Flint, Michigan Declares State of Emergency Over Lead In Children's Blood (washingtonpost.com)

schwit1 writes: The Hurley Medical Center in Flint, Michigan released a study in September that confirmed what many Flint parents had feared for over a year: The proportion of infants and children with above-average levels of lead in their blood has nearly doubled since the city switched from the Detroit water system to using the Flint River as its water source, in 2014. "City officials have also said the use of corrosive Flint River water also damaged Flint's water infrastructure after state regulators never required the river water be treated to make it less corrosive." FEMA is now supplying bottled water to the city.

Comments

Its always someone else's problem

[DarkOx]

FEMA is now supplying bottled water to the city.

So the locals elect a government, that decides to cheap out and not pay Detroit for safe treated water. They further device to cheap out and not treat the river water, known to be polluted, and screw up their infrastructure in the process.

Now you and I have have to pay to provide them all with bottled water? I realize it probably is a drop in the bucket but WTF? I say locals made their bed and now should lay in it. I am sure they enjoyed lower taxes or got to allocate that money to something else they wanted and enjoyed. They then stick us with the bill for their drinking water.

If they need to buy potable water there is place they can get, its called WalMart! They have a fabulous nation wide distribution system, and the CocaCola company and others are ready and able to feed it with safe good tasting bottled water.

Re:Its always someone else's problem

[MightyMartian]

Shouldn't the people who polluted the river bear some of the blame?

But of course, someone made fucking boatloads of money back in the day. That is untouchable. But boy, the victims of that activity, why they're stupid and deserve what they get!

I think in the future we should just declare large corporations and wealthy people to be gods, and gratefully drink the urine as a demonstration of how they deserve absolute, permanent and infinite immunity from their wrongdoing. Indeed, we should make it an executable offence to even suggest that a large corporate interest ever did anything wrong. People should have their organs cut out for daring to attack commercial interests, and, of course, all environmentalists should be burned alive. America is for the super rich, and everyone else can go get fucked.

Re:Its always someone else's problem

[HornWumpus]

Tell us more of Flints election process. How do outsiders get to vote?

None of what you say changes basic facts on the ground. They made a mess and now the feds are picking up the tab.

Are 'rich mother fuckers' also responsible for the broken governments in DC, Detroit, Philadelphia, East St. Louis?

Re:Its always someone else's problem

[ShanghaiBill]

Now you and I have have to pay to provide them all with bottled water?

That is a lot cheaper than paying for all the police and prisons that will be required if we let kids get poisoned with lead. Lead causes a significant drop in IQ and a rise in violent anti-social behavior. Getting lead out of our kids' blood is one the most cost effective public health measures imaginable.

Re:Its always someone else's problem

[Grishnakh]

Please explain how poor people are prevented from voting and rich people who are non-residents can vote in local elections. That goes counter to every election system I've ever heard of.

Re:Its always someone else's problem

[Tailhook]

Shouldn't the people who polluted the river bear some of the blame?

The lead isn't coming from waste. The river water is acidic and leeching lead from the plumbing. The largest contributor of acid to the river is decaying plant matter; leaves and whatnot. There is a lot of that in Michigan and inland water frequently has high PH levels.

But nice corporate hate rant. You've been trained well. The city of Flint — 100% anti-business Democrat since Johnson — ruins its own water supply and it's somehow the fault of "corporations."

Re:Its always someone else's problem

[geoskd]

Shouldn't the people who polluted the river bear some of the blame?

It's not the river water that’s polluted per se. The river water is fairly corrosive, a condition which does happen naturally, or could be the result of pollution of some kind. The river water by itself is safe to drink. The problem is that the city water infrastructure is built with a large amount of lead piping. The city’s homes also have a huge number of lead fixtures, lead fittings, and lead solder. The root cause is simply a refusal to dig up and replace all that dangerous piping in the ground and replace it. The Detroit water had hidden the problem by virtue of that fact that lake Huron water is not very corrosive, so it didn't dissolve nearly as much lead...

Re:Its always someone else's problem

[ShanghaiBill]

If low IQ and poverty were related ...

Low IQ and poverty are strongly correlated. Just because the correlation isn't 1.0, doesn't mean there is no relationship. Sure, a few dumb people get rich, but most don't.

Re:Its always someone else's problem

[squiggleslash]

So... just to be clear...

You are in favor of intentionally poisoning children with a metal that will almost certainly cause permanent brain damage, because a majority of the adults in the same city they live in might have, many decades ago (in the vast majority of cases cases being grandparents of the children concerned, or else unrelated), mistrusted the wrong people the least to manage their city's finances?

You're in favor of that?

This is why I often lose faith in humanity.

