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AMD's Crimson Radeon Driver For Linux Barely Changes Anything (phoronix.com)

Posted by timothy on from the surface-treatment dept.

An anonymous reader writes: AMD Windows customers were greeted this week to the new "Crimson" Radeon Software that brought many bug fixes, performance improvements, and brand new control panel. While AMD also released this Crimson driver for Linux, it really doesn't change much. The control panel is unchanged except for replacing "Catalyst" strings with "Radeon" and there's been no performance changes but just some isolated slowdowns. The Crimson Linux release notes only mention two changes: a fix for glxgears stuttering and mouse cursor corruption.

51 of 95 comments (clear)

  1. So... by CaptainJeff · · Score: 2

    So...the news here is that there is no news for Linux folks?

    1. Re:So... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Funny

      My god man .. they changed the strings from "Catalyst" to "Radeon".

      What more do you want?

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A new retro 8 bit christmas logo.

    3. Re:So... by SomeoneFromBelgium · · Score: 2

      I didn't follow this closely but is second rate support for Linux by AMD anything new??

    4. Re:So... by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      Desktop Linux is fine. You just have to buy a different brand of graphics card.

      "AMD drops the ball again"

      Not really news.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    5. Re:So... by ale2011 · · Score: 1

      What more do you want?

      Hardware neutrality.

    6. Re:So... by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      My god man .. they changed the strings from "Catalyst" to "Radeon".

      I know, it's a staggeringly complex rewrite. I can only wonder how many developer-months this took to complete.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    7. Re:So... by MyAlternateID · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I didn't follow this closely but is second rate support for Linux by AMD anything new??

      Since the late 90s I've always used nVidia for Linux systems* and I've never regretted that choice. I would prefer having nVidia open-source their own driver (nouveau has made progress but just isn't there yet) but this is not a big deal to me. I run a source-based distro (Gentoo) so I compile my own kernels anyway; it's no big deal to add "&& emerge --oneshot nvidia-drivers" at the end of that command line. That's the most I've ever had to do. Unfortunately some binary distros are more "purist" out of either ideology or fear of legal action so they make users jump through a few hoops to get proprietary drivers and codecs.

      The more I heard about first ATI and now AMD driver quality on Linux, the more convinced I am that I made the right choice. I hope AMD gets their shit together in this area because competition is a good thing.

      * That's on my desktop system which has a discrete card. My netbook with Intel graphics runs Linux Mint which "just works" (I believe that driver *is* open source, MIT licensed IIRC).

    8. Re:So... by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      Desktop Linux is fine with an Intel chipset. Any graphical chipset produced by AMD or nVidia have such a bad support in Linux that any Desktop is going to become terrible instantly: stuttering, slow, unstable.

      --
      Write boring code, not shiny code!
    9. Re:So... by vivian · · Score: 1

      I used to use nVidia cards until I had a bad run of luck with a few overheating and dying prematurely.
      I currently have an ATI and wish I'd stuck with Nvidia - monitors don't wake up from sleep properly - I have to toggle the video source buttons or turn them off and on again (generally only one or the other wakes - sometimes neither wake, very rarely both wake - it seems to be random), and there are still corruption issues with Chrome and some opengl apps- though this is better since the last (not current) update.
      Never had those problems with Nvidia. One thing it has going for it - it hasn't died yet, after a couple of years use in my hot lounge room - which can get a little warm during a Gold Coast (Aus) summer.

    10. Re: So... by binarylarry · · Score: 1

      By now it should be "AMD drops the ball like they always do." or "LOL AMD is building something!"

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    11. Re:So... by MyAlternateID · · Score: 2

      > I've always used nVidia for Linux systems

      So you have nothing to compare to. I see.

      Ah, another pseudointellectual trying to live the dream of all such small-minded people: the drive-by one-liner that presumes its own cleverness.

      The point, my dear AC, is: there is a good reason I don't personally have an AMD card for comparison. Maybe I would be interested in one, but not until such time as AMD acts like they want the business of Linux users.

