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Why Electronic Health Records Aren't More Usable (cio.com)

itwbennett writes: There are plenty of things wrong with Electronic Health Records (EHRs), writes Ken Terry. Among them: 'The records are hard to read because they're full of irrelevant boilerplates..., [a]lerts frequently fire for inconsequential reasons..., and EHRs from different vendors are not interoperable with each other.' But those are all just symptoms of the underlying (and unsurprising) problem: '[T]hey are designed to support billing more than patient care.' A recent study (login required) found that, of 41 EHR vendors that released public reports, fewer than half used an industry-standard user-centered design process. This despite a requirement by The Office of the National Coordinator for Health IT that developers perform usability tests as part of a certification process that makes their EHRs eligible for the government's EHR incentive program.

27 of 117 comments (clear)

  1. Uhm, greed? by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They aren't more usable because anyone who deals with them wants to use their own proprietary format, which they of course work with absolutely no other companies to share or interoperate with.

    Until the government steps in and actually does its job, digital records are worthless to the patient.

    This is what happens when companies lobby for stupid laws like we have now ... things like 'requiring X% of your patients use your patient portal ... which means that I don't have a choice any more about my medical records being online ... because now every doctor basically FORCES it ... so they don't get fined for not having X% using their patient portal ...

    Instead what happens is I have fucking spammers calling me about my god damn 2 year old son because my pediatricians shitty web portal had less security than swiss cheese and was hacked, of course it also took involving a lawyer to even get them to admit to the fact they had a damn data breech ...

    And all of this has nothing to do with you getting your records easier, it has to do with companies like AllScrip and its ilk lobbying and buying off congress to get stupid laws passed that do no good to patients but make a fuckton of money for some shitty industry that shouldn't even exist in the first place.

    The reason medical records in digital form are useless is the same reason that Obamacare is a big pile of shit. Its not about the people, its about how entrenched corporations can make more money faster by making you a customer that doesn't have a choice in being a customer, you are required to buy their service no matter how shitty it is.

    Its like your ISP except worse. You can choose to simply not have an ISP. You can not choose to not have your medical records online and you can not choose to not pay for bad insurance.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    1. Re:Uhm, greed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      about my god damn 2 year old son

      Did you try having him baptized?

    2. Re:Uhm, greed? by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      it has to do with companies like AllScrip and its ilk lobbying and buying off congress

      Sounds like the deeper problem, and the solution, would be to somehow BAN all Lobbyists!!!!

      I wonder if there would be any way to do so...without stamping on freedom of speech issues...?

      If nothing else, maybe make the requirement to meet with your congress critter, it HAS to be in their home state, AND it has to be public, no private meetings?

      That, at least...might help...?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:Uhm, greed? by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is real capitalism for you. The model of the books is nice, but the version used in practice is shitty.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    4. Re: Uhm, greed? by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You forgot your medication again?

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    5. Re: Uhm, greed? by BVis · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, he just thinks he's smarter than the Supreme Court and his interpretation of the Constitution is superior.

      The reason that the government sometimes requires people to purchase a product or service is that without a law forcing people to get with the fucking program, we can't move forward as a people. Without helmet laws people wouldn't wear helmets, because they're stupid/cheap/selfish. Without seat belt laws, lots of people wouldn't wear the belts, increasing medical costs for everyone. Without mandatory car insurance, people would get wiped out when some drunken asshole plows into them.

      The problem here is that for-profit companies can participate in our health care system. Their primary function is to make money, not improve patient care. Of COURSE company A is going to push their format which is incompatible with any other because then they lock in their customers, giving them no choice but to pay them ridiculous amounts of money in the future. EHR, done correctly, has distinct advantages, but without being forced to use one specific format by law, we have all this bullshit. So, either the state mandates a format, which I'm sure GP would hate, or we all suffer. But! So long as the "collective" is a thing, this guy won't be happy.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    6. Re:Uhm, greed? by jon3k · · Score: 2

      Healthcare in this country is the opposite of capitalism. It's arguably the most regulated industry in the country.

    7. Re:Uhm, greed? by scamper_22 · · Score: 2

      Actually EMR are shit because of the government... and yes, corporations. I'm in Canada. EMR are still shitty here.

      I worked in the field and got out as soon as I could. It's a whole stinking mess.

      The number one problem is that everyone (government, insurance, scientists...) main concern is easy categorization. It's just a freakin hard problem to solve. If you thought tech standards are hard to create, just imagine EMR.

      Really, if we look at it from a use-case patient perspective.
      What would work is simply this:
      1. A container to hold doctors notes in image/pdf/something format
      2. A medical history of things you'd need to know if you end up in the ER. Current medications/allergies...