Re:Its always someone else's problem

[rsborg]

So the locals elect a government

They probably didn't. A lot of cities in MI are ruled by Emergency Managers, and the locally elected officials have no power at all.

How many emergency managers were in place before Gov. Snyder (GOP)?

Re:state regulators "never required"

[Anonymous Coward]

They need to drag "state" regulators into this because you can't pin anything the government of Flint does on Republicans.

Re:Question is what the source is...

[Zak3056]

IIRC, the water is not (especially) polluted. The problem is that the water is leaching lead and other contaminants out of the pipes. The Detriot water was, apparently, not so hard on the distribution system, hence why the river water is the problem.

I agree with your closing: this is a really shitty set of circumstances, and the partisans really aren't helping. "Blame the democrats, they own the government," and "blame the Republicans, they appointed the emergency management that changed the water source" really ignores the people getting screwed here, and gives a free pass to the previous leadership (of whatever party) that failed to invest in infrastructure that doesn't poison you.

Re:Interesting comment in TFA

[MobyDisk]

Public Act 436, that, as an appropriation, is referendum proof.

Whoops! Looks like they need to amend their state constitution. Or take this to the Michigan Supreme Court. Their constitution says:

The people reserve to themselves the power to propose laws and to enact and reject laws, called the initiative, and the power to approve or reject laws enacted by the legislature, called the referendum. The power of initiative extends only to laws which the legislature may enact under this constitution. The power of referendum does not extend to acts making appropriations for state institutions or to meet deficiencies in state funds

I doubt that the writers of the Michigan state constitution meant that legislators could add "...and the state will buy a candy cane" to their laws and have them be referendum-proof. It seems more likely that an appropriations bill was meant to have nothing but appropriations in them. Combining appropriations with other laws blurs the definition of an appropriations bill. I bet there is a good chance the Michigan Supreme Court would either strike down the law, or allow a referendum to proceed against the portions of the bill that are not appropriations.

Re:Question is what the source is...

[AthanasiusKircher]

Lead solder was not legal for plumbing in 1960.

You may want to know what you're talking about before writing derogatory messages against another post. Lead solder wasn't effectively banned in new construction until the Clean Water Act of 1986. Some local laws may have been in effect earlier, but it's certainly possible to find lead solder in old houses.

Silver solder is not that expensive, it's not pure silver.

Yes, obviously, but lead solder was cheaper, more standard, and more durable than many alternatives for decades. It was still widely used until it was effectively banned -- particularly by low-cost contractors who built cheaper houses or installed cheaper systems.

Further most plumbing has an expected life of 40-50 years. After that it's limed up and has to be replaced. Depends on the local water.

Guess you haven't heard about all the situations with actual lead PIPES still in old houses from a century ago. Small house pipes often need to periodically redone, but the large supply pipes and connectors to city systems often were made with lead pipes years ago, and many cities still have a lot of them in use. They're often very expensive to replace for a whole city, and poorer cities likely can't afford it. Read the water safety standards sometime -- lead concentration safety is usually measured after water has been flowing for a couple minutes, because in many older houses and older cities it takes that long to clear out the water that's been sitting there and leaching lead, copper, and other things... from lead solder, and perhaps even large old lead pipes.

Re:Interesting comment in TFA

[compro01]

I bet there is a good chance the Michigan Supreme Court would either strike down the law, or allow a referendum to proceed against the portions of the bill that are not appropriations.

A court that is 7/9 Republican and 3/9 Snyder-appointed? Good luck with that.

Re:state regulators "never required"

[quetwo]

Except, the state, and it's republican government took over the city because they passed a law saying their finances weren't in order. The governor (Snyder) appointed a "EFM" to manage the city. One of his decisions was to no longer purchase water from the metro Detroit system (rumor has it, that they wanted to punish Detroit and make it less financially solvent by removing one of the larger water purchasers), and use the very old connections to the Flint River. The EPA sent up red flags immediately, but it got tied up in court until a few months ago. In the mean time, FEMA, the Salvation Army and many others have been delivering bottled water to schools and other community centers so people wouldn't be poisoned by the water they were buying (and being provided by in the schools, etc).

The amount they saved switching to the Flint River was less than 1%.... but with this entire debacle, the city will owe so much more money because the acidic river (which, by the way was found to be heavily polluted due to run-off from neighboring cities), managed to eat many of their already crumbling infrastructure.

But go ahead, play politics you don't know about and blame the democrats on this one. Hope it makes you feel better.

Re:Question is what the source is...

[mvdwege]

Oh yes, the Unions, that were responsible for the horrid 70s designs that the American car industry couldn't sell except by hobbling the competition with tarrifs.