      What I *can* compare my experience to is the Linux users who did choose AMD and all the problems they have, both in terms of malfunctions/bugs and lower performance. It's all right there in the summary and article if you aren't familiar with it or don't believe me. These are problems I don't have with my nVidia cards. That is a meaningful comparison when I'm shopping for video hardware and making a decision about which brand to purchase. That is, in fact, much more meaningful than any idiotic bickering you seem to have been expecting.

    12. Re:So... by MyAlternateID · · Score: 1

      Since Linux users make up 1% of the market share (I'm not sure the % for gamers, but could be lower), I'll doubt they'll lose sleep over it.

      The question is, if they get really rock-solid drivers for Linux desktops, would the effort carry over towards entering the market for graphics chips in other things that run Linux like Android tablets and phones? That might gain them a lot more than some fraction of 1%.

    13. Re:So... by sunderland56 · · Score: 1

      My god man .. they changed the strings from "Catalyst" to "Radeon".

      I'd love to be there when they do the year-end performance reviews in a few weeks..... "I personally updated 632 source files to conform with our new marketing paradigm".

    14. Re:So... by sunderland56 · · Score: 1

      Since Linux users make up 1% of the market share (I'm not sure the % for gamers, but could be lower), I'll doubt they'll lose sleep over it.

      Now that the Steam Box is on the market, there is a growing demand for high-end gaming graphics on Linux. That sound you hear is nVidia laughing all the way to the bank.

    15. Re:So... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Since Linux users make up 1% of the market share (I'm not sure the % for gamers, but could be lower), I'll doubt they'll lose sleep over it.

      The question is, if they get really rock-solid drivers for Linux desktops, would the effort carry over towards entering the market for graphics chips in other things that run Linux like Android tablets and phones?

      There is no market for graphics chips in those things, only SoCs which converge graphics with the CPU core. nVidia has an ARM SoC product like that, but AMD doesn't. AMD is sampling ARM server chips but has not even announced a mobile part. Meanwhile, nVidia is on what, their third or fourth Tegra? ATI actually used to make graphics chips for cellphones back when they did use separate GPUs; I used to find their cute little chips inside of Motorola phones, like V-series and RAZR. But now they don't, because they have nothing to offer.

      I've been a proponent of AMD for many years, but what we're seeing now is the middle of the end. (The beginning was when they revealed their new architecture and it was... meh.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    16. Re:So... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      You laugh ... but years ago at a different job, the marketing people decided to rename/re-brand a product.

      We literally had to stop everything, and build an entire release which had the name changed; which ended up having to finalize other things or roll them back to add later.

      Never underestimate how much marketing can screw up a dev schedule.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    17. Re:So... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      If you call having such bad Linux gaming performance that you would have to buy a card nearly twice the price to equal the same framerate as Windows " treating Linux users just fine"? Then I guess so, I personally wouldn't be too happy if I was a Linux user.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    18. Re:So... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Now that the Steam Box is on the market, there is a growing demand for high-end gaming graphics on Linux. That sound you hear is nVidia laughing all the way to the bank.

      They've already been there counting and laughing ever since the GTX 970/980 launched. They fell over laughing when they learned that the Fury would be a $500+ card only. Steam boxes would just be the cherry on top.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    19. Re:So... by spauldo · · Score: 1

      That has not been my experience.

      NVidia uses the same driver core for Windows and Linux, and it works fine (assuming you're using their driver, of course, and not the open source one).

      Intel has issues with OpenCL from what I hear, although I don't have any Intel graphics systems that run anything more than a console. Most users won't run into that, but if you need GPU processing, NVidia's better supported in Linux at the moment.

      I couldn't say about AMD, but I never hear anything good about their Linux support, so I haven't bought one of their cards in a decade and a half.

      --
      Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
    20. Re:So... by nnull · · Score: 1

      A different graphics card that is still mediocre at best. You know what I love about Nvidia cards? Watching a movie and VDPAU freezing my entire system that I have to reboot the whole computer. I feel like I'm on Windows 98.

