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The Death of Electronic Surplus (hackaday.com)
szczys writes: For hardware developers, electronic surplus stores feel like being a kid in a candy shop. It's hard to walk down an aisle packed floor to ceiling with bins of seemingly-random components without feeling giddy. The wind down of domestic manufacturing, paired with the rise of online parts retailers (think eBay) has led to the shuttering of most electronic surplus shops. But a few of the best are still around. Brandon Dunson takes us on a nostalgic trip through surplus history and a tour of his local electronic surplus store. He brings it home with the saddest part of the trend: the loss of surplus means a loss of culture. Electronic flea markets and surplus stores are a nexus point of talented and interesting people. As they go, so does the opportunity to interact in person with the gurus of electronic development.
was the best surplus back in the day! Made it worth it to get up on Sat morning
But "makers"
d, where you been living, under a rock? This is not a new thing.
As an "old man" I have regaled many of the younger generation with stories of the great times had at the Radial Hall Computer Swap Meet in Omaha Nebraska. It was a fully occupied nut-house, and one of my favorite ways to spend a Saturday.
Where I live, there used to be several brick-and-mortar electronics parts stores where you could pick up a wide variety of parts and supplies; now, aside from the pathetic selection at Fry's, there's absolutely nothing. There also used to be HSC Electronics for surplus, and they're gone from the area as well. The few other independent surplus dealers are also shuttered, years ago. In the SF Bay Area there may or may not be Mike Quinn Electronics (which those of you in the area might have known for building after building of surplus).
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
True, but even here in Dallas we had a great store for PC stuff in Arlingon (Electronic Discount) until May of this year. Sad... However, if you really need it and have cash then eBay is a pretty great substitute.
The old swap meet is no more. That went back to the days when it was held in the Heathkit warehouse parking lot. I do miss wandering the meet in the early hours of the morning getting good used items.
Just recently the last of the big surplus parts stores closed. I remember getting parts for my Commodore 64 from them, bought my first PC from them (A Compaq Desk Pro), Heck I bought a couple of CPM systems from them in the day. They just had a big going out of business sale and closed the doors. It was a loss as I used to wander there isles and get component parts, power supplies, and other jewels. Heck, many of the parts for my 3d printer came from there shelves.
I do miss the old surplus parts stores, guess there was not enough business to keep them going.
We run an electronics recycling company which is about 20% reuse and 80% scrap recycling. Whenever we set aside vintage and antiques for posterity we face a bickering match with state environmental staff who say we are "speculatively accumulating waste". We show the throughput, that it's 97% of incoming tonnage is either recycled or sold for reuse, but after 15 years the antiques take more floorspace. IBM 85XX PS/2 monochrome CRT monitors, which I was drowning in my first years in business, now sell as collectors items on ebay for $150... my main regret is I didn't "speculatively accumulate" a greater percentage than I did.
Gently reply
ITAR export restrictions have killed the likes of Boeing Surplus. I bought the main honeycomb aluminum panel in used in the AWACs strut at per pound scrap prices. And for other items, its been 10 a dozen years, but I remember haunting the Akiabara and finding boatloads of TV components going back to tubes. I also remember buying core memory arrays from Cascade Surplus in Portland. So much is lost....
It was like an archaeological dig. You could see all the technology by era. 50's vacuum tubes, 60's discrete solid state components, 70's ic's, ...
Surface mount technology was the beginning of the end. A lot harder to reuse that stuff.
The real killer of surplus was the recessions. Manufacturing got a lot smarter and leaner. No more manufacturing overruns numbering in the hundreds or thousands.
Fun while it lasted. You could pick up precision linear potentiometers from the 60's for about a buck a piece which seemed like a bargain until you found out they were pretty well oxidized and definitely not linear any more. But other stuff was definitely a good deal. Brand new 100:1 planetary gear reducer for 2 dollars, catalog price in 70's dollars, 200 dollars. Lot of stuff like that.
We used to have at least half a dozen. Mock electronics, Webb electronics, W&W electronics, Austin Electronics, plus a few upstarts that only hung around for a while. They are all gone, every single one of them along with all the Radioshacks.
However, many things in the electronic hobby world are better then ever. Parts are CHEAP these days. I can buy brand new entire reels of resistors and capacitors for a couple of bucks. There are many dedicated surplus catalogs not to mention eBay. The stuff in the brick and mortar stores was interesting, but it was also over priced.
I do miss the SMELL of those places.
I save most broken or outdated electronics in my garage. It's come in useful for electronics projects or repairs. I've got about 50 vacuum tubes, ICs, almost everything electronic you can think of.
