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Degradation of Lithium Batteries Shown In Real-time (ucl.ac.uk)

Posted by Soulskill on from the what-the-inside-of-your-crappy-cell-phone-battery-looks-like dept.

hypnosec writes: High-Speed Operando Tomography and Digital Volume Correlation have been used by a University College London-led team to show in real-time how lithium batteries degrade as they are used. Real-time 3D images of active, commercial Li/MnO2 disposable batteries were captured using X-ray computed tomography (CT) and advanced digital volume correlation software. The images formed cross-section time-lapse videos showing the damage occurring on the electrodes inside the battery in real-time.

58 comments

  1. Sure Jan by Fwipp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "The images formed cross-section time-lapse videos showing the damage occurring on the electrodes inside the battery in real-time."

    Not sure the editors know what words are.

    1. Re:Sure Jan by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      Not sure the editors know what words are.

      Mean, but funny.

    2. Re:Sure Jan by Dan+East · · Score: 1

      Great minds think alike. I was about to make a sarcastic post to the same effect. The entire point is NOT showing it in real-time, which would take weeks to watch.

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    3. Re: Sure Jan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not contradictory. The damage is happening in real-time; it's just very slow by human perception. The video uses time-lapse to make it viewable by humans.

      To reiterate: the "real-time" reference is to the damage process, not the video technique. The "time-lapse" reference is to the video technique, not the damage process.

    4. Re: Sure Jan by outriding9800 · · Score: 1

      You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means

    5. Re: Sure Jan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disposable batteries ought to be illegal. They are an unnecessary technology in the age of mass produced rechargeables, and they are ruinous for the environment. They are also a huge waste of non renewable resources.

    6. Re: Sure Jan by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      Yeah, don't yhey degrade over the course of years? That would be a boring video!

    7. Re: Sure Jan by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

      Show me a rechargeable battery that will power my smoke alarm for 10 years.

    8. Re:Sure Jan by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      If you are going to be so fussy, keep in mind, all captured images are time lapse done in real time, no matter how short the duration of the image capture. To claim otherwise is to claim the capture of an image of a single photon, the very first photon to interact with the image capture device.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    9. Re: Sure Jan by x0ra · · Score: 1

      look in my pants, nuclear power inside !

    10. Re: Sure Jan by binarybum · · Score: 1

      http://www.amazon.com/Ultralif...

      but they are crap - it's a lie, they don't last that long - lawsuit waiting to happen, better to keep on throwing out batteries and putting new ones in each year like our grandparents did.

      --
      ôó
    11. Re: Sure Jan by binarybum · · Score: 1

      you must be a lawyer or a politician with that kind of defense.

      --
      ôó
    12. Re:Sure Jan by quenda · · Score: 1

      Not sure the editors know what words are.

      Inconceivable!!

    13. Re: Sure Jan by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Everything real happens in real time. There isn't much choice.

    14. Re:Sure Jan by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Not really. A typical video shows images in real time: the time separating the showing of each frame is equal to the time separating their acquisition. Although an individual part of a frame might be shown slightly before or after it should be, the defining characteristic is that the interval is correct on *average*, over a perceptibly insignificant timescale.

      If the interval, on average, is longer than real time, we call it slow motion. If it's shorter, time lapse.

    15. Re:Sure Jan by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0

      You sound like an idiot. Obviously, everything happens in real time, as opposed to fake time. (Though Real time isn't the same as realtime, BTW.). It says it is shown in Real-Time. It clearly isn't. It is shown in a time-lapse format.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    16. Re: Sure Jan by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      So what is shown in reference to, moron?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    17. Re:Sure Jan by msauve · · Score: 1

      "Time lapse" doesn't mean what you think it means.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    18. Re:Sure Jan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure the editors know what words are.

      They know what words are, they just don't know what they mean or how to arrange them into coherent sentences.

    19. Re: Sure Jan by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      They just shouldn't be considered to be "disposable". Here in Belgium there are recycling boxes in many stores, and people are encouraged to use them. Not perfect, but certainly a lot better than throwing them away. And they do last a lot longer than a single charge on a recyclable battery, making them more convenient to use. Pop one into the remote control, and you're good for several years. Better than having to recharge them every few months.