      That would have been an amazing starting point. Instead everyone wants to go the big bang approach. The government bureaucrats want to be able to talk about data and attach costs to everything no different than insurance companies.

      Security is shit but overengineered. Oh they want to have all these access levels for different people and privacy commission... but what does it all boil down to in the end?

      EMR industry should exist. It is slowly improving in Canada. I'm finally starting to see blood tests... being sent electronically and what not. They really should have gradually went electronic instead of thinking it was going to be a big bang solve everything approach.

    8. Re: Uhm, greed? by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's the part that's dynamite on paper but doesn't work in the real world.

      So ok, let's see how we got here. Kid gets sick? Send Uncle Henry up the road to fetch the doctor, he makes his diagnosis, take two of these and stop on by in the morning, give the doctor one of the chickens, oh and how has Mrs. McGruder been doing?

      Let's move forward to the era of Progress! Now we have so many wonderful new kinds of medicine. I heard they've even figured out a machine so that will keep Ma alive even after her kidneys have fully failed!

      Oh, gosh. That costs way more than a chicken. Good thing I bought insurance for the whole family.

      This is the point in the tech tree where you unlock Big Negotiators. $insurer figures out that they can negotiate a lower price with the hospital because they have half a million subscribers by threatening the hospital and local docs they'll no longer cover patients at current prices.

      So far so good, right? Well, something doesn't smell right, and this is where it goes completely rotten. $insurer also figures out that they can charge the man off the street an arm and a leg. At this point, we're still at parity with auto insurance.

      No so fast! here comes $big_company who can also pack a wallop in negotiation. Lower the premiums for my employees or I'll switch to $competitor_insurer. Naturally, $big_company wants to use this as a negotiating tactic with employees as well, so $big_company now offers it as a benefit.

      Win-win or are we racing to the bottom yet? As I've mentioned in other posts, since the patient no longer sees the bill, and insurance companies aren't competing for individuals, everybody can just start jacking up their prices. American pay three times what the rest of the developed world does for worse outcomes when taken as a whole. Tragedy of the commons.

      The only legislation that was needed to fix the race-to-the-bottom, must-be-an-employee-to-have-affordable-insurance disease the healthcare system would have been to require insurers to make all of their plans available to the general public on an individual basis, like car insurance (probably exceptions, but I'm not aware of any employer that covers car insurance, nor am I aware of car insurance plans that cover routine maintenance).

      Ah, the do-gooders, the bleeding hearts, and the weak-willed masses that don't understand TANSTAAFL!

      I don't know what to tell you. I'd love to live in a libertarian paradise with you and every other libertarian here on these discussion sites! Honest, hard-working, would never do something like use money to buy votes, critical thinking paragon of virtue are we! (Actually not sure I'm being sarcastic or not.)

      The libertarian paradise is a childish fantasy and utterly unworkable. I'm afraid I'm getting more liberal the older I get.

      Here's my proposal. We need to stop the government from shitting all over the constitution and hold them to that document before we get to that last liberty box only to be used when the other three have failed.

      I get tired of the bogeyman of oh noes! with single payer healthcare you need to wait weeks to see a specialist! Well, you know what, a friend of mine recently transitioned to live as a woman, and the endocrinologist (the one that didn't go "religious objection!" at least) was booked six weeks out. I've already posted my difficulties even finding a GP in another discussion because of "religious objection!" and also "this women's health initiative had to shut down and it's all your fault because you're a man in IT and want to control women's bodies!" The aggregate health outcomes of single payer speak for themselves, and single pay also correct re-aligns the interests of health care providers with the patients' interests.

      Sorry this isn't a libertarian paradise. This is the real world, and that's how the real world works. I don't want you to pay for my sex change or meds, and you probably do something I disapprove of with medical consequences I don't want

    9. Re:Uhm, greed? by mspohr · · Score: 2

      Follow the money.
      The US has an oligarchy controlled by rich people and corporations. They pay for the laws they want.
      Your vote doesn't matter. All politicians (except Bernie) are on the take and will pass any law you want if you pay them.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    10. Re: Uhm, greed? by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When you mix "supply and demand" with "you die if you cannot get one", things can go very, very wrong...

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
  2. No kidding! by Anon-Admin · · Score: 5, Informative

    I am my no means an expert on EHR. However I have dated a couple of RN's and have several in the family.

    What I can say is that who ever develops this crap does not seem to ask the Doctors or RN's how they do there job.

