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Google To Drop Chrome Support For 32-bit Linux

prisoninmate writes: Google announces that its Google Chrome web browser will no longer be available for 32-bit hardware platforms. Additionally, Google Chrome will no longer be supported on the Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) and Debian GNU/Linux 7 (Wheezy) operating systems. Users are urged to update to the Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr) release and Debian GNU/Linux 8 (Jessie) respectively. Google will continue to support the 32-bit build configurations for those who want to build the open-source Chromium web browser on various Linux kernel-based operating systems. Reader SmartAboutThings writes, on a similar note, that: Microsoft is tolling the death knell for Internet Explorer with an announcement that it will end support for all older versions next year. Microsoft says that all versions older than the latest one will no longer be supported starting Jan. 12, 2016. After this date, Microsoft will no longer provide security updates or technical support for older Internet Explorer versions. Furthermore, Internet Explorer 11 will be the last version of Internet Explorer as Microsoft shifts its focus on its next web browser, Microsoft Edge.

175 comments

  1. The Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The source tarball will no longer support 32 bit Linux? Or are they pulling closed source hijinx?

    1. Re:The Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      It means that they just won't bother to compile a 32-bit build of the closed-source Chrome.

    2. Re:The Source? by selectspec · · Score: 4, Informative

      The chromium open source tar ball will continue to be updated and support 32-bit x86 and ARM for at least the next 5 years.

      The proprietary Chrome binaries which include features listed below will not longer be updated after March 2016:

      - AAC, H.264, and MP3 Support
      - Adobe Flash (PPAPI)
      - Google Update

      https://groups.google.com/a/ch...

      --

      Someone you trust is one of us.

    3. Re:The Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The most important feature of the closed-source Chrome is it's the way to stream Netflix on Linux.
      That's the only reason I've ever used Chrome on any desktop computer.

    4. Re: The Source? by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      There is no source tarball available. Chrome is a non-free program.

    5. Re: The Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chromium is almost the same thing and it is open source.

    6. Re:The Source? by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      Wow. I had no idea.

      Netflix has had many years to remove their dependency on proprietary player software so that it would no longer require closed players. As some of the stuff transitions from not-user-maintainable to completely-unmaintained, that'll just be another reason for people to remember that media requires standards. It's ridiculous that in 2015 someone is selling a video service where you can't just use whatever player you want to.

      "Cord cutting" right now is something Netflix can cheer, but as expectations continue to rise and unless Netflix modernizes, all the reasons that people upgraded to Netflix, may become reasons that they upgrade from Netflix. And right here, you're looking at one of them. Netflix smells pretty "cabley" here.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    7. Re:The Source? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Dropping support doesn't mean it won't work. It just means if it doesn't Google will not help you to try to get it to work.

      If you want to compile it, and adjust the dependencies so it works with 32bit. More power to you. Google just won't bend over backwards to make sure all the plugins work with you or crash after you fill up a bit too much ram.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    8. Re: The Source? by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      If it is almost the same then Google should cease this Chrome/Chromium dance and just make one browser and let it be free software.

    9. Re: The Source? by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      You can't compile Chrome. The source code is locked up. You can compile Chromium, which is a free program that Chrome is based on. But Chromium is not affected, only the non-free program distributed by Google is.

    10. Re:The Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure Netflix would be happy to deliver their media over a standard protocol and codec, but their content providers are going to demand DRM in that standard. How much wailing and gnashing of teeth occurs when people talk about including DRM in a web standard?

    11. Re: The Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The DRM and the spyware can't be made free software.

    12. Re:The Source? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Oh, so it's just a security update. Why don't they say so?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    13. Re: The Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What spyware?

    14. Re:The Source? by i_ate_god · · Score: 2

      People keep blaming Netflix for decisions enforced upon them by production studios.

      --
      I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
    15. Re: The Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Chrome

    16. Re: The Source? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      That doesn't change his statement. Google was wrong in capitulating to Hollywood and they should have never done it.

      --
      Good-bye
    17. Re:The Source? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Oh, no. I blame everyone involved.

      from the complacent masses to the corporate shills and everyone in between, including the actors, the writers, the media manufacturers, the game console and television makers, the people who designed HDCP, the people who make sure that I get to suffer through the threats before every film i PAID for, while the actual people who are copying the stuff quite happily remove same... the list is quite well populated.

      I benefit directly from media sales, as I own a very successful business in the publishing industry, and I am 100% totally against "copy-protection" of all kinds. But like politics, the masses just won't stand up for themselves, they don't even understand why they should... and so this is what we all end up with. Shite.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    18. Re:The Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Netflix has produced a number of their own shows, yet they use the same restrictions.

    19. Re:The Source? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Clear demonstration of why Community > Proprietary.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    20. Re:The Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Adobe makes good on their deal with Mozilla, then we'll have optional HTML5 DRM for Firefox as well "soon" in Linux. But we all know Adobe will drag that out as long as possible because Google pays them to work on their proprietary "open" version of Flash for Chrome-based browsers, and then two years later they finally implement features for other browsers now.

    21. Re:The Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as Netflix can't get their heads out of their ass, and cba to stream to chrome in 1080p (atm only 480p and sometimes with luck some shows or movies in 720p), I couldn't care less, since I have a PS4 now.

  2. Google drops ${product} by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yesterday, Google Announced that they will drop support for their product ${product}. Google will continue to support the product for the next few months[, offering users the opportunity to download a tar file of their data]. Google said they chose this step because they wanted to "do the right thing", and "continue to enhance our products for all of our users".

    The users of ${product} weren't happy at all about the announcement. Twitter user &{name} writes, ${random_user_quote here}. On other internet platforms, the responses were similar.

    1. Re:Google drops ${product} by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've created a monster. The last time someone invented a template to reply to a common news, we were for years reading variations of the same post about ineffective ways to fight spam.

    2. Re:Google drops ${product} by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reply to $article on behalf of $company that wanted page-views to generate ad revenue. Reply to other replies if necessary, unless reply was generated by self.

    3. Re:Google drops ${product} by olau · · Score: 2

      Yes, indeed. But we liked it, didn't we? :)

  3. Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I run 32 bit versions of Linux on older hardware that doesn't require 64 bit, will other browser developers be following in Google's foot steps? I can always switch from Chrome to Firefox or another browser but is indication that 32 bit Linux support is going away in general?

    1. Re:Will others follow suit? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      Is Firefox even 64 bit now? They still don't support multi process or threading very well.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    2. Re:Will others follow suit? by armanox · · Score: 1

      Firefox is 64 bit on Linux and OS X to my understanding. The Windows and Solaris builds are still 32 bit.

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    3. Re:Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I...but is [this] indication that 32 bit Linux support is going away in general?

      It seems everyone including smartphone manufacturers are moving to 64-bit hardware despite the fact these devices rarely have more than 4 GB RAM. Does Angry Birds and Facebook require 64-bit operating systems?

    4. Re:Will others follow suit? by armanox · · Score: 1

      I hope not. There are quite a few places that I'm running 32 bit operating systems (my MacBook Pro, running OS X 10.6, for example) that will not be migrated to 64 bit.

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    5. Re:Will others follow suit? by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't this be the other way around? The default should be x86-64 unless there is a specific software/driver/whatever that doesn't work properly in that configuration (in which case, hopefully you don't have to browse the web for it).

      I mean, the last time anyone sold processors that didn't support was the Pentium 4, sometime a decade ago. Given Moore's law (and the rising price of electricity), you could replace that with a RaspberryPI of equivalent horsepower that will probably pay itself back in power in under a year (the P4 was a power hog ...).

      And if you do have some custom setup that doesn't run on 64bit, I'm really sorry. Legacy support sucks (I know firsthand), but don't expect the rest of the world to keep updating their shit just because you have to.

    6. Re:Will others follow suit? by MacTO · · Score: 1

      If so, it will only be relevant for compiled binaries from the vendor. The source is still available for Chromium (and a lot of other browsers, so third parties are still welcome to compile for 32-bit targets. If there is some breakage due to developers assuming a 64-bit target, people can still patch the source. I suspect that the programs will simply become too heavy for 32-bit systems before all support (first or third party) is dropped for 32-bit systems.

      Also keep in mind that there are 32-bit platforms other than x86 Linux.

