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Justice Department Shuts Down Huge Asset Forfeiture Program

HughPickens.com writes: Christopher Ingraham reports at the Washington Post that the Department of Justice has announced that it's suspending a controversial asset forfeiture program that allows local police departments to keep a large portion of assets seized from citizens under federal law and funnel it into their own coffers. Asset forfeiture has become an increasingly contentious practice in recent years. It lets police seize and keep cash and property from people who are never convicted — and in many cases, never charged with wrongdoing. Recent reports have found that the use of the practice has exploded in recent years, prompting concern that, in some cases, police are motivated more by profits and less by justice. Criminal justice reformers are cheering the change. "This is a significant deal," says Lee McGrath, legislative counsel at the Institute for Justice. "Local law enforcement responds to incentives. And it's clear that one of the biggest incentives is the relative payout from federal versus state forfeiture. And this announcement by the DOJ changes the playing field for which law state and local [law enforcement] is going to prefer."

30 of 232 comments (clear)

  1. AKA "Stealing from citizens program" by JoeyRox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When the government steals they give it a nice sounding euphemism. When citizens steal they're called criminals and go to jail.

    1. Re: AKA "Stealing from citizens program" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It certainly doesn't. Go read the bill of rights. You won't make it halfway through before you've encountered multiple prohibitions on government taking things (outside of court procedures) from The People.

    2. Re:AKA "Stealing from citizens program" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Did you even bother to read the article where it states that a citizen doesn't even have to be charged with a crime for the feds to take their property? So, if someone hasn't even been charged with a crime how the f**k can you say that the government has a right to take that person's property?

    3. Re:AKA "Stealing from citizens program" by arth1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The government's argument are that:
      1: It's not them taking it, it's you forfeiting it, and
      2: It's not yours until and unless you prove that it was obtained legally, and
      3: Because it doesn't belong to you unless you prove it does, and they are under no obligation to find out who it really belongs to, it's their duty to assume ownership.

      They're twisting the law with semantics, and shifting the burden of proof over to the accused. Sometimes not even accused, but merely suspected, or affiliated with a suspect.

    4. Re:AKA "Stealing from citizens program" by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're twisting the law with semantics, and shifting the burden of proof over to the accused. Sometimes not even accused, but merely suspected, or affiliated with a suspect.

      Suspected? Hell, I've heard of them taking as small amounts as $200-500, found during a traffic stop, claiming that it was 'to buy drugs' when driving away from Colorado.

      Mind you, as an old-fashioned sort, I consider those amounts to be pocket change for a long trip because I remember when credit cards weren't as much of an option and bank ATMs weren't as universal, and even if they'd take your card would charge outrageous fees.

      --
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    5. Re: AKA "Stealing from citizens program" by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Go read the bill of rights.

      If the Bill of Rights actually meant anything, this program would have never been allowed to exist. Even now, it is being suspended by administrative decree, not because the judicial branch decided to grow a backbone, stand up, and defend the Constitution. Although the program is being suspended, the stolen property is not being returned, and no one is going to jail or even getting a reprimand.

    6. Re:AKA "Stealing from citizens program" by Catbeller · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ain't the first time. Hell, most of the country was stolen, by the light of our own laws. (Treaties have the force of the Constitution, so are supreme law). No one seems to sweat that. And outside, we've Puerto Rico, Guam, sorta Cuba (we viewed it as ours), the Phillipines (before the Japanese shook them loose by reconquering them).. all were stolen. Iraq and it's oil. Hawaii. Nothing new about our own people and our own government stealing what they want.

    7. Re: AKA "Stealing from citizens program" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not to mention huge army/airforce bases in Japan and Germany (and Cuba) still occupied even when asked to leave.

      Or the huge German gold reserves stored in the US to which the owner, the federal reserve bank of Germany, was denied access to (just to look at its property) and was even refused a certificate/a list of the gold bouillons that they still exist.