    There was a different 15digit code for every procedure, option, action and the RN had to key each in for every step and often had to click a "yes that is right" box or have a Dr come over and acknowledge that yes that is the correct prescription, etc. Im not talking about new prescriptions, Im talking about standard daily doses given in a care facility.

    In every case it took 3x longer for them to do the computer entry than it did for them to do the job and add written notes to the charts. Every RN I know complains that it is cumbersome, time consuming, and takes away from their time caring for the patients.

    It really reminded me of some of the time keeping systems I have used. Ones where Accounting laid out the system so you had to enter the time code for each task in no smaller than 15min increments and you had to make sure every min of your day was accounted for.

    1. Re:No kidding! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've developed an EHR system for a small clinical company, and one of the biggest hurdles is preventing mistakes. The prompts for, "Yes, that's what I meant to do," are almost necessary because of industry standards like ICD9 (and, fuck, ICD10 now).

      One digit wrong can mean a completely wrong diagnosis, which means completely wrong tests, and completely wrong results. The patient's life can depend on the right information getting in there.

      So, when developing these systems, we have to balance usability vs preventing errors. Once a system becomes too easy to use, people just start whizzing right through it like it's nothing; second nature. That's when they overlook things, like the fact that they entered 129.4 instead of 128.4, which is prettin' similar at a glance.

      It's this way for most applications, and not just EHRs.

      Having worked for three different health organizations, I find that breaking the task apart is more accurate, but also requires more workers. So, now you have to consider privacy and security into the application design. Doctors require as much info about a patient as possible; RNs possibly less; data entry operators (medical translators, included), require far less. And those people at the front desk, the phlebotomist, who collect pee/oral swabs for testing... need far less.

      There are so many factors to consider: reflexes on tests. What to do with positive STD tests (it's required by law in most states that an HIV positive patient is notified directly and almost immediately).

      People think developers of these systems are the problem, but the real issue is two fold, and it has very little to do with accounting. What it has to do with is ensuring people don't fuck things up for a patient to the point that cancer is diagnosed as low cholesterol or something far less severe... and then the patient drops dead a year later... all because someone had the incorrect keystroke, of one-fucking-character.

      Doctor's don't like to spend their time using EHRs because they already know their diagnosis, recorded it on paper, and need to move on to the next patient. They're already pressured, as there is indeed a shortage of doctors, not just other medical professionals / specialists.

      If EHRs are truly going to be fixed, we need a lot more people, and a lot simpler standards and coding systems. The recent ICD-10 standard that was just switched to two months ago... has throw down the fucking gauntlet holding a monkey wrench.

    2. Re:No kidding! by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yup. Some years ago, my ex-wife and daughters were LPN and CNA. A couple of them worked in an elder care facility.
      Proclamation came down from on high that they will be using a new touchscreen system to log patient interactions.

      Said touchscreen was mounted flat to the wall, at a height usable only for someone about 5' 9" or taller. Of COURSE most of these women were not that tall. In addition to the multitude of clicks and verifications to log one scrip or treatment, they literally had to get a stepstool to use the damn thing. Safety? What's that?

    3. Re: No kidding! by sycodon · · Score: 2

      Seems like a perfect opportunity for some kind of AI. Not to diagnose, but check and constrain.

      Why should the pregnancy code be shown or be valid for a 17 year old boy or an 80 year old woman A basic, rules based AI can help catch errors that may not be so obvious because they are one number off, but glaringly obvious because it's impossible or highly unlikely for a patient.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    4. Re:No kidding! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One digit wrong can mean a completely wrong diagnosis, which means completely wrong tests, and completely wrong results. The patient's life can depend on the right information getting in there.

      Sure. But this was true before electronic records too. If nobody asked these questions when filling out paper forms - then the questions are not needed for the digital version either. It is the patients life either way - and it worked before.

      Next, what idiot thought it was a good idea to enter codes anyway? The patient takes a HIV test, not "test 129.4". The patient may need "valium", not "drug #132667". And so on. Codes may have their places in the system's internal workings, but no need to expose that to users. They can select "HIV test" from a pulldown menu, or start typing HIV and have autocompletion. And red lines, if they type gibberish.

    5. Re:No kidding! by painandgreed · · Score: 2

      Yup. Some years ago, my ex-wife and daughters were LPN and CNA. A couple of them worked in an elder care facility. Proclamation came down from on high that they will be using a new touchscreen system to log patient interactions. Said touchscreen was mounted flat to the wall, at a height usable only for someone about 5' 9" or taller. Of COURSE most of these women were not that tall. In addition to the multitude of clicks and verifications to log one scrip or treatment, they literally had to get a stepstool to use the damn thing. Safety? What's that?

