep a server. Security guru (not - you create no ware for security & your forensics skills = non-existent): Put it in a VM, trace it via process monitor + wireshark (don't need code)!

---

"the possibility of being caught, which would be pretty hard to catch w/ such a large hosts file, as no one can go through it manually." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

I put hardcoded fav sites @ top of hosts for speed & reliabilty - spotted easily & bulk of hosts = sorted blocked known bad threats provided by the security community (filtered vs. 5,500++ false positive possibles in my program & by current security community data).

---

"What are you going to do when Windows gets rid of the hosts file completely?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Hasn't happened!

---

"They have already taken steps to make it useless in Windows 10." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

It works there!

Telemetry's killed 10 by itself: VISTA = Win10 = Win8 = flops - who're you fooling other than yourself?

APK

P.S.=> Con't. in #6/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #6/6

[Anonymous Coward]

Coren22 'eats his words' vs. me 2x yet again:

"introduces risk you are relying on a 3rd party to update a hosts file potentially opening you up to MITM attacks" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

How?

My prog only puts entries in as non-blocking to hostnames is ones users give it as favs to speed up @ TOP of hosts REVERSE DNS VERIFIED!

(For more speed, & reliability + security - in RAM as 1st resolver queried = faster & more secure vs. remote DNS w/ all its security issues in Kaminsky flaw, DNSChanger malware IP stack settings, routers bushwhacked in DNS settings, rogue DNS, Open DNS servers abused by malware. It aids in reliability vs. redirects).

YOU'D SPOT IT INSTANTLY @ TOP OF CUSTOM HOSTS & can easily edit anything you want out!

(Rest = known bad sites from 10 reputable security community sites for blocking - the MAJORITY of what's in my hosts files!)

+ my sources do removal lists vs. false positives & helped me create a "FP" filter in my program (5,500++ of them)!

---

"maybe one day you can get a score 5 comment" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

See subject & ~ 12 +5 upmods: "Eat your words" (1st one: You tried using what I post there against me to FAIL):

+5 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (11):

http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://science.slashdot.org/co...
http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...
http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...
http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...
http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

"You believe you are getting the better of me" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

YOU GOT THE BEST OF YOURSELF in fails & lies about me. Your immature signatures about me SCREAM you're butthurt - Did it to yourself.

APK

P.S.=> You fail Coren22... apk

Re:Coren22 the pussy = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[dave420]

You have no supporters with accounts, and the ACs who support you all have precisely the same mannerisms as you. That would make a critical mind think your supporters are just you using your (already admitted) ability to make many anonymous posts to Slashdot.

That you think anyone would be fooled by that speaks more of you than anyone else - clearly you are not that bright if such an obvious ploy sounds like a good idea to you.

You are priceless, but you need so much help it's not even funny. Watching your slow decline over the years from relevant posts under actual usernames to bizarre sockpuppetry, harassment, and childish tantrums is incredibly moving. I feel nothing but sorry for you.

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #1/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

Where'd I say it? Show us (not your illogic logic but where I literally said that). I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there on OpenDNS free (I use it) + AD in my security guide.

Running from a simple question WHERE I said that specifically that you shoot your mouth off lying about it & me, hmmm?

(OR is it just your mentally damaged goods assburgers brain acting up again w/ illogic logic trying to put words in my mouth I never said? Yes...) ... And

Where did I say I don't use DNS too?

Clue: I do & detailed it for you AGAIN (via my std. post on DNS vs. hosts) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

APK

P.S.=> Con't. in 2/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #2/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"figured out why privilege escalation's a bad thing?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

How else can I programmatically update hosts itself?

---

"it requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

Hypocrite later admits it!

Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware DEMANDS it or it can't do a job fully like many security tools!

---

"Needing admin privileges every time a program updates is poor design" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Mine doesn't to get new data to update hosts vs. threats. Only hosts itself updates need it vs. WFP/SFP. Users set it too. It's not programmatic impersonation.

---

"90's tech to fight modern war" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Ozymandias/Watchmen per a namesake:

"I resolved to apply antiquities teachings" (hosts) "to our world today & began my path to conquest - Conquest not of men but of the evils that beset them: Fossil Fuels (antispyware), Oil (antivir), Nuclear Power (addons) are like a drug & you gentlemen along w/ foreign interests are the pushers"

It works Aryeh Goretsky NOD32/ESET hosts = good security-> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...