    20. Re: Sure Jan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sealing rechargeable batteries inside, say, an iPhone ought to also be illegal. That encourages a huge amount of toxic waste as well

    21. Re: Sure Jan by blippo · · Score: 1

      I just replaced one of those "10-year" 9v batteries in my smoke alarm. I doubt it's been there for more than two years. Probably less, but I can't remember exactly.

    22. Re: Sure Jan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? So you can lose the charger by the time it's time to charge them?

    23. Re: Sure Jan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Show me an alkaline 9v that will power my smoke alarm for 10 years.

      Seriously, please do. I've been in this apartment for 4 years and have replaced the batteries at least 5 times and I get woken up at three AM by the fucking chirping noise and there's no place nearby to buy a god damn battery that's open for another 5 hours.

    24. Re: Sure Jan by rhodium_mir · · Score: 1

      Haven't you heard? They start degrading in as little as two weeks!

      --
      You can't spell "oneiromancy" without "roman".
    25. Re: Sure Jan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pull the battery out. Don't start a fire. Simple.

    26. Re: Sure Jan by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      you're like a walking advent calendar...

    27. Re: Sure Jan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buy good quality, don't buy crappy cheap smoke alarms and/or batteries.... I have some which are sold with a non-replaceable 10yr battery built-in. It's been 3 years now, and I hope the company knows what they do and not risk going out of business. Except that's their scam-strategy which I don't hope...
      It's the Ei650 (sold here in europe..)

  2. I don't see nuthin' in the video by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'nuff said.

    1. Re:I don't see nuthin' in the video by Dwedit · · Score: 2

      Compare the first frame and the last frame, the white things got smaller.

    2. Re:I don't see nuthin' in the video by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some parts grew in thickness and formed cracks

    3. Re:I don't see nuthin' in the video by DesertNomad · · Score: 2

      And the black things got bigger - them's the voids and they's bad

    4. Re:I don't see nuthin' in the video by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Stop! This level of technical jargon is beyond my ken!

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    5. Re: I don't see nuthin' in the video by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who's Ken?

    6. Re:I don't see nuthin' in the video by penguinoid · · Score: 2

      Stop! This level of technical jargon is beyond my ken!

      He should ask Barbie for help.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    7. Re:I don't see nuthin' in the video by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      But why male models?

    8. Re:I don't see nuthin' in the video by KGIII · · Score: 1

      That took me longer to get than it should have. :/

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    9. Re: I don't see nuthin' in the video by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I know, I know... But, I'll answer anyhow.

      http://www.thefreedictionary.c...

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  3. Can't wait for solid-state batteries by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That is, until those are commercialized and become affordable for common uses.

    So many issues with today's 'wet' batteries result from having a liquid electrolyte where particles move around, distance between electrodes may very somewhat (locally, at least), substances can dissolve in one place and deposit elsewhere (or form structures that cause a short circuit), electrolyte slowly escapes through a cells' sealing or (potentially) bursts into a cloud of smoke & fire when cell is abused, etc, etc.

    Move to a construction that consists entirely of solid materials, and you get more capacitor-like behavior: vastly increased # of charge/discharge cycles, possible to make much safer, wider temperature range, potentially high capacity and/or power density, short charging times, less degradation when stored in discharged condition, etc. To top it of, perhaps lower cost as well.

    Would be good to have an article about current state of the art in this area.

    1. Re:Can't wait for solid-state batteries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better yet, miniature thermonuclear generators the size of a coin battery that will power a whole house.

    2. Re: Can't wait for solid-state batteries by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Super capacitors that are reliable and affordable are still a holy grail from what I understand. The promise being fast charge time and high capacity. Actually that high-capacity thing is also a challenge, since you don't want millions of volts all discharging in one shot, due to failure or accident.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    3. Re: Can't wait for solid-state batteries by Dereck1701 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Super-capacitors are already extremely reliable and affordable, the problem is they can't really store a whole lot of power at present. They are used in some trucking applications in tandem with standard lead acid batteries. Some also have a minor issue with self discharging, but if their capacity could be brought up to battery levels and that self discharge limited they would likely have a major impact on the battery market. They virtually don't degrade (1 million charge/discharge cycles without degradation have been shown), they can charge very quickly and they are very simple (which should make them cheap).

