Microsoft Blames Layoffs For Drop In Female Employees (cio.com)

itwbennett writes: This year, women made up 26.8 percent of Microsoft's total workforce, down from 29 percent in 2014, the company reported Monday. In a blog post discussing the numbers, Gwen Houston, Microsoft's general manager of diversity and inclusion, pointed the finger at the thousands of layoffs the company made to restructure its phone hardware business: 'The workforce reductions resulting from the restructure of our phone hardware business ... impacted factory and production facilities outside the U.S. that produce handsets and hardware, and a higher percentage of those jobs were held by women,' she said.

Comments

SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

This place is getting worst than Tumblr.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Man SJW has always been a thing, just nobody thought of a glib term for it before. You know... Civil rights, suffragettes, peace prize, conservation and recycling, some idiots wrote books like 1984. Oh noes... We would have been much better off building a society of Trump clones and slavers

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is why I pulled my resume off Dice.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Man SJW has always been a thing

What's your problem, you patriarchal rape shitlord?

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Those aren't SJW activities. Just saying, SJW's are much like Freedom Fighters. They fight real social equality, while advocating racism to fight perceived and often phantom racism.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

1. You don't know your history if you're praising the suffragettes.
2. Yes, spoiled upper middle class white kids crying about pronouns and Ovid and calling themselves "otherkin" because they're part cat or wolf are exactly like Susan B Anthony, Martin Luther King, and Orwell (you realize that SJWs are the realization of every fear Orwell wrote about, right?).

You are a fucking idiot.

Re: SJWdot.

[paulej72]

Wait a sec, SJW articles are supposed to be posted only on Fridays. That way people have time to get the latest penis and vagina counts for their office.

Since it is a holiday in the States this week, we have to post the Friday stories early.

Re:SJWdot.

[Garridan]

You don't know your history if you're praising the suffragettes.

Yeah... damn those women! They didn't clean up after their men! Shaaaaaame!

Re:SJWdot.

[Dutch Gun]

Microsoft's general manager of diversity and inclusion

I can think of another job that will be on the cutting block when times start to get lean for MS.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Phantom Racist, what is that, a southern superhero?

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Who's praising? The parent idiot is just saying the shit has been around forever. It's not new. The only thing new is a bunch of whiners whining about it into their pee pants like you instead of lighting crosses on fire and beating women to death like the good old days. Bing Crosby 4 life! Oh and add that Schindler guy to the list of SJW assholes. If it weren't for him, Hollywood would be PERFECT IN EVERY WAY. Fucking Lincoln too, and that asshole Ghandi. Motherfucking Theresa.

Re:SJWdot.

[davester666]

The man with a endless supply of KKK membership forms.

Re:SJWdot.

[vel-ex-tech]

Civil rights, suffragettes

Yes, those people advocated for social justice. Had I been born 100 years earlier, I would have been doing everything I could to support them. Random factoid: the suffragettes were compared to Amazon women in the newspapers of the day. I kinda like that.

I'd think about helping out somehow girls in the worst parts of the Middle East being denied an education, but I'm afraid the problems over there go far deeper than just some civil rights issues for certain demographics. Maybe that's something for me to look into more.

peace prize

Somewhat overrated.

conservation and recycling

These are also important. We have to figure out how to continue technological progress and move past oil dependence, otherwise when the oil runs out, prepare to promptly revert to a medieval lifestyle.

I'll throw this out there. William Lloyd Garrison. Here's a quote if you're having trouble remembering this guy:

On [the abolition of slavery], I do not wish to think, or speak, or write, with moderation. No! No! Tell a man whose house is on fire to give a moderate alarm; tell him to moderately rescue his wife from the hands of the ravisher; tell the mother to gradually extricate her babe from the fire into which it has fallen;â"but urge me not to use moderation in a cause like the present. I am in earnestâ"I will not equivocateâ"I will not excuseâ"I will not retreat a single inchâ"AND I WILL BE HEARD. The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal, and to hasten the resurrection of the dead.

Here's where the confusion comes in and why I don't like the term SJW. That guy was a social justice warrior in the sense you seem to understand the term SJW. I do not think he qualifies as the kind of SJ"W" implied by GP. So, I will use the term social justice trolls (SJTs) to talk about what others call, apparently confusingly, SJWs.

This is a bit long-winded, but I hope the point I want to make will come across.

Back before the twitters and facebooks were being mobbed by SJTs, I was informed by a woman who knew next to nothing about computers (but quite a lot about "social justice") that I was part of the grand conspiracy of misogynerds who didn't want women to be programmers. Did I know Ada Lovelace was the world's first programmer? I was too shocked to point out to her that while Lovelace is generally recognized as the first programmer, did put some astonishing ideas to paper, and advocated for a scientific community that accepted women as equals, that claim is debatable.

The reason I was shocked is that, basically, since I was about 7, I have been trying to get women into programming. That's right, 7. Most of my friends back then were girls, and I had found something fascinating and wonderful in programming I wanted to share with my friends.

Well, fast forward about two decades, and I'm basically in charge of a software deployment and switch-over. This software's killer feature was its inner platform (yes, the anti-pattern) that allowed one to "program" it to customize it. The company was pretty much all female, so I set about trying to train the people who would use it daily. My job was also supposed to be temporary. It turns out that combined with a hefty dosage of math-phobia, I was given an impossible thing to do: "train" my co-workers in "programming" on a completely horrendous inner platform that tried too hard to be Crystal Reports in all the wrong ways.

So it started. I failed with the existing team. So, we brought another one of the line workers in, and she went "I wanna be a programmer!" I tried and again I was frustrated by failure. So then another person, somebody who is reasonably bright I might add, went "I wanna be a programmer!" Unfortunately, she was not in a role that woul

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well honestly, they directly competed and dismantled an equal rights for all group. Just saiyan.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Those aren't SJW activities. Just saying, SJW's are much like Freedom Fighters. They fight real social equality, while advocating racism to fight perceived and often phantom racism.

The difference is that a SJW doesn't want true equality, they just want to be the new top dog.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever. It's had 60 years to simmer in its own juices, and now it's become the oppression it claims to fight.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Those aren't SJW activities. Just saying, SJW's are much like Freedom Fighters. They fight real social equality, while advocating racism to fight perceived and often phantom racism.

This; One of the main things that SJWs struggle against is "microagression". Here's the thing. Where discrimination against black people (in the USA) is a scientifically observed fact, measured, e.g. by many different experiments like sending the same CV with different photos, microagression has no science behind it at all. All the examples you look at will break down to two things - real discrimination ("oh - I'll put your son into sports class - black kids are always better at sport")- or a lost chance to explain something about your culture (cases like someone asking "oh - where are you from"; you could also include here "cultural appropriation" which is a terrible way of naming a bunch of different ways in which cultures cross pollinate and also misunderstand each other). It's actually mostly a way to attack different cultures where words have different meanings whilst often avoiding explaining to people what is wrong with what they are saying or, e.g. in the case of Germain Greer, trying to understand the rather advanced point she is trying to make (women are not simply men without penises).

SJW could be characterised by extreme attempts to discriminate against other social cultures within the same grouping. It can be characterised by attempts to stop the speech of people who have different viewpoints and to block an interrupt debate and interaction between groups with different views about equality, society and relations between people. SJW is a right wing (or extreme left; approximately where the political circle meets at the point of totalitarianism) reactionary grouping which should be seen as closer to the neo-con / neo-liberal / stalinist thinking than to anything which looks for social equality.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not a SJW then, that's just a shit disturber

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

a citation would be nice if you have one.

Re:SJWdot.

[epyT-R]

Nice false dilemma. The SJW moniker is apt. It indicates how 'social justice' has become oppressive in its own right. However I give you props for at least implicitly admitting its marxist underpinnings.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

theroot_com/articles/politics/2011/03/womens_suffrage_and_racism_ida_b_wells_vs_frances_e_willard.html

Re:SJWdot.

[unixisc]

Can someone at least spell out that SJW stands for Social Justice Warrior, instead of forcing people to look it up?

Re:SJWdot.

[UnknownSoldier]

Agreed.

Bitcoin Monday
SWJ Tuesday
Microsoft / Apple Wednesday
etc.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Can someone at least spell out that SJW stands for Social Justice Warrior, instead of forcing people to look it up?

Same can be said for BSD... Except that everyone knows what that stands for...

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be new here...

Re:SJWdot.

[Coren22]

Thank you. You have explained this very succinctly.

Re:SJWdot.

[Coren22]

No, but personally I would rather not have a raving crowd of lunatics dox me and cause me to lose my job because I don't do enough to encourage women to work in tech. Despite that I don't do anything to prevent or discourage women from tech either, it doesn't matter to that crowd.

Re: SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Watch me ignore this.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Can someone at least spell out that SJW stands for Social Justice Warrior, instead of forcing people to look it up?

Same can be said for BSD... Except that everyone knows what that stands for...

Netcraft has confirmed: SJW is dying.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

you need a hand? i imagine those goal posts are getting pretty heavy right about now. i bet you won't find any evidence of that in south africa too!

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

now you're just fucking with me... it's sjw friday! i save time for that.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh no. There is a fine line between fighting for civil rights, and trying to for instance shame and defame a scientist for a t-shirt he wore while throwing labels of misogyny and sexism at him for it.
The later is an SJW. Basically, the secular vehicle for religious moralism. The religious police equivalent, like the mutaween, formed within a political ideology of progressiveness.
It has finally happened that people realize that having a moral superiority complex, and twisting ideas of ethics and morals in order to justify thought policing and censoring freedom of speech, while subjectively and relatively labeling anything you don't like as "hate speech" in order to censor the free speech,
aren't tactics solely associated with religion and religious organization gone mad. It has now finally afflicted liberalism and the "progressive" movement too.
It has come to a point where progressiveness has become as stupid as hardcore conservatism. Feminism especially has been doing a good job being the "Westboro Baptist Church" of the Egalitarian movement.

Re:SJWdot.