      To quote southpark: And it is gone.

      The US are the biggest thief and the biggest bully thug the world has ever known. They are not evil like Daesh, granted and they have given the world a lot to be thankful for, but they are not exactly benign/lawful-good either.

  2. About fucking time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now give the ill gotten gains back

  3. positive change but still distressing. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    i find it quite distressing that this was ever considered legal.

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  4. Big deal... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's just a violation of the 4th and 8th Amendments. After all, the Constitution doesn't mean anything, we can have a Federal Government willfully trample all over it whenever it likes...

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  5. Re:The Fine Print by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Too bad being a stupid shit isn't illegal, then you wouldn't be one.

  6. Err, no - Government does NOT have the right. by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. - US Constitution, 4th Amendment

    Asset seizures and forfeiture, especially without charges or conviction, are inherently unconstitutional. Of course, when Government gets to arbitrate what is Constitutional, it will naturally decide that a nice, open-ended income stream will always be constitutional - regardless of the actual fact.

    If only more people remembered our rights existed before the Government was founded, our rights do not come from Government.

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    1. Re:Err, no - Government does NOT have the right. by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, many assets are seized and kept without charges even being brought. Seizing assets should only be accompanied by an actual criminal charge (per the 4th Amendment), and kept by the Government only if a conviction is upheld (8th Amendment). Any other seizure and retention is patently unconstitutional.

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    2. Re:Err, no - Government does NOT have the right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "As long as you can own a personal firearm you are free."

      Until you try to use it to prevent the government from trampling on your rights. Then you're worm food.

    3. Re:Err, no - Government does NOT have the right. by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's still a problem. The due process of law doesn't happen until AFTER the assets are taken. The due process is to happen before. Filling out a form is NOT anything like due process.

    4. Re:Err, no - Government does NOT have the right. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Essentially, the police are using an anti-mafia law against regular people now that the mafia has largely been wiped out in the United States.
      As the US is ruled by the MAFIA I realy wonder what your actual point was ...

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    5. Re: Err, no - Government does NOT have the right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      That depends on how you use it.

      Don't go for the 15 minutes of fame on the news. Plan accordingly, use the tool for its intended purpose then keep your mouth shut. A very permanent solution to the legalized theft problem we seem to have.

      With no realistic recourse ( the litigation will cost more than what they take most of the time ) I know how I would deal with such things if the issue was forced upon me.

    6. Re:Err, no - Government does NOT have the right. by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      See the first sentence of the preamble of the Declation of Independence that you quote - that answers it all, and is the basis for the creation of the US Constitution and general original approach to citizenship and Governance. Government is created by men to secure these rights - but the rights already exist prior to the creation - or even the operation - of Government. Unfortunately it's been corrupted over the centuries to your twisted view - that we get what we have from Government, we're but subjects to the bureaucracy in DC and your local State capital...

      PS: the 1st Amendment deals with a LOT more than just establishment of an official church of the country; it's mainly about the right to free political speech and the freedom to petition the Government with your grievances. Of course, with attitudes like yours, we're just servants begging the master to not whip us so hard...

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    7. Re:Err, no - Government does NOT have the right. by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Simple answer: is the asset one that the actual criminal owns (or controls, in the case of leases or mortgages)? No? Then the actual owner - not involved in the activity - gets the asset back. Id even go so far as to say that assets of the criminal's immediate family are also fair game (trying to claim that a wife didn't materially participate or benefit from the criminal actions of her husband would be a stretch).

      Here's a question for you. If I stop on your lawn and sell a rock of crack cocaine, should you lose your house because it was used for a drug deal? That's what happens when the rental car is used to transport illicit items, or a rental home is used for criminal activities. Unless you can show the owner of the asset had actual knowledge (and thus was an accomplice) of the crimes - how does it make any moral or even legal sense to penalize them? How about just penalizing the people who commit the crimes, not the innocent bystanders...