    7. Re:Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PaleMoon comes in 32-bit and 64-bit flavors, and you can always just download the source and build it yourself.

    8. Re:Will others follow suit? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah totally doable for non comp.sci majors.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    9. Re:Will others follow suit? by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 1

      The problem is that while the chip may support 64-bit, the drivers don't. I have two laptops running Windows 7 32-bit because one of them has a Core Duo, which doesn't support 64-bit, and the other doesn't have 64-bit drivers for audio and never will because SigmaTel was bought by Apple.

      I really feel that Google is not resource-limited on these things and there is some other motivation. The way it is working for me is that I am migrating away from Google completely for everything because I can't rely on them for anything. Maybe if they stepped out into the real world where the average person doesn't make $200,000 per year playing ping pong all day, they would understand that we're not all out there replacing all of our gadgets every six months.

      --

      I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

    10. Re:Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The OSS browsers included in the distributions (Chromium, Iceweasel, etc) I would expect to stay available in 32 bit for quite a while.
      But for security reasons (ASLR if nothing else is fairly thoroughly broken on 32 bit systems), running a 32 bit browser is a horrible idea if you have the choice.

    11. Re:Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see much reason why someone who doesn't know how to build the source should care about having a 64-bit build.

    12. Re:Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As a software developer who has worked for companies supporting multiple active platforms both 32-bit and 64-bit, 64 bit isn't the point. It's the massive burden of maintaining multiple build streams, tool-chains, test servers, release images, etc. for a dying platform (32-bit). 32-bit needs to die so this waste is eliminated.

      I guess if you are a software shop that doesn't develop a single application that can benefit from 64-bit, it may make sense to stick to 32, but is that really even a possibility? Memory use is -not- the only consideration. 64-bit CPU modes often bring along larger register files and advanced instructions, which alone is a good reason many applications may want to become 64-bit vs 32.

    13. Re:Will others follow suit? by BiggoronSword · · Score: 1

      I mean, the last time anyone sold processors that didn't support was the Pentium 4, sometime a decade ago.

      This is not true. Some Intel Atom processors do not support 64-bit, which were produced in 2008. And I still use it today.

      --
      interactive hologram, or it didn't happen.
    14. Re:Will others follow suit? by tepples · · Score: 1

      The default should be x86-64 unless there is a specific software/driver/whatever that doesn't work properly in that configuration

      A 64-bit ABI makes pointers twice as big, which can increase memory consumption on devices with less than 4 GB of RAM and increase data cache capacity misses on any machine. The impact of this depends on the extent to which a program uses pointer-heavy data structures.

      I mean, the last time anyone sold processors that didn't support was the Pentium 4, sometime a decade ago. Given Moore's law (and the rising price of electricity), you could replace that with a RaspberryPI of equivalent horsepower that will probably pay itself back in power in under a year

      Not after you include the power cost of emulating x86 on ARM for applications to which you lack source code, such as applications running in Wine.

    15. Re:Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How old are those laptops? Of all the computers in my home, the only one stuck on 32-bit is more than 6 years old. Yes it works, but nobody owes me a continuation of 32-bit software to keep that old fossil running. You joke about 'replacing gadgets every six months' but 32-bit is years out of date at this point. If somebody bought a Linux, Windows or Mac system incapable of 64-bit support in the past 6 months I'd say they were an idiot.

    16. Re:Will others follow suit? by tepples · · Score: 1

      The source is still available for Chromium

      But not for Flash Player, which vector animation sites such as Newgrounds still require. And not for the digital restrictions management components, which streaming sites that lawfully carry major studio films still require. And not for the patented audiovisual decoders (H.264, AAC, and MP3), which Safari-compatible sites hosting audio or video still require because Apple, as a member of the MPEG-LA carte^W patent pool, has made a business decision not to offer hooks for third parties to support WebM in its browser.

    17. Re:Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PaleMoon has an installation script. You don't have to know anything about "source" or "building anything" to install it.

    18. Re:Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's like saying "I don't see much reason why a person who doesn't know how to build an engine should care about having hi-octane gasoline in their car designed to run on hi-octane gasoline."

    19. Re:Will others follow suit? by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 1

      Yes, I did notice you conveniently ignored the problem of not having 64-bit drivers.

      I have a work computer that has such pathetic computing requirements that spending even one penny on something new is one penny too much, and you have not only have no sense of humor, you don't understand relative positions and probably consider the phrase "let them eat cake" as a legitimate position of generosity.

      I cannot know for sure why Google creates and manages the Chrome browser, but if their intent is to encourage me to use Google products, the strategy is failing, which leads me to believe that they get backdoor deals with hardware makers, sense they are the ones to most likely profit, and, er, maybe even offer up A.C. comments on Slashdot.

      --

      I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

    20. Re:Will others follow suit? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Oh yeah totally doable for non comp.sci majors.

      It depends on the quality of the build scripts really.

      It's like the software quality of ANYTHING. Either the developers decided to put in the time to make the software robust and reasonably easy to use or they didn't.

      The fact that you might have to type some bog standard commands that haven't changed in 20 years is really not the issue.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    21. Re:Will others follow suit? by kriston · · Score: 1

      I'll just offer this fully-supported, Windows 64-bit build here:

      https://download.mozilla.org/?...

      --

      Kriston

    22. Re:Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's like saying "I don't see much reason why a person who doesn't know how to fill a gas tank should care about having hi-octane gasoline in their car designed to be compatible with a range of fuels including hi-octane gasoline."

      TFTFY

    23. Re:Will others follow suit? by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      And the other side of the coin is that if the 32-bit instruction set is perfectly adequate for your task, 64-bit only gives you a moderate increase in storage and memory footprint with no benefits.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    24. Re:Will others follow suit? by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      And if you do have some custom setup that doesn't run on 64bit, I'm really sorry. Legacy support sucks (I know firsthand), but don't expect the rest of the world to keep updating their shit just because you have to.

      It's not good for the environment that people keep binning stuff that is more than adequate for their current needs. If people's main use of computers is browsing the internet and watching cat videos, a ten-year-old computer is more than adequate for the task. Legacy support in browsers is a matter of security, and IT security requires a lot of "herd immunity" -- people running unsecured browsers become an attack vector for DDoS attacks etc. Supporting a legacy browser environment is therefore a very sensible cause, and as Google have nothing to gain from feeding the constant-upgrade-merry-go-round, they should be the people most likely to realise this.

      Unless they're just wanting to push casual browsers to Chromebooks...

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    25. Re:Will others follow suit? by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      One of these little fellows would probably do the job.

    26. Re: Will others follow suit? by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      They created it because default search on a browser was worth lots of money.

      They were paying mozilla, by taking part of mozilla's browser share, they save millions.

      Also, they get to focus on the type of speed that they are programming websites to require.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    27. Re:Will others follow suit? by Junta · · Score: 1

      Generally speaking, a 64 bit build of a browser is actually pretty silly in and of itself. If your browser session needs more than 4GB of ram, there's a problem.

      It's not like you would opt out of the WoW64 layer needed to run 32 bit applications in a Windows 64 environment.

      In the Linux ecosystem, however, the 32 bit layer is often skipped in new installs, since the proprietary ecosystem is smaller and less demanding of very long support cycle without rebuild.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    28. Re:Will others follow suit? by leiz · · Score: 1

      Umm, Chrome for Mac has been 64-bit only for a year now. http://www.computerworld.com/a...

    29. Re:Will others follow suit? by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      As a software developer who has worked for companies supporting multiple active platforms both 32-bit and 64-bit, 64 bit isn't the point. It's the massive burden of maintaining multiple build streams, tool-chains, test servers, release images, etc. for a dying platform (32-bit). 32-bit needs to die so this waste is eliminated.

      This is why many build for 32-bit and ignore 64-bit unless they have a good reason because everyone can run 32. For example a "hello world" application does not benefit anyone from 64-bit version while a 64-bit version of Google earth would be amazing if it ever existed.

      64-bit CPU modes often bring along larger register files and advanced instructions, which alone is a good reason many applications may want to become 64-bit vs 32.

      No it is just memory people will blab about more registers and this and that but no tangible difference exists in real world use.

    30. Re:Will others follow suit? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      will not = can not?

      Apple orphaned a large swatch of macbook pros; 10.6.8 is the last build that will install on them.