[StevenMaurer]

While I agree with most everything you're saying here, I've begun to notice that just like the term "Race Card", the far right is beginning to use "SJW" to shut down serious discussion over real issues - or any topic that might lead to the conclusion that a extreme right wing ethos might not be for the best. This news in this article here shows that Microsoft largely is not hiring women in the U.S., but only for low paying, rote phone manufacturing work overseas, which they've been recently laying off. Personally, I don't know if this is execrable of them, but given that they have a General Manager of diversity and inclusion, I can't help but believe that Microsoft is failing to meets its own goals in this regard.

If people want to call that "SJW", they're turning the term into a meaningless epithet to use as an ad hominem attack when they have nothing worthwhile to say. Ironic, since that kind of behavior is typical of SJWs.

Re:SJWdot.

[BadgerRush]

... microagression has no science behind it at all.

Microagresions is a well established scientific theory with literally (and I really mean literally) thousands of peer reviewed papers published on the subject, including many papers with objective measurements.

Just because a subject goes against your prejudices doesn't mean that you get to falsely claim that it has no science behind it.

Re:SJWdot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Naw, schizophrenice torturers making victims.

Re:SJWdot.

[beastofburdon]

Sorry, but I don't believe you. And if there is, sociologists are not exactly what other scientists would call trustworthy, ethical, or scientific.

Re:SJWdot.

[imidan]

A search on Google Scholar for the term 'microaggression' turns up 2,230 results for me at the moment. Not all of the results will be peer-reviewed journal articles, but many of them will.

Apparently, the origin of the term:

The term microaggression was coined by Chester M Pierce, who defined it as: ‘‘. . . subtle, stunning,
often automatic, and nonverbal exchanges which are ‘put-downs’ of blacks by offenders’’ (Pierce,
Carew, Pierce-Gonzales, & Willis, 1978, p. 66).

I am not a sociologist and am not in a position (nor would I particularly desire) to perform enough literature review to be able to decide whether or not it's all bullshit. But 'microaggression' is apparently a word that is older than I am and enjoys significant use in the discipline.

what are they saying

[Anonymous Coward]

The useless employees were disproportionately female.

Re:what are they saying

[sunderland56]

The useless employees were disproportionately female.

It's a little more subtle.

  - Microsoft bought Nokia
  - Nokia was a company that was much more enlightened than Microsoft, and actually had some female employees
  - Now Microsoft is canning a bunch of those people

  And so - the layoffs are disproportionally female compared to *Microsoft* standards, not compared to Nokia standards, and not compared to other sane companies.

Re: what are they saying

[Anonymous Coward]

H1b workers cannot be female in a majority of indian/korean/taiwanese cultures.

Re:what are they saying

[Anonymous Coward]

+1

Re: what are they saying

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's why:

https://youtu.be/Xf_OlEb5OFg

Re:what are they saying

[Bengie]

Nokia was a company that was much more enlightened than Microsoft, and actually had some female employees

They also had a factory. They didn't have more female programmers, just more female factory workers. Microsoft purchased them then fired most of the factory workers.

Re:what are they saying

[Anonymous Coward]

So... what the GGP said was correct?

Re:what are they saying

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow no wonder they labeled you a troll. Here's some genuine enlightenment:

- Microsoft and Nokia remain separate companies.
- Microsoft is a participant of the United Nation's Women's Empowerment Principals.
- Nokia has not signed.

And so - "Microsoft's" standards are far more enlightened than Nokia's and on par compared to other sane companies.

sauce: http://weprinciples.org/Site/Companies/1

Re:what are they saying

[Anonymous Coward]

Could have been worded much less trolly, but yes.

OMFG!

[Frosty Piss]

OMFG! There was a fluctuation of 2.2 percent in the female employees of a major corporation that has bizzilions of employees that come and go!

This is a very disturbing trend, and I tell you I'm on the phone to Jane Fonda right now!

Re:OMFG!

[Anonymous Coward]

I tell you I'm on the phone to Jane Fonda right now!

Tell her to move back to North Vietnam.

Re:OMFG!

[Frobnicator]

OMFG! There was a fluctuation of 2.2 percent in the female employees of a major corporation that has bizzilions of employees that come and go!

No, it was because they cancelled the phone business.

<sexist sarcasm humor> Clearly since they aren't working on phones any more, they don't need the women. They must have used the women to QA those phones so receptionists and secretaries would be satisfied with the phone's shape and comfort on the female face. Now that the phone division is closed they don't need the women any more. </sexist sarcasm humor>

Re:OMFG!

[Anonymous Coward]

The government just needs to hurry up already and set gender, race and religion requirements for employment at companies. Based on size and industry, you must employ certain percentages of each. Then they can pass a law alongside it making it easier to lay people off when it's being done to meet those requirements. Give every company two years to accomplish the change and extend unemployment to deal with the loss of jobs for some it will cause. As long as they make sure to give an exception to all unions, this should be perfectly fine.

We will then know that all companies are hiring fairly.

Re:OMFG!

[Actually, I do RTFA]

OMFG! There was a fluctuation of 2.2 percent in the female employees of a major corporation that has bizzilions of employees that come and go!

The larger the corporation, and the less turnover it has in general, the more significant a small number is. If there are 49 employees, a 2.2% fluctuation is someone quitting. If there were 2 million employees, with say, 20% layoffs, that a 2.2% reduction between gender groups is extremely significant (p

Re:OMFG!

[Anonymous Coward]

2.2 percent of a bazillion is a LOT.

Re: OMFG!

[Anonymous Coward]

The disconnect between the first paragraph and the last sentence is unreal. I wonder if I'm being baited hard or some people actually believe this

Re:OMFG!

[Anonymous Coward]

I tell you I'm on the phone to Jane Fonda right now!

Tell her to move back to North Vietnam.

It's just Vietnam now.

Re:OMFG!

[jellomizer]

I work in a division where the gender population across the tech folks is 50/50 There is still an open position so depending who we fill in that roll will make the determining factor. However I work in health care, that industry will naturally attract a higher female group.
However in terms of looking at rolls to fill and the people who apply I find the following trends.
Male Tech workers: Focus a lot on the technology, they like to build and create, when there is a problem they will jump in and tackle it. When there is a development job they will be the first to volunteer.
Female Tech workers: Focus on the people, they are more likely to dig into a problem and find where it went wrong, offer suggestions on how to make a product better, and work with others to find what the ideal solution would be.

Working in a hospital we need a good mix of both, however if you are working in a place that builds software far more men will be attracted to that type of work.

Re: OMFG!

[Anonymous Coward]

Or, jellomizer might be saying that women and men are genetically somewhat different. (This should not be a big surprise to a male who has seen a naked woman in real life - but such people may be a bit rarer around here than in many environments.)

It would not be surprising that the gender that has the necessary hardware to not only bear children but to provide them with nutrition in early life as well may have evolved to have somewhat different traits then the gender that has different hardware options. It would also not be surprising that the gender that can spread their genetic material widely at small cost rather than having to go through nine months of pregnancy and a substantial chance of death in childbirth or due to complications during pregnancy for each (at least partially) successful attempt would have evolved to have different traits. It would also not be surprising that the difference of hormone levels between two genders which we know create obvious permanent physical differences may also not have at least some impact on brain development - for examples which parts may be more or less developed.

Male and Female lions have quite different roles/personalities and appear to have had for as long as they have been observed. Do you think this is due to "stereotypes"? Where would these stereotypes get passed so reliably from generation to generation? I've never seen a lion library and I think their paws make it really hard to surf the web on an iPhone. Most every "advanced" species have quite discernible behavioral, physical, and personality differences between the genders -- why would anyone assume this was not the case for humans as well or that it's solely due to "stereotypes"?

Re: OMFG!

[Anonymous Coward]

I might be able to get behind this. What could possibly go wrong?

Companies like Mary Kay would go out of business because they would only be allowed one female to every male, and most men don't want to sell makeup and those that do are usually already working better jobs.

The military would collapse, small towns would have to shut down the fire stations and police stations because not enough qualified women joined.

Your cars would pretty much stop getting repaired because there would be maybe 2-4 mechanics at a few shops.

Lots of manufacturing plants would close down... Our food supply would basically be cut off between the "fairness" of having as many male and female farmers and transporters.

Many people would just start giving jobs way to unqualified people just to be able to get another qualified person all leading to higher operating costs...

  These are just a few things I can think of that might happen... But then again at that point the country would collapse and people would be required by the government to work and then we are one step away from pure communism, just need everyone to earn the same regardless of the amount or quality of work.

Re:OMFG!

[vel-ex-tech]

Heh, we've reached the point where I'm not sure if this is actual trolling. I have one nitpick:

and extend unemployment to deal with the loss of jobs for some it will cause.

That will never happen. If the male gender is what's on your birth certificate, you are expendable.

The problem with these kinds of articles I see is that painting male tech workers as a bunch of sexually frustrated misogynerds (no idea if that's what TFA does) is going to turn women off to the idea of majoring in CS. Hell, it's scaring me out of tech!

Furthermore, focusing on the state of the industry is putting the cart before the horse. We could implement your modest proposal tomorrow, and companies would never be able to comply in two years. The problem is that I need to start seeing which ever demographics we need for "diversity" in classrooms.

This is an example of one of the problems with social justice bullies I outlined above: they keep missing the target!

Figure out why women are not choosing STEM majors. Start at the elementary school level. From what I've been reading here and on the red site, mostly from commenters, the problem at the elementary and middle school level (K-8) seems to be solving itself. Then figure out whether or not differences in high school demographic groups even need to be addressed. (They're teenagers, after all.) Then, finally, figure out why women choose non-STEM degrees.

Once we start seeing whatever diversity target statistics we need in graduates, then and only then can we even begin to think about implementing your modest proposal.

Here's the danger: without diversity in graduates, that leaves companies in a quandary that will inevitably lead to the "diversity hire" problem, which, as we know, makes everything all the worse for everybody.

Ah but hell, maybe that's what the Illuminati want. Still, original point stands. The Illuminati (TPTB, Masters of the Universe, call them whatever) have figured out that nobody cares when an assigned male is left starving and homeless by failed economic policy.

Re: OMFG!

[jellomizer]

No I am saying different genders will gravitate towards different jobs. Towing more women at a job to meet a quota even if that isn't what they want to do, will just cause a higher level of turn over. However as I stated before this is a trend, not a rule. Like any trend there are exceptions... A lot of one, a Trend can mean 51% of a population will fall in such a category (assuming I have a low margin of error) meaning 49% will fall in the minority. 49% is a big minority.