That was always one of my favorite things about hamfests - not the commercial vendors with their shiny new rigs I couldn't afford - but the flea market out back full of every kind of electronic gadget you could think of.
Better known as 318230.
A DC native, I fondly remember SASCO on King St. in old town Alexandria. Government surplus electronic stuff, s-100 cards, wonderful MIL-SPEC knobs, hardware and meters, any of which would have cost the gummint a fortune in taxpayer funds, bespoke many-pin connectors with huge cables, and tons of "God only knows what that was!" stuff. Wish it was still there; gone now for decades.
I browsed the surplus tables at a recent hamfest, but the junk is less interesting, more Chinese monoculture cheap shit, and acres and acres of grey hair and wrinkles: who will be running these in a decade?
That's, um, not really the sort of goal I had in mind when I gravitated toward this hobby. In fact, the hobby provided a respite from trying to deal with people.
http://www.weirdstuff.com/
PolyPaks on Route 128, Eli Heffron in Cambridge, Atlantic Surplus Sales in Brooklyn, Fair Radio Sales, Grossmans in Braintree with the Sherman tanks visible from the expressway, Military Surplus stores with REAL US surplus, not junk like nowadays. It was a wonderland in the 1950s. I still have 2 pristine thick steel shiny new Navy 20 mm ammo boxes, about 14x14x18 inches, from those days. The tops have 4 perimeter clamps and easily lift right off when you unclamp them. Not the crappy stupid-size thin steel army ammo boxes with the hinged top that requires superhuman strength to open, like you usually see.
Surplus has changed, but it still exists in manufacturing areas. But it's not the type of surplus store you used to see. The HuaQiangBei area in Shenzen is the new surplus store. It's primarily rolls of SM tech that is suitable for Pick and Place equipment. Because that's where the manufacturing is at. The surplus around Shenzen is actually really cool.
With miniaturization, and on-demand prototyping, the need for companies to have surplus enthusiast level stuff is way down. You do electronic layout, send it to a low volume prototyping company and they will then send it back to you in a few days/weeks. Even those prototyping stores will only surplus unusual items, with standard items being shared across different customers.
The prototyping with with non-SMT is getting kind of rare. Hell, I have seen anyone even consider Wirewrap. These days a lot of prototyping is built around microcontroller and sample boards for ASICs. And the glue between the logic boards are a few resistors or capacitors.
Still have one where I live. It's right next to the surplus store for horse buggy whips and it has a genuine haberdasher inside who'll fit you for a nice bowler for one strawpenny.
Visit your local surplus stores and buy stuff. Let's keep these places in business.
Or when traveling. If you go to Orlando, you should visit Skycraft. You can spend a long time browsing in there. And buy stuff the TSA is never gonna let you take on the plane.
ESS in Manchester NH is a good place for some odd stuff, too.
And as one other poster mentioned, there are a lot of components and other oddities to be had at hamfests, especially the bigger ones.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
Why do people keep using 'shuttering' like it means 'shutting down'? Maybe these shops are just putting on nice shutters so they can close up for the night or keep the sun out on a hot day.
It's one of those colourful words that someone clever used once as a descriptive a few years ago, then all of a sudden, every one is using it as if there is specific definition. It's up there with then/than, could/couldn't care less, beg's/raises the question, and literally/figuratively. Just sounds wrong and something people say to sound clever when it just makes them sound stupid.
End rant.
What in the actual fuck are you talking about?
There is no such thing: https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=2QAN
Least of all with US production of computers, semi-conductors and electronics.
It's lack of market that has killed these "surplus houses" a.k.a. junk yards. The same lack of market is killing/killed Radio Shack.
Domestic manufacturing has nothing to do with it, the junk yards are for recycled junk. Speaking of recycled, e-waste recyclers are stepping up their games and taking a good bit of the junk, recycling components and extracting metals.
But, the biggest thing is that there is no market for surplus or recycled components. Nobody(consumers) wants that junk. The few people that do make their own stuff buy new components and it's cheap! You want do to a one off project, get the components form China or local on eBay for cheap. Feeling lazy, go to SparkFun.com. You want to do volume, then go to a distributor like DigiKey.com.
Junk yards are for junk. Nobody wants junk.
This place, NextStep is where I got the flat screen monitor I'm looking at right now. I was looking for a long ethernet cable last week and went to the recycling office first by mistake where I discovered a room full of young people from disadvantaged families being trained (and paid) to test and/or disassemble computers and various other stuff. The volunteer supervisor directed me to the store. I think that's pretty cool.
