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Improving UI and UX: Changing the "Open Source Is Ugly" Perception (opensource.com)

jones_supa writes: For four years, Garth Braithwaite has been working at Adobe on open source projects as a design and code contributor. In addition to his work at the company, he also speaks at conferences about the power of design, improving designer-developer collaboration, and the benefits of open source. Still, he argues that the user experience is weak in many open source projects. One of the largest contributing factors is the lack of professional designers contributing to open source projects. Secondary to that, there are open source project owners who are unaware of the value of design or are unsure where to start with the design process. In an interview to Opensource.com, Braithwaite talks about the UX/UI topic, and gives some honorable mentions of projects that get it right.

29 of 402 comments (clear)

  1. No thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Mozilla put UI/UX people in charge of Firefox and destroyed the product. I'll take my "ugly" open source programs any day.

    1. Re:No thanks by mwvdlee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that UX/UI people like to invent new and exciting stuff, while they should be making stuff familiar and boring.

      An interface that a user doesn't notice while using it, is an interface done right.

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    2. Re:No thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From what I've seen and read a lot of newer UI/UX people are ignoring everything that the UI/UX people learned and built up over the last 20+ years. Instead of learning what works first and how to improve it, they inject their own ideas and follow what's popular. What we end up with is a "dark ages" of sorts of innovation where we take steps backwards and are stuck with it. I agree keep the old / ugly UI until we remember how to bring the past forward with us.

    3. Re:No thanks by iampiti · · Score: 5, Insightful

      +1 to that.
      To me a computer is a tool and I find arbitrary change in UI irritating.
      The concepts of menus, toolbars and so on that have been mostly the same for 30 years on GUIs and now are being discarded as obsolete by modern designers.
      It's logical that the interfaces for touchscreens are different but the problem is that now those interfaces are being applied to desktop programs as well. And they're less efficient and certainly not optimal for desktop apps.
      I don't want to spoil the party for anyone. You can have your "mobile" UIs on desktop PCs if you want as long as I get the option to use the classic, dense and featureful UI, but the problem is that option is available less and less often

    4. Re:No thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Someone needs to tell Google and Microsoft. They keep switching their UIs around every release for absolutely no reason.

      The reason is always the same : how can we sell you the same crap over and over again ? Answer : we redesign the UI and pronto, we've got a new product on our hands.

    5. Re:No thanks by vtcodger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As far as I can see, hiring a "professional" UI/UX person is roughly equivalent to replacing your amateur alchemist with a professional. At the end of the day, you still don't have any gold.

      I once had the misfortune to work on a project that was blessed withTWO UI experts. Those two dudes agreed on absolutely nothing except that the existing UI sucked.

      --
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    6. Re:No thanks by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For example, on a lot of web or graphic design forums, if you even try suggesting that flat design is almost always a bad idea that is built on poorly chosen basic design principles, you have a pretty good chance of being downvoted/modded/censored into oblivion.

      Oh - this - so much this! The backlash against skeuomorphics has produced some of the most boring and bland and ucking fugly interfaces seen by humans.

      It's like someone said "Good design is a square of a primary color, with a letter in it." To me, the problem is across the board - UI's are getting ugly, like we are returning to Commodore 64 days when there just wasn't enough resolution to make nice looking stuff.

      And don't even think about going beyond generic flat design to criticising Apple's recent design efforts or Google's Material Design, because you might as well just hand in your geek card on the spot.

      Patience, ABV. Design, like automobiles, goes through periods of massive ugly. And that is exactly where we are at right now. This too shall pass.

      --
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    7. Re:No thanks by whoever57 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My gripe with GNOME, which shows how (IMHO) brain-dead the UI/UX people developing GNOME are is adding things to the Panel. In Gnome 1/2. this is achieved with a right-mouse button on the panel. In Gnome 3, it requires Meta-right-mouse key (I think). Why this change? It's not reasonably discoverable. The simple right-mouse-key on the panel does not perform some other important function (it does nothing).

      I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks that adding an extra key that must be pressed to get the same functionality as was achieved without it, unless there is a really good reason, is stupid.

      --
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    8. Re:No thanks by Aighearach · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is that UX/UI people like to invent new and exciting stuff, while they should be making stuff familiar and boring.

      An interface that a user doesn't notice while using it, is an interface done right.

      Damn straight! I hate it when these jerks start trying to fluff my interface, or massage my paradigm. Leave it alone, it is a tool. That is why I chose open source, because I just want the tool that does the thing, and if I want it to do something else, I can add it.