      I own one.
      .

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    31. Re:Will others follow suit? by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

      I have a work computer that has such pathetic computing requirements that spending even one penny on something new is one penny too much

      Except that you are paying lots of pennies to power that old inefficient Pentium IV. And if you counted the difference in pennies from powering that versus buying a new efficient one every 5-10 years, you'd come up with lots of extra pennies.

    32. Re:Will others follow suit? by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 1
      --

      I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

    33. Re:Will others follow suit? by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

      It's not good for the environment that people keep binning stuff that is more than adequate for their current needs. If people's main use of computers is browsing the internet and watching cat videos, a ten-year-old computer is more than adequate for the task.

      A ten year old computer probably uses about 10x the power of a modern machine, even a cheap one. So it might be adequate for the task, but if a newer one can do for 10W what it does for 300W, then that's a savings of more than a nickel an hour or ~$100/year.

    34. Re: Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you care about security, then you require 64 bit. ASLR pretty much doesn't work in a 32 bit address space.

    35. Re:Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what? Seriously, of what exact relevance is it that 64-bit may bring modest or even no benefits to the table?

      64-bit systems have been coming for years. The hardware is in place, the OS support is in place, the toolsets are in place, the compilers are in place. Eventually the computing ecosystem is going to mandate 64-bit. However optional 64-bit support has been available for years now. And most OS environments I've seen have the ability to run 32-bit binaries in a 64-bit address space anyways.

      I used to work in the AS/400 world. The vendor announced their transition plans and then implemented those plans. There was dual 48-bit and 64-bit support for about 3 years. Then the vendor stopped supporting the old stuff. If you still insisted on running the old stuff, you ran unsupported or obtained 3rd party support. The 32 to 64-bit transition in the x86 world has been glacial by comparison. It's been a dozen years! Even more if you count Itanium.

      Most of the time the complaints come from people who run applications that are getting little to no updates or support and the transition is going to leave those systems behind. It may be inconvenient I grant you. However if those apps aren't important enough to update... then it's time to leave them. You can keep going with abandonware so long as nothing environmental kills the app. Once the world changes... it's time for you to change too.

    36. Re:Will others follow suit? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I've never done Firefox in particular but I suspect it's not much more difficult than reading the readme (catchy title, I know) and following the directions. It's probably something akin to:

      sudo configure
      sudo make
      sudo make install

      And maybe, just maybe, tracking down a dependency but chances are good someone will have already compiled and packaged it for you or you can just grab a package from a repo that someone's willing to maintain.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    37. Re:Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what? Seriously, of what exact relevance is it that 64-bit may bring modest or even no benefits to the table?

      64-bit systems have been coming for years. The hardware is in place,

      Stop there. Some people have old hardware that is 32-bit. Should they bin it just because "the world has moved on"? Is binning functioning electronics what you consider progress?

      However if those apps aren't important enough to update... then it's time to leave them. You can keep going with abandonware so long as nothing environmental kills the app.

      Browsers are important and should be updated. I really don't understand Google's decision here.

    38. Re:Will others follow suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's just for granny checking emails twice a week, that's certainly not $100 a year.

  4. One small step by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is great. Now perhaps they could make a 64-bit Linux version of Google Earth available? Pretty please?

  5. Re:Politically incorrect fact by prefec2 · · Score: 4, Informative

    And? Is Chrome supported on Win10 for 32 bit? Ah nope, as the summary states, Google stops delivering 32bit versions of Chrome for all OS. On a side note: Linuxes come with Firefox which works perfectly on 32bit hardware.

  6. Android is also 32-bit Linux by LubosD · · Score: 1

    So are they killing the Android builds of Chrome as well, or does the summary suck as usual?

    1. Re:Android is also 32-bit Linux by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they should have said "GNU + Linux" instead of "Linux".

    2. Re:Android is also 32-bit Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Android runs on ARM. ARM have been 64 bit since 2011. I don't suppose there are many tablets and phones out there running today's OS on HW that's approaching 5 years old. That's like eleventy billion years in cat/tech years.

    3. Re:Android is also 32-bit Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Android runs on ARM. ARM have been 64 bit since 2011. I don't suppose there are many tablets and phones out there running today's OS on HW that's approaching 5 years old.

      It may well be that ARM developed their first 64bit version 4 years ago. That does not mean that all production switched overnight, nor that all software was built for that new version. While it is possible to buy a 64bit CPU phone today the vast majority of phones in production are not. To take full advantage of 64bit Android Lollipop is required and there are few of those.

      In fact the majority of ARM chips are not in phones or tablets at all, but are in embedded devices where even 32bit is overkill.

    4. Re:Android is also 32-bit Linux by jrumney · · Score: 1

      If you go to the source email thread, it is only x86 builds that are being dropped. 32 bit Android and ChromeOS ARM platforms will still be supported.

  7. Advertising advertising advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Of course. A company is in the business where they get their revenues. Airlines get their revenues from flying people around. Airlines do in fact have excellent tech for figuring out demand, routes, and other things. As a matter of fact, American Airlines and its SABRE system made data processing (IT to you kids) history in the 70s.

    See, Google is an advertising company. People are under the erroneous impression that they are a tech company. Any and all tech they develop is to enhance their business - advertising. They may develop tech that initially doesn't have any advertising purpose, but eventually that is what will happen. And by advertising purpose, I mean either showing ads or collecting consumer data.

    Facebook and Yahoo! are Google's biggest competitors and they are not tech companies either.

    Anyway, calling Google a tech company is just as ridiculous as calling Amazon a tech company or Delta Airlines or JP Morgan Chase.

    1. Re:Advertising advertising advertising by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Amazon is ABSOLUTELY a tech company. What the fuck do you consider EC2 to be? NO ONE has a cloud as big or as powerful as Amazon...

      --
      Good-bye
    2. Re:Advertising advertising advertising by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      As everyone knows, all actual programming work at Google is done by interns. Now that Facebook has better snacks, Google's intern supply is drying up and that explains why some products must be thrown out.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re:Advertising advertising advertising by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Amazon most accurately defined as a logistics company and as such handling digital services is an extension of that logistics ability. Google is not a marketing company as they do not market products, they provide services for the marketing of those products. So they are a publishing agency and they basically privately publish your private information, to various government and private organisation (making it easy for governments to peep means they get free ride to invade your privacy) and like any other publishers they publish ads and content to draw those people to those ads. The privacy invasiveness is new and should in all honestly be illegal.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  8. Re:Politically incorrect fact by armanox · · Score: 0

    Not really. I've tried Windows 10 on Pentium M era hardware, and it is horrible. Lack of driver support, and Windows Defender eats up most of the CPU time. Not saying that Linux runs all fine and dandy on these systems, but it runs better then Windows 10 (for that matter, Windows 7 and Windows 8 run better then Windows 10 does on older hardware).

    --
    I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
  9. So no more 32-bit Android either? by the_humeister · · Score: 1

    That's too bad since most Android phones are 32-bit right now.

    1. Re:So no more 32-bit Android either? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      They're talking about platforms that get updates.

    2. Re:So no more 32-bit Android either? by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      Hah! :)

  10. Update my Vista machines by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    Looks like it's about time to upgrade my Vista machines.

  11. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And? Is Chrome supported on Win10 for 32 bit?

    Yes, it is.

    On a side note: Linuxes come with Firefox which works perfectly on 32bit hardware.

    On a side note: Windows 10 comes with Edge which works perfectly on 32-bit hardware. Of course, Firefox and Chrome work great as well. As you can easily see, Windows is all about choice.

  12. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of installing Windows 10 on it, you can recycle the computer. At least that way it can still be useful. Windows 10 is shit even before concerns about the pervasive spying. Apparently Microsoft said "ah fuck it" to any usability and visual design considerations. They didn't even fix the hotchpotch of cluttered old interfaces and dumbed down new interfaces that they introduced with Windows 8. You can't even uninstall fucking FLASH from Windows 10. And you still can't turn off "telemetry", not even in the professional version. I get Windows 10 for free and I'm not going to use it. It's awful.

  13. Re:Politically incorrect fact by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    Fully supported, ha! Hello, drivers? Of the top of my head: video, sound, networking, USB, etc. If you are dealing with an older computer, these components will be older which means they most likely won't have a Windows 10 driver.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  14. 32-bit is for LUDDITES. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Modern app appers use 32 APPS, not 32 LUDDITE bits!