There are a lot of talented women who are just as good if not better then men at the building and creating of technology, if that is what they want to do, we shouldn't say they can't because of their gender. However if there is a balance in the stereotypes and you find your organization isn't having the gender equity, then there is a problem with the organization which will need to be corrected, such as fostering values that will attract women stereotype tech workers to your field, as they will bring something the organization needs anyways.

Re: OMFG!

[Coren22]

Imagine what hospitals and doctors offices would be like, they would have to find men to work as nurses!

Re: OMFG!

[Dog-Cow]

Against my better judgement, I am going to comment instead of modding you down for trolling in your signature.

The nursing profession has been trying to attract more males for decades. There are a number of reasons for this, including the fact that having physically stronger people around can help a lot with immobile patients.

Re: OMFG!

[Anonymous Coward]

So what? Lots of countries have a north. Even Korea has one. I have heard there are countries in Africa that can only afford one compass direction but I can assure you, it's not the case with 'Nam.

Re: OMFG!

[Coren22]

My signature is a response to a trolling campaign, if you want to down mod me for it, so be it, it doesn't much matter to me. I tried to have an adult conversation with him, and discuss issues I saw in his advertising, and with his actual product. All I have gotten in response is this on every post I make:

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

He has stopped this week, but it doesn't change the behavior. I have responded to every one of his points, and demonstrated my side with evidence, but yet I still get trolled massively. APK isn't interested in correcting his mistakes, he won't even admit that he ever makes any. Instead, the only thing he is interested is beating people down until they admit defeat. As I will never do so, I instead have taken to inciting his reaction in the hopes that someone at Dice will notice and block his connection proxying that allows him to post 100s of times in a day when a registered user can only post 50 times. If you think that makes me a troll, that is fine. Most of the responses I get (that aren't APK faking agreeing with himself) are positive, so I won't stop just because some think I am a troll, as it isn't hurting my Karma yet.

Re: OMFG!

[Coren22]

As far as the nursing profession, I am simply giving an example, there are many fields just like it, and there are many fields that no one talks about the gender imbalance in. But when it comes to STEM, we must fix the imbalance, despite all the evidence pointing at women not being interested in the types of jobs STEM offers. Women tend to gravitate to jobs involving socialization, and there is nothing wrong with that. Men tend to gravitate to jobs involving isolation, and there is nothing wrong with that. Trying to force or trick women into moving into STEM is the height of sexism, and this is what I am challenging. The reason I say it is sexist is quite simple, aren't women capable of choosing their careers just as much as men? So perhaps they are choosing to not work in these fields, so why all this effort to push them where they apparently already feel like they don't need to be.

(split post as the combination somehow tripped the lameness filter...I wish I knew why)

Re:OMFG!

[Frosty Piss]

Microsoft has exceptionaly high turnover. It doesn't fit the standard curve.

Re:OMFG!

[beastofburdon]

You forgot about something here. If all jobs have to be 50/50 there will be a shitload of nurses put out of work as well, so there would be extended unemployment, probably through WICK so that men could not access it, but it would exist.

OMG!! Female STEM workers again!?!?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who fucking cares al-fucking-ready?

If women want a STEM career they will get one. Clearly they don't want them. Stop trying to artificially equalize something that has no natural desire to be equal!

Where is all of the outcry about males being less than 10% of the nursing field in the US? https://www.census.gov/people/io/files/Men_in_Nursing_Occupations.pdf

Re:OMG!! Female STEM workers again!?!?!?

[AmiMoJo]

If women want a STEM career they will get one. Clearly they don't want them.

This is so mind numbingly stupid, yet brought up in every debate on the subject, that I can't even be bothered to refute it any more.

Where is all of the outcry about males being less than 10% of the nursing field in the US?

Try ask the American Assembly for Men in Nursing, and look up Mississippi University for Women v. Hogan. Don't people know how to google any more?

Re:OMG!! Female STEM workers again!?!?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is so mind numbingly stupid, yet brought up in every debate on the subject, that I can't even be bothered to refute it any more.

If this is mind numbingly stupid then why is Google and others spending money in an effort to convince females that they should consider a STEM career?

Re:OMG!! Female STEM workers again!?!?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

You answered a rhetorical question. He didn't really want to know where it was, I'm sure he had no doubt that there was *some* outrage someplace; and yes he could have googled it. The point to be made in posing that as a rhetorical question is that to get "women in STEM" outrage you don't have to google. It's served up on a platter every other day.

This, despite the fact that demographics indicate nursing will be in high demand over the next several decades, and can't be outsourced. So sure, let's encourage women to go into STEM jobs that might all go to India next year, and bitch and moan that more of them would rather be nurses.

Re:OMG!! Female STEM workers again!?!?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

By ranting you make it look like you do. Expect to see more of these articles until nobody pays attention. Nobody gives any fucks about male nursing numbers and if someone wrote an article there would be 0 comments and very little views. So....no more articles.

Re:OMG!! Female STEM workers again!?!?!?

[vel-ex-tech]

Fair point for nursing. That is becoming less of a problem. See homecare providers also. I somehow got on a mailing list for a local nursing/homecare association, and they even have a spotlight for men in those professions.

If women want a STEM career they will get one. Clearly they don't want them.

This is so mind numbingly stupid, yet brought up in every debate on the subject, that I can't even be bothered to refute it any more.

Would you please help me to understand why this is mind-numbingly stupid? Up above I talked about my various experiences mentoring women programmers. One was quite brilliant. However, the only woman I know personally who does programming outside of work is trans. There is something going on here, and it seems that the assertion should be more specific: "cisgendered women don't want STEM careers."

That tells me, unlike other people unconsciously blabbering this whole "women are different" axiom, that the problem is social. The problem could be fixed. I'll be blunt: would a world where women may be circumcised at birth, are generally viewed as expendable, are required to sign up for selective service/be drafted, have to worry about being stuck making alimony payments if married or considered being in a common law marriage, have lives that can be completely ruined at the mere accusation of rape or sexual harassment, etc, a world with absolute gender equality, have this problem?

Additionally, I'm having troubles seeing barriers outside of a lack of jobs and asshole gaslighting managers for programming in particular. A couple weeks ago I got a sort of "I wanna be a programmer!" from of one of the line workers, so I told her about code.org, recommended Ruby or Python, and let her know another good learning experience is installing a Linux, even recommended Linux from Scratch when she was comfortable with a command line. I haven't received any follow-up questions. Either that means she's a genius hacker and has grokked things that took me a good 6 months to even figure out when I first started messing around with Linux, or by "I wanna be a programmer!" she meant that she wanted a job like mine. Job being the key word.

If could magically create 3 programming jobs out of thin air, I could, right now, at this very moment, fill them with that trans hacker I know who, you guessed it, was fired by a gaslighting asshole executive, and two black women who have given me "I wanna be a programmer!" in the past 6 months. No, make that 4, since there needs to be room for my current apprentice. Give me 300 programming jobs out of thin air, and I'll bet I could fill them with a veritable army of black, brown, cisfemale, transfemale, probably otherkin!, you name it people. And in flyover country, to boot! These wouldn't just be "diversity hires" either. I have standards, and I'm willing to personally mentor others to meet those standards when somebody in an appropriate job goes "I wanna be a programmer" and it actually means, "Hey, this stuff could really make me a more valuable employee. Help me out, Vel!"

Hell, make that 5. I just remembered I got "I wanna be a programmer!" from, get this, not only black, not only a woman, but trans! Although I hope we won't forget she's a person before all that.

The only thing getting in my way would be that pesky law that says I'd have to consider white male applicants fairly.... Well, and the fact that there are no good jobs to motivate my army of diversity to become programmers. All we're left with is us misogynerds :(

Re:OMG!! Female STEM workers again!?!?!?

[vel-ex-tech]

Let me Google that for you. The first result was a professional association for male nurses, so I'll skip that.

Male Nurses Break Through Barriers to Diversify Profession

Enhancing Diversity in the Workforce

Man Enough: Recruiting Men into Nursing School

Hope that helps!

(It turns out the nurse shortage is so real that they are actually trying to fix this gripe, and salaries are rising as one would expect in response to the demand, unlike in a certain industry. Iow, you're not necessarily wrong in a general sense, but please choose a different example. The are so many to choose from!)

Re:OMG!! Female STEM workers again!?!?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

So why don't they get equal exposure in the media? Is it because of sexism? Is the plight of Men not as important?

Every place I worked at there was exactly equal number of female as male coders, more in some cases. Your issues are imaginary to me, and I'm tired of hearing about it.

Re:OMG!! Female STEM workers again!?!?!?

[Coren22]

AmiMoJo is the local SJW. He is fighting the good fight against everything anti woman. He doesn't care if it is women making the choice, they must be being forced out of the profession at a young age, we must force them to go into STEM as they are too simple and don't know better.

He is fighting for equality, but only for women, who cares if there is sexism against men, men are tough, they can take it.

Re: OMG!! Female STEM workers again!?!?!?

[HagbardCeline6909]

What a horrible comment to get an 'insightful' tag.

Re:OMG!! Female STEM workers again!?!?!?

[vel-ex-tech]

I am aware, but thanks anyway. SJWs like AmiMoJo are why I registered an account again. The red site might be where we all wind up in the long run, but for now, the discussion is here. I left after Slashcott when the red site became stable. (Well, actually /. didn't go in my hosts file until we got Brianna Wu's answers to our interview questions.) When I learned that one of my best apprentices was a feminist I kind of had a moment where up was down, left was right, short was long, and everything I knew was wrong, so I scrambled my password and email on both sites. I wound up learning that Amazon feminism is a thing, but I don't know much about it other than that, well, it exists. So, long story short, I can't prove I'm the UID in my signature, but please take my word for it. (If you have sigs disabled, this is the old trans- this cis- that 6 digit UID poster known as velex.)

