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Los Angeles Flirts With Pre-Crime (washingtonpost.com)

Posted by Soulskill on from the what's-a-nice-town-like-you-doing-with-a-law-like-this dept.

An anonymous reader writes: The city of Los Angeles is considering a new plan to fight prostitution: sending letters to men who solicit prostitutes in the hopes that the letters are seen by family members. Why not just arrest them while they're doing it? Because these letters aren't being sent to the houses of men who were convicted, or even arrested. Instead, automated license plate readers would scan the cars driving down streets known to have a prostitution problem, and the letters would be sent to the address associated with those vehicles. An article about the plan says, "There isn't 'potential' for abuse here, this is a legislated abuse of technology that is already controversial when it's used by police for the purpose of seeking stolen vehicles, tracking down fugitives and solving specific crimes."

20 of 390 comments (clear)

  1. A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by taustin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're used to being sued, and losing. I guess they're under budget this year, and need to spend a few more million before New Years day on legal fees.

    1. Re:A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by NoKaOi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They're used to being sued, and losing.

      Yup, and apparently they don't care. I'm pretty sure what they are doing is the epitome of libel. It's not abuse of technology, and future president is not at question. They are intentionally trying to defame somebody by accusing them of something they haven't done.

    2. Re:A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by pete6677 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Prostitution should be legalized and regulated, and human trafficking should be aggressively prosecuted. Let consenting adults engage in whatever services they deem fit, and then focus law enforcement resources on those who actually harm others.

    3. Re:A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If Jesus were alive today, the LAPD would send a letter to His family informing them that he might have a prostitution problem.

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    4. Re:A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by Calydor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A lot of people only WORK because they really the money, to feed their family.

      Consent should be easy: If the prostitute wants to say no but another person is saying yes FOR her, that is not consent.

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    5. Re:A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by omnichad · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Prostitution *is* legal in the US. As long as you film it and sell the resulting video.

  2. Why is prostitution illegal in the first place? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, if a girl wants to sell her body, why shouldn't she?

    1. Re:Why is prostitution illegal in the first place? by techno-vampire · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Strictly speaking, she's not selling her body, she's offering a short-term rental. And, of course, not all prostitutes are women.

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    2. Re:Why is prostitution illegal in the first place? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually prostitution is not heavily associated with human trafficking from a statistical perspective at all -- in the USA, Europe and Asia. There are some places in the world, like the Middle East and parts of Afrifa, where abduction is indeed a statistically significant issue. Trafficking is also largely associated with underage or child prostitution, which is an entirely different animal.

      But the issue here, as with narcotics (and alcohol prohibition, once upon a time), is that illegality begets higher-prices and higher risks, which in turn begets increasingly violent crime. Illegality also prevents the industry from being taxed and to some extent from accessing healthcare -- both of which carry significantly higher social costs than negligible human trafficking.

      Most importantly: we have civil liberties in the United States and in Europe which are supposed to protect the right to privacy, and the right for consenting adults to engage in consensual, sexual behavior. What is deeply ironic is how the very same feminists who demand that government "keep your laws off my body", seem to be quite alright with government telling them they don't have the right to engage in the oldest and most basic transaction.

      The fact that "money" is raised as a distinction between prostitution and sex is ultimately rather laughable, considering that money is almost never not an issue. Women will always and forever be attracted to wealth, and have sex for wealth. Female doctors do not screw male nurses. Female restaurant owners don't bang waiters. Female pilots don't shack up with male flight attendants. Female bosses don't get banged by their male secretaries. Money and power are always and everywhere part of female attraction -- be it long term, or a quick hook-up. But I digress. The point is, money and sex are now and forever inseparable concepts.

      Enlightened societies like Holland and Germany have long ago legalized prostitution, and so should the USA.

    3. Re:Why is prostitution illegal in the first place? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      2. Prostitution is *heavily* associated with human trafficking

      Illegal prostitution is associated with human trafficking. This is a an argument for legalization. Anyway, "human trafficking" is a far smaller problem than commonly believed. It has been wildly exaggerated by law enforcement as an excuse to increase their funding.

      ... a girl being forced to sell her body, rather than wanting to. This is the reason that really matters.

      Again, this is something that is worsened by criminalization. The best cure for coercive prostitution is legalization and regulation.