    Apps!

  15. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Dracos · · Score: 0

    Edge which works perfectly

    LOL, Nope.

  16. Alternative by DrYak · · Score: 3, Informative

    For the record...

    Chrome binaries which include features listed below will not longer be updated after March 2016:
    - AAC, H.264, and MP3 Support

    It's possible to leverage ffmpeg to give additional codecs support to chromium.
    AFAIK Packman's and OpenSUSE's build of chromium use this.

    - Adobe Flash (PPAPI)

    To be more precise, it's the *bundling of flash* which is unavailable with chormium.
    Support for PPAPI can be compiled in Chromium, and if a suitable separate binary is provided, you get working flash version 19.
    (Again, Packman's and OpenSUSE's build is done so)

    For that matters, it's the same situation with Firefox: there's a plugin called "freshplayer" that enables support for PPAPI plugins in Firefox (it's basically a NSAPI to PPAPI wrapper).
    Again with a a suitable binary provided, you get working flash verison 19 (instead of version 11 which was the last version that flash provided for NSAPI).
    Though you don't get all the advantage of Google's sandboxing model.
    It's povided in OpenSUSE and Packman.

    (I don't have experience with Ubuntu, but I strongly suspect that they do the same. Or in any other way, it should definitely be available in some PPA)

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Alternative by tepples · · Score: 1

      Support for PPAPI can be compiled in Chromium, and if a suitable separate binary is provided, you get working flash version 19.

      I take this announcement to mean that Google and Adobe will no longer produce "a suitable separate binary" of Flash Player for 32-bit Linux.

    2. Re:Alternative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CD_M_ (Content Decryption Module) not CDN

      Netflix ported their web app to standards-compliant HTML5 a number of years ago, so this problem is largely out of Netflix's hands. Whether a browser on a given platform can play Netflix is all about DRM and depends on the browser's implementation of the W3C EME standard; specifically, whether it includes a CDM that supplies a DRM system Netflix can work with.

      On linux, right now only Chrome provides a usable CDM (Widevine DRM). But Mozilla will begin providing a linux CDM (Primetime DRM) for Firefox sometime in 2016.

    3. Re:Alternative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whether a browser on a given platform can play Netflix is all about DRM and depends on the browser's implementation of the W3C EME standard; specifically, whether it includes a CDM that supplies a DRM system Netflix can work with.

      So it's not really a standard, just a way to say "insert proprietary module here, which may or may not actually be compatible with the content".

    4. Re:Alternative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Freshplayer Ubuntu PPA.
      I successfully use their freshplayer debs (for Ubuntu Vivid), on Debian Jessie.

    5. Re:Alternative by lgw · · Score: 1

      So it's not really a standard, just a way to say "insert proprietary module here, which may or may not actually be compatible with the content".

      It is certainly a standard: it's a standard that defines the interface for the DRM plugin. It contains the proprietary module needed to only the plugin, instead of all of Silverlight or all of Flash, and so is a huge win.

      You don't ever want to specify the crypto used in a standard anyhow, because crypto changes faster than standards. I worked on the standard for encrypted tape drives. You don't specify stuff like "use AES", you specify stuff like "describing supported encryption methods" and "process to select the protocol used for key exchange". If you stupidly standardize on "use Diffie Hellman for key exchange" and then it turns out that there's a critical flaw in Diffie Hellman, then you're basically an idiot who's written a useless standard. (Or insert DVD/Bluray crack here, but I know little of those).

      So, the most you ever do is standardize the interface to select the crypto bits (and the data exchange and that trivial stuff), not the behavior of the crypto bits, unlike the rest of a standard.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:Alternative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's useless since you can't write a module that supports any and all possible encryption mechanisms, selectable dynamically. So you don't do that, and end up with a non-standard standardisation.

      If you need to change the standard on a quarterly basis, do that, rather than saying it's too hard and throwing your hands into the air.

    7. Re:Alternative by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      EME isn't really that much of an improvement over plugins, though it does its best to never call the 'CME' a 'plugin'. It's slightly better than just using the 'object' tag, since it standardizes a few details of interaction between javascript on the page and the 'CME'; but aside from a bunch of 'this section is non-normative' comments at the bottom to the effect of 'please don't write insecure CMEs, especially if they are going to run in a trusted context'; EME requires absolutely nothing of a CME aside from support for setting up a playback session.

      If you feel like implementing a pure toy of a system, they have their goofy little cleartext-key javascript thing; but fully replacing the browser's media playback mechanism is accepted(and probably expected, since any DRM system that just hands the decrypted media back to the browser for play is going to be absurdly weak); and the standard neither requires any particular methods for interacting with the CME to be available, nor forbids the CME from having additional functions, communicating through channels unknown to the browser, or doing just about anything else it wants to.

      The 'CME' does have the advantage of not starting with legacy baggage, which certainly isn't true of Flash; but architecturally browser plugins are much more tightly under the control of the browser than CMEs are.

    8. Re:Alternative by lgw · · Score: 1

      It's useless since you can't write a module that supports any and all possible encryption mechanisms, selectable dynamically. So you don't do that, and end up with a non-standard standardisation.

      It's an imperfect world. That's just how it is, when it takes 5 years for a draft standard to become official (by which time everything using it is obsolete), but crypto changes frequently. The thing it" it still helps a lot. It tremendously reduces the amount of vendor-specific code needed to get the job done.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    9. Re:Alternative by lgw · · Score: 1

      From my point of view as a user, I just want the plug-in to be secure. Since these plugins (allegedly) protect valuable IP, they'll have vastly better security review than Flash has ever had. The side effect of these companies caring about DRM is a security awareness that will be quite beneficial to the user.

      And, still, as little as the standard requires, anything there is better than nothing there. (I think the standards committee were really slacking here, BTW, but then, the W3C isn't a real standards body AFAIK. No oversight or best practices from ANSI, NIST, ISO, or any of the important parent organizations.)

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    10. Re:Alternative by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      While I suspect that, in practice, most 'CME's will be better than flash(if only because they don't have flash's byzantine history and feature set; and people other than Adobe will be writing some of them; I'm not terribly optimistic about their chances of security in practice: Flash is, indeed, utterly broken; but because of that browsers(particularly Chrome, and Edge to at least some extent) spend a lot of time and energy actively distrusting it and trying to sandbox its inevitable failures.

      Because the CDM is a DRM mechanism; it seems less likely that vendors will tolerate having their precious black-box kept on the same short leash(I'm not sure whether they'll view going full 'protected media path'/platform equivalent as worth the effort and breakage; but the more paranoid they are, the greater their desire will be to have the CDM outside the control, or even inspection, of anything that might be used to extract plaintext from it.

      There's also the problem that, even if the CDM is perfect, there isn't a whole lot of reason to trust the benevolence and good intentions of the assorted media companies(and, inevitably, ads) that will be using EME on their videos, and demanding certain features from the content decryption module in order to accept it as valid for the purposes of interacting with their systems. In an ideal world, perhaps these parties would stick to "must keep encrypted content safe on its way to the screen" and nothing more; but given that the CDM can, technically, do anything a program running on the system could(possibly more, if a platform vendor includes a hardware component, TPM, dedicated video decryption and decode module, that sort of thing). It may be better at locking out random drive-by malice; but the opportunity to run high privileged code on your machine, behind a DRM-protected veil, seems far too juicy to resist misuse from 'legitimate' companies.

  17. Re:Politically incorrect fact by DrXym · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I've used Edge on a tablet and it works as well as I would expect. It's certainly the best browser on Windows 10 with regard to properly supporting touch - bringing up the virtual keyboard in tablet mode etc. Chrome also has fairly good support but it's not quite to the same standard. Firefox lags behind both.

  18. Alternative by DrYak · · Score: 1

    The most important feature of the closed-source Chrome is it's the way to stream Netflix on Linux.

    Indeed, Widevine CDN is currently the only supported DRM for Linux users.

    And currently, there are howtos floating on the web explaining how to enable support for Widevine CDN plugin in Chromium.

