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Italy Invests 150 Million Euros In Surveillance, With Emphasis On PS4 Chats (thestack.com)

An anonymous reader sends word that Italy will spend 150 million Euros on reforming information and security services. Part of this reform will be monitoring communication among users of the "chat" feature on PlayStation 4. The Stack reports: "Italian Minister of Justice Andrea Orlando has revealed that Italy is spending 150 million euros ($157mn) on new technology and staff to improve surveillance capabilities, and emphasized that the 'new instruments' (it's not clear whether this means new technology or new requisitions) will also target the Sony PlayStation network which fell under suspicion as a possible forum of organization for the Paris attacks (though no evidence was found to support this)."

62 comments

  1. Wow! by nospam007 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Listening to millions of 12 year old kids will be hard on the listeners, I hope they have no longer shifts than 2 hours.

    And to _understand_ what the hell they are saying is even harder than listening to Urdu or Suaheli conversations, because most of them have a lisp these days.

    1. Re: Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because their mothers have pierced tongues.

    2. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So here's a story about how I used to scoff at the idea of terrorists using gaming systems and why I now wonder if there's some truth to the argument. This isn't to necessarily say I support the intelligence service monitoring such chat networks unless they're targeted at identified threats and with a warrant (which this probably wont be because for some reason intelligence agencies now only believe in dragnets which I'm 100% against because they inherently net innocents in their data grabs) but that it may not wholly be without foundation.

      I have a friend, who has an awful habit of making friends with anyone and everyone, he'll invite people into a party on XBox Live and have them on his friends list within minutes. He doesn't care about how odd these people might turn out to be, he just friends them.

      So one day I jumped into his party to play a game of BF4 with him, and he has one of these random people in his party that he's befriended. There's the usual shit talk going on of "Yeah I killed the fucker" and the odd cry of "allahu ackbar" which I took to be a joke, but the longer I played the more I realised that this wasn't normal, this wasn't typical shit talk, I started noticing when he said things like "Yeah I killed the fucking yankee scum" and "Fucking pig russian died" that the tone wasn't right, this was someone exhibiting genuine anger and hatred, someone who was shit talking but doing so with a seriousness that was just off. I said to him "Alright dude, chill a bit, it's just a game", to which I got the response "I wish it wasn't and hopefully one day it wont be". He left the chat shortly after.

      I found this awkward because part of me wants to believe it was just some angry kid that needed to grow up, and similarly it completely challenged my previously held view that the security services were full of shit saying they needed to listen to online game chats and so on. Whilst I fully accept this kid may have just been an angry teen I can quite see how such a kid could've been truly radicalised if he indeed wasn't already. If one of us had been an actual jihadi then I don't see that it would've taken much talking him round to convince him to actually pursue something much more serious.

      So whilst as I say I'm completely against arbitrary monitoring of data, I do now genuinely believe there's probably some intelligence value in these game base communication networks. I still think intelligence services need to focus more on getting better at finding the needle, rather than simply building bigger haystacks of data of innocent people but if they're going to do it in a targeted manner with warrants (which yes, I know, they probably wont) then I think whilst it's easy to dismiss targeting of such networks as nonsense that that may in fact be a wrong view to take.

      Unless you're one of those people who believe that security services shouldn't monitor anything ever, even if it's a target where they've gathered enough evidence for a warrant effectively making them defunct, which I'm obviously not (I believe the security services should have some powers to spy, just only on people whom they've gathered enough prior evidence to justify to a judge that they need a warrant to gather further information and absolutely not the current status quo of everyone and anyone with no warrant needed), then I think, all jokes aside, there's a reasonable argument for them being able to spy on communications of individuals in these networks and as such investment in the ability to do so does kind of make some sense.

    3. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just more proof that we need to systematically get rid of all muslims just to be safe.

    4. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "yeah, maybe im mentally 12 years old, but i bet i can crush your mums pussy better than your dad!!!"

      you mean listening to stuff like that? its not that hard, for example you just did and you are not even on a videogame!