      As somebody who deployed those touchscreens, the most likely cause was that engineering was given no or the wrong specs for setting them up, followed closely by some 5'10" doctor wanting it mounted so he could easily use it, and thirdly, but not uncommon, nobody ever bothered to ask for them to be lowered. There we no shortage of times when some nurse would talk about the years of agony on such a set up while I was dealing with another issue, and I'd just pull out a hex wrench and lower everything on the Ergotron track 6" right then and there.

  3. Re:Somebody Asked for Insurance? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

    The models [tomwoods.com] where so-called insurance has been abandoned are where the costs are lower and the care level is higher.

    If you're going to link to a long podcast without a transcript, you ought to at least summarize the point you are trying to make so people don't have to suffer through it. Are you promoting a single-payer system there, or do you have something different in mind?

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  4. When the VA has it right be scared by silas_moeckel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The VA figured out a universal export that others have picked up. But you can not import to most of them.

    Fun issues like well you only see lab work done by x y or z even though that doctors office has the results in there electronic system. For those of us that detest quest it's fun.

    Some you can export calendar events some even have a calendar you can link to. They still insist on robocalling to remind you till you press a button to let them know you got said robocall.

    You can send emails etc, one took more than 30 days to notice the message and get back.

    Healthcare in this country is still working on voicemail and faxes. If the government wants to provide incentives it should be to connect to the provider of the patient's choice for all medical and related scheduling information the existing va blue button XML format is a good basis to start with. Make it clear under the law that all patient records data etc are the patients property and make not be resold etc without explicit consent every time.

    --
    No sir I dont like it.
  5. The real study is here... by VDM · · Score: 2

    The study described in the web page accessible from the login-protected link (which is not the primary source) has been published on the Journal of the American Medical Association: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/ar... (protected too, but at least is the real thing).
    Here the AMA news release about the results, sufficiently informative: http://media.jamanetwork.com/n...

  6. EHR from MD perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Resident MD here and use EHR extensively. They are a royal pain in the ass for even daily users like me to read, due to things like:

    1) Lack of standardized reporting format. There is extensive variability between records from not only different hospitals, but different departments within the hospital. Different companies uses different formats, which of course aren't interoperable (probably by design).

    2) Lack of streamlining for user experience. There is a lot of "unnecessary data" that a user sees, whether you're a physician, nurse, patient, lab, lawyer, etc. Imagine your car's dashboard spewing every OBD sensor data on the dashboard. Is it important? sure or maybe. Does every one need to see every bit of generated data? certainly not.

    3) Lack of instantaneous access. Patients have the right to see their data more easier than: figure out the process for records at each provider > submit a records request at each provider > receive 10-1000 papers > sort through #2). Physicians deserve be able to access their patient's data relatively fast even if the patient went to a different hospital system (say traveled to a different state for thanksgiving), without having to call the office > find out the fax number > fax a request (find the patient to sign the request) > wait for 6 hours to several days while the recipient processes the request. What do you tell the patient while they are waiting in your office? Banks manage to do both #1 secure financial data and #2 make instantaneous transactions, but healthcare IT is lagging.

    The way it currently stands, EHR system is a net negative experience practices, and in some cases outright dangerous (think of missing important information with data overload). The hope among physicians is that as the technology matures, the problems will get worked on and turn EHR into a net positive.

  7. I do this for a living by pr0t0 · · Score: 4, Funny

    There is a standard for transferring medical information between and within medical facilities called HL7, or Health Level 7. It's a fairly simple text protocol with fields designated for particular types of data separated by pipes ( | ). Those fields are sometimes then further divided. This standard is meant to ease the flow of data between disparate systems. Within a hospital you may have a radiology information system (RIS), an EHR or EMR, practice management software, scheduling software, PACS archive, lab software, interface engines, emergency department systems, and a whole host more. These are systems are made by niche companies you've never heard of, and large corporations that everyone's heard of. All of these systems need to talk to each other to some degree.

    Here's the dirty little secret that makes my job more difficult...

    NO ONE FOLLOWS THE STANDARD!

    Seriously. Here's how a call between me and a vendor might go (simplified):

    Me: Where is the scheduled datetime?
    Vendor: It's in field C.
    Me: But that's where the observation datetime should be. So where's the obs time?
    Vendor: Oh that's in field A.
    Me: Field A is for completed datetime. So where that then?
    Vendor: We put that in field B.
    M: Are you messing with me?
    Vendor: Uhhh...no?
    Me: Grrr. Field B is where the scheduled datetime should be!!! Why is it built like this?
    Vendor: Mmmm...not sure. I'll have to check with one of the engineers and get back to you.
    Me: You may want to give them the HL7 specification while you're at it. It's published. Online. Freely accessible. You want the link?