What I hope to eventually elicit out of AmiMoJo or some other SJW (entrap him/her into?) is an opinion on the fact that one of the best hackers I know, who happens to be a woman and trans, was fired for being trans and cannot find any more work. She pretty much taught me how to use Javascript correctly (and could probably school any of these SJW punks in using Javascript correctly, safely, and efficiently any day of the week). In fact, she did not even think being trans had anything to do with it until myself and another of her friends pointed out that the things she had been telling us that had been going down about a week or two before she was shitcanned by an asshole executive wasn't proof but a strong indication that there was discrimination afoot.

I also want to know what the SJWs would say to me. My own transition has been on pause for over a decade, but I intend to finally resume it by preparing to be out of the workforce for a while and changing jobs. However, all of this shit, and the realization that transphobia is alive and well among SJWs (unless transphobia is the thing of the week for us to FEEL GUILTY about, but oh, let's give a big name trans woman an award for fucking taking her meds and putting on a dress and problem solved! [Caitlyn Jenner, nothing against her personally unlike my ire at Brianna Wu and the misgendering her shit started from the ACs here.]).

Well, all of this shit has chased me out of tech on the date in about two years when I change my name and begin living full time as a woman. If I need to change jobs to transition (wanting to avoid the bunch of drama I know will ensue from the older women where I work), well, why the fuck not change careers if being assigned the male gender at birth and being in tech automatically makes me a misogynerd.

At this point, flipping burgers looks like a better career than tech. If that changes in two or three years' time, I'll reconsider, but I'm not optimistic.

commentsubjectsarestupid

[Anonymous Coward]

Give it a fucking break, Slashdot, the pandering to SJWs is getting really tired.

Gwen Houston should be next

[metrix007]

It's a difference of .2%, explained by any number of facts.

She is creating a mountain out of a molehill. What real value does she provide? I'd fire an employee in that position making a nonsense post like this without a second thought.

Re:Gwen Houston should be next

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a difference of 2% explained by the fact that the only place where Microsoft employs women in any number are in their Asian hardware factories, where women do the labor that's cheaper for humans to do than machines. Microsoft laid off some hardware folks, which meant a lot of women.

Re:Gwen Houston should be next

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a difference of .2%, explained by any number of facts.

Starting with the fact that you moved the decimal point! What is this, more microsoft math?

Re:Gwen Houston should be next

[Anonymous Coward]

Creating mountains from molehills is how these positions are created (director of diversity, etc).

Why do you think that womens studies majors and culture critics majors and media studies majors are so obnoxiously loud about every retarded little invented thing? Because they have to gin-up their own business. They have to create outrages that only they are qualified to fix for your business, organization, or institution. Otherwise they have literally no employable skills whatsoever.

Re:Gwen Houston should be next

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, she is "Microsoft's general manager of diversity and inclusion", so it's kinda her job.

Yeah, making a blog post about the situation seems a little over the top, but we don't know how much behind the scenes discussion there was before she went public. Maybe she was totally blown off by management.

Re:Gwen Houston should be next

[Actually, I do RTFA]

While correlation is not causation, it's a statsitically significant difference. Therefore, there is something separating those groups. It could be a confound (for instance, maybe the layoffs were limited to those with PhDs, and more women at MS had PhDs), but the test for "is the size of the delta worth talking about" passed.

Re:Gwen Houston should be next

[Bengie]

I must have put a decimal point in the wrong place or something. Shit! I always do that. I always mess up some mundane detail.

Re:Gwen Houston should be next

[Anonymous Coward]

More likely the poster still using an old Pentium.

Re:Gwen Houston should be next

[Anonymous Coward]

What real value does she provide? I'd fire an employee in that position making a nonsense post like this without a second thought.

She reduces how much Microsoft is attacked by SJWs. It's like employing someone with close ties to the mafia so your business doesn't have an unfortunate accident.
Firing that kind of leech is very risky, next thing you know half the company is facing rape charges.

One more layoff required...

[erp_consultant]

While they are at it why not just get rid of the Diversity and Inclusion bimbo? I cringe every time I hear that term. The position should be replaced with General Manager of Competence. That person would be in charge of making sure that the company hires and retains top talent...regardless of their fucking gender or ethnicity.

Re:One more layoff required...

[BarbaraHudson]

Your advice is rejected for the following reasons:

[x] It makes too much sense
[x] It is politically incorrect
[x] It has been tried before

Seriously, if a massive layoff occurs in the construction field, the vast majority of those affected will be male. If a massive layoff occurs in the nursing field, the mast majority of those affected will be female. The underlying problem is that people continue to conflate equality of opportunity with equality of outcome.

Re:One more layoff required...

[Anonymous Coward]

the company hires and retains top talent...regardless of their fucking gender or ethnicity.

"top talent" is a code word for rich white people

Re:One more layoff required...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's right. Those poor Asian female hardware factory workers are every bit as qualified to code as you patriarchal racists!

Re:One more layoff required...

[erp_consultant]

Wouldn't be the first time my ideas have been rejected. But it won't stop me from trying :-)

Re:One more layoff required...

[Pseudonymous Powers]

"top talent" is a code word for rich white people

"$TERM is a code word for rich white people" is a code phrase for "I'm too lazy to actually debate the case on its merits, so I'll just create an intentionally flawed argument and pretend like you said it."

Not that there's not a bunch of racist sexist elitist assholes in the world, but you don't get to just glibly dismiss their points and pretend like you've won the argument. Well, I mean, you absolutely can do that, but it doesn't really count.

Re:One more layoff required...

[erp_consultant]

No - all it means is get the right person for the job. Gender and ethnicity are absolutely meaningless when evaluating skill. If the most qualified person happens to be an Indian female then, by all means, hire her. But the fact that she is female and Indian should in no way give her "bonus points" in the evaluation.

I hire technical people all the time. If you can write code and get along with people then you're in. I could not give a rats ass whether that person is male or female or white or black or asian or whatever. I hire based on skill and aptitude.

Quotas are, by definition, racist and sexist. Quotas, by definition, give preference to one group over another and do not take skill into account.

If top talent is a code word for anything it is fairness.

Re:One more layoff required...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but based on your user name, you probably get paid for many ideas that get rejected (or just don't work after many resources have been poured down the drain).

Re:One more layoff required...

[Locke2005]

Quotas may be justified as a court-ordered remedial measure to address an identified pattern of discrimination, meaning they should be limited in time. So there are limited valid applications for quotas, although in general I agree with your assertion that quotas are bullshit -- any company not hiring the best people for the position is hurting themselves, discrimination is a self-punishing transgression.

Re:One more layoff required...

[erp_consultant]

I just think that there are a lot of variables that contribute towards a given representation. For example, if a company gets 25 applications for a series of positions and 20 of them are men does that mean that they should hire equal number men and women to fill those positions? Maybe there were not enough women qualified, or even interested.

Sure, if there are valid and provable discrimination then a limited remedy might be appropriate. But throwing a big wet blanket over the whole thing just doesn't seem well thought out to me.

AKA Sweatshops

[Anonymous Coward]

"impacted factory and production facilities outside the U.S. that produce handsets and hardware, and a higher percentage of those jobs were held by women,' she said."

Re:AKA Sweatshops

[Anonymous Coward]

and yet everyone here is complaining that this article even exist, yet are happy to ignore that this means hardly any women hold senior positions at Microsoft, and a huge amount of their female work force basically worked the lowest level jobs. Glass ceiling, anyone?

Re:AKA Sweatshops

[BarbaraHudson]

and yet everyone here is complaining that this article even exist, yet are happy to ignore that this means hardly any women hold senior positions at Microsoft, and a huge amount of their female work force basically worked the lowest level jobs. Glass ceiling, anyone?

FTFA

Microsoft's uppermost management ranks have become more racially diverse, with African-Americans making up 2.9 percent of corporate vice presidents, compared to 1.3 percent a year ago. That's likely only a few people, but it's a sign of progress at the top. Microsoft's senior leadership team is now 27.2 percent women, which is the greatest representation of women in that role in the company's history.

The moral of the story is, as usual, that upper management is more likely to survive the cuts. While employment of women overall went down, management beat the trend ... and that you should RTFA before commenting.

FUCK OFF /. with this fem-nazy bull shit!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

FUCK OFF /. with this fem-nazy bull shit!!!

Such a non story

[Anonymous Coward]

Where is the social outrage?

*crickets*

Anyone who's been to the MSFT campus in Redmond knows there are plenty of large-breasted "power" women there, no shortage. Great to look at.

For all the whining about SJW's here.

[Anonymous Coward]

What this says to me is: Microsoft has hardly any women in senior business positions, if layoffs at the low-level of the company trim off that many women from their workforce. That's the issue people should have a problem with, the continued glass-ceiling.

I want quality, not politics

[mi]

Excuse me, but what I expect from corporations (where I am not myself a shareholder) is quality products. I don't give a damn, who they hire and why — as long as they don't enslave workers — and neither should anybody else. Mind your own business, people.

FreeBSD project, to the best of my knowledge, has no females at all — though, at some point, one member chose to identify as one. (He had to announce it because of the name-change.) I doubt, Linux is very different. Compared to that, Microsoft's female participation is amazing, but, once again, it is no one's business — they ought to be judged solely on the quality and prices of their offerings.

There, somebody had to say it...

Re:I want quality, not politics

[Anonymous Coward]

FreeBSD has FreeBSD girl aka Randi Harper https://twitter.com/freebsdgirl

She is not only a woman but an awful SJW attacker. FreeBSD's support of her cause in many discussion list entries is what caused my business to stop our annual donations and migrate >5k hosts over to Linux. Won't disclose the donation amount because that would likely make me identifiable, and I've chosen to vote with my wallet on this and not get dragged into a public political shit show with the FreeBSD team.

Re:I want quality, not politics

[JackieBrown]

FreeBSD has FreeBSD girl aka Randi Harper https://twitter.com/freebsdgir...

She is not only a woman but an awful SJW attacker. FreeBSD's support of her cause in many discussion list entries is what caused my business to stop our annual donations and migrate >5k hosts over to Linux. Won't disclose the donation amount because that would likely make me identifiable

I don't blame you. I just googled her and she is pretty terrifying, cold, and heartless.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-j...

I skipped on the article and started on the list of her victims. Most of those people are people that I'd consider left leaning, but I would not wish what she did on them or anyone. She really has no problem destroying anyone even those that mainly agree with her.