Fifty years of Yippie! 1968-2018
Back in 1990s a documentary by Robert Cringely featured Halted (or was it HSC) in Mountain View, CA where it shows a teenage boy examining surplus computers and other electronics. Cringely talks about how some of these teenagers will become the next Silicon Valley entrepreneurs.
mfwright@batnet.com
My local hackerspace receives plenty of surplus, for free. Incidentally, it is also full of talented and interesting people.
C&H Surplus had a wonderful store on an increasingly pricey stretch of Colorado Blvd. in Pasadena, CA, but had to relocate several miles east as rents and property values increased. Its former proximity to Caltech and JPL (and sundry assorted neighborhood subcontractors) yielded up tons and aisle after aisle of high grade test equipment, massive power supplies, relay racks, and who-knows-what. I remember getting into a yelling match with my mom (40 years ago) that a hulking Tektronix oscilloscope I picked up was not a "television" (which I was not allowed to have in my bedroom!) After a little cosmetic work, I ended up selling it for a small profit -- to a bigger geek than I was/am.
ah, walking down memory lane . . . .
Are we back in the 80s? The main reason they don't have them any more is because people don't use them any more, analog circuits are a relic of a previous time. People have moved on to digital circuits; buy a Raspberry Pi or an Arduino.
It really is amazing. Today, a 12 inch wafer can be processed for under $10,000. That processing produces hundreds of billions of transistors, wires, resistors, and other stuff. Why bother with assembling circuits? You could (theoretically) buy a chip with a 100 CPUs on it, and simulate any circuit you want. People waste gigaflops on watching cat videos. Nuclear weapon simulations were done on less power. The Saturn V had less CPU power than a classic ipod. Why bother with analog stuff when digital can do so much, for so little?
"Electronic flea markets and surplus stores are a nexus point of talented and interesting people."
Interesting? A polite way to suggest 'eccentric' at best and more likely 'anti social' or possibly criminally insane. The 'talent' is most likely used for planting spy devices at the house of the girl next door, blowing up his high school or electrocuting cats. Bathing and brushing not spoken here.
So I'm an old guy. Older than you. I had my fun and still visit a couple surplus stores. The nearest one is run by a mean old fart who doesn't really want to sell his stuff. But you can have the nostalgia. I like what's happening now in electronics, communication and bioengineering. I look forward to the future and don't dwell on the past. Let's create new stuff that will captivate the 'talented and interesting people' of the future.
...omphaloskepsis often...
All around the country, amateur radio operators hold HAMfests. http://www.arrl.org/hamfests-a... These too have been declining in numbers and they have less and less radio gear and more swap meet junk. But, I go to them and you will find old electronics, parts, computers, radios, and if course junk. The bigger events will have commercial booths as well selling electronic parts, radios, and computers. Most of the attendees are ham radio types. The events almost always offer radio license exams for a small fee. The FCC license is for transmission in the amateur frequencies. Modern amateur radios have digital interfaces and operating modes. There is an admission charge as these events are fund raisers for the radio club sponsors.
There's still http://www.allelectronics.com/ I used to like browsing there when I was in high school. I'm 67 now.
I can still remember being led around by older relatives in the "war surplus" stores as they were always called in the Fifties in big-city downtowns, agog at the piles of vacuum tubes, ammo boxes and arcane chunks of militaria that required cobbling up a 28V power supply to operate. Later these became discount electronic stores ("Look! Japanese made radios!").
One fork of this evolutionary chain became Radio Shack - real Radio Shack, festooned with ham gear, and electronic supermarkets like Fry's; the other begat the electronic flea market where hobbyists enthusiastically rummaged through stacks of used technojunk and walls of printed manuals. The last time I visited one of these was in the Nineties. It was in the rain in Tempe, Arizona, the last few weary radio hams nosing through it on Rascal scooters, sucking oxygen through masks like Darth Vader and bleary-eyed for the old days.
Before you die, you have to go to Akihabara.
It's the electronics trading district of downtown Tokyo. Imagine a crammed complex of skinny Asian buildings all grown together, served by a twisty maze of tiny alleys and rickety stairways where every possible kind of tech is on sale in an authentic Blade Runner atmosphere (I think Akihabara is where the idea came from). You can find anything from arcane hobby parts to household appliances there. I wouldn't be surprised if there are replicants on sale there now.
While in Jr High School, (1963-1965), in San Diego, CA, I usually walked home, and on the way was a seriously cool store, by the name of Acro Sales. It had tons of vacumn tubes, WWII comm gear, and misc discrete parts up the wazoo.. Usually walked home with some friends/fellow geeks, and we'd regularly stop at the store for a bit on the way home.. For those who know San Diego, specfically East San Diego, the store was on University Avenue, between 41st Street and what is now the trench in the ground that carries Interstate 15... As I recall it didn't last much later than around 1970... They don't make em like that anymore...