    Mozilla has announced that they'll eventually support Adobe's CDN under Linux which should give other alternative to support Netflix here.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  19. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even my wife's 1-year-old HP laptop freezes up all the time with Windows 10. (Never happened before the upgrade, must be a driver problem.)

  20. Studios probably push it by tepples · · Score: 2

    It's ridiculous that in 2015 someone is selling a video service where you can't just use whatever player you want to.

    Then what non-ridiculous method of conditional access to video would be acceptable to the companies that fund production of feature films?

    1. Re:Studios probably push it by kelemvor4 · · Score: 2

      It's ridiculous that in 2015 someone is selling a video service where you can't just use whatever player you want to.

      Then what non-ridiculous method of conditional access to video would be acceptable to the companies that fund production of feature films?

      The site could require authentication, and use SSL pretty easily. If you're referring to some pipe dream of preventing users from recording the video you're fooling yourself. With a modern video card you can record anything displayed on the screen. For example if you've got an nvidia card, you hit F9, and viola. I just tested - works fine with netflix. nVidia calls it shadowplay, AMD calls it raptr (I think). I guess intel is a player in the gpu world now as well.. You can also use fraps or probably a handful of other softwares to do the job.

    2. Re:Studios probably push it by tepples · · Score: 2

      If you're referring to some pipe dream of preventing users from recording the video you're fooling yourself.

      Companies that are fooling themselves still control the exclusive rights to feature films that end users demand. They contractually require Netflix and other licensees to play along with the fooling.

    3. Re:Studios probably push it by gsnedders · · Score: 2

      As far as I can tell, from what I've heard from people at Netflix and the like, they don't believe it will eliminate piracy. They do believe hat it'll stop your mother from sending a copy to your uncle. That is the type of piracy they're targeting, and as far as I'm aware it's quite effective at eliminating that.

    4. Re:Studios probably push it by spire3661 · · Score: 0

      SO much effort has gone into this across the entire electronics industry. Lots of products removed the ability to exchange files with anyone, EVER. What the fuck happened to Ad-hoc wifi networking? Why did we remove it for bullshit like AirDrop? O thats right, so users cant exchange anything without going through the central office.

      --
      Good-bye
    5. Re:Studios probably push it by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Then what non-ridiculous method of conditional access to video would be acceptable to the companies that fund production of feature films?

      What makes flash acceptable now? The DRM as a supposed protector of their content?

      Challenge: find an example of a show/movie on Netflix that is also not available as a torrent or on usenet DRM free. Anyone willing to "record" Netflix is not going to be terribly bothered by running Popcorn Time.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    6. Re: Studios probably push it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the fuck happened to Ad-hoc wifi networking?

      Uh, it's still there and still works fine.

    7. Re: Studios probably push it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AirDrop works over Bluetooth.

    8. Re:Studios probably push it by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Your argument is rational, but depends on the content owners (MPAA) to understand the current state of technology, and then write contracts with distribution (Netflix) that are also rational.

      Do you see the flaw yet? The MPAA, in no way, could be described as rational, or understanding of the current state of technology.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    9. Re:Studios probably push it by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      Then what non-ridiculous method of conditional access to video would be acceptable to the companies that fund production of feature films.

      Obviously it's hard to say whether or not increasing profits would be acceptable to everyone who funds production. There will be outliers so I shouldn't arrogantly claim that they are all intended to be legitimate profit-seeking businesses.

      Nevertheless, you'd think that for the common case (production companies that are trying to get the most money), something like "standard mkv or mp4 files served by HTTP or maybe HTTPS" would be a nearly perfect solution. (I think HTTPS is usually the best way to go, but for large media files it probably makes more sense to be as cache-friendly as possible.) Those are proven techs that already have a wide variety of existing implementations, and can be relatively easily re-implemented if someone has a new idea for an innovative player.

      What's the downside of that?

      Is the downside that it doesn't give service providers enough of a vertical market, so they can't as easily discourage customers from using multiple providers? That's the only reason I can think of, for using proprietary stuff: if I had a convenient unified user interface that showed content available on Netflix and their competitors (e.g. HBO) then I might shop at Netflix less often. Competition is bad.

      But that's just Netflix's point of view; it's not the point of view of a profit-seeking production company or a viewer. Producers and consumers should be on the same page when it comes to making things easier to buy and use. It's just the middlemen who see advantages to putting up barriers and .. *cough* .. adding value. So I think we should ignore Netflix's agenda and concentrate on the production companies, just as you suggested.

      If a production company comes back and says "no, DRM-free standard files over a standard protocol is unacceptable" then we should ask them just what the hell their agenda is, if making money isn't it. We tend to think they are trying to make money, so all our proposed solutions (e.g. stop using DRM so that you can sell more copies to more people) are geared toward that. If their agenda is something more obscure, then either we should find out what it is, or just let it go and stop worrying about it. Maybe pirating videos instead of paying Netflix for them, is compatible with everyone's non-profit agenda so we're all getting worked up over a non-problem. (But then what's the copyright for?!)

      My guess is that the above paragraph is totally off on a tangent, and the majority actually do want money (and want as much as they can get, where more is better), so switching to standards and losing DRM is going to be the best answer for them.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  21. Amazon Web Services by tepples · · Score: 2

    I'm not sure one of the examples you chose is the best:

    A company is in the business where they get their revenues.

    And Amazon Web Services gets its revenues from leasing resources to customers willing to run their software on someone else's computer.

    calling Google a tech company is just as ridiculous as calling Amazon a tech company

    I don't follow. Is AWS not "tech"? Or does revenue from Marketplace commissions and FBA services outweigh AWS revenue?

  22. What about IE9 on Vista/Win2008? by BUL2294 · · Score: 2

    So what is Microsoft going to do for IE9 on Vista and Server 2008, both of which are EOL much later than January, 2016? Vista's EOL is April, 2017 while Windows Server 2008's EOL is January, 2020. I wouldn't want an unpatched IE9 running on either OS, where the OS continues to receive security updates, but the browser does not...

    Windows Server 2008 is still widely used as it's the last Windows Server OS available as x86... (And Windows Server 2008 R2 is not a free update...)

    --
    Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
    1. Re:What about IE9 on Vista/Win2008? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Simple, you kill the Windows.

    2. Re:What about IE9 on Vista/Win2008? by tepples · · Score: 0

      How does one "kill the Windows" on a Windows server without interrupting the availability of ASP.NET apps that run on said server?

    3. Re:What about IE9 on Vista/Win2008? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same way people "killed the Systems" which ran their "Photoshops" and "Quarks"?

    4. Re: What about IE9 on Vista/Win2008? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Set up the app on a GNU/Linux box with Mono, let it handle any persistence. Update DNS. Unplug Windows server.

  23. Re:Politically incorrect fact by unixisc · · Score: 1

    I know that this is hard to digest for a Linux neckbeard, but Windows 10 is actually a great way to breathe life to an old computer. Even 32-bit is fully supported. There, I said it.

    As the above title stated, Microsoft is dropping support for all IE before 11. So if one was on XP, the last version of IE that would have worked for them would have been 8, and they'd be SOL if IE was all they used. It's never made sense to me why Microsoft would bother supporting 32-bit beyond 8, since 10 practically requires at least 4GB of memory, which 32-bit Windows can't handle - no matter what the version.

    As far as 32-bit Linux goes, they can remain w/ Firefox or Opera. Actually, if you toss in Konqueror/ReKonq as well as Epiphany/Web, there are more choices there. Chrome does depend on you running on the latest if not greatest devices, and there is nothing to suggest that it would be a good fit on XP era Linux boxes.

  24. Re:Politically incorrect fact by unixisc · · Score: 1

    If you put aside the spyware - which I fixed w/ ShutUp10, Windows 10 is just fine. The desktop mode is as usable as Windows 7, and the tablet mode is fine as well.

    Only issue is that the apps sometimes crash a lot - like News. Also, in News, I can no longer configure what sources exactly I want, which sucks! Windows 10 could use a wider variety of apps.

  25. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windows 10 supports drivers from Windows Vista and newer.

  26. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know this is hard to digest for a Windows old-timer like you, but Windows 10 runs like molasses on low-end hardware. The best way to breathe a little life into an old computer is to install a low-end Linux desktop (XFCE, LXDE).