Re:I want quality, not politics

[mi]

FreeBSD's support of her cause in many discussion list entries is what caused my business to stop our annual donations and migrate >5k hosts over to Linux.

That seems so drastic, it is unbelievable...

Wow, didn't know about her. Well, I think, you can go back now — randi@ has not committed anything (to src/) since 2010... Which brings us back to my point — your concern with a software project ought to be first and foremost on the quality of the product.

But, maybe, she works for Microsoft now?

Re:I want quality, not politics

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure the correct pronouns for males are "he" and "him" not "she" and "her".

Re:I want quality, not politics

[Anonymous Coward]

Ooh! Is she another trans person I can direct my ire at instead of singling out Brianna Wu? Do you have proof or did I miss it when I skimmed the Breitbart article? I guess I have some Googling to do.

It makes me sad that I live in a world where these women feel the need to be complete shitlords to gain acceptance as the gender of the body part between their ears :(

Re:I want quality, not politics

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm.. she switched her twitter feed over hiding her old posts. Anyone have a copy of the old feed they could put up? If you were a follower you may be able to still read them.

Re:I want quality, not politics

[AmiMoJo]

Breitbart is not a reliable source of information on this matter.

Re:I want quality, not politics

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't like the news? Attack the source!
--Standard SJW Tactic #2

Re:I want quality, not politics

[vel-ex-tech]

Same AC that posted the sibling comment. (Well, I guess I'm not AC any more!)

The evidence is conflicting. All I'm able to find is hearsay. Would you please provide evidence that Randi is trans?

Here's where I display a bit of bigotry. If she's not trans, I don't give a fuck about her. Being a woman does not preclude one from being an asshole. Brianna Wu is a woman who is an asshole, but I single her out because she is trans. I am very uncomfortable with what such a troll as that asshole can do to all trans women. I was shocked at the deluge of ACs misgendering Wu during the interview threads.

I think Brianna Wu and Randi here can die in a fire, regardless of cis- this or trans- that. I single out Wu because I wish 1.) she would be honest about her history and not go "eww, why would I want to hang out with a bunch of transsexuals?" I get her sentiment--I even agree that in a perfect world, no, we wouldn't need trans- this and cis- that. I don't live in that world, and neither does that bitch. 2.) she would shut up with her lies and bullshit. I've noticed backlash against transgendered people I have never observed before in the past few years. Wu and her ilk are the cause of it.

To be clear: being a woman or being trans does not put one above reproach or above being an asshole. However, being trans was beginning to be tentatively accepted by the mainstream. Then came Obamacare. Then came anti-gamergate. I feel assholes like Wu (and Randi here if you can provide proof) need to be publicly outed and denounced by trans women at large, as much as I would normally find the outing of a trans woman abhorrent.

Interesting times call for interesting measures, I guess. I'm just trying to be practical. Feel free to flame me here.

Re:I want quality, not politics

[Anonymous Coward]

Breitbart is not a reliable source of information on this matter.

Why? Either way, the Breitbart article is full for references. If you think you're getting a slanted version of the story, just check the references. The facts are there to be had for those who care to look.

Re:I want quality, not politics

[turbidostato]

"Excuse me, but what I expect from corporations (where I am not myself a shareholder) is quality products. I don't give a damn, who they hire and why â" as long as they don't enslave workers â" and neither should anybody else"

Wrong, wrong, utterly wrong.

Corporations are corporations because of their Corporate Charter which is to be approved by the State Government. Since the State Government is the civil servant of the State's people, there you have everybody having their damn about what a corporation does and how from its very inception.

You expect from corporations "just quality products" and that's all well and good, but others may expect corporations also to support their local societies and to promote their local values or go making business anywhere else and that's also as good a position as your own.

Re:I want quality, not politics

[mi]

Corporate Charter which is to be approved by the State Government

False. Registering a corporation is not a privilege — it is a right. I don't need your approval to create one. My registration merely informs you, that I intend to do business as a corporation.

everybody having their damn about what a corporation does and how from its very inception

False. The only legal mechanism, through which our nosy government pretending to serve the busybody you can justify its interest in the corporation's internal practices, is through non-discrimination and workplace safety regulations.

but others may expect corporations also to support their local societies and to promote their local values

And my point is, such expectations are stupid, misplaced, and counterproductive.

When choosing a new TV-set, are you going to say: sure, Foo's TVs suck and are more expensive than Bar's, but I'm going to buy one anyway, because Foo, Inc. is hiring more women than Bar, Inc.? Seriously?

Re:I want quality, not politics

[_merlin]

You know she was never connected to FreeBSD in any official capacity. She helped organise the meetbsd conference, but that's it. She worked for Yahoo at one point but was sacked for under-performance, and she's been a professional SJW ever since as far as I can tell.

Yes, get rid of the Diversity and Inclusion bimbo!

[Anonymous Coward]

Get rid of the Diversity and Inclusion bimbo!
Gwen Houston, fuck off!

"Microsoft's GM of diversity and inclusion"

[Anonymous Coward]

The mere fact Microsoft has "general manager of diversity and inclusion" suggests it's a good idea to sell their stock, if you haven't already.

Because aiding and abetting Social Justice Warriors is so much more important than earning money or writing software that works...

Re:"Microsoft's GM of diversity and inclusion"

[BarbaraHudson]

Maybe that title exists because qualified women were being overlooked thanks to the old boys network?

This could easily be seen as trying to get better quality workers without prematurely culling half the herd because of their gender. Nothing SJW there - just sound business sense - if you want to hire the best, you use the largest pool of candidates to draw from. Or do you think that no woman can't be better at a job than a man?

Re:"Microsoft's GM of diversity and inclusion"

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe that title exists because qualified women were being overlooked thanks to the old boys network?

... which would of course also result in overlooking almost as many qualified men, who happen not to be "old boys" except in the most literal sense of the words.

Female employees are for cows.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are all cows. Cows say moo. MOOOOO! MOOOO! Moo cows MOOOO! Moo say the cows. YOU FCOWS!!

Re: Female employees are for cows.

[Anonymous Coward]

And you need to stop playing with your blow up cow and sheep. Get out of mommy and daddy's basement and grow up. Stop living off of them and find your own way in life.

Re: Female employees are for cows.

[Locke2005]

It's not a "blow up sheep", it's a "Love Ewe", thank you very much! https://muttonbone.com/ [muttonbone.com]

Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Layoffs are meant to cut a % of under performing employees. Female ratios > 10% are all affirmative action driven in tech fields. They're just correcting as they should.

Re:Good

[Locke2005]

It's not a "blow up sheep", it's a "Love Ewe", thank you very much! https://muttonbone.com/

Equality of opportunity matters

[sjbe]

Excuse me, but what I expect from corporations (where I am not myself a shareholder) is quality products. I don't give a damn, who they hire and why — as long as they don't enslave workers — and neither should anybody else. Mind your own business, people.

Maybe you don't give a damn about your fellow human beings but those of us who aren't sociopaths do. I want to see people get good opportunities and not be held down because they happened to be born with a different set of genitals or a different skin color. Glass ceilings are a real thing. Clearly you've never seen anyone bump into one but I have. These are real issues that affect real people and in a civilized society we care about what happens to them. People don't have to be enslaved for a workplace to be a very bad place.

We have certain protected classes of people (gender, race, age, etc) precisely because there is clear and unambiguous evidence that if we allow discrimination based on those criteria that the results are bad both for society and for the individuals. The market demonstrably cannot fairly deal with this problem.

Re:Equality of opportunity matters

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations! You don't fucking understand simple words, like "opportunity"!

Everyone has the same opportunity. That doesn't mean everyone starts or ends at the same places. Having 52% women and 48% men in a tech work place doesn't mean it represents adequate opportunity. Your'e just filling in stats, there. For example, I become a developer; not a cake baker. That doesn't mean I didn't have equal opportunity to become a cake baker. It means that I fucking chose to be something else.

Re:Equality of opportunity matters

[Anonymous Coward]

Excuse me, but what I expect from corporations (where I am not myself a shareholder) is quality products. I don't give a damn, who they hire and why — as long as they don't enslave workers — and neither should anybody else. Mind your own business, people.

Maybe you don't give a damn about your fellow human beings but those of us who aren't sociopaths do. I want to see people get good opportunities and not be held down because they happened to be born with a different set of genitals or a different skin color. Glass ceilings are a real thing. Clearly you've never seen anyone bump into one but I have. These are real issues that affect real people and in a civilized society we care about what happens to them. People don't have to be enslaved for a workplace to be a very bad place.

We have certain protected classes of people (gender, race, age, etc) precisely because there is clear and unambiguous evidence that if we allow discrimination based on those criteria that the results are bad both for society and for the individuals. The market demonstrably cannot fairly deal with this problem.

Oh please I've seen far more instances of prejudice going the other way. So many were promoted due to showing a little bit of promise and being able to check the right box.

Sure there could be individual cases where somebody is stupid but its 2015, most companies have over compensated. Similar to Unions of the past, they served a purpose and brought about awareness and changes to laws but now no longer serve a valid purpose.

Re:Equality of opportunity matters

[Anonymous Coward]

So where is the diversity agent advocating for men, in colleges? You know, the places where 60% of the graduates are women, now?

Or are you going to spew some double-standard bullshit about how the graduation statistics are due to *men's choices*, while the statistics in some fields of employment having a ratio of women to men different than the overall national population is due to men *oppressing* women?

Also, are you fucking shitting me with this "minorities" bullshit?

Have you ever walked through a tech company? We are overflowing with men, women, transgender people, gay people, lesbians, asians, indians, romanians, and countless other ethnicity. If you think otherwise, it only shows that you either don't work in tech or you don't raise your head from your desk.

Re:Equality of opportunity matters

[mi]

those of us who aren't sociopaths

Easy with the name-calling. Please, don't hate.

Glass ceilings are a real thing.

Whether that's true or not, there is not one in Linux (nor FreeBSD) project. And yet, the ratio of females there is even worse, than at Microsoft.

People don't have to be enslaved for a workplace to be a very bad place.

If the free people willingly choose to work somewhere, then it can not be that bad.

there is clear and unambiguous evidence that if we allow discrimination based on those criteria that the results are bad both for society and for the individuals

Such a claim sounds rather hollow without citations. Got any?