Oliver Day (Symantec) too-> http://www.securityfocus.com/c...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts' Admin hosts + RECOMMENDS my APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-2 32/64-bit-> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

APK

P.S.=> Con't. in #3/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #3/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

62 reputable sources + /. users say different:

Safe by 57 antivirus programs in 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

the 32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Per VirScan (installer too)-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

---

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

(& he certified my source http://slashdot.org/comments.p... - he wouldn't host it, much less recommend it, minus that...) /.'ers say my work is good too:

"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)

"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)

"No complaints from me, I like APK's spam. Reminds me to use a host file. Also, his stuff is free." - by aaaaaaargh! (1150173) on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @09:31AM (#50947415)

APK

P.S.=> Con't in part #4/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #4/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"His newest post is trying to refute that MiTM attack opportunity his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

I DISPROVED it: Only hardcoded favs users provide themselves are REVERSE DNS verified.

My program filters 5,500++ false positives:

1.) Search engines
2.) Antivirus (e.g. updaters)
3.) Security community sites
4.) Captchas, brower home pages + download pages
5.) Ebay/Amazon (shopper & banking)

(Security community I get hosts data from do false positives filters in current data + removal lists).

---

"won't demonstrate security of his product be exposing the source (someone might steal it!)" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

"the secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code and said it looked all good to them" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

My ware went thru code verification by Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes' hpHosts

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

A competent coder & BEST security researcher I know of FROM THE BEST ANTIMALWARE THERE IS http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

NOT a secretary!

---

YOU BLEW IT ON ADMIN PRIV TOO: My program doesn't require it hosts does (WFP/SFP): my program protects hosts beyond it!

I.E.-> I run manually minus admin priv & drag result to hosts naming it "hosts" overwriting original.

Only auto update needs it (WFP/SFP) & users set it themselves in program shortcut: Not programmatic impersonation.

---

DNS introduces a SECURITY ISSUE RIDDLED SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE & doesn't secure down to endpoints on a LAN -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

How I use DNS-> http://slshdot.org/comments.pl... & what hosts overcome in DNS fails!

APK

P.S.=> Con't in part #5/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #5/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"Virus scanners/Adblock software don't need admin priv to update" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Neither does my program. AV does to remove threats - Adblock addons = Vastly INFERIOR in abilities + efficiency vs. hosts as I proved & no one proved me wrong to date!

---

"your software does" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

No hosts do (WFP/SFP) - Intake update of new hosts data doesn't!

---

"won't reveal your source code" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

I don't owe you it. I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

---

"What's stopping you from pointing my bank's web site at your private server?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

I don't keep a server. Security guru (not - you create no ware for security & your forensics skills = non-existent): Put it in a VM, trace it via process monitor + wireshark (don't need code)!

---

"the possibility of being caught, which would be pretty hard to catch w/ such a large hosts file, as no one can go through it manually." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

I put hardcoded fav sites @ top of hosts for speed & reliabilty - spotted easily & bulk of hosts = sorted blocked known bad threats provided by the security community (filtered vs. 5,500++ false positive possibles in my program & by current security community data).

---

"What are you going to do when Windows gets rid of the hosts file completely?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Hasn't happened!

---

"They have already taken steps to make it useless in Windows 10." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

It works there!

Telemetry's killed 10 by itself: VISTA = Win10 = Win8 = flops - who're you fooling other than yourself?

APK

P.S.=> Con't. in #6/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #6/6

[Anonymous Coward]

Coren22 'eats his words' vs. me 2x yet again:

"introduces risk you are relying on a 3rd party to update a hosts file potentially opening you up to MITM attacks" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

How?

My prog only puts entries in as non-blocking to hostnames is ones users give it as favs to speed up @ TOP of hosts REVERSE DNS VERIFIED!

(For more speed, & reliability + security - in RAM as 1st resolver queried = faster & more secure vs. remote DNS w/ all its security issues in Kaminsky flaw, DNSChanger malware IP stack settings, routers bushwhacked in DNS settings, rogue DNS, Open DNS servers abused by malware. It aids in reliability vs. redirects).

YOU'D SPOT IT INSTANTLY @ TOP OF CUSTOM HOSTS & can easily edit anything you want out!

(Rest = known bad sites from 10 reputable security community sites for blocking - the MAJORITY of what's in my hosts files!)

+ my sources do removal lists vs. false positives & helped me create a "FP" filter in my program (5,500++ of them)!

---

"maybe one day you can get a score 5 comment" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

See subject & ~ 12 +5 upmods: "Eat your words" (1st one: You tried using what I post there against me to FAIL):

+5 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (11):

http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://science.slashdot.org/co...
http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...
http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...
http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...
http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

"You believe you are getting the better of me" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

YOU GOT THE BEST OF YOURSELF in fails & lies about me. Your immature signatures about me SCREAM you're butthurt - Did it to yourself.