  27. Older versions of Ubuntu and Debian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't mind them dropping support for 32-bit builds so much. Just about any computer that is going to be used to run Chrome (or other heavy browsers like Firefox) is likely already capable of running a 64-bit OS. What does bother me is Google dropping support for Debian 7 and Ubuntu 12.04. Those platforms are still supported by their respective projects. Both only have about 4-5 years of support, so building Chrome packages for them isn't a super-long investment. Why not continue to support them for another year or two, until Debian and Canonical put them out to pasture?

    1. Re:Older versions of Ubuntu and Debian by tepples · · Score: 1

      The Debian project and Canonical build Chromium. The only features that would disappear are Flash, patented codecs, and DRM.

    2. Re:Older versions of Ubuntu and Debian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So only the reasons why you would actually use Chrome?

  28. Re:Politically incorrect fact by tepples · · Score: 1

    If Windows 10 supports video drivers from Windows 7, then why does the Get Windows 10 app on my Acer Aspire X1 PC running Windows 7 say the integrated GPU in the PC's nForce chipset is incompatible with Windows 10?

  29. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know that this is hard to digest for a Linux neckbeard, but Windows 10 is actually a great way to breathe life to an old computer. Even 32-bit is fully supported. There, I said it.

    Aye, you said it...pity it was complete and utter bollocks.

    Hint: $your_definition_of_old != $my_definition_of_old

    Maybe for scheißt und kichert, I'll try it on my Celeron 433 box...

  30. Most current IE version for a supported OS by tepples · · Score: 2

    From Internet Explorer Support Lifecycle Policy FAQ, linked in the featured article:

    Beginning January 12, 2016, only the most current version of Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system will receive technical support and security updates, as shown in the table below:
    [...]
    Windows Vista SP2: Internet Explorer 9
    Windows Server 2008 SP2: Internet Explorer 9
    Windows Embedded POSReady 2009: Internet Explorer 8

    So yes, IE 9 security updates will continue. So will IE 8 updates for those Windows XP users who have applied the "Piece of $#!+ Ready" registry hack.

  31. Ending support for IE by blogagog · · Score: 1

    This is terrible news! My computer won't run the newest version of Internet Explorer. I hope I can find another browser out there...

    1. Re:Ending support for IE by tepples · · Score: 1

      Which computer, and which operating system? As I wrote above, Microsoft is still supporting IE 9 on Windows Vista.

    2. Re:Ending support for IE by blogagog · · Score: 1

      I was just messing around :). Sorry it wasn't more clear. I haven't used IE since 2003ish.

  32. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

    I'm sure MS would have loved to drop 32 bit support. After all it's double the trouble (more or less). The fact is that MS isn't in a position to be picky about what end user H/W they want to support.

  33. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you put aside the spyware

    I won't. If you're in the habit of bending over for Microsoft, suit yourself.

    which I fixed w/ ShutUp10

    No. You think you did, but you did not.

    Windows 10 is just fine.

    No. Absolutely not. It comes with Flash! In 2015!

    The desktop mode is as usable as Windows 7

    Not even close.

    and the tablet mode is fine as well.

    Yikes.

    Only issue is that the apps sometimes crash a lot - like News. Also, in News, I can no longer configure what sources exactly I want, which sucks!

    I see that you have low expectations. That explains a lot.

    Windows 10 could use a wider variety of apps.

    No, it needs less of that crap, especially not preinstalled. I didn't want the Microsoft news page as my homepage in Internet Explorer 6 on XP, and I don't want Microsoft's news app now. Microsoft Windows 10 Professional comes with start menu tiles for XBox and fucking Minecraft! What the hell is wrong with that company!

  34. Re:Politically incorrect fact by DarkOx · · Score: 1

    which 32-bit Windows can't handle

    Look I count myself among the windows haters but there is plenty wrong and deficient in Windows to complain about without making false statements. There are several variants of 32-bit Windows that do PAE

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  35. or Raspberry Pi by snadrus · · Score: 1

    This is also a blow to the low-cost computing push (RaspberryPi, etc). Virtually all the ARM SBCs are 32-bit today, and their claim-to-fame is having a real browser (Chrome). If they stop 32-bit compatibility, that will greatly harm lightweight browser consumers from smart TVs to 3rd-world computing.

    Oh well, there's always Firefox.

    --
    Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
  36. Re:Foolish... by kthreadd · · Score: 2

    The browser may not need more than 4 GB of memory but it sure wants the extra registers in 64 bit x86, and on ARMv8 you definitely don't want to power up the 32 bit module if you can avoid it.

  37. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Scoth · · Score: 1

    I recently picked up an old Thinkpad Z61t at a thrift store for a fiver. Perfect condition. Original Core Duo, 2gb of RAM. Tossed another Gig of RAM at it, and had no trouble getting the Windows 7 it came with upgraded to 10. No driver problems except for a little fiddliness with the bluetooth. But then I've had nightmares with bluetooth on Windows all the way back to XP. It's only marginally useful for video (SD Youtube works ok) but general use it's more than adequate*. Granted multimedia is sort of a requirement these days but if I were stuck using one for work or similar it'd be just fine. With the relatively big jump in hardware requirements between 7 and 8-10 (NX bit support primarily) just about anything capable of running Windows 10 should run it decently.

    That said, I did order a $3 Core 2 Duo off eBay to drop in it because why not? I'll also likely go Linux on it soon, depending on a couple applications.

    * I accept that my definition of adequate probably varies a bit from the average. I use it as a side-computer for IRC, looking up game wikis, etc if I'm doing something on my mainbox that doesn't do windowed mode well. And yes, I realize even Core Duos are a generation or two ahead of Pentium M.

  38. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Scoth · · Score: 1

    Video drivers are a bit of a special case since Windows uses graphics for the desktop so much more now. Windows 10 wants WDDM 2.0 graphics drivers where possible. I suspect it'd work fine, but you might lose some of the animations and eye candy. I've installed Windows 10 on a number of old computers and haven't had too much trouble with drivers, but I rarely try to use them for things like gaming or other graphically-intensive things. It's supposed to work with WDDM 1.3 as well, but all that gets complicated.

  39. Re:Politically incorrect fact by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Such as? If it's anything post Windows Vista, or even XP, 64-bit was available, so why would anyone use 32-bit Windows w/ PAE?

  40. Re:Politically incorrect fact by phorm · · Score: 1

    Yes, but on 32-bit windows, there are other ways to run popular services (i.e. Netflix), but on Linux the only way I'm currently aware of is to run a full fledged Chrome (Chromium won't cut it) and have the libnssX libraries installed.

    I just recently set up a laptop for a family member to do this. It runs 32-bit Mint and they stream to their TV via chromecast.

  41. It's not that it's *impossible* by Junta · · Score: 2

    While they would *love* for it to be outright impossible to copy, their goal is to make it as much a pain in the ass to copy as possible.

    Let's say they didn't do any of these DRM shenanigans. You could 'wget http://netflix.com/popular_mov...' and have it run in the background at whatever speed the internet provides. You might have a 90 minute film in less than 10 minutes.

    If you screen record, then that means your computer is now watching this video and unable to do anything else for the full duration of the feature. For most folks that's just too much trouble, they would just as soon wait til they want to watch it and stream it live if the computer's going to be tied up anyway.

    That's the goal of all this gunk, trying to find a way to maximize inconvenience for those who want to use it in a manner they didn't want while delivering what they deem an acceptable experience. Note that a blu-ray rip of a film or series to mkv and then streaming to Kodi I find a much better experience than Netflix, and I find it frustrating that Content and the delivery channel are being linked (have to use a 'netflix' app for some things, a 'hulu' for others, etc). Basically I don't find the situation 'acceptable', but there aren't enough of me to make a difference in the market. Also so long as I have an application that lets me rip media, I can buy media and circumvent the DRM.

    On the other hand, for things like Netflix, where the model is explicitly 'rental', it makes some sense. However always-online DRM for *purchased* content that restricts my choice of playback device/application annoys the piss out of me.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    1. Re:It's not that it's *impossible* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you screen record, then that means your computer is now watching this video and unable to do anything else for the full duration of the feature. For most folks that's just too much trouble, they would just as soon wait til they want to watch it and stream it live if the computer's going to be tied up anyway.