Your "anti-discrimination" (poorly) fights symptoms, not the problem — which only gets worse because of your efforts, as we are forced to wonder, if a protected minority occupying an important post really deserved it, or got it thanks to the color of his skin. Racial relations today are worse than before — with Blacks especially alienated.

Your approach demonstrably failed. Decades ago we surrendered an essential liberty to your kind in exchange for a promise of harmony, and now we have neither the liberty nor the harmony. Look at Baltimore — despite having Black mayor and Black police commissioner, it still got racial tensions like nowhere else... It is such an egg on your face, your wisest now blame lead paint!

You are a pathetic failure. And yet, instead of pulling back to reflect on what went wrong, your kind doubles and triples down with new charges. Today even the belly-dancing or yoga are off-limits to the Whitey.

Constitution is junk to you — you may preach "tolerance", but wish to ban "hate speech". And that includes everything that makes you uncomfortable.

The market demonstrably cannot fairly deal with this problem.

Because it is not a market problem. In fact, I am not convinced, it is a problem at all. But, if it is, you and yours are the least qualified to address it.

Re:Equality of opportunity matters

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft is a participant of the United Nation's Women's Empowerment Principals. Nokia is not. http://weprinciples.org/Site/Companies/1

Re:Equality of opportunity matters

[Locke2005]

Where is the diversity agent advocating against Asians in California college admissions? Where is the diversity argument arguing that I should be able to date my fair share of supermodels? Yes, I find the entire concept of a "protected class" galling, ideally everybody should be treated the same -- as human beings. The "glass ceilings" still exist because promotion is based on experience, and women have not been in managerial positions as long as men have, so on average most women have less experience. Those that have been working for the company forever do get promoted, e.g. Ursula M. Burns serves as Chairwoman and CEO of Xerox. The disproportionate number of women that got laid off was because they were newer hires, no conspiracy there.

Re:Equality of opportunity matters

[Anonymous Coward]

Where is the diversity agent advocating against Asians in California college admissions?

Asians do get "penalized" in some college admissions

Re:Equality of opportunity matters

[wyHunter]

And yet, to say that it's terrible that women are not in computer science in grand numbers and there is a glass ceiling -- substantiate that. I live and work in the USA and EVERYWHERE I have worked for the past THREE DECADES in software engineering and development across a number of industries - healthcare, telecom, internet security, and more - we have tried very hard to hire women and ethnic minorities for jobs. You cannot hire folks for jobs when they do not submit resumes. And this is what has happened. Are women discouraged from studying computer science at University? I do not know this, and therefore cannot comment on it. I do know that working for some pretty renowned R&D organization (Bell Laboratories, Bellcore, others) there simply were not female candidates presenting resumes and we could therefore not interview and hire them. To claim that this industry is inherently sexist is illogical. If you want to say that girls are not encouraged to study mathematics, science, and applied mathematical disciplines like computer science in grammar school, high school, college/university, and they are therefore sexist may be so - I have no data on this.

United Nation’s Women’s Empowerment Pr

[Anonymous Coward]

The principles were established by the United Nations Entity for Gender Equality, the Empowerment of Women and the United Nations Global Compact. The seven principles outlined for businesses offer guidance on how to empower women in the workplace, marketplace and community.

The principles:

        Establish high-level corporate leadership for gender equality.
        Treat all women and men fairly at work – respect and support human rights and nondiscrimination.
        Ensure the health, safety and well-being of all women and men workers.
        Promote education, training and professional development for women.
        Implement enterprise development, supply chain and marketing practices that empower women.
        Promote equality through community initiatives and advocacy.
        Measure and publicly report on progress to achieve gender equality.

Microsoft is a participant and signatories of the UNWEP. Nokia is/was not.
http://weprinciples.org/Site/Companies/1

So by absorbing Nokia where the layoffs occurred Microsoft was at no fault that those layoffs resulted in a large chunk of women workers which they had no control over the hiring process in the first place. This story truly is a bunch of senseless tears /. is trying to drum up in order to push a liberal agenda.

Pretty predicable comments

[Anonymous Coward]

Nuff said.

Facorty workers

[Anonymous Coward]

In other words, they fired a lot of factory workers in Asia which is largely female.

Opportunities are not equal for everyone

[sjbe]

Everyone has the same opportunity.

No they do not. You have to be phenomenally clueless or bigoted to think otherwise. The same opportunities are NOT available to everyone. That was the entire point of the civil rights movement and the suffrage movement. Just because you have some choices doesn't mean everyone else does. Opportunity can be taken away very easily by institutions (government and private) if we allow it to occur. Opportunity is a fragile thing and not everyone gets equal opportunity under the law or in society. Bigotry, racism, and sexism and discrimination are real things with real consequences. Those who have to actually face them by definition do not have equal opportunity. The fact that some people manage to break through does not mean that the gap in opportunity is not real for many many people.

For example, I become a developer; not a cake baker. That doesn't mean I didn't have equal opportunity to become a cake baker. It means that I fucking chose to be something else.

Wow do you not get it. If everything is so equal as you claim then why do we see non-white people incarcerated at disproportionate rates? Why do we see older people having trouble getting tech jobs even when they are well qualified for them? Why do we see a congress that doesn't even begin to resemble the demographics of the country? You think because you chose one job over another that there is no inequality in the real world? That's just ignorant as hell.

Re:Opportunities are not equal for everyone

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow do you not get it. If everything is so equal as you claim then why do we see non-white people incarcerated at disproportionate rates?

There's a certain correlation between incarceration and committing crimes. Whites are slightly more violent than Asians (chinese/japs, not Indians) so that's why fewer Asians are in prison. People are not equal, the opportunities are.

Why do we see older people having trouble getting tech jobs even when they are well qualified for them?

Experienced old people are more expensive and work less insane hours than young people.

Why do we see a congress that doesn't even begin to resemble the demographics of the country?

Democracy at work.

You think because you chose one job over another that there is no inequality in the real world? That's just ignorant as hell.

His point is that the difference may be not because there's a huge conspiracy between all White men, whose aim is to only hire men even if it costs them more (no big corp would do that), but because women don't want these jobs. But to hell with what women want, what matters is a 1:1 ratio, right?

Re:Opportunities are not equal for everyone

[Anonymous Coward]

I get a doberman because dobermen have certain behavioral traits I like. When the current one dies, I will replace it with another doberman. Its behavior will be similar.

People get pit bulls because they have certain behavioral traits they like.

All animals of a type behave very similarly.

Within every group of animals there are sub groups and sub-breeds.

I been working in tech over 12 years and the only 3 'blacks' I worked with were half-white.

There is no equality between breeds. Every breed has its strengths and weaknesses.

The races aren't equal. Just look at where the races come from and see what their group has accomplished. Africa? Straw huts, loin cloths and spears.

Re:Opportunities are not equal for everyone

[Anonymous Coward]

Because non-white people are, at a disproportionate rate, involved in crimes?

Re:Opportunities are not equal for everyone

[Grishnakh]

There is no lack of opportunity in STEM, especially computer programming. The barrier to entry is ridiculously low: all you need is a computer, which these days you can get for next to nothing if you get something used and old. You don't need teachers or mentors, you can learn everything on your own. A kid who really has an interest and wants to get into it can, as long as their parents support them.

The place where things really aren't equal and it really matters is in peoples' upbringing. Parents and society encourage little girls to believe they're Disney princesses and that math and tech work isn't for them. Girls are also trained to be much more social than little boys, and this also makes them avoid STEM careers which are not usually seen as highly social.

There's not much you can do about this, because it's a product of wider society, and also parenting. The only way you can change this is to ban parenting, and only have kids raised in government institutions like in Brave New World. And finally, trying to do things at, say, the high school level to address the inequity is way, way, way too late.

If everything is so equal as you claim then why do we see non-white people incarcerated at disproportionate rates?

That has absolutely nothing to do with why women don't go into STEM. That's a problem with socioeconomic trends that are hard to change, and also with ongoing racism in the law enforcement profession. This last one isn't going to change any time soon when police departments selectively weed out applicants who are too smart, and only want to hire dumb thugs.

Why do we see older people having trouble getting tech jobs even when they are well qualified for them?

You can blame that on the H1-B program, and of course the greed of employers. Cut the supply and the employers will be forced to shape up.

Why do we see a congress that doesn't even begin to resemble the demographics of the country?

The same socioeconomic trends that mean black people still are, on average, poorer than white people. The people in Congress look a lot like the people who run corporations; they're from mostly the same socioeconomic groups. There's a high correlation with racial and gender demographics there.

Re:Opportunities are not equal for everyone

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, opportunity isn't equal, but with respect to coding, anyone can learn it by studying online at this point. You do not need anything but internet access, and you can get that for free at your local library. That won't apply outside of the country where computers and access are less common, of course, but that's not really what this article is about at all.

As far as incarceration goes, men are incarcerated far more than women. So what has that to do with coding? At least within this country, we certainly do have reasonably similar opportunities to code and people making excuses only hurt themselves in the end.

Re:Opportunities are not equal for everyone

[wyHunter]

We see non white people incarcerated at disproprtionate rates because...drum roll...they commit more crimes. I grew up in a terrible neighborhood with little economic opportunity, a somewhat unstable family, and the same opportunities to break the law that others I knew DID - yet I didn't do it. It's called choices. Now there IS inequality in the world - some people DO win the genetic lottery and are (say) smarter than others. But one thing we all need to do is make the best of the talents we have. Now, if you want to say there is less economic opportunity because of a loss of jobs that do not require high intelligence that pay well, and this leads to some folks who might otherwise be working merely 'getting into mischief' I might sort-of agree with you. But UPS is often hiring, and, yes, women can be and are UPS drivers, and they make good wages for a high school diploma jobs. And they OFTEN HAVE TROUBLE FINDING STAFF WHO AREN'T DRUG USERS AND CAN PASS DRUG TESTS, OR AREN'T ALREADY FELONS, TO FILL OPEN POSITIONS. Guess what? Some of us don't say 'gee it's saturday night let's go out and knock off liquor store and party down" but we do our homework and study for our test next week - or in my case, did this decades back. It's called...choices.