    It'd be like every web browser and web server all agreeing upon a standard markup language, HTML for instance; then each rolling their own version anyway. So Chrome looks for a HEAD tag, but IE calls it the TOP tag, Apache calls it the BEGIN tag, and IIS uses a FRONT tag. You may be thinking, well since IE and IIS are both from Microsoft they wouldn't do that. And my answer would be, you obviously haven't delved into the world of SharePoint.

    --
    I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
    1. Re:I do this for a living by wanchic · · Score: 3, Informative

      OMG, someone else that knows HL7!!!

      Yes, pr0t0, I've been doing this for over 25 years and I have to agree with you for the most part. However, in my line of experience, I've seen some more variations to this example than the one you gave.

      One example is: What is HL7? That's right. Companies with programs that are NOT even familiar with HL7, or an API

      Another example is the different forms of medical practice. When we think of medical, we typically think of a clinical/hospital setting. But there are more cases than that: such as screening, per-screeing, preventative medicine, and mental health.

      A third issue I've run into is the practice of the clinic itself. In other words, they may or may not follow what the HL7 platform dictates, and that makes API and medical meetings very interesting. You don't want to tell a Masters or Ph.D employee that they might be, "doing it wrong." I've ran into this with immunizations, labs, exams, and screenings so many times I've had to just throw my hands up in the air and let the staff fail in order for them to discover the fore-seen problems I tried to warn about prior.

      Personally I'm thankful to have been introduced to HL7 as far back as in the late 90's. It's helped me to not only understand the medical community, but it's helped to shape my programming skills from thinking statically to always thinking dynamically.

    2. Re:I do this for a living by wanchic · · Score: 2

      HL7 was designed in the 80s, way before XML, JSON, or even the Web existed. Don't be so critical. HL7 2.3 is typically the standard and free version. HL7 3+ is actually written in XML format now.

  8. Re:blame the democrats by BVis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    EHR has been a problem for decades. Don't blame this on Obamacare, blame it on the asshole corporations that are more interested in money than patient care. If anything, the problem is that Obamacare lost its public option because Republicans are stupid. The government runs healthcare in most countries, and it can be competently done if people don't fight it based on the fact that their rich CEO buddies wouldn't be able to buy their third summer home should profits go down because they're forced to spend more money on care instead of funnelling it to numbered Cayman Island bank accounts.

    Without those mandates, the insurers would be able to continue to abuse their customers freely. Imagine getting cancer, after paying exorbitant premiums for years, only to find your insurer has cancelled your coverage for no other reason than paying for your treatment would eat into the profits. Imagine getting denied health insurance because you used to have asthma.

    Companies don't do the right thing unless they're forced to - and it's the government's (read: the people's) job to force them to do it. Health insurance is largely insulated from market pressures, so "free market" principles do not apply. I certainly wouldn't pay $850 out of my pay each month (with my employer picking up the other half of my premium) for coverage that didn't pay out a dime until I've spent $5000 out-of-pocket if I had a choice. Yes, I could go to the exchanges, but I'd lose the money that my employer pays towards what I do have - and I make too much money to qualify for subsidies, but not enough where I can pay $1700 a month for health coverage. Without a public option to drive costs down (or force better behavior), this is what we have. Conservatives tore all the value out of the bill and now they're pointing out all the problems that are caused as a result (which were their own doing.) It's like slashing the tires on a car and then complaining that the ride is bad.

    --
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
  9. Re:blame the democrats by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Informative

    It wasn't rammed through, no matter how much spin is spun to portray it that way, the fact is, it was highly debated and discussed over decades. And it was full of compromises and such, and didn't differ greatly from the plans proposed by numerous others. The Republicans just took political cover and refused to stand up and vote for it, so almost all the Democrats did instead.

    Except that, at the last minute, they passed it under reconciliation because Massachusetts elected Scott Brown to the seat that had been held by Ted Kennedy on the platform of being the vote that would block it being passed. The Senate bill did not exactly match the House bill, so the House had to go back and pass it again. I forget the exact shenanigans, but in order to get it passed the House inserted a rider into the bill they voted on that "deemed" part of it as passed without ever voting on that part.

    If that is not ramming the bill through, I am not sure what they would have to do for you to consider a bill rammed through (I am guessing that you would only consider a bill rammed through if the Republicans were putting it through).

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  10. Re:and when the GOP get's there way there use will by wyHunter · · Score: 3, Funny

    Or when the Dems get hold of them and all your records go into a central medical database in Washington. Oh wait, they did that already!! The only solution is never to visit a doctor.