APK

P.S.=> You fail Coren22... apk

Great marketing ploy in two ways:

[rhyous]

1. They look good to the public for being so conscientious.
2. The car comes in and the workers can say: Hey, while your hear, your almost do for a service, or for your special 30k service or .

In the end, the part will be fine on all or most of the cars. But Tesla sales go up and Tesla service division reports a small bump in profit.

Dave420 "eats his words" YET again, lol... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & this quote of your words you must eat vs. me yet again:

"You have no supporters with accounts" - by dave420 (699308) on Monday November 23, 2015 @11:17AM (#50985793)

Tepples does http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

aaaaaaargh! does http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

Trax3001BBS does http://news.slashdot.org/comme...

KGIII does KGIII

* So do all these /.'ers who use my program who think it's good:

"No complaints from me, I like APK's spam. Reminds me to use a host file. Also, his stuff is free." - by aaaaaaargh! (1150173) on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @09:31AM (#50947415)

"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)

"Actually, APK is totally right on this count. Adblock Plus on Firefox mobile is a dog on older, or lower end, phones. A hostfile based adblocker makes for a much better experience in this context. Of course, your phone has to be rooted, which isn't the case with Firefox + adblock." - by chihowa (366380) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @11:40AM (#49705641)

"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)

"APK isn't wrong" - by cfalcon (779563) on Sunday October 04, 2015 @05:11PM (#50657891)

APK

P.S.=> What's that you said Dave420? Outnumbered by 12++:1 for starters?? LMAO... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #1/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

Where'd I say it? Show us (not illogic logic but where I literally said it). I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there in my security guide.

Fact: You shoot your mouth off lying about it & me, hmmm?

(It's your mentally damaged goods assburgers brain acting up trying to put words in my mouth I never said? Yes...)

---

Where did I say I don't use DNS too?

Clue: I do & detailed it for you AGAIN (via my std. post on DNS vs. hosts) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

---

"You must really suck at programming" - by Coren22 on Monday November 23, 2015

What've you programmed? Other /.'ers disagree:

"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)

"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)

"No complaints from me, I like APK's spam. Reminds me to use a host file. Also, his stuff is free." - by aaaaaaargh! (1150173) on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @09:31AM (#50947415)

APK

P.S.=> Con't. in 2/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #2/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"figured out why privilege escalation's a bad thing?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

How else can I programmatically update hosts itself?

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"it requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

Hypocrite later admits it!

Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware DEMANDS it or it can't do a job fully like many security tools!

---

"Needing admin privileges every time a program updates is poor design" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Mine doesn't to get new data to update hosts vs. threats. Only hosts itself updates need it vs. WFP/SFP. Users set it too. It's not programmatic impersonation.

---

"90's tech to fight modern war" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Ozymandias/Watchmen per a namesake:

"I resolved to apply antiquities teachings" (hosts) "to our world today & began my path to conquest - Conquest not of men but of the evils that beset them: Fossil Fuels (antispyware), Oil (antivir), Nuclear Power (addons) are like a drug & you gentlemen along w/ foreign interests are the pushers"

It works Aryeh Goretsky NOD32/ESET hosts = good security-> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...

Oliver Day (Symantec) too-> http://www.securityfocus.com/c...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts' Admin hosts + RECOMMENDS my APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-2 32/64-bit-> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

APK

P.S.=> Con't. in #3/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #3/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

62 reputable sources + /. users say different:

Safe by 57 antivirus programs in 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

the 32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Per VirScan (installer too)-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

---

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

(& he certified my source http://slashdot.org/comments.p... - he wouldn't host it, much less recommend it, minus that...) /.'ers say my work is good too:

"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)

"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)

"No complaints from me, I like APK's spam. Reminds me to use a host file. Also, his stuff is free." - by aaaaaaargh! (1150173) on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @09:31AM (#50947415)

APK

P.S.=> Con't in part #4/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #4/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"His newest post is trying to refute that MiTM attack opportunity his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

I DISPROVED it: Hardcoded favs users provide themselves are REVERSE DNS verified & my program filters 5,500++ false positives:

1.) Search engines
2.) Antivirus (e.g. updaters)
3.) Security community sites
4.) Captchas, brower home pages + download pages
5.) Ebay/Amazon (shopper & banking)

(Security community I get hosts data from do false positives filters in current data + removal lists).