    21. Re:So... by MyAlternateID · · Score: 1

      A different graphics card that is still mediocre at best. You know what I love about Nvidia cards? Watching a movie and VDPAU freezing my entire system that I have to reboot the whole computer. I feel like I'm on Windows 98.

      That must be really frustrating. This doesn't happen to me on Gentoo Linux with my nVidia card. What system are you using (OS and version)? Have you been able to narrow down the problem or diagnose exactly what's happening? Did you manage to catch any kernel panics or other error messages? I'm curious about this.

      You could also try disabling vdpau as a workaround. The computation resources needed to decode HD MP4 streams is relatively insignificant these days, unless you have really old hardware. That might be a viable option for you, though I understand it sucks not being able to use the full capabilities of what you've got.

    22. Re:So... by MyAlternateID · · Score: 1

      What I *can* compare my experience to is the Linux users who did choose AMD and all the problems they have, both in terms of malfunctions/bugs and lower performance.

      Or you can compare your experience to the Linux users who also chose nVidia and did run into a lot of problems.

      Perhaps nVidia wasn't the best choice for those users? Maybe these were PEBKAC errors? Possibly their distro doesn't offer the best/latest drivers because of difficulties redistributing proprietary binaries? Maybe nVidia really screwed up and I'm just a really lucky guy to have always had reliability and good performance from my nVidia hardware? Without investigating specific cases, I don't know, and neither do you.

      On the proprietary binary issue, Gentoo has a neat way of dealing with this. The Gentoo organization itself does not package and does not redistribute anything. The package manager (Portage) simply has instructions (ebuilds - text files) causing it to fetch the driver directly from nVidia's own servers, the same way you would if you were manually installing it by hand. It's just automated and kept track of so you can easily uninstall or upgrade it. That way the only thing you're downloading from Gentoo-controlled mirrors is a text file. It completely avoids any issues about redistributing closed-source software.

      With several binary distros I've used, getting the nVidia driver is not nearly as simple and often the available driver is several versions behind the latest release. Maybe that's a factor in some of those problems and maybe it isn't, but it's something to consider. Whether you're using the latest driver is definitely one of the first things to check from a diagnostic or tech-support perspective.

    23. Re:So... by MyAlternateID · · Score: 1

      Likewise I only ever bought nVidia GFX cards.

      As much as AMD is a company I want to love, I generally regret something about every purchase in the last 5 years (CPUs and occasionally a motherboard with integrated GFX chips from AMD). I want them to be successful because there should at least be a couple competent players in the market so that one doesn't bend everyone over completely. For linux I would only buy nVidia. Then in turn that means I only buy nVidia because I don't trust the AMD GFX cards at all.

      I know exactly what you mean. Years ago AMD was great if you were on the market for CPUs and wanted the best value for your dollar. They weren't the very fastest possible CPUs but they were good and came at a really reasonable price. I used AMD CPUs for years. I would love to see AMD succeed more than they have lately. I don't want the market to be utterly dominated by Intel. I want Intel to feel lots of competitive pressure. But in my opinion, AMD just keeps finding ways to metaphorically shoot themselves in the foot. It seems like they can do better than this.

      Back to graphics cards, I have no clue why AMD can't just do the same thing nVidia did: unify their drivers. Make the Linux driver use essentially the same codebase as the Windows driver, with the only significant differences being the parts that actually depend on the OS. This makes so much more sense than two different drivers maintained by two different teams and having one that's pretty good and another that seems half-assed and slapped together. I don't think they should do it because nVidia does it, but because it's a good idea. It would more effeciently utilize their developmental resources and it would fix the driver issues in Linux nearly "for free". I really want to know why they haven't done it this way.

    24. Re:So... by jopsen · · Score: 1

      Desktop Linux is fine. You just have to buy a different brand of graphics card.

      Intel and only intel... I just spend the morning try to get nvidia working... What a waste of time... And even if you get it working, it's buggy, crashes and freeze all the time...

