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Cold Fusion and the Reputation Trap (aeon.co)

An anonymous reader writes: Huw Price, the Bertrand Russell Professor of Philosophy at Cambridge, has written an article about how the scientific community regards research into cold fusion, and those who undertake it. His argument is not that current cold fusion research is necessarily correct, but rather that actual scientific progress is inhibited by what he calls a "reputation trap." "People outside the trap won't go near it, for fear of falling in. ... People inside the trap are already regarded as disreputable, an attitude that trumps any efforts that they might make to argue their way out, by reason and evidence." Central to his case is Andrea Rossi's work, which is not taken seriously throughout the scientific community, and yet he's still doing business.

Price's point is this: "Cold fusion is dismissed as pseudoscience, the kind of thing that respectable scientists and science journalists simply don't talk about (unless to remind us of its disgrace). ...the standard line is that the rejection of cold fusion in 1989 turned on the failure to replicate the claims of Fleischmann and Pons. Yet if that were the real reason, then the rejection would have to be provisional. Failure to replicate couldn't possibly be more than provisional – empirical science is a fallible business, as any good scientist would acknowledge. In that case, well-performed experiments claiming to overturn the failure to replicate would certainly be of great interest."

15 of 344 comments (clear)

  1. Cold fusion is psuedo-science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Rossi is a huckster who has a black box that he won't let anyone see with inputs that he won't let anyone measure.

    If Rossi actually succeeded with cold fusion, he would be the richest man on the planet, instead he is a clown with a black box.

    1. Re:Cold fusion is psuedo-science by Nutria · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. Cold fusion "researchers" head first to popular journalists, not research journals.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    2. Re:Cold fusion is psuedo-science by Beck_Neard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Precisely.

      The reason cold fusion isn't taken seriously is because it's been a consistent source of bullshit, lies, data manipulation, outright fraud, and bogus explanations.

      Cold fusion didn't just lose credibility because of Fleischmann and Pons. It's lost credibility because of the 26 years of its history too. A lot of the time, reputable scientists do attempt to verify and duplicate the claims of the cold fusion people only to be rapidly turned away. The cold fusion people don't *want* real experts looking at their work. They want gullible idiots and journalists.

      --
      A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
    3. Re: Cold fusion is psuedo-science by taustin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I had cold fusion i would keep it secret at all cost and cash in.

      How, pray tell, would you do so? You "cash in" by selling working units, which, by definition is not secret.

      What you propose is, literally, the very definition of pseudoscience.

      If someone that can hide such a discovery claims to have it, that's a very good reason to doubt it.

      However the claim of pseudoscience is as far as I can see unfounded. What's your references for that claim. It probably isn't possible to do cold fusion but that doesn't make it pseudoscience.

      What makes it pseudoscience is that a) no one has every had results that could be reproduced by other researchers, and b) everyone working in the field today is not interested in publishing their results, patenting the design, and selling working units. Most are only interested in collecting money from investors without doing those things.

    4. Re: Cold fusion is psuedo-science by taustin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well you can also sell electricity while keeping the inner workings of your box secret.

      If you're generating enough power to get rich, by definition, you're not keeping it secret. And the regulators will come knocking on your door, wanting to know a) what the waste products are, b) what you are doing with said waste products, and c) what effect that has on the environment.

      Real cold fusion would have very good answers to those questions. Fake cold fusion would involve a lot of pollutants being illegal (and criminally) dumped somewhere.

      So no, you can't sell the electricity while keeping it secret.

    5. Re: Cold fusion is psuedo-science by harperska · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is another key aspect that separates true science from imposter pseudoscience. I could publish extensive research on how my cat is secretly telepathically communicating with extra terrestrials, but only when nobody is looking. But no amount of commentary from others in the feline psychic SETI field would make that research 'science'. What sets that absurd scenario apart from genuine science may be counterintuitive to people who don't understand science, which is why pseudoscience is so pervasive. Specifically, the one thing that sets real science apart from pseudoscience is falsifiability. Scientists actually want their theories to be proven false, and formulate them in such a way that it if they were false, it would be (relatively) easy to show it. In fact, the way scientists provide evidence for a theory when they publish it is to assume from the beginning that the theory is false (called the null hypothesis), and provide research which shows that it is statistically very unlikely for the null hypothesis to be true.

      Rossi, on the other hand, starts with the premise that his device does work, doesn't entertain any alternative theories that would explain his results as would be required by a null hypothesis, and adamantly rejects anyone else's attempts to do the same. Therefore, his work is soundly in the realm of pseudoscience.

  2. Bad argument by guruevi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I mean, he's a philosopher but there is no such trap in science. There are people who are reputed to be swindlers like the Rossi guy, keep trying to sell their 'science' regardless that their proofs are irreproducible.

    There are plenty of people working on fusion, it's not a dead science, it's just a very, very hard problem with no theoretical or experimental models that currently work and it may never work, hot fusion or even residential-grade fission is a lot closer than cold fusion will ever become.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    1. Re:Bad argument by Goldsmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've worked in a large government lab that included a small cold fusion group. The cold fusion scientists at that lab were extremely careful and competent (and never made any claims about power generation). Their work essentially revolved around running nuclear reactions using something other than heat to drive the reaction. Totally non-controversial.

      The management and senior scientists at the lab would routinely make fun of these people. They absolutely dealt with a completely undeserved lack of credibility because the words "cold fusion" were associated with their work. Scientists are people, we make human judgments, like it or not.

  3. Re:So?! by Darinbob · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If some area of research is claimed as "discredited" it should mean that a higher burden of proof is required. There's no reason to shun cold fusion and declare that any research in it is wasted, that's unscientific. However it is reasonable to assume anyone working on cold fusion research should be prepared to go beyond some simple papers claiming relevant results in one lab. Part of the shunning of cold fusion also came from the embarrassment factor, as a lot of people had been quickly interested in it, world wide news reports, early hype followed by disappointment.