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    8. Re: Err, no - Government does NOT have the right. by qeveren · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So... by getting yourself killed?

      --
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    9. Re:Err, no - Government does NOT have the right. by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well see, yes and no. Asset forfeiture came about as a means of stopping organized crime

      Their purpose is irrelevant to their constitutionality.

      The entire reason asset forfeiture is still legal is because technically, you do have recourse if the police take your money. The problem is getting the proof together to do so.

      No, they are not legal according to the US Constitution: taking away stuff from people without due process is not one of the enumerated powers. That by itself is sufficient to render it illegal, but this is explicitly reinforced by the 5th and 14th Amendments: nor shall any person . . . be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law. When police take your stuff and say "prove that you own it", that is not "due process of the law", it isn't "process of the law" of any form, it is entirely arbitrary.

  7. You mean shakedown? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Asset forfeiture has become a program by which law enforcement can shake down citizens without and evidentiary standard, and steal that money for their own departments.

    I'm sorry, but can you trust law enforcement when they profit from the misapplication of terrible laws?

    For me, no way in hell ... it became a license to steal money like a bunch of crooks. And like a bunch of crooks, they stole everything which wasn't nailed down.

    I bet the sheer amount of money which has essentially been stolen by a bunch of thugs with badges is vast. I mean, why wouldn't they steal money from every schmuck they encountered if they could just make shit up and claim they suspected a crime.

    You want to see how corruptable police are? Give them free reign to take money without a court to decide, and you'll see exactly what we have now ... a fucking shakedown racket the mob would be proud of.

    --
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  8. Re:The Fine Print by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They are still taking the money. Just not sharing it with local law enforcement.

    So local law enforcement agencies will now have big holes in their budgets.

    So anyone want to guess how they will fill these holes? Raise local taxes . . . ? Raise the fines for traffic tickets, and hand out more tickets . . . ?

    At any rate, they are not going to get by with less money.

    --
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  9. Call it what is was by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just call it what is was: Legalized Theft, backed by the power of law.

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  10. Re:The Fine Print by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Getting rid of their "SWAT" team would probably save a ton of cash as well...

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  11. Re:The Fine Print by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That will have the effect of reducing its use. It was the fact that state and local law enforcement got a cut of seized property that made it so popular with the police. That incentive is now removed, and the FBI and Federal prosecutors can keep using it against organized crime.

    --
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  12. Who thinks up this shit? by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The obvious is going to happen once you start forcing the people who make the seizures to earn their living from it no matter how honest 99% of them are.

  13. Re:The Fine Print by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They are still taking the money. Just not sharing it with local law enforcement.

    Here's the deal: It's not like the feds were active participants in 99% of the seizures. Basically, some podunk jurisdiction would seize the stuff, usually cash. They'd 'charge' the money, not the individual, with the suspicion of being involved in interstate drug trafficking. Note - 'intended to purchase' was a 'good enough' excuse.

    In exchange for naming the FBI(for example) as a cooperating agency, even though no FBI agents were involved, it became a federal case under federal jurisdiction, until the program this article is about. In exchange for a 10% cut, the 'arresting' agency got to keep 90% of the money, which is often more generous than what state statutes allowed. Some states don't allow forfeitures this easily. Many only let the agency keep half of the money, etc...

    So many state agencies were using this federal program as an end-run around the rules of their own state.

    By no longer sharing the money, that removes the desire to confiscate the money in all but the most gregarious of cases.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  14. Re:Constitution (and logic) plainly states otherwi by dryeo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's so true. The government couldn't interfere with you tar and feathering your neighbour for his speech, or in the case of Mr Lynch, hanging them. The government couldn't interfere with your right to buy people and infringe on their rights. The government would actually help you steal other peoples property as those savages weren't actually people so you had a right to their stuff.
    Obviously for the entitled, rights pre-existed, including the right to infringe on others rights, but only as private citizens instead of the traditional aristocracy.

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