      First they start diddling the paradigms and they say, "oh you can still use the old one" and then when a critical security patch is required, they say, "oh gosh, well you can just upgrade if you want it to be secure."

      Nothing goes to hell faster than a popular project. Give me a boring project that is grudgingly maintained with a few lines of bug fixes every few years. I'm still using gimp, it still works the same as in the 90s, and it still does all the stuff I need. I can still write plugins, now in new languages too. And it still looks the same way that people said was "ugly" and all sorts of nasty things. And the features are still in the same places. Being "ugly," for whatever reason people thought, never once stopped me from getting beautiful results with it.

    9. Re:No thanks by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh - this - so much this! The backlash against skeuomorphics has produced some of the most boring and bland and ucking fugly interfaces seen by humans.

      It's like someone said "Good design is a square of a primary color, with a letter in it." To me, the problem is across the board - UI's are getting ugly, like we are returning to Commodore 64 days when there just wasn't enough resolution to make nice looking stuff.

      There has been an overreaction, certainly, but that's due to people not listening to the complaints about skeuomorphism.

      The problem with skeuomorphic design is that it ignores the basic principles of what an "icon" is, and how the human brain works. The point is that the gradings and shadings and pseudo-3D projections on Windows XP icons were slower to process cognitively than their Windows 95 equivalents. The trick to a good icon is to find the simplest unambiguous "form" that prototypes the concept to the human brain. A good example of flat design is the icon for iBooks on iOS -- it's a minimal unambiguous representation of a book.

      A contrasting bad example would be the icon for Facetime. It's not instantly recognisable as a video camera, and even if it was, "video camera" is not a synonym of "video call".

      I specifically used two examples from iOS because this isn't about my views on Apple (the iPad was given to me, my laptop runs Windows and Linux), but just about the principles. Flat design is not a panacea -- it is just one principle of many that make up UI/UX design. Flat design on its own is useless -- flat design is supposed to make it easier to apply the other principles.

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    10. Re:No thanks by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The king of the 3-D look was Apple of course, and interestingly enough, was used by a lot of artist and Illustrators, th elatter of whom know a lot abotu this kind of thing.

      I really liked Be's vivid, isomorphic icon style. It was a fad for a moment and then died down, but I miss it. The icons were very clear and easy to see, but also attractive.

      --
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  2. No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not a surprise that many of the larger open source projects lack professional UI/UX designers. These groups tend to become cliques where anyone who is not a programmer is seen as less than worthy. Who the hell wants to try to assist groups with attitudes like that? There are so many cases where professionalism is missing in the entire equation.

    Many programmers need to wake up and understand that it's their own staunch idealism that is driving people who could greatly improve things away.

    1. Re:No surprise by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I maintain that a professional UI/UX designer doesn't exist. They're amateurs. Dabblers. Dilettantes. They're not much better than feng-shui mongers.

      In my day we had ergonomists and human factors people, with some actual basis in science.

      --
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    2. Re:No surprise by KGIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I maintain that open source is not, generally, ugly. I use LXDE in most cases - maybe Cinnamon. I like plain. I like knowing where stuff is when I go to look for it. I do change some colors but that's easy. It was fine the way it was and not ugly. I even make my own dock - now that's ugly.

      I like the older stuff. I don't need live tiles, I don't need fancy sliding things. I do like some transparency in a few things (like looking through the terminal to see the text behind it) but even my terminal is themed mostly like an old green screen TRS-80.

      I don't find it ugly at all. I find it just right. If I didn't, I'd change it.

      --
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  3. Gnome 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One of the largest contributing factors is the lack of professional designers contributing to open source projects

    How about that, he wants someone to pay him to fuck up other people's projects and wants to browbeat those people into letting him fuck up their projects by saying they need professional design.

    "open source is ugly, let's change things" is what turned Gnome 2, the best desktop environment of its day, into Gnome 3, which no one who has a choice uses.

    "professional designers" can go to hell.

  4. "weak" UX often found w/ the most powerful SW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I edit code using emacs. It would make any "UX designer" throw up. To the clueless, it's "user experience" looks horrifically bad, especially how I have mine configured up old-school without menus or GUI buttons. Just text and a mode line.

    But you know what? I can utterly, totally, annihilate people using better "UX quality" text editors when it comes to heavy duty text editing. I've had people literally gasp out loud watching what can be done.