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
Back in the late 1970's and maybe into the early 1980's there was a surplus electronics store on the north east side of Atlanta that I went to many Saturday mornings. It was an amazing place and full of what may have been at that time one of the strangest mix of people shopping for junk. Of course many of the local Hams were there, and often a few engineers from some of the local electronics and computer companies that sprang up in the Silicon Hill area North East of Atlanta, but this particular place also attracted the roadies from several of the fairly popular rock bands that also made their home in the area. Try to visualize the scene with the corporate engineers in white button down shirts (ties were usually off on Saturday morning) and pocket protectors in their shirts, mixed with the Hams in anything from casual clothes to Jeans or Shorts and T-Shirts, and then there were the roadies who stood out from the rest since many stopped by on their way to the biker bar down the street before it opened for the day. Everyone helping everyone else find the part they were looking for or with suggestions and advice on the project they were working on. A wonderful place, a wonderful time and wonderful memories.
If we want to keep these places open we need to shop and buy things from them. New makers might not know all these treasure troves exist. Why not put up a website that lists all the surplus shops state by state with the ability for people to add the names of stores near them. Letting others know where these places are will help them to stay in business. For those that see the items for sale in these places as worthless junk, know that some people have the skill and knowledge to craft amazing things from them. Browsing the aisles in these places brings ideas for new projects or different ways to solve a problem at hand. I recently travelled to the twin cites and visited the surplus stores there. Sadly, AEI Surplus closed, with a note that their remaining items were sold to Ax-Man Surplus. Anyone know of any surplus stores in the DC area?
Halted, Ace, Anchor. There are a few still here in the San Jose area. I really would like Blue Collar Supply of Sacramento to open an outlet here. Bolts and nuts by the pound super cheap. Triangle Machinery closed a long time ago here for metal stuff though Alan Steel in Redwood City is still around for steel and aluminum.
"No User Serviceable Parts", most egregiously where you either cannot or have "signed" an "agreement" that you cannot change things or open things up. There used to be a huge number of things you could or would want to use those small parts for. Heck, even a pack of varied common resistors would be damn useful if you had some cheap electronics, since the resistors or capacitors would fubar at some point. Now they claim you can't even open the damn thing up or face a court case.
And not being able to look (and having 27 different types of proprietary "keep out" screw heads to stop it) means you won't ever be able to learn to start on self help here.
Poly-paks
weirdstuff warehouse
weirdstuffwarehouse.com
google it..
Radio Shack's wet dream
my automobile ownership during grad school was only made possible by the existence of do it yourself garages where you could rent a bay and access to various tools for $2 an hour. the advice from other customers was free.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
I can still remember being led around by older relatives in the "war surplus" stores as they were always called in the Fifties in big-city downtowns, agog at the piles of vacuum tubes, ammo boxes and arcane chunks of militaria that required cobbling up a 28V power supply to operate. Later these became discount electronic stores ("Look! Japanese made radios!").
One fork of this evolutionary chain became Radio Shack - real Radio Shack, festooned with ham gear, and electronic supermarkets like Fry's; the other begat the electronic flea market where hobbyists enthusiastically rummaged through stacks of used technojunk and walls of printed manuals. The last time I visited one of these was in the Nineties. It was in the rain in Tempe, Arizona, the last few weary radio hams nosing through it on Rascal scooters, sucking oxygen through masks like Darth Vader and bleary-eyed for the old days.
still have my prize war surplus finds, a big pile of old air force electronics that require 400hz ac power. carbon button throat mikes. 24/250 volt dynamotors.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
I can still remember being led around by older relatives in the "war surplus" stores as they were always called in the Fifties in big-city downtowns, agog at the piles of vacuum tubes, ammo boxes and arcane chunks of militaria that required cobbling up a 28V power supply to operate. Later these became discount electronic stores ("Look! Japanese made radios!").
One fork of this evolutionary chain became Radio Shack - real Radio Shack, festooned with ham gear, and electronic supermarkets like Fry's; the other begat the electronic flea market where hobbyists enthusiastically rummaged through stacks of used technojunk and walls of printed manuals. The last time I visited one of these was in the Nineties. It was in the rain in Tempe, Arizona, the last few weary radio hams nosing through it on Rascal scooters, sucking oxygen through masks like Darth Vader and bleary-eyed for the old days.
wonder what percentage of them had the tail of a fighter plane poking out of the roof...
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.