    5. Re:Wow! by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Or maybe this player was an operative hoping to connect with potential recruits.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    6. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just more proof that we need to systematically get rid of all muslims just to be safe.

      There are sides A and B, where some people in A tell to kill everyone in B and, as evident, where some people in B tell to kill everyone in A.

      Why would getting rid of A be a better option than getting rid of B, if we assume that you being part of B is not a good reason?

    7. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      <sarcasm>
      Given that fundamental terrorists have killed fewer americans than gun violence, we should systematically get rid of all guns... but wait, they say that guns don't kill people, people kill people. Sorry, we should systematically get rid of all people. Right?
      </sarcasm>

    8. Re:Wow! by gweihir · · Score: 1

      This is not about security. This is about giving money to people that do not deserve it (like "intelligence" agencies that have consistently messed up their job) and about giving the appearance of "doing something". In the end, it boils down to a stupid population.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    9. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Be careful what you wish for. Fast forward a few years and that teenage kid that offended you with his realistic trash talk will have his door smashed down, get his ass tasered and thrown in jail with or without a trial.
      On an unrelated note, anyone communicating over a corporate network and assuming that they're not being recorded and/or analyzed is naive to say the least.

    10. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [The above post clearly brought to you by ISIS]

    11. Re:Wow! by Shortguy881 · · Score: 1

      That would solve all our problems. Good thinking

      --
      Brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.
    12. Re:Wow! by mikael · · Score: 1

      Prisoners get console systems for good behavior. And they were using the chat feature to communicate with people on the outside world.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    13. Re:Wow! by gweihir · · Score: 1

      And here we have a nice specimen of "stupid population" at work. Note how it makes absolute statements that are completely irrational.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    14. Re:Wow! by bjwest · · Score: 1

      And the Westboro Baptist Church is proof we need to get rid of all Christians too, right? People like you are who we need to get rid of. You think exactly like the radical Muslims, just in the opposite direction.

      --

      --- Keep the choice with the user..
  2. selective law enforcement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is probably only about fishing for evidence for a later selective law enforcement.

    1. Re:selective law enforcement by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      This is just some politician who saw the "PS4" stories and decided he needed some new offices. The plain facts never entered into it.

      Film at 11.

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:selective law enforcement by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the We Must Be Seen To Be Doing $Something factor.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  3. Records of load OS wars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hint: Italy is enamoured with japanese pop culture. There are manga shops everywhere, with many fully translated titles that you'll never see in the USA, not even in untranslated re-prints. Anime is everywhere on TV. Italian police obviously chose Sony's PS4 over the Xbox to be able to consistently play the Final Fantasy saga and the Project Diva franchise, etc. Catgirls are cuter than the Corleonesi.

    1. Re:Records of load OS wars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anime is everywhere on TV.

      Maybe 10 years ago, not so much now.

  4. Well... by EmeraldBot · · Score: 1

    There may not be professional terrorists on the PS4 network, but I'd sure as heck be terrorized if I had to listen to it all day.

    --
    "Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
  5. Wrong war by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

    PS4? They're fighting last week's war over again. Stupid Italians.

    1. Re:Wrong war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article doesn't even talk about the PS4 in that context, it's pure clickbait, which you fell for, prick. Not that bothering with the inconvenient reality would stop you from spouting your xenophobic bile, Dog-Shit.

    2. Re:Wrong war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article doesn't even talk about the PS4 in that context, it's pure clickbait, which you fell for,
      [lots of unnecessary obscenities and adhominems retracted]

      AC: you know the article doesn't mention PS4.
      OP did not.
      Which of you do you think fell victim for the click-bait?

  6. worked well for hitler ibm bushbank madison ave. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nothing really new in centuries,, until now? we're waking up? chilling at best? truth~mercy=justice,,, spirit of creation prevails....