Re:Opportunities are not equal for everyone

[Anonymous Coward]

Smells like teen spirit.....

Re:Opportunities are not equal for everyone

[Anonymous Coward]

Your "opportunities" are always, forever, going to be represented by a bell curve. The only way to make life "fair" is to put everyone in a cage in a zoo, or make them a battery a la Matrix. I'm sure you'd be completely content either way. Me, I'm happy rolling the dice: that's life. I've had a few ups and a few downs, and though I'm currently in a down, as long as I can keep a roof over my head and stay out of trouble I'm sure I will dig out of it.

Re:Opportunities are not equal for everyone

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone has the same opportunity.

No they do not.

Obviously. Someone who is not a US citizen does not have the same opportunities to live or work or travel or vote or hold political office in the USA. For that matter, someone who is younger that 35 doesn't have the same opportunity to be president. As a practical matter, a person who is gay or not christian also does not have the same opportunity to be president. And then there's the opportunity to not be forced to fight in a war you don't believe in: men risk being drafted into a war while women do not.

For just about any class of people, it's possible to find instances of systematic mistreatment or denial of opportunities (discrimination). Given the US history of slavery and discrimination, a strong case could be made that black people in the USA are unique in the degree of mistreatment that they have faced. But pretty much everyone can point to some instance of systematic mistreatment or disadvantage.

So how can we assess the collective privilege or disadvantage of a particular group of people? One approach, that borrows from John Rawls' theories of social justice, would be to ask how willing we would be to be a member of a particular group. For example, we could ask whether most women wish that they had been born as men - for all the privileges that brings? Or whether when a man sees a random woman on the street he thinks to himself "But for the grace of God I could have been born a woman - oh what horror that would be!" Or, when parent in the USA learn that their child will be a daughter rather than a son, do they feel very sad because of the hardships they expert their daughter to face - simply for being a woman?

Personally, I don't think I would mind being an (American) woman - or having an (American) daughter. It's actually when I see a homeless person that I most think that I wouldn't want to switch places. And one of my biggest fears is for my children to be trapped in poverty. I imagine that there are plenty of poor people who would like to change places with a rich person - or at least with another person who is not poor. And, while rich people do sometimes complain about the difficulties of being rich, very few of them donate all their money to charity and attempt to support their family on a minimum wage job at Walmart.

So, while there are definitely things that could be done to reduce gender-based prejudice and mistreatment (on both sides), I'm do wonder whether there are other groups of people who might be more in need of assistance - that, if we are to prioritize, then perhaps the most pressing question is how to provide poor people, of all races and genders, with more equal opportunities.

Re:Opportunities are not equal for everyone

[Sibko]

You go off about sexism, racism, bigotry and so forth as the primary points of discrimination.

I've found that it's none of those in practice. Instead it's who you've networked with and how much money you have.

Funny how the social justice warriors never focus on the real inequalities in our society. Maybe the fact that most of them come from well-off families has a part to play in that.

News flash, nobody is happy

[Anonymous Coward]

I was thinking the other day, nobody is happy anymore. College kids want free college, Blacks think the only enemy is the Police, ISIS wants to kill just because you praise a different God. Obama thinks climate change will kill you before ISIS. I can't even begin to understand how a comedian can work these days without offending someone and getting sued. Its the attack of the minority these days, everyone has a grind on someone or some issue. You turn of the news and all you hear is someone protesting something. These people that complain about diversity, has anyone ever thought that maybe the lack of some race, sex, or ethnic background is most likely the lack of qualified people for jobs that are available? What? are companies just supposed to hire a quota no matter if they need them or not?

Difficult to believe

[Anonymous Coward]

That a company like MS would have a "general manager of diversity and inclusion" position. Losing millions in their mobile adventure is one thing, but wasting money on such a useless position is obscene.

Now we know what it stands for

[Hognoxious]

You have to put new cover sheets on all the Tunnel Pecker Statistics reports before they go out now.

Bigotry from AmiMoJo once again

[Anonymous Coward]

Tiny, underfunded groups that are actively picketed by feminists during tradeshows pale in comparison to the kowtowing and discrimination demanded in favor of women that don't want to go to STEM every damned week.

Hell, how often do you post on any story that isn't in favor of discriminating against men in favor of women? You have done it so much at other sites they have all but completely ran you off and this is one of the few left that put up with your bullshit bigotry.

Microsoft has not hired enough trannies

[Anonymous Coward]

Shame on them!

Obvious solution:

[Locke2005]

Hire people to make sammitches for all the other employees. That should drive the female employee rate way up!

Re:Obvious solution:

[Phil Urich]

I'd assume you were purely joking, in which case it's kindof funny, but with the way these comments threads go I'm worried that you might actually think "haha but really what are women good for otherwise?". So I don't know quite how to respond to that, and instead I'm going to harp on the other clearly ridiculous thing you said, ie. the part where you seem to be equating the rather great scheme of "sudo" with the vastly inferior "UAC". For shame!

So reading between the lines, Microsoft's excuse..

[Phil Urich]

...is that the company they bought (ie. Nokia) did a far better job of hiring women in their offices around the world than Microsoft does in America, and thus when they went ahead and starting laying off the ex-Nokia employees that was enough to make a multi-percentage difference in employee gender composition? That doesn't really seem to let Microsoft off at all, it just changes the rote details of what they're on the hook for.

Coren22's "APKolypse"... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

"the secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code and said it looked all good to them" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

My code went thru verification by Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes' hpHosts

hpHosts Site Admin Mr. Steven Burn quoted:

"I've been asked to further clarify so for the record yes I've seen the code, and yes, it is safe."

FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

(On my latest 9.0++ code engine above & from past versions -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )

A competent coder & BEST security researcher I know of FROM THE BEST ANTIMALWARE THERE IS http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

NOT a secretary!

I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

---

"won't demonstrate security of his product be exposing the source" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Bullshit: 62 reputable sources + /. users say different:

Safe by 57 antivirus programs in 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

the 32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Per VirScan (installer too)-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

APK

P.S.=> Eat your words, scumbag:

Tell us about AD + DNS too while you're @ it & how you said I said not to run DNS when I use it myself & said to NOT use external to network DNS with AD http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

OR

About how my program NEEDS admin privelege to update too (& it doesn't http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )

LOL... fool - 'eat your words' on ALL those accounts chump!

... apk

Re:Coren22's "APKolypse"... apk

[vel-ex-tech]

Nobody cares, apk. Do you have a script that just posts this junk whenever Coren posts?

Re: Coren22's "APKolypse"... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

APK is so evil. He hates us so much and wants us to die. You should never vote for APK. He says moo. He says moo.

Coren22's "APKolypse"... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

"the secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code and said it looked all good to them" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

My code went thru verification by Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes' hpHosts

hpHosts Site Admin Mr. Steven Burn quoted:

"I've been asked to further clarify so for the record yes I've seen the code, and yes, it is safe."

FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

(On my latest 9.0++ code engine above & from past versions -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )

A competent coder & BEST security researcher I know of FROM THE BEST ANTIMALWARE THERE IS http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

NOT a secretary!

I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

---

"won't demonstrate security of his product be exposing the source" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Bullshit: 62 reputable sources + /. users say different:

Safe by 57 antivirus programs in 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

the 32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Per VirScan (installer too)-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

APK

P.S.=> Eat your words, scumbag:

Tell us about AD + DNS too while you're @ it & how you said I said not to run DNS when I use it myself & said to NOT use external to network DNS with AD http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

OR

About how my program NEEDS admin privelege to update too (& it doesn't http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )

LOL... fool - 'eat your words' on ALL those accounts chump!

... apk

Coren22's "APKolypse"... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

"the secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code and said it looked all good to them" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

My code went thru verification by Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes' hpHosts

hpHosts Site Admin Mr. Steven Burn quoted:

"I've been asked to further clarify so for the record yes I've seen the code, and yes, it is safe."

FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

(On my latest 9.0++ code engine above & from past versions -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )

A competent coder & BEST security researcher I know of FROM THE BEST ANTIMALWARE THERE IS http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

NOT a secretary!

I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

---

"won't demonstrate security of his product be exposing the source" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Bullshit: 62 reputable sources + /. users say different:

Safe by 57 antivirus programs in 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

the 32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Per VirScan (installer too)-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

APK

P.S.=> Eat your words, scumbag:

Tell us about AD + DNS too while you're @ it & how you said I said not to run DNS when I use it myself & said to NOT use external to network DNS with AD http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

OR

About how my program NEEDS admin privelege to update too (& it doesn't http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )

LOL... fool - 'eat your words' on ALL those accounts chump!

... apk

Re:So reading between the lines, Microsoft's excus

[wyHunter]

Or is it that Finnish women are more capable?

I grow tired of women complaining about...

[Anonymous Coward]

I grow tired of women complaining about...

1) Wanting equal pay for equal work, and then using the pay gap to 'prove' they don't have this, when clearly the problem is that they don't want to work the overtime, or enter fields that pay more. If all you want to do is be a hotel maid or waitress, don't bitch about the fact you don't get paid as much as the doctor or lawyer.

2) Pronouns. Don't you have more important issues than trying to figure out what new fangled pronoun you want to use to artifically label people.

3) Being offended. You do not have a right to NOT be offended. Sorry, but if I disagree with you, and you take offence at it, that's your problem, NOT mine. This is especially true if my objections are based on facts and evidence, when all you have is "reasons".

4) Not being represented in politics. If you want 50% of your elected officials to be women, then you need to either step up to the mike and run, or change your voting habits to vote more women in. I have no problem with having female elected officials, but I'll be damn if I'm going to be forced into a quota system. (Aside, what Justin Trudeau did to deliberately select a cabinet that was 50/50 men/women immediately resulted in a cabinet that was not the best one. Doing any quota always results in some people getting the job who didn't deserve it based on merit. In fact, it's entirely possible that his cabinet isn't the best one because it doesn't have enough women, but he should have selected his cabinet based on merit alone, and not what kinda junk you have between your legs)

5) Rape culture. Rape is a crime, period, and it should be reduced/eliminated. There's no question there. However, you can't expect me to take people seriously when they either A) report a false rape or B) don't report the rape at all. Police and Universities should not have any choice in laying charges for rape. We don't give the victim a choice to lay charges for domestic abuse anymore, why the hell should we allow the victim to choose it for rape? Yes, the criminal system is adversarial and the accused must be assumed innocent until proven guilty. But it's not fair to other victims to allow a guilty party to go free for any crime. If you get raped, it's horrible, I get it, but damn it, report it to the police and get the guilty person convicted. We don't want rapists on the streets anymore than you do, but we can't put them in prison if you don't report it.