    4. Re: Can't wait for solid-state batteries by nuckfuts · · Score: 1

      There is no reason high capacity would need to involve "millions of volts". Voltage does not equal storage capacity. Consider static electricity, which can involve very high voltages but very little actual power.

      Also, very high voltages aren't a good idea with capacitors because they result in more leakage across whatever dielectric is used.

    5. Re:Can't wait for solid-state batteries by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      Better yet, miniature thermonuclear generators the size of a coin battery that will power a whole house.

      They already have a coin battery that can power the whole house, in a rural village in Africa.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    6. Re: Can't wait for solid-state batteries by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      You must have missed the youtube video of cleetus out in Kentucky building a car battery the size of a can of Spam out of six D-cell ultracapacitors for under $100.
       
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    7. Re:Can't wait for solid-state batteries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best super caps can't match lithiumIon in energy and power density. But I agree that solid state are very interesting.

    8. Re: Can't wait for solid-state batteries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You cannot store power. You did mean energy, didn't you ?

    9. Re: Can't wait for solid-state batteries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course you can store power, like this.

    10. Re: Can't wait for solid-state batteries by caseih · · Score: 1

      Yeah it definitely works, and they do produce enough amps and volts in the short term to crank an engine. However there's no way they can store the same number of amp-hours as a lead-acid battery.

      Also they put a huge amount of strain on the alternator as they will draw a lot more amps charging rapidly than a lead acid battery typically does.

      There are reasons why super capacitors aren't in widespread use in cars as a replacement for batteries, though they still hold some promise as an assistive technology.

    11. Re: Can't wait for solid-state batteries by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Voltage does not equal storage capacity.

      It does for capacitors. Capacitors store energy as a field charge, and that charge is directly proportional to the amount of energy stored. C=Q*V, where C is the charge, Q is capacitance, and V is voltage. The only way to generate a higher charge on a fixed capacitor is to increase the voltage.

      --
      https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
    12. Re: Can't wait for solid-state batteries by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Super-capacitors are already extremely reliable and affordable,

      Citation - preferably a manufacturer's data sheet of something that is actually in production and tells me how many of these I'll need for what application.

      they can't really store a whole lot of power at present

      I'm not sure that that means what you think it means. Any device which stores power would be a novelty. Sure we've got tons (literally) of devices that store boring old energy. but something something that stored power ... that would be novel.

      They virtually don't degrade (1 million charge/discharge cycles without degradation have been shown),

      At 50 Hz, that would be about 5.5 hours. Enough to get me 300-odd miles at truck speed.

      You know, I'm sure I'd have seen the replacement adverts at motorway truck stops, but they just don't seem to be grabbing my attention in the way that tyre adverts do.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    13. Re: Can't wait for solid-state batteries by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Citation - preferably a manufacturer's data sheet of something that is actually in production and tells me how many of these I'll need for what application.

      The manufacturers do not typically give enough information to estimate this beyond minimum and maximum values however the significant wearout mechanism involves an electrochemical reaction at high cell voltage; for every 0.2 volt increase in cell voltage, lifetime degrades by 10 times. In practice that means that lifetimes of 10 to 100 years are very feasible where other considerations become more important.

  4. The real surprise is... by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2

    Bombarding Li/ion batteries with CT-scanner x-rays may cause degradation!

    1. Re:The real surprise is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly! I've x-rayed items with Li/ion batteries in them and the batteries got quite warm compared to anything else in the machine. The machine in question: http://www.nikonmetrology.com/Products/X-ray-and-CT-Inspection/X-ray-systems-for-electronics-inspection/XT-V-160-Electronics-X-ray-system/

  5. TIMMUH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The ghost of TIMMAY survives. So do his stains on kdawson's bed sheets. Such is the way of the slashdead. The Digg locusts destroyed the field of lame, came here, destroyed this, and Dice appeared like the grim reaper. Is this what will happen when the CDC releases the super plague to thin out the population? Yes, yes, severe forshadowing. Slashdong, it was nice knowing you!

    --Captain Pink Taco

  6. Worse than watching paint dry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would be excruciating to watch a battery terminal change in real time.

  7. Re: Barbie by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Oh, that guy from "Under the Dome"?