  7. One word of advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do not work in IT in Italy. Do not sell or support game consoles. Sooner or later a judge will accuse you of "aiding and abetting terrorism" and charge you with being accomplice to murder. It will take years and years to clear your name, if ever, and in the meantime you will stay in jail. It's not worth it. Besides, the Italian economy is about to tank. Those who can are fleeing. Those who can't, they stun themselves silly watching TV and hoping for... What?

    1. Re:One word of advice by Shortguy881 · · Score: 1

      Or a seismologist. There seems to be a growing anti-intellectual movement in Italy.

      --
      Brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.
  8. They Found Mario by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He was preparing to take some island at the Mediterranean Sea with his buddies. Why? Just because.

  9. That makes lots of sense. by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    Ok, it would have made lots of sense about 2 months ago. Now, it's just pointless. You're literally guarding the barn after the stampede.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:That makes lots of sense. by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      Why did it make lots of sense two months ago? Those "reports" of PS4 chat being used to coordinate the attacks have never been corroborated with a shred of evidence. For all we know, they used EVE Online to coordinate, or Teamspeak or a thousand other things.

  10. capture the hearts & minds of the children.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the bodys will follow? psychotic zionic perfect balance wmd on credit genocides are full service events? like organized religion? read the teepeeleaks etchings,, please.. thank you.. thank mom...

  11. Politics at work by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's how modern politics works, unfortunately.

    Ignore the facts. Pick the first easy thing that shows we are doing something.

    Ignore the real problem. Pick a random thing from the headlines and act on that.

    Ignore the known solutions. Make sure you are never seen continuously working on the same thing until it's done, our attention span is too short for that.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:Politics at work by gweihir · · Score: 1

      And on the site of the population: Be thankful that "something is being done" and too stupid to see that nothing effective is actually being done and it is all for sgiw and for entirely different reasons than stated.

      People in democracies have the government they collectively deserve. No I wish there was one country where "stupid" was not the norm of the population, but apparently, we non-stupid ones have to suffer with the rest.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:Politics at work by Tom · · Score: 1

      but apparently, we non-stupid ones have to suffer with the rest.

      Also, 90% of the population think that the other 90% of the population are the stupid ones.

      It's stupid to explain the corruption and incompetence of our governments with stupidity and desinterest of the population. I'm beginning to believe that is a meme intentionally spread to prevent that anything is done to fix the real problem.

      Which is: The people governing us are corrupt, self-absorbed arseholes with the mental capacity of 5 year olds but the trickery and manipulative abilities of experienced psychopaths.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    3. Re:Politics at work by mikael · · Score: 1

      Security theater. Whenever something happens, "security procedures will be reviewed and tightened.". They pick on the group that will offer the least resistance. To show they are getting tough on airline security, they might decide to do random strip searches on people, but women in hibab's will be exempt for cultural reasons, so they'll choose church priests and nuns instead.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    4. Re:Politics at work by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Which is: The people governing us are corrupt, self-absorbed arseholes with the mental capacity of 5 year olds but the trickery and manipulative abilities of experienced psychopaths.

      And the people voting for them are too stupid to see these characteristics? Or do you think smart people fall for those con-artists?

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    5. Re:Politics at work by Blue+Stone · · Score: 1

      Wow, are you some kind of whistleblower of David Cameron's plans to bomb Syria?

      That's a play-by-play account of what the Tories are doing.

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
  12. That's not what he said... by lastman71 · · Score: 1
    The quote about PS is this one:

    La rete - ha sottolineato Orlando - offre numerose opportunità di comunicazione, nelle indagini antiterrorismo è stato segnalato anche l'uso delle playstation, per questo ogni forma di messaggio va monitorata con nuovi strumenti.

    English translation:

    "The network - said Orlando - offers numerous opportunities for communication, in counter-terrorism investigations has also been reported the use of the Playstation, so any form of comunication should be monitored with new tools."

    So sorry, no emphasis on ps4 chats at all. It's just a clickbait title, so people can be outraged for nothing.