      Buy laptops with intel and only intel graphics, no dual graphics card that's the worst...


      And no it's not good, I can't find a laptop with intel graphics and 16G of ram (well, there is Mac book, some sketchy startup, and recently carbon X1 but I can't get international keyboard on the X1 carbon).

    25. Re:So... by nnull · · Score: 1

      I'm on Arch, 4k resolution, using an Nvidia GTX980. Nvidia driver 352.63. I would try 358.16, but that driver is broken for me and causes my 4k monitor to start going nuts no matter what configuration settings I use.

      The freezing doesn't happen often, but only happens on badly encoded videos that triggers it. But when it does happen, boy is it annoying! I can login SSH and kill X, but even when I restart X, videos no longer work and instantly freeze the system again forcing me to reboot the whole system anyways.

    26. Re:So... by red+crab · · Score: 1

      Desktop Linux is fine. You just have to buy a different brand of graphics card.

      Wish I had some mod points today.

    27. Re:So... by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Well, it's not like there is some kind of magical tool that can recursively scan all the files within a directory, and change one string to another one wherever it is found.

      Hey, someone should totally code that up. I bet it would be very useful.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    28. Re:So... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      LOL riiiight, I'm sure they are just lining up when the reviews all say the same thing which is Steam machines are completely pointless as they give you NONE of the benefits of a console and NONE of the benefits of a Windows gaming PC. You are paying MORE money for WORSE hardware and without the entire point of consoles, the ease of use and exclusive titles. I can find review after review and they all say the same things, glitchy controller, bad UI, buggy as a pile of shit in August, its a completely pointless product that will only appeal to the Linux faithful...who won't want to have a fucking thing to do with Steam DRM ROFL!

      So sorry to burst your bubble but feel free to bookmark this post and come back in 24 months and see its truth, SteamOS will do about as much to spur Linux adoption as Ubuntu has, that is jack and squat. I mean for Pete's sake you no longer even have the "free as in beer" selling point as anybody can download the Windows 10 Insider release and use it for free.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    29. Re:So... by thejynxed · · Score: 1

      This is a known issue right now with many of their GPU families and affects all of the major OSes, but is especially prevalent on the latest version of OSX, Win8, Win8.1, Win10, and various kernel versions & distros of Linux.

      They are also having pretty big issues with video acceleration (which might be your issue with Chrome corruption) & subtitle rendering (either not showing subtitles at all, or rendering the entire screen black when the subtitle is supposed to display) during video playback.

      You are more than likely going to have to use one of the various driver tweaking programs out there from someplace like Guru3D to dig around in the driver settings and disable some "features" at that level.

      --
      @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
    30. Re:So... by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      I do believe you are falling prey to a "which was first" fallacy. The reason there are few Linux gamers is that there are few games for Linux. Fortunately that is slowly changing, with some help from Valve. Thank you Gabe!

  2. glxgears by JohnVanVliet · · Score: 1

    " a fix for glxgears stuttering "

    so they only FIXED a TEST !!!
    and one that is a YES / NO test
    glxgears should never be used as a speed test

    the FPS in glxgears is mostly meaningless

    --
    "I don't pitch OpenSUSE Linux to my friends, i let Microsoft do it for me
    1. Re:glxgears by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      " a fix for glxgears stuttering "

      so they only FIXED a TEST !!!
      and one that is a YES / NO test

      I know, it's like Christmas came early with this amazing code revision.

      It's such an awesome fix, it's almost incomprehensible how goshdarn difficult this must have been for them to implement.

      "Hey Bill, set $glxgears_stutter to "off" in the shit_module_stuff() function and mark it as complete in the fix list."

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  3. Report back in several releases ... by MacTO · · Score: 1

    AMD is prioritizing Windows with respect to these changes. That should not be surprising since the market is dominated by Windows. Now if these changes aren't reflected in their Linux drivers down the road, then yes there will be reason for concern.