       

    4. Re:Why is prostitution illegal in the first place? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In many cases, legalising prostitution has increased human trafficking. Legalising prostitution increases the market and increases demand, hence the increase in human trafficking. Not just theory, there are statistics to back this up. [No citation given, do your own homework]

      I believe prostitution should be legal. It's a moral issue: as someone else pointed out, there is no reason to forbid two or more consenting adults to enter into such a transaction. That there are others being forced into it without consent is irrelevant to the morality of the matter: forbidding prostitution on this ground is like forbidding everyone to have sex because rapes do take place. With that said, there may be practical reasons to penalise prostitution: when the vast majority of cases is not consensual, for instance.

      With that said, legalising prostitution also gives law enforcement an opportunity to better police the market. If they take that opportunity, human trafficking can be reduced quite effectively. One way that seems to work well is to make soliciting an unwilling prostitute a punishable offence. Another thing they have done in my country is to change labour and tax laws a bit to make legal prostitution a lot easier and safer, for the johns, the women, and operators of establishments where this takes place. With plenty legal venues and prostitutes on the market and severe penalties for human trafficking, it's no longer very attractive to hire, exploit or solicit an illegal prostitute.

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  3. That is so not absurd. by rmdingler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Instead, automated license plate readers would scan the cars driving down streets known to have a prostitution problem, and the letters would be sent to the address associated with those vehicles.

    Automated iris recognition scanning software should then be used to identify all milk drinkers as children, as a very high percentage of pedophiles drank milk as children.

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  4. WTF? by Etherwalk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are the police insane? So if someone drives down the wrong street because they don't know that you're not supposed to drive down that street, the police are going to ruin their marriage? For that matter, if someone happens to drive to a bar in that neighborhood, the police are going to harass them?

    *Headdesk*

    Also, cue the lawsuit in 3... 2... 1...

    1. Re: WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Marriage is built on trust. Anything that puts a crack in that trust, unfounded or not, can ruin marriages. It all depends on who you're married to and what their reaction is.

    2. Re: WTF? by goose-incarnated · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If a baseless accusation of being a John ruins your marriage, you got bigger problems to worry about. I'd recommend you visit a good divorce attorney tomorrow.

      If a baseless accusation of being paedophile/embezzler/thief/terrorist ruins your employers trust in you, you got bigger problems to worry about.

      (See how that works?)

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    3. Re: WTF? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If a baseless accusation of being a John ruins your marriage, you got bigger problems to worry about. I'd recommend you visit a good divorce attorney tomorrow.

      This isn't just some random guy walking up to a couple and saying "Your husband was seen with a prostitute." This is an official letter from the police. There's (for better or worse) a sense of authority there. People (such as his wife, family, friends, co-workers) will think "they wouldn't be accusing him of that unless there was proof it happened." Even if he denies it, the doubt will still be there. (After all, someone who is guilty would deny it too, right?)

      This could either lead to more problems or worsen existing ones. Perhaps the couple is going through money problems and stress is running high. The husband was supposed to be out looking for work (and was) but now the wife wonders if instead he was spending what little money they have left on prostitutes. Is it rational? No, but people can often be irrational when in the heat of the moment. Something like this could crumble a relationship all because LA is trying to "tackle pre-crime."

      Coming at this from another angle, if it doesn't ruin relationships, it could ruin the reputation of the police department (or what little reputation it has left). If people see these letters as a joke, then any accusation from the police might be seen as false. Actual criminal cases could be impacted because people don't take the police seriously.

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  5. "Flirting" with pre-crime? by CrashPoint · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is a little beyond "flirting" with pre-crime. This is more like taking pre-crime to Bed, Bath and Beyond to pick out curtains for the apartment you and pre-crime are about to move into.

  6. Follow the Money by Princeofcups · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As often is the case, you just have to follow the money trail. Someone paid off someone else to push their expensive license plate scanners and services. The police may not even have wanted to do this, but someone up the chain of command got a free vacation home in the Bahamas for implementing the program. It'll all get swept under the rug soon, after enough uproar.

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  7. Wow, thanks Los Angelos by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been trying come up with a concrete example of how license plate readers could be abused and here we are.

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  8. You assume they want to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Many of the women are actually forced into sex slavery. Someone conned them into immigrating illegally and now holds them captive, forcing them to have sex for money. There are also variations on this where the pimp has them addicted to some drug they supply. So the sex often is not actually consensual.