  13. I don't get the purpose by DrXym · · Score: 1

    Assuming PS4 were monitored by intelligence agencies, then the people they're monitoring would just move somewhere else. It's not like there is any shortage of websites, email systems, games, forums and chatrooms situated all over the world that they could pick from.

    1. Re:I don't get the purpose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ISIS use twitter. They add keywords to trending hashtags in their own country. They're not ignorant sand-monkeys with no clue how to hide in plain sight.

    2. Re:I don't get the purpose by ma++i+ude · · Score: 1

      Precisely. You know what's cheaper than monitoring PS4 conversations but just as effective? Pretending that you monitor PS4 conversations.

      --
      You can't shut us down! The Internet is about the free exchange and sale of other people's ideas!
    3. Re:I don't get the purpose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah PS4 chat is for drug deals, not terrorism.

    4. Re:I don't get the purpose by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Except that would be self defeating too. It's better to not disclose what you're monitoring, or at least to plant comments in jihadist forums that mixes some good advice with some "safe" sites that you happen to be monitoring and let them at it. If you can monitor their chatter then you can infer what they're up to. If you scare them off then who knows what they're talking about or planning.

    5. Re:I don't get the purpose by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The end result is social control.
      The problem with websites, email systems, forums and chatrooms is they all can be found, have feeder sites to them or are listed, get mentioned in public over web 2.0, could be intelligence service fronts and understood by any nation, group, NGO or contractor on the hunt. Or the admin/s are turned or have been replaced or have been befriended.
      In theory US/UK "collect it all" would have got very packet by default for any 'word' readable in any language on any internet facing network, OS, system, brand.
      Italy is now been seen spending a lot of cash in public to internally duplicate packet collection that NATO has been doing for decades over different telco networks and systems.
      Italy has a strong history with expert decoding. After 1945 US/UK TICOM got Italy working on French diplomatic traffic and soon had all French diplomatic traffic decoded in real time and did other work on advanced emerging "Taper" related projects.
      New money is on the table, why not spend it on bureaucratic growth, private sector contractors can help too. Think of the over time, bids for new optical splitters, vast new databases, advanced linguistics software contracts, 24/7 translation teams for languages and slang, "renting' ongoing private sector support for all the new teams, upgrades. Lawyers, courts, ip to a physical address support, new interfaces with other advanced nations, travel for top experts and government officials over the years, advancement and rank.... vans, undercover teams, 5-10 gov officials/contractors for every individual of interest found
      All the sock puppet accounts to then start a conversation and build a rapport with correct slang, dialects and regional inflections..

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    6. Re:I don't get the purpose by jonwil · · Score: 1

      With all the power that IS seems to have these days (and the fact that they understand technology and the internet far better than any terrorist group that came before them), I am surprised they haven't tried to find some programmers and get them to build some custom encrypted communications solutions. Something using end-to-end encryption and no ties to any western entity that could be subject to a national security letter or something.

      Make it look legitimate/hidden so people (cops, customs people etc) who dont know what it is just think its harmless and wont go looking too deep into it.

      No I dont like IS and what they are doing to this planet, I am simply pondering why they haven't simply avoided any communications methods that could potentially be spied on by the intelligence agencies and rolled their own.

      Or am I overestimating the technological skills of this bunch of terrorist thugs?

  14. not enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's not enough. They should invest a billion euros into surveillance. To keep us all safe from ISIS.

  15. They will implement it by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    They will implement it ... just after the PS5 comes out

  16. Corruption or Stupidity. Pick one. by geekmux · · Score: 2

    "...will also target the Sony PlayStation network which fell under suspicion as a possible forum of organization for the Paris attacks (though no evidence was found to support this)."

    Since this has been common knowledge almost within hours of the attacks, please choose whether it is corruption or pure fucking stupidity that allowed their government to continue with a bill to spend hundreds of millions for monitoring, which will include PS4 networks.