---

"won't demonstrate security of his product be exposing the source (someone might steal it!)" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

"the secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code and said it looked all good to them" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

My ware went thru code verification by Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes' hpHosts

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

A competent coder & BEST security researcher I know of FROM THE BEST ANTIMALWARE THERE IS http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

NOT a secretary!

---

YOU BLEW IT ON ADMIN PRIV TOO: My program doesn't require it hosts does (WFP/SFP): my program protects hosts beyond it!

I.E.-> I run manually minus admin priv & drag result to hosts naming it "hosts" overwriting original.

Only auto update needs it (WFP/SFP) & users set it themselves in program shortcut: Not programmatic impersonation.

---

DNS introduces a SECURITY ISSUE RIDDLED SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE & doesn't secure down to endpoints on a LAN -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

How I use remote filtering DNS combined w/ hosts is there showing many DNS security issues hosts overcome.

APK

P.S.=> Con't in part #5/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #5/6

[Anonymous Coward]

"Virus scanners/Adblock software don't need admin priv to update" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Neither does my program. AV does to remove threats - Adblock addons = Vastly INFERIOR in abilities + efficiency vs. hosts as I proved & no one proved me wrong to date!

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"your software does" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

No hosts do (WFP/SFP) - Intake update of new hosts data doesn't!

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"won't reveal your source code" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

I don't owe you it. I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

---

"What's stopping you from pointing my bank's web site at your private server?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

I don't keep a server. Security guru (not - you create no ware for security & your forensics skills = non-existent): Put it in a VM, trace it via process monitor + wireshark (don't need code)!

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"the possibility of being caught, which would be pretty hard to catch w/ such a large hosts file, as no one can go through it manually." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

I put hardcoded fav sites @ top of hosts for speed & reliabilty - spotted easily & bulk of hosts = sorted blocked known bad threats provided by the security community (filtered vs. 5,500++ false positive possibles in my program & by current security community data).

---

"What are you going to do when Windows gets rid of the hosts file completely?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

Hasn't happened!

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"They have already taken steps to make it useless in Windows 10." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

It works there!

Telemetry's killed 10 by itself: VISTA = Win10 = Win8 = flops - who're you fooling other than yourself?

APK

P.S.=> Con't. in #6/6... apk

Coren22 = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" #6/6

[Anonymous Coward]

Coren22 'eats his words' vs. me 2x yet again:

"introduces risk you are relying on a 3rd party to update a hosts file potentially opening you up to MITM attacks" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

How? My prog puts entries in as non-blocking to hostnames on ones users give it as favs to speed up @ TOP of hosts REVERSE DNS VERIFIED!

(For more speed, & reliability + security - in RAM as 1st resolver queried = faster & more secure vs. remote DNS w/ all its security issues in Kaminsky flaw, DNSChanger malware IP stack settings, routers bushwhacked in DNS settings, rogue DNS, Open DNS servers abused by malware. It aids in reliability vs. redirects).

YOU'D SPOT IT INSTANTLY @ TOP OF CUSTOM HOSTS & can easily edit anything you want out!

(Rest = known bad sites from 10 reputable security community sites for blocking - the MAJORITY of what's in my hosts files!)

+ my sources do removal lists vs. false positives & helped me create a "FP" filter in my program (5,500++ of them)!

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"maybe one day you can get a score 5 comment" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

See subject & ~ 12 +5 upmods: "Eat your words" (1st one: You tried using what I post there against me to FAIL):

+5 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (11):

http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://science.slashdot.org/co...
http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...
http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...
http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...
http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

"You believe you are getting the better of me" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

YOU GOT THE BEST OF YOURSELF in fails & lies about me. Your immature signatures about me SCREAM you're butthurt - Did it to yourself.

APK

P.S.=> You fail Coren22... apk

Coren22: EAT YOUR WORDS, retard... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

"the secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code and said it looked all good to them" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

My code went thru verification by Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes' hpHosts

hpHosts Site Admin Mr. Steven Burn quoted:

"I've been asked to further clarify so for the record yes I've seen the code, and yes, it is safe."

FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

(On my latest 9.0++ code engine above & from past versions -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )

A competent coder & BEST security researcher I know of FROM THE BEST ANTIMALWARE THERE IS http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

NOT a secretary!

I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

---

"won't demonstrate security of his product be exposing the source" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Bullshit: 62 reputable sources + /. users say different:

Safe by 57 antivirus programs in 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

the 32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Per VirScan (installer too)-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

APK

P.S.=> Eat your words, scumbag... apk