    1. Re:Report back in several releases ... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      AMD is prioritizing Windows with respect to these changes. That should not be surprising since the market is dominated by Windows. Now if these changes aren't reflected in their Linux drivers down the road, then yes there will be reason for concern.

      Your argument only holds water if you're a Windows user. If you're a Linux user, this is cause for concern, because the Linux drivers are shit. They offer dramatically less performance than the Windows drivers. This is just further proof that AMD doesn't give a Fuck about Linux users. Frankly, they are very poor compared to intel about Linux support in general; hell, there's Still no good PM support in Linux for Mobile Athlon 64 Cool'n'Quiet, and the R690 chipset has never been properly supported. They don't contribute meaningful support for their hardware to the kernel, and they don't release the information fast enough for it to have timely support from the community. And that's why, although I've been using AMD processors since the K6, I don't use ATI video and why my next PC will probably have an Intel CPU. I'm tired of AMD's Linux lip service.

      ]

      TL;DR: AMD has always phoned in Linux support while making empty promises, and this is just more of the same.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Report back in several releases ... by MacTO · · Score: 1

      I use Linux on my desktop. It has an AMD card and uses AMD drivers. So I do have a vested interest in better performance and stability in their products.

      That being said, I am also a realist. AMD is a business, and they're there to make money. If they have to invest too much money into making Linux drivers, it hurts their profitability. If they have to divert too many resources away from Windows and towards Linux, hurts their profitability. I am not arguing that these are excuses for poor support, or for giving lip service to Linux, but Windows is clearly their priority.

      Suggesting that Linux graphics is a priority though, that's kinda absurd. The Linux desktop is a small fraction of the market.

    3. Re:Report back in several releases ... by MyAlternateID · · Score: 1

      I use Linux on my desktop. It has an AMD card and uses AMD drivers. So I do have a vested interest in better performance and stability in their products. That being said, I am also a realist. AMD is a business, and they're there to make money. If they have to invest too much money into making Linux drivers, it hurts their profitability.

      Yes but don't you have a vested interest in getting the best stability and performance you can get for your money, and in not rewarding a company that has decided you're not a priority? I want to like AMD. I want to have to really think about the next card I purchase because I want to have more than one really good option. That would be a healthy market. But I've stuck with nVidia and I've been very glad I did. That's been the single most effective way for me to avoid all of the problems I keep hearing about. But it shouldn't be that way.

      Like I explained in more detail in this post, I have no idea why AMD doesn't unify their drivers the way nVidia did. That someone else has done it proves that it's feasible, and it just makes so much sense. It would eliminate this entire problem.

  4. ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sounds like It's AMD's turn for a good old Linus Torvalds Blasting.

  5. I thought this was mostly by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    them getting rid of that horrible, horrible .Net interface.

    What I'm really wondering is what the bleep were they doing before. I read this:

    AMD shifted their development process for the Catalyst driver set, focusing on delivering feature updates in fewer, larger updates while interim driver releases would focus on bug fixes, performance improvements, and adding new cards.

    And my first thought was, how the hell else do you develop software? You put out one or two big releases a year and then fix and patch up in between. What the hell was AMD doing before Crimson? Where they completely re-writing their driver stack 3 or 4 times a year?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:I thought this was mostly by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      AMD shifted their development process for the Catalyst driver set, focusing on delivering feature updates in fewer, larger updates while interim driver releases would focus on bug fixes, performance improvements, and adding new cards.

      And my first thought was, how the hell else do you develop software? You put out one or two big releases a year and then fix and patch up in between. What the hell was AMD doing before Crimson? Where they completely re-writing their driver stack 3 or 4 times a year?