      Lol. What happens IRL is that one person records the stream, seeds it as a torrent (often after removing the commercials), and I just google it and download it in less than 10 min via torrent. And then I can watch it with any player I like, on any computer I have, as many times as I want.

    2. Re:It's not that it's *impossible* by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      While they would *love* for it to be outright impossible to copy, their goal is to make it as much a pain in the ass to copy as possible.

      They succeed in making it a pain in the ass, period. There is a lot of competition for scarce free time these days, and if the modern audience needs any more encouragement that they should spend their scant entertainment hours consuming big media content, these boneheads will be happy to provide it. Ranks right up there with FBI warnings on video disks, which surely never stopped any illegal copying but certainly did make home theatre a less comfortable experience. I mean, invite friends over to watch FBI warnings. Curl up with your significant other for a romantic evening of FBI warnings. Gather your kids around for popcorn and FBI warnings. Sure.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re:It's not that it's *impossible* by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      By making it a pain in the ass to copy, they also make it more of a pain in the ass to use at all... And it only requires one person to copy it and make it available in an unrestricted format.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    4. Re:It's not that it's *impossible* by Junta · · Score: 1

      At that point, however, they have a shot at detecting and acting on the infringement. Without their draconian DRM BS, people would just hammer a legitimate source in a way that is actually very hard to discern whether the behavior is 'legitimate' or not.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    5. Re:It's not that it's *impossible* by Junta · · Score: 1

      I don't disagree with the sentiment that it's made a pain in the ass for even normal use, however the part about the one person being enough to make the whole thing moot is not true. They can (and do) track down folks doing the unrestricted distribution and cause them difficulty. They would be otherwise unable to do so if netflix was DRM free and people just farmed it off of netflix, leaving them unable to discern the nature of the consumption.

      This is the awkwardness of an economic reality trying to accomodate both limited and unlimited resources. Stupid stuff starts happening around things like so-called intellectual property that still requires an investment to make happen, but once produced the 'supply' is essentially unlimited.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    6. Re:It's not that it's *impossible* by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Thanks to Handbrake and Plex, I don't think I've seen that FBI warning in years. The first and only destination that any optical media-based movie I purchased goes to is the BD drive on my desktop, where it gets ripped, stored, and cataloged. Then the disc goes back into it's box, and that goes into another box in storage.

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    7. Re:It's not that it's *impossible* by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      Isn't that what your second (or third, fourth, etc.) computer is for? Who has only one these days?

  42. Re:Politically incorrect fact by tepples · · Score: 1

    But the Get Windows 10 app will not let me proceed, instead telling me that NVIDIA has not made the GPU compatible and giving a link to shop for a new PC. Should I take a screenshot? Is there a recommended half-height discrete GPU to use instead of the integrated one? (Because the case is compact, a full-height GPU will not fit.) Should I follow the instructions in this thread to create USB install media? Or should I just leave that PC at Windows 7 and then attempt to Linux it once Windows 7 reaches end of extended support in a few years?

  43. Re:Foolish... by TWX · · Score: 1

    Plus it's not a bad idea to go 64-bit clean on Linux installations if possible as if one doesn't force 64-bit clean, over time and installing additional software often the box becomes a polluted mess of 32 bit and 64 bit programs and libraries. Better to drop 32 bit altogether if it's practical.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  44. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trust me, pretty much all Windows 7 video drivers work perfectly in Windows 10.

  45. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Scoth · · Score: 1

    That's mostly up to you. I didn't upgrade to Windows 7 until I needed DirectX 10. The main advantages of Windows 10 is going to be DirectX 12 and things like Windows Store apps, which may not interest you. I suspect your box probably wouldn't be running much DirectX 12 anyway. It's not impossible to roll back if you don't like it, but might be kind of a pain. As far as a video card upgrade, just about anything discrete is going to be a big upgrade. I'm partial to nvidia myself. Mostly comes down to whether you want to put money into that box or put it towards a new system.

    Incidentally, if you're the tepples I suspect you are, you should know that I just about have robotfindskitten finished in NES 6502 Assembly. Been a lot more fun than the C version I wrote. It's fully playable but the winning animation isn't done yet. Maybe I'll work on the variable-width font version next :) I'm terrible with web forums and forgot to get back and check on how things went, and now the threads are over a year old. Small world.

  46. A bit late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I already dropped support for Chrome.

  47. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure, if you like a tearing desktop with no animations. :)

  48. Re:Foolish... by lgw · · Score: 1

    Counter-intuitively, most actual programs run slower in 64-bit, because the advantage from all the new registers doesn't overcome the penalty for the object code and many objects in memory being 2x the size, so only half as much fits in CPU cache. Depends on the program, of course, but stuff running faster in 64-bit is surprisingly rare outside of number-crunching.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  49. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm, strange, since firefox 42 I've not really had any issues with the touch keyboard on windows 10, after activating the ui settings in firefox to enable the touch keyboard ofc. Haven't really used tablet mode though even though I'm using it on a tablet, but I've enabled the option to bring up the touch keyboard in desktop mode in windows settings.

  50. Businesses finally upgrading IE by Art3x · · Score: 1

    Microsoft says that all versions older than the latest one will no longer be supported starting Jan. 12, 2016.

    In January my company will upgrade to IE 11, because of this, and probably stay on a current version from then on. It feels so weird. I'm used to having to code for a version of IE that is several years old. It's a good time to be a web developer!

  51. Sigh by ottdmk · · Score: 1

    Well, this is disappointing. My mom & dad are on an antique Dell with a 32-bit processor. First OpenSUSE announced they were abandoning 32-bit, and I thought "OK, I'll install Lubuntu or Xubuntu or something." Now Google does this. I had them on Chrome because of the baked in Flash support. I suppose I could get away with Chromium... I think the only site my folks ever visit with video is Youtube. Still, just one more annoying thing.

  52. Re:Foolish... by PRMan · · Score: 1

    Actually, almost all programs on .NET run about 10% faster, but are about 20% larger on disk.

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  53. Re:Foolish... by Forever+Wondering · · Score: 1

    You said it. 64 bit address space is handy, but it's the extra registers. And, the 64 bit x86 ABI allows the first six arguments of a function to be passed in registers instead of stack pushes. The code is more compact and about 30% faster in execution, just by rebuilding for 64 bit.

    --
    Like a good neighbor, fsck is there ...
  54. Re:Politically incorrect fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One anecdote: I picked up an Asus EE PC 1005PEG netbook on Craigslist for $100 to use for carefree international travel. It had been upgraded to W7 Ultimate before I bought it and I accidentally let it upgrade to W10 two months or so ago. The upgrade installed the 32-bit OS although the CPU supports 64-bit. It runs perfectly acceptably for all email/Office/browsing apps despite its "low end" hardware: Atom N450 1.66 GHz, 2 GB memory, 802.11b, 100Mb Ethernet, 250 GB disk

  55. Re:Foolish... by Forever+Wondering · · Score: 2

    Not really true.

    Only addresses/pointers [and longs] double in size. Most generated code uses the lower 8 regs were possible, so no prefix byte. Also, offsets can be smaller due to RIP relative addressing. Because the ABI specifies the first six function arguments are in registers, no wasteful pushes on calls. Also, because of the extra registers, this reduces "register pressure". That is, you don't have to store the value in a register to the stack frame just to make room for another value because you don't have enough registers to go around ["stack spill"]. So, you do fewer extraneous memory accesses. Because of the 64 bit wide registers, you can do real 64 bit multiply/divides.

    The CPU instruction execution unit is much smarter than you imagine. Some of the instructions may be larger, but they're fetched a cache line at a time. They then get predecoded and put into a cached instruction execution queue.

    The execution unit doesn't just "look at one instruction, execute it, then forget about it". While executing an instruction, it's looking ahead at several instructions to see which ones can be executed simultaneously with the current one. Within a given function, the execution unit just refetches from the queue and doesn't even need to redecode instructions from the L1 cache

    With more registers, it is easier for the execution unit to detect parallelism and perform out-of-order, parallel, and speculative execution that make things go faster. If something gets "spilled" back to the stack, the compiler knows it did this, but the execution can't [and shouldn't] because it can't discern whether the stack write was for "spill" or whether a function that will need the data in memory will [soon] be called.

    I regularly write and build programs and I regularly disassemble them to see if the code is efficient enough. They are quite compact.