    Corruption or Stupidity. Pick one, because they're the only options that fit here. It really is, and I grow tired of asking why these things occur in the blatant absence of evidence. Time to call a pig a pig no matter what color of lipstick they're slapping on.

  17. Sorry Italy by Dunbal · · Score: 1

    Everyone knows that all terrorists play Xbox.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:Sorry Italy by Shortguy881 · · Score: 1

      Don't you mean Wii U? That's precisely why Wii Fit was made.

      --
      Brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.
  18. modem surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    modem is the new secret weapon!

  19. Re:Corruption or Stupidity. Pick one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Corruption or Stupidity. Pick one, because they're the only options that fit here.

    You're assuming they aren't lying on the headline. Look again:

    “The net offers numerous opportunities for communication. Antiterrorism investigations have highlighted the use of the [PlayStation]. Because of this every method of communication will be monitored with new instruments.

    PS4 is the excuse. NSA-style monitoring is the objective.

  20. PS4 surveillance or how to videogame at work by GuB-42 · · Score: 2

    Employees : We discovered that terrorists use PS4s to plan attacks and we have no mean of monitoring them.
    Boss : But, it is just like regular chat, and we have packet sniffers, and...
    Employees : No, no, no. They use strong encryption that only real PS4s can decode. We need PS4s in every office.
    Boss : Ok, but your proposal is too cheap, so every one of you will get a PS4.

    ... later...

    Boss : What are you doing, are you playing (looks at the box besides the console) Call of Duty ?
    Employee : Yes, hum.. no, I am conducting surveillance. Just look at the chat, they are talking about bombs and guns, I think we are up do something.
    Boss : Great work, is there anything you need.
    Employee : Yes, if possible, I would like a PS4 for home, so I can, you know, get more efficient tracking terrorists.
    Boss : Of course, it is a pleasure to see such devotion to our homeland security. I'll make sure you'll get that promotion.

  21. Jeepers! by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 1

    Do you have a Geiger counter?

    1. Re:Jeepers! by rwise2112 · · Score: 1

      Do you have a Geiger counter?

      Mine is in the shop.

      --

      "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
    2. Re:Jeepers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's broken. It's was making a strange clicking noise and the needle was all over the place, so I sent it back to the manufacturer under warranty.

  22. Neither by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They demonized the PS chat network, now they can attack it for "potentially" harbouring terrorists. It matters not at all to the security agencies that the original allegation had no more substance than a pair of crotchless panties. These days, anyone from a security agency can cry wolf and be wrong 100,000 times. As long as there is a "possible" link to terrorism, they get a free pass on facts.

    This is all about expanding the security apparatus and restricting citizen's privacy rights. Which means more money, more staff and more abilities for the security apparatus.

    I don't deny that the additional resources might prevent a terrorist attack. Someday, eventually. No one yet has proven that they do however. Years ago the security agencies had to actually work for a living and demonstrate reasons for their activities. Now they just repeat "terror" endlessly and everyone accepts the results.

  23. commentsubjectsaredumb by Falos · · Score: 1

    > Italy is spending 150 million euros
    ...on dragnet'ing a katamari blob scrutinized by automation /at best/ with a negligible chance of detecting activity that can pick any number of alternative, unmonitored channels for communication*.

    A bullshit motive means ulterior motive. Naive optimists hope for (A) incompetence, theater, tax dollars wasted; expect (B) malice, blanket surveillance, mass scooping, terrorism is an afterthought if not omitted entirely.

    not even including srs bsns super-secure ones for the real masterminds who dgaf if the fall guy tier use skypesnapper.

  24. Re:Corruption or Stupidity. Pick one. by slazzy · · Score: 1

    Great excuse for government officials to buy 50 million worth of PS4s and games and spend the other 100 Million man-hours playing video games.

    --
    Website Just Down For Me? Find out
  25. Notice this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PS4 spying is a story.

    XBOX spying is a given.

  26. Great news! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    New job openings for Italian pedophiles.