    I'll make a similar claim for other SW I've used, such as CAD systems, which are all but incomprehensible for novices but let experts work magic.

    People mistake "ease of newbies being able to do something" with "expert usability". These are not the same. Most of the time, UX designers optimize for the first thing at the expense of the second. It's one thing if you can manage to get both, and I'm not saying that's impossible or that it never happens. But most of the time when UX experts get their hands on something, actual usability for experts is sacrificed on the alter of hand-holding for novices.

    That's even becoming true of desktops now. Configurability is the enemy: it's too confusing, and we must not have anything which might require thought, no matter how useful it is. Computing is trending towards playskool-levels of being dumbed down.

  5. Re:Shoot the messenger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    full teams to meet the designs that the public wants, instead of designing to geeks desires.

    Why should it ever "meet the designs that the public wants?" Seriously, why would anyone consider that as a goal?

    What the public wants is well represented by Android, iOS, Windows, and the like. The public already has this. Please, let us technical people have one last bastion that doesn't suck for the technically literate. "The public" has its playgrounds, complete with malware, spyware, adware, bloatware, and all the rest. They got the "designs they wanted", and that's what they did with them.

    Leave the rest of us alone. We're quite happy here with our technically oriented, non-handholding, niche OS. Don't try to ruin what we have, after you already ruined what YOU had.

  6. I disagree with the premise by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The UI/UX experience is weak in many software projects, not just open source software projects.

    .
    The premise looks at the worst of the open source software projects and compares it to the best of the proprietary software projects. That's typically how these types of comparisons are done, with a huge anti-open source bias.

    If you ask the wrong questions, you're going to get the wrong answers.

  7. Change All Names, Redefine All Terms by Pseudonymous+Powers · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In my experience, when a UI expert says you need to fix your interface, he is almost certainly right.

    When a "UX" "guru" says you need to "update" your "experience", he is almost certainly wrong.

  8. Re:Shoot the messenger by west · · Score: 4, Insightful

    An insightful point. The trouble is that many of the open source products also covet what the mainstream has - market share.

  9. good UI is hard, more designers isn't the problem by danomatika · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A good UI is hard and takes *a lot* of time. I don't think the problem is a lack of designers but a lack of designers who can really put in the *time* with developers to actually polish things.

    Sure, you can get things working to 90% but that last 10% that actually makes something quick and easy to use if HARD. Most open source projects just don't have enough people with enough time to devote to that last 10%.

    The "open source is ugly" premise is sometimes right but for the reason that we're used to closed source software companies actually having enough staff and devoting enough time to that last 10% ... some of the time ;)

  10. Re:Ban UI/UX experts by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    UI is really no different to programming itself. A few people are really good at it. Many more people doing it are OK, but won't produce great results without some degree of leadership or guidance from the first group. There's a long tail of people who do more harm than good, and unless you can somehow get them up to the standards of at least the middle group, you're better off without them contributing at all.

    Also like programming, it's quite difficult to know someone really good from someone just OK unless you're already pretty good yourself. Otherwise you lack enough of a frame of reference to make informed decisions or, often, to collaborate effectively with someone from a different field.

    One thing that is a big difference is that at least there is some degree of objectivity with programming, in that up to a point everyone can see whether a program actually does its job when you run it, regardless of how it looks internally. With UI, there is much less hard data about general principles for what works well and what doesn't, and it usually requires significant effort and resources to collect hard data about the UI effectiveness in some specific area of a program under development.

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  11. The real problem is Millennials. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the end, the actual problem is that the people doing most UI/UX design these days are Millennials (aka Hipsters).

    An integral part of these people's identity is that they're always right about everything, even when they're absolutely 100% wrong.

    They've been raised by Baby Boomers (who we long thought to be the worst generation; Millennials have proven otherwise) to have a total inability to handle criticism. Legitimate criticism is typically mislabeled as "bullying" by Millennials. Perversely, because "bullying" is now allegedly involved, this allows Millennials to treat the wrongly-labeled "bully" far worse than the mislabeled "bully" ever treated anyone else!

    This is why it's not unusual to see Millennials ban people from online discussion, for example. Millennials tend to be petty tyrants, hypocritically claiming to support freedom and justice, while simultaneously showing extreme contempt for both by engaging in censorship.