6) Patriarchy and male privilege. Please get over yourself. You have all the rights a man has, and sometimes a little more (family law, rape accusations, etc). If you aren't going to actually USE your rights to change the system, it's not my bloody fault. See 1, 3, 4, and 5 for examples.

7) That there's no good guys left. Well maybe if you stopped bitching about the above, and treated us with a little respect, we wouldn't be going all MGTOW on you. But, as it stands today, I would warn my son NOT to marry. It's a no-win situation for a man.

Change your registered 'luser'name to?... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: "ThE ProJeCtioNisT", lol - as you're projecting you care in your statement alone. Examine your illogic-logic.

* :)

(You fail, thanks for playing...)

APK

P.S.=> I can see you, lmao, holding the camera shooting a Pr0N flick or something (hahahaha) you're projecting SO badly, lmao... apk

Re:Change your registered 'luser'name to?... apk

[vel-ex-tech]

I can see you, lmao, holding the camera shooting a Pr0N flick or something

On an odd sidenote, I might actually do this. I have been wanting a pr0n flick that had some actual plot, possibly a gender change at some point, consensual of course. There are many themes to explore here. I hate this plague of non-consensual gender (and species!) changes that has established itself in the TF community.

In a footnote, I would like to note that I find your hosts file admirable.

The fall of mankind...still falling

[Anonymous Coward]

In a very old book called "Genesis" there is a story of the first woman who, dissatisfied with what she had, decides that she wants more and in taking an action which was forbidden began the never ending insatiable desire for that which is in excess of what we have. There are some women who are really happy being women - beautiful, sweet, strong, intelligent and feminine women. Those women are treasures indeed. The women who are not satisfied with being women want power over others. All evil begins with the desire for power over others. Nothing has changed in many thousands of years. No technology will change it, no law will change it. It is driven by envy what what others have. It is the state of the human condition.

No one deserves that which belongs to someone else. No one is ultimately entitled to anything. We are all on the same level. Complaining that someone else got a job you wanted is simply envy. If it was yours to have then you would have it. Life is not fair. Some people get cancer. Some kids die at birth. Some people get struck by lightning. Houses burn down. Disease happens. Some of us get lucky and some of us do not. It is not right for one to seize by force or coercion something that is not freely given. That is theft.

While I'm certain that this remark will be flamed mightily by those that call themselves atheists (which is just another faith without proof) you cannot help but see the wisdom in "love your neighbor" and "do not covet what belongs to thy neighbor". It would certainly make for a more peaceful world.

Stay at home dad here

[Anonymous Coward]

Know how many times on sites that talk about raising kids that they refer to the child as "he" or the parent as "he" or the "dad"? Fucking never. Know how equality works? BOTH genders have to strive for it. Stop the hypocrisy.

Re:So reading between the lines, Microsoft's excus

[Anonymous Coward]

Nokia was a hardware company and women have a long history of being used for unskilled labor in factories(or elsewhere if you catch my drift). Just look at Les Miserables!

Thank-You... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

"I would like to note that I find your hosts file admirable." - by vel-ex-tech (4337079) on Tuesday November 24, 2015 @10:27PM (#50999097)

See subject: It works & gives users more speed, security, reliability + anonymity than any other SINGLE solution out there, bar-none (and for considerably less, orders of magnitude in fact, resource use - using what you already HAVE NATIVELY in higher cpu serviced kernelmode (vs. slower usermode) vs. stupidly & illogically "bolting on 'MoAr'" for no good reason that doesn't even do as much from a single file).

APK

P.S.=> Enjoy... apk

Suffragetts should have been killed.

[Anonymous Coward]

>In the United States, as late as the 1880s most States set the minimum age at 10-12, (in Delaware it was 7 in 1895).[8] Inspired by the "Maiden Tribute" female reformers in the US initiated their own campaign[9] which petitioned legislators to raise the legal minimum age to at least 16, with the ultimate goal to raise the age to 18. The campaign was successful, with almost all states raising the minimum age to 16-18 years by 1920.

Suffragetts should have been killed.

Coren22's "APKolypse"

[Anonymous Coward]

"secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code & said it looked all good" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes' hpHosts

"I've been asked to further clarify so for the record yes I've seen the code & yes it is safe." FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

---

"I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

60++ reputable sources say different:

64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Installer-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

---

"MiTM attack his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Hardcoded favs users provide = REVERSE DNS verified & my ware filters 5,500++ false positives - security site hosts data = false positives filtered.

---

"Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

Where'd I say it? Show us (not illogic logic but where I literally say it). I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there.

---

"why privilege escalation's a bad thing?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

How else can I programmatically update hosts?

"requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

Hypocrite later admits it - hosts itself need it vs. WFP/SFP not my ware. Users set it, not programmatic impersonation. Security wares need it.

APK

P.S.=> You fail Coren22 - this has been YOUR "APKolypse" (& those are only part of your many fails I can put out)... apk

Coren22's "APKolypse"

[Anonymous Coward]

"secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code & said it looked all good" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes' hpHosts

"I've been asked to further clarify so for the record yes I've seen the code & yes it is safe." FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

---

"I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

60++ reputable sources say different:

64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Installer-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

---

"MiTM attack his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Hardcoded favs users provide = REVERSE DNS verified & my ware filters 5,500++ false positives - security site hosts data = false positives filtered.

---

"Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

Where'd I say it? Show us (not illogic logic but where I literally say it). I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there.

---

"why privilege escalation's a bad thing?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

How else can I programmatically update hosts?

"requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

Hypocrite later admits it - hosts itself need it vs. WFP/SFP not my ware. Users set it, not programmatic impersonation. Security wares need it.

APK

P.S.=> You fail Coren22 - this has been YOUR "APKolypse" (& those are only part of your many fails I can put out)... apk

Coren22's "APKolypse"... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

"secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code & said it looked all good" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes

"I've been asked to further clarify so for the record yes I've seen the code & yes it is safe." FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

---

"I guess we should avoid your crap it looks like malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

60++ reputable sources say different:

64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Installer-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

---

"MiTM... his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Hardcoded favs users provide = REVERSE DNS verified & my ware filters 5,500++ false positives - security site hosts data = false positives filtered.

---

"privilege escalation's a bad thing" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

How else can I programmatically update hosts?

"requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

Hypocrite later admits it - hosts needs it vs. WFP/SFP not my ware. Users set it not programmatic impersonation. Security wares need it.

---

"Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

Show us where I say it? Not illogic logic but where I literally say it. I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there.

APK

P.S.=>

"modding you down for trolling in your signature" - by Dog-Cow (21281) on Wednesday November 25, 2015

What others like Dog-Cow (old acc't. not a new sockpuppet from you) thinks of your signatures about me

... apk

Coren22's impersonation "APKolypse"

[Anonymous Coward]

Coren22 IMPERSONATES RESPECTED MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY COMMUNITY http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

---

"privilege escalation's a bad thing" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

How else programmatically update it?

"requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

Hypocrite later admits it - hosts do vs. WFP/SFP not my ware. Users set it not programmatic impersonation. Security wares need it.

---

"secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code & said it looked all good" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes

"yes I've seen the code & yes it is safe." FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

---

"we should avoid your crap it looks like malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

60++ reputable sources say different:

64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Installer-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

---

"MiTM... his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Hardcoded favs users provide = REVERSE DNS verified & my ware filters 5,500++ false positives - security site hosts data = false positives filtered.

---

"Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

Show us where I say it? Not illogic logic but where I say it. I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there.

APK

P.S.=>

"modding you down for trolling in your signature" - by Dog-Cow (21281) on Wednesday November 25, 2015

Dog-Cow's (old acc't. no new sockpuppet from you) thoughts of your signatures about me

... apk

Coren22's impersonation "APKolypse"

[Anonymous Coward]

Coren22 IMPERSONATES RESPECTED MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY COMMUNITY http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

---

"privilege escalation's a bad thing" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

How else programmatically update it?

"requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

Hypocrite later admits it - hosts do vs. WFP/SFP not my ware. Users set it not programmatic impersonation. Security wares need it.

---

"secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code & said it looked all good" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes

"yes I've seen the code & yes it is safe." FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

---

"we should avoid your crap it looks like malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

60++ reputable sources say different:

64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Installer-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

---

"MiTM... his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Hardcoded favs users provide = REVERSE DNS verified & my ware filters 5,500++ false positives - security site hosts data = false positives filtered.

---

"Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

Show us where I say it? Not illogic logic but where I say it. I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there.

APK

P.S.=>

"modding you down for trolling in your signature" - by Dog-Cow (21281) on Wednesday November 25, 2015

Dog-Cow's (old acc't. no new sockpuppet from you) thoughts of your signatures about me

... apk

Coren22's impersonation "APKolypse"

[Anonymous Coward]

Coren22 IMPERSONATES RESPECTED MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY COMMUNITY http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

---

"privilege escalation's a bad thing" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

How else programmatically update it?

"requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

Hypocrite later admits it - hosts do vs. WFP/SFP not my ware. Users set it not programmatic impersonation. Security wares need it.

---

"secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code & said it looked all good" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes

"yes I've seen the code & yes it is safe." FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

---

"we should avoid your crap it looks like malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

60++ reputable sources say different:

64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Installer-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

---

"MiTM... his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

Hardcoded favs users provide = REVERSE DNS verified & my ware filters 5,500++ false positives - security site hosts data = false positives filtered.

---

"Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

Show us where I say it? Not illogic logic but where I say it. I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there.

APK

P.S.=>

"modding you down for trolling in your signature" - by Dog-Cow (21281) on Wednesday November 25, 2015

Dog-Cow's (old acc't. no new sockpuppet from you) thoughts of your signatures about me

... apk