      Well, the way AMD has been doing it is that they make some minor changes occasionally, and once in a while they make the driver configuration GUI bigger and more bloated and increment the major version. Then you have to wait for someone (e.g. DnA) to hack the drivers up to make them not crash your system. At least, that's my experience of ATI graphics on Windows. I still have one machine with integrated Radeon, and it is by far the biggest PITA of everything I own. Making it work right on Windows is difficult and making it work properly on Linux is impossible. It was a netbook and the graphics were old so I thought "surely this will be supported by Linux so I can still use it when I'm tired of running windows on it" and then... fail. I get massive display trashing while using acceleration and it has actually gotten worse with subsequent versions since the first one I tried. Using the vga driver works but disabling renderaccel doesn't, so it must be some basic flaw in the way the hardware is initialized... Gee, I thought AMD gave away all the information needed to support this old hardware! And when it was brand new, fglrx already said that it was too old and thus unsupported. Thanks, AMD!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  6. I mean, I dunno... by cfalcon · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure guys, on a lot of boxes glxgears is the only work that the video card gets to do. Fixing that helps the needs of the many over the needs of the few...

  7. has major change for Linux by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    This driver builds against the 4.x Linux kernels, that's the big change. Why would Linux complain other than not open source?

  8. Stop by Tsolias · · Score: 1

    stop spreading Michael's bullshit. The driver has 0% gain in ANY platform, any means every platform. Stop giving hits to every *biased* article that guy makes.

  9. Just uninstalled it on Windows.... by gweihir · · Score: 1

    While it may bring performance enhancement, it also brings new bugs. The compass in Fallout 4, for example, becomes unusable.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:Just uninstalled it on Windows.... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      While it may bring performance enhancement, it also brings new bugs. The compass in Fallout 4, for example, becomes unusable.

      Leave it to AMD to fail to test their driver on the most important game of the year, and possibly the decade.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  10. What a surprise... by bobmajdakjr · · Score: 1

    Considering ATI/AMD has more or less never once produced a stable driver for video on any operating system. I don't want to read the article because I prefer to believe all the changes were purely just string replace Catalyst to Crimson and nothing more.

  11. Re:said the nvidia fanboy? by MyAlternateID · · Score: 1

    Reading reviews & comments on a couple other tech sites with similar article are calling B.S., there really is performance improvement even though certain promised features didn't appear. Hmmm, fanboys of other vendors?

    I don't know about you, but I tend to be disappointed when promises are broken (especially by people who had the resources to keep them) and I rightly tend to take a dim view of people who make promises they won't keep. This doesn't make someone a "fanboy", it makes them a person with good judgment.

  12. Re:Why Would they? by jopsen · · Score: 1

    Why would they bother with Linux at? Especially if they are forced to GPL their code.

    They are not... there is so many work arounds it's crazy...

    Anyways, they should do it to get more competition on a market they depend on.

  13. Re:Why Would they? by spauldo · · Score: 1

    They're not forced to GPL their code.

    Linus interprets the GPL in a way that allows for binary drivers (I'm sure RMS doesn't agree, but it's not RMS' software). AMD has a binary driver, which is what this article is about.

    NVidia has a proprietary driver as well, and it's basically the same code on both Windows and Linux (and FreeBSD, I believe). There is some GPL shim code that allows the kernel to talk to the binary blob, but the driver itself is closed source.

    Binary drivers aren't just for video cards. Note that due to the way the vast majority of WiFi chipsets work, Linux would have little to no driver support for WiFi without the GPL exception - the kernel has to load binary firmware into the radio. It's a legal thing; FCC regulations prohibit this firmware from being open source.

    As far as why they'd bother, I don't know how it is now with Intel processors having integrated video, but back in the day most servers came with ATI/AMD video chipsets. Some products do use a graphical system on the server. Linux might not have a huge following on the desktop, but servers are a different matter.

    --
    Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
  14. Went nVidia by kuzb · · Score: 1

    ...6 years ago, and haven't needed to look back since. For as closed source as they might be, at least stuff usually works like it should. AMD on the other hand has a long history of burning its users. I find intel processors more reliable too. Sure I'll pay a little more, but I'd rather not find the gotchas that always crop up with AMD hardware later.

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
  15. Re:said the nvidia fanboy? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    No, I'm only calling "fanboy" on those say no performance improvements; certainly it is bad AMD didn't deliver on promised features