    When you combine Millennials and their rotten philosophy with something like software UI design, the result is a complete disaster. Millennials automatically assume that their awful work is correct, even when users very plainly explain what the problems are. Millennials, being sure that they're correct, either deny or ignore the very valid complaints that users bring up. In the end the users typically move to an alternative piece of software, if one is available.

    Now before you start with the "get off my lawn" crap, this isn't about age. If whatever generation comes after the Millennials can undo all of the damage that the Millennials have done, then I welcome their effort!

    1. Re:The real problem is Millennials. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Wow now millenials are hipsters? Haha I didn't think the hipster term could be expanded to include any more people after it defaulted to "people who do things I don't like".

    2. Re:The real problem is Millennials. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe if you established logical arguments, people would actually listen to your point? Your whole tirade seems to be about some group of people whom you either dislike or don't properly understand. Now, are you able to discuss the matter rationally, or do you try to undermine other people's efforts by complaining about them behind their backs?

      From your post, I suspect the latter, and indeed, such office politics could be labeled "bullying" as it's a rather underhanded way of sabotaging other people.

      Just because you believe in "a correct implementation", doesn't mean other people have your exact priorities to work on! I've heard countless tirades from "experts" and "specialists" who simply are stuck in their ways and refuse that there are more than their way to do things, or that their precious system is just one of many better and more efficient ways to do the same things.

      Of course, new employees will repeat old mistakes. It's because your culture is ass-backwards . Not to worry: In a few years, it'll become theirs. It'll be built on the foundation that you have laid out.

    3. Re:The real problem is Millennials. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How did the dumb parent comment get modded up? Does anyone here even work in the software industry any longer?!

      Millennials make up the 18 to 35 demographic these days. As such, they're also the bulk of the employees working in the various branches of web and UI design.

      If you're working on software, and there are designers involved, in almost all cases they are Millennials. This is especially true in Silicon Valley, which heavily favors younger workers.

      Furthermore, most of the Millennials working in design are hipsters, without any doubt. "Hipster" isn't some vague term. It's a culture with its own specific styles of fashion, its own attitudes, its own beliefs, and its own aspirations.

      When it comes to software UI design, whether we're talking about web apps, mobile apps or desktop apps, the work is being done by Millennials, and it's almost guaranteed that they will be part of the hipster culture.

      It's exceedingly rare to find non-hipster/non-Millennial designers because most of them get ran out of the industry by the hipster Millennials, or they leave after getting fed up with having to deal with such awful people on a regular basis.

      If you actually worked in the software industry, you'd have known this, and wouldn't have posted as dumb of a comment as you just did.

  12. UI designers are like feminists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    and user experience design is like feminism: They look like good ideas, until you understand that they're just power grabs. UX people, like many architects, value form over function, and clarity over flexibility. Programmers gave us the Linux kernel. User interface people gave us Gnome.

  13. Are you kidding? by epyT-R · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole 'UX' campaign is what destroyed usability in today's software. It traded graduated learning and functionality with fisher price level capabilities. Large fonts, wasted whitespace, and condescending status messages (think google, facebook, or the 'new' microsoft) rule the day. Search boxes are tacked on after the fact to make up for the useless interface. Of course, when one of these users wants to do more or have a problem fixed, it's technical people who have to get around the total lack of flexibility and technical feedback to fix the problem.

    Lack of 'professional' designers is not the issue. There are plenty of paid designers turning out crap designs, too.

    The argument made about developers vs users is also bullshit. In earlier times, the applications were developed by developers for use by ANYONE who wanted to do whatever it was the application was designed for. This forced anyone who wanted to do these things to learn how the application works. If it was designed well, the result was an educated, productive user who understands at least some of the underpinnings of the required workflow. Today's 'designing' assumes the user is an idiot and actively prevents any real mastery of the process. This results in garbage output.

    VLC has a good design? Did they even look at the options panel? It has to be one of the worst. My favorites are the textboxes that give no clue as to the datatype or format expected. Firefox hasn't had a good interface since they wiped out the menu system. The fact that classic theme restorer is one of the more popular addons for the program speaks volumes about 'UX'.

    Naturally, the guy being interviewed pointed out mostly pointless web 'apps', each with typical hipster names that have no relevance to their actual functionality. About what I'd expect from 'UX designers.'

  14. Re:Shoot the messenger by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know RMS is unpopular here, but how about because freedom? If the UI is the thing driving people to closed software and non free data formats, I see value in changing that.

    Imagine if you never had to deal with another PSD file, because the most common layered graphics format was the GIMP's.

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