    And, given all of the above, overall, 64 bit is about 30% faster. Based on what I've read, and what I've benchmarked.

    --
    Like a good neighbor, fsck is there ...
  56. Prank, for sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > "To provide the best experience for the most-used Linux versions"

    Ho-hum.

    Diminishing returns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns

    4- to 8-bit: holy mf! a real computer!
    8- to 16-bit: wow! we can manage the entire company with that!
    16- to 32-bit: that will enable us to solve a lot of technical problems: excellent.
    32- to 64-bit: why do we need 64-bit, after all? Oh, yes, the videos, more gradients -- that's nice, I suppose.
    64- to 128-bit: glares in games are more real... and something else, I believe... maybe orbit calculation?
    128- to 256-bit: meh.

    And stop that with more registers, ok? I changed all light bulbs in my house to leds and my electric bill is not 10% of what it used to be.

  57. Re: Politically incorrect fact by armanox · · Score: 1

    I love that someone thinks I'm trolling when I'm stating what many people (not just me) have seen. Windows 10 is a lot heavier then 7 or 8 on equivalent hardware

    --
    I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
  58. Re: Politically incorrect fact by armanox · · Score: 1

    Honest question - how am I trolling when I'm stating things that many people have seen and reported back to Microsoft? Windows 10 is slower then its predecessors on 32 bit hardware, and I've stated what was eating CPU time (desktop effects and Windows Defender, neither of which can be disabled)

    --
    I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
  59. Re:Politically incorrect fact by jrumney · · Score: 1

    The announcement was only about Linux, and more specifically it was only about .DEB packages.

  60. Re:Politically incorrect fact by jrumney · · Score: 1

    so why would anyone use 32-bit Windows w/ PAE?

    Because they have an Atom chipset more than 3 years old, which lacks the amd64 instruction set.

  61. Re:Politically incorrect fact by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    And if there are no Windows 7 drivers for my machine? 32-bit machines go way back you know.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  62. Re:Foolish... by lgw · · Score: 1

    And, given all of the above, overall, 64 bit is about 30% faster. Based on what I've read, and what I've benchmarked

    But are you looking at number crunching, or at "card walloping code": iterating though a large array of large objects, applying some simple transformation to each. Most business code, after all, does nothing interesting to a lot of bloated objects. (of course, such code is almost always I/O bound anyhow, so maybe it doesn't matter.)

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  63. Re:Foolish... by Forever+Wondering · · Score: 1

    No, I'm looking at all job mixes. Ripping through a large array is going to be memory bound. Business code will benefit more from 64 bit.

    When you do a function call in 32 bit, you have to calculate the argument values, then do pushes to the stack. In 64 bit, you put them directly into the correct registers. The optimizer is usually good enough to do the calculation directly on the target register (e.g. it doesn't calc the value in %rax and then move it to %rXX--it does the calc directly on %rXX). So, for four arguments, you save four push instructions, not to mention storing the the cache/dram. Further, if some of the args are just passed along:
    fncA(a,b,c,d)
    { ...
        fncB(a,b,7,9)
    }

    The a/b values are simply already in the correct regs, so you skip two fetches and two pushes.

    Once again, the extra regs allow the exec unit to see the parallelism available. This can be [and is] applied to almost every five instruction sequence in any function.

    Oh, forgot to mention the RIP relative addressing advantage when generating PIC (position independent code). In 64 bit, address calculation is done relative to the %rip (program counter) register. This is wonderful for shared libraries (e.g. .so's, .dll's) which are built using PIC. In 32 bit, you have to burn the %ebx register to have a base register to address from. So, the available register count dwindles by one.

    Speculative execution. If you have a sequence like:
        inst1
        inst2
        inst3
        inst4
        test ...
        bnz value_nonzero
    value_is_zero:
        inst5
        inst6 ...
        b elsewhere

    value_is_nonzero:
        inst20
        inst21 ...

    The execution unit may execute both pathways simultaneously [speculatively] (e.g. either the branch is taken or not). The exec unit may not have enough info to decide the branch (e.g. the data dependency graph shows that one part is waiting on a memory fetch--Or it's waiting on results from the [relatively slow] floating point unit). But, the exec unit doesn't wait until the branch is decided. It keeps executing both in separate instruction streams because it notices that they are independent of what the branch is waiting for.

    When the branch is [able to be] decided, it will throw away the path that isn't used. The advantage is that whatever decision path is used, we're already several instructions into it. That is, we didn't have to wait until the test results were available. This can be nested. If one or more of the paths have themselves conditional branching, they, too, will split and do speculative execution. These speculative paths form a tree structure. IIRC, x86 have a max tree depth of four?

    Doing this is greatly aided by the extra registers. It reduces the number of pipeline stalls.

    Seriously, if any of the above is news to you, I'd refrain from making statements about 64 bit performance. Your original about "many objects being 2x the size" was my clue. Even if you are a programmer of sorts, it seems to me that you don't truly understand much about the underlying architecture [x86 in particular].

    --
    Like a good neighbor, fsck is there ...
  64. The agenda is being able to sell >1 copy by tepples · · Score: 1

    What's the downside of [just selling WebM or MP4 files with no digital restrictions management]?

    The inability to sell more than one such file, as it takes next to no expertise and effort to casually infringe the copyright in a DRM-free file in pristine quality, especially compared to the expertise and effort that the studio needs to investigate such casual infringement.

    If a production company comes back and says "no, DRM-free standard files over a standard protocol is unacceptable" then we should ask them just what the hell their agenda is

    The agenda is being able to sell more than one copy.

  65. Re:Politically incorrect fact by toddestan · · Score: 1

    I got a Thinkpad R60, so it's slightly older than the Z61t (which for $5 is bargain!). The Windows 10 upgrade mostly worked. The issues I ran into was 1) Would not install off of a USB flash drive and 2) No drivers for the graphics card (ATI Radeon X1400) in Windows 10. I solved 1 by burning to DVD to install, and 2 by installing the Vista x64 (!) driver which Windows 10 didn't seem to have a problem with. I'd say Windows 10 is faster than Windows 7. The big problem with Windows 7 now is that Microsoft won't do another service pack and there's just so many updates now that Windows update will bring an older computer to its knees for a considerable amount of time whenever it does an update check. Which was my main motivation for taking Microsoft up on their free Windows 10 offer for this particular computer. Still, not bad for a computer that I bought before Vista was released. Runs pretty good - Core 2 Duo 2Ghz, 3GB of ram (chipset limitation, I actually have 4GB physically installed), and a 120GB SSD (which is speed limited by the SATA1 interface).

  66. Re:Politically incorrect fact by toddestan · · Score: 1

    If you have a 32-bit machine, you're pretty much locked out of Windows 10 anyway. Windows 10 (and Windows 8) requires the CPU support the NX bit, which only a handful of 32 bit CPU's support.

  67. Weak Diffie Hellman by DrYak · · Score: 1

    If you stupidly standardize on "use Diffie Hellman for key exchange" and then it turns out that there's a critical flaw in Diffie Hellman, then you're basically an idiot who's written a useless standard.

    For the record, the current problems isn't that there's a critical flaw in the Diffie Hellman key exchance itself - there's no fundamental problem in the way Diffie Hellman works.
    The problem are the implementation (who are rather lazy in their approach to pick random prime).

    Or to put an example: it doesn't matter if AES is the currently most un-crackable and resistant encryption algorithm when everybody repeats one of the vowel 8 times in a row to pick an 8 caracter password:
    you'll just defeat it by bruteforcing using a dictionnary only containing 6 entries (on for each vowel).

    Same actually happened for DH:
    DH works, but some implementation only use small primes, and nearly everbody uses one of the few precomputed prime that comes out of the box.
    And the largest part of the work for cracking depends on this prime, so if there's only small number of primes used in the wild, you just need to spend your cracking efforts on those few primes, and bam! you've insta-cracked the communication of everyone clueless enough to use the same prime.

    Same also happened with DSA a few year back. It also depends on prime number, cracking DSA also relies on guessing the prime. If everybody picks just one of the few prime of some default list instead of computing a completely random prime, this dramatically reduce the size of the dictionary you need to use to brute force the key. It's possible to crack the private key just by trying the few common prime used by everyone.

     

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