Paris Climate Change Talks Yield First Draft (theguardian.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Negotiators at the UN climate talks in Paris released a draft of an agreement to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions. No part of the draft has been finalized as many points remain in contention, particularly between developing countries and more wealthy nations. Laurence Tubiana, the French envoy for the talks, said: "We could have been better, we could have been worse. The job is not done, we need to apply all intelligence, energy, willingness to compromise and all efforts to come to agreement. Nothing is decided until everything is decided."

Comments

Re:Where's the link to the draft?

[MightyDrunken]

The draft and addendum .

Re:Where's the link to the draft?

[NotDrWho]

I'm too lazy to read it, but does it even MENTION nuclear power? Because any climate change plan that doesn't include nuclear as a major component of a carbon-neutral energy policy isn't worth using as toilet paper.

still advocating for extreme mitigation

[khallow]

I see this in the draft:

To hold the increase in the global average temperature [below 1.5 ÂC] [or] [well below 2 ÂC] above preindustrial levels by ensuring deep reductions in global greenhouse gas [net] emissions; (

They are still emphasizing an extreme effort rather than a rational one. There are three obvious rebuttals to this. First, too many parties simply don't have an interest in this. For example, most oil subsidies come from countries whose economies have a significant dependence on exporting oil. Other large fossil fuel-consuming nations, particularly, the US, China, and India have long expressed disinterest in such levels of reduction.

Second, humanity doesn't generate greenhouse gases arbitrarily. Instead it is in pursuit of other priorities. From past missteps, I see strong indications that any serious attempt to meet the requirements of an extreme mitigation effort will result in a global-scale mess.

Third, we still don't have actual evidence that there is a serious problem. We just have, yet again, strongly worded assertions. It really should be a warning sign to everyone when the people pushing this aggressive strategy can't back their claims with facts.

Re:still advocating for extreme mitigation

[khallow]

Honestly the defeatism and lack of ambition is disheartening.

Good. Are you going to worry about real problems now?

There is plenty of evidence going back decades now that global warming is a serious issue.

Good. Show the seriousness of the problem then. It's worth noting here that no one has yet shown that global warming has short term consequences or that it is an urgent problem. They have merely asserted these things.

It is hard to address but to not even try is a serious dereliction of duty to our descendants. Is this a paid shill?

Because you have yet to show that the extreme mitigation measures proposed are less of a dereliction of duty than doing absolutely nothing is. Remember current mitigation efforts are already remarkably ineffective and costly. We are already doing this and it is already a net loss for our descendants.

But sure, I must be a shill.

Re:Wealthy nations? Where

[khallow]

Nations that have debt have no wealth.

No, it doesn't work that way. While it is worth noting that there is a staggering amount of irresponsible and stupid borrowing at the level of the state, they are able to get away with that because of the wealth of the societies they represent and which they can tap. Even a country like Greece has considerable wealth left. And if they were to reform their governments and societies, that wealth would come forth.

Re:Wealthy nations? Where

[tompaulco]

What wealthy nations? All western governments are deep in debt..

One man is on the street and has nothing.
Another man lives in a house with a mortgage with negative equity and drives a car in which he is upside down on the loan.
Which one is poorer?
I'm not making a point, I think it is a legitimate question and the answer is not an easy one. But it certainly is relatable to nations and debt.