    For astrology, it's been discredited over and over and over. There's never been any hint of evidence into validity, not even preliminary theories. The burden of proof to be accepted as a valid scientific researcher here is vastly higher than with cold fusion.

  4. Real power generation doesn't need belief by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If Rossi's or anyone's claim that cold fusion (or some other power generation technique) worked was real, then they don't need anyone to believe them. They could just sell power and bootstrap themselves to millions/billions.

    For example, if I could produce a few MW of electricity cheap, with a compact form factor, I'd just go to Hawaii (which has really expensive electricity) and undercut the price of electricity there and sell the power to a datacenter or a high rise building. With the profits, I could bootstrap and make more power generators, and displace more competing capacity.

    And with generators that were powering MWs of buildings/datacenters, with no visible fuel inputs other than deuterium, I think credibility would soon be a non-issue.

    --PM

  5. Re:Climate Change by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Part of the problem is that while they claim there's no proof that it's caused by man, they also implicitly take the next step and imply that it's not that big a disaster.

    ORLY?

    The last I heard, the only way the issue of whether the claimed climate change is, as also claimed, caused by man (by fossil-fuel sourced carbon dioxide emissions) entered into it is that, if such human emissions are not a major causative factor, reduction of them by draconian government intervention is useless. (Worse than useless, actually, since the economic disaster such intervention represents could destroy the possibility of applying some effective solution if it is actually needed. For instance: If the planet is disastrously cooking and all else fails, we could orbit some continent-scale sunshades - but only if we could still afford an industrial-scale space program.)

    That is a completely separate issue from whether climate change is happening. It is also separate from whether, if it is happening, it is a disaster, an annoyance, neutral, or even a good thing.

    There are a lot of steps from "We noticed the temperature measurements are bit different from a century ago." to "We must reverse this trend, even if it means destroying industrial civilization, and freezing in the dark, and the exercise of totalitarian governmental power, or we'll all die!" Government and financial figures have jumped over all the steps - straight to the convenient-for-them totalitarian intervention and billions of dollars siphoned off from production to the operators of carbon credit markets - before the first couple steps were exposed to any substantial peer review.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  6. Re:Climate Change by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So we wait until the sky falls? Given lots and lots of evidence of climate change already happening? Don't give up smoking until the xrays show a tumor.

    Your "way of life" is trivial to change. Stop driving some wannabe-cowboy SUV that does 3mpg on a good day, start recycling, turn the lights off when you're not in the room, etc. Cut back on American style conspicuous consumption.

  7. Economic Change by slew · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The whole point of denying that climate change is man made is as an excuse to do nothing; the thinking that if it's not our fault then we don't have to fix it.

    I disagree. The whole point of denying that climate change is man made is to attempt to *absolve* us from the sin of doing it.

    Take for instance a forest fire. It happens. We attempt to blame someone. When the cause appears "natural" (e.g., a lightning strike or similar), then we as a species seem somehow *absolved* from responsibility. However, regardless of the blame, we often still attempt to stop a forest fire and attempt remediation afterwards, not because of some moral duty to the planet, but because it serves our economic interests. The truth of the matter, is the mere act of stopping/managing forest fires for our own selfish economic reasons may be one of the *unnatural* contributing factors of making future forest fires more intense. That doesn't stop most people from thinking we shouldn't put out forest fires that we didn't start. You can't really separate "us" from "natural" in the modern environment. If it's gonna burn, it will burn, eventually. In the bigger scheme of things does it really matter who started it? No. But the act of assigning blame shifts the debate on the cost burdens of any remediation process. The remediation of course is not about the forest per-se, but the economic value of the remediation the forest (e.g., prevent land-slide from covering highways, blocking dams, polluting water sources we use).

    The point is that most everything in this climate change debate is about economics, not the planet. The planet was here long before us and will be here long after we are gone. The sooner people start realizing the whole thing is about economics, not the planet, and stop trying to assign blame to drive their remediation agenda, we can attempt to negotiate a reasonable path forward. In all likelihood that path might be better economically for us as a species but potentially *unnatural* when compared to how the environment would evolve without us.

    This really just reminds me of the nuclear freeze protests of the 80's. The main argument put forth at the time, was that we should just stop and wait until we figure it out (basically the argument that is made by AGW folks). Of course we didn't stop and then the situation changed (no more USSR) which eventually led to de-escalation that seemed to be what would have been better in the first place. On the other hand the escalation we did could have had WWIII, but nobody knew at the time that economics would drive the eventual solution (e.g., no more USSR). The same thing is true with AGW. Nobody knows will happen, but I predict in the end, economics will drive the situation one way or the other. The current "A" part is really just posturing.

  8. Re:Climate Change by BonThomme · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, wait until the sky falls then blame the scientists for not being able to convince you before it was too late.

  9. Elephant in the room by seoras · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's an elephant in this room and it's the oil and gas industry.
    It's not so much that so many of us dream of a world where energy is free and limitless as a glass of cold water.
    It's that most of us realise how much less horror would be in the world if there wasn't constant fighting over the limited fossil fuels that cold fusion would replace.
    Scientific reputation and the laws of physics can go to hell if these are the things that are preventing us from living in a better, safer, cleaner world.
    I'm willing to believe that it's all a hoax if it's 100% certain it is BS.
    However, for the love of humanity, if there's even a shadow of a possibility that any of these experiments have shown something worth checking further then please can everyone shut up and stop shouting it down until we really are 100% certain it's snake oil.
    Otherwise, it looks to many of us, like the elephant in the room is behind the angry mob goading them on to burn the heretics...