Slashdot Mirror
Bruce Schneier: IoT + DMCA = More Monopolies, Limits On Consumer Choice (theatlantic.com)
New submitter OldMan17 writes: On Dec 24, while many of us were busy in a frenzy of commercial excess and socially-conditioned good cheer, The Atlantic published an article by Bruce Schneier predicting that the IoT will be abused in conjunction with DMCA to make our lives worse instead of better. Some of the precedents he cites are old news, but I expect we will have a lively debate in the comments as to whether the over-arching conclusion is justified by his arguments. When everything is online, laws made for "the internet" suddenly apply to everything.
Laws are already abused as soon as creatively possible, why would the pattern stop all of a sudden?
This definitely falls under the whole "First World" problem category. It isn't a problem at all: just don't use those products. You don't need a Keurig (tastes terrible anyway). You definitely don't need a frigging Internet connected LIGHTBULB. If you buy those things you get what you deserve. I fail to see how this even warrants an article. You should be more concerned with general computing machines becoming walled gardens.
Which places even more limits on Consumer Choice.
https://wikileaks.org/tpp-ip3/
web site take-downs without court orders?
Illegal to modify devices you own?
etc.
The Internet of Things (IOT) is being driven by commercial interests that are more interesting in spying (known in commercial circles as marketing) and in control. Benefits will accrue, but they will not accrue to the people paying for the gear, which makes the IOT value subtracting for the average citizen.
Oh, that's right, I don't.
Internet of Things devices could watch me while I sleep.
So does Santa Claus... So be good, for goodness sake!
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
His example of the Hue dustup was a poor, poor choice as example there.
1) Hue bulbs use ZigBee Light-Link Profile.
2) The bulbs (all of them...ALL OF THEM in the IoT space right now) cannot be re-flashed.
3) In order to get a permanent private key for each SKU shipped using ZigBee LL Profile, the devices must conform to the spec and properly interoperate. So, they can't dink with the bulbs, period.
4) The only place you can even possibly DO what Phillips attempted to do would be to dink with the final phases of the LL handshake, wherein the coordinator (the gateway puck) would allow federation with the mesh or not at the last part of the process, based on manufacturer and manufacturer ID, and just drop the federation request on the floor if it didn't match the list.
5) It's not DRM, per se. Worse, it's NOT compliant with the ZigBee spec. Not sure how the Consortium would handle a revocation of things like that, but the Coordinator in that configuration no longer complied with the spec (which is to allow Home Automation and Light-Link protocol devices ONTO that mesh and be able to control them, period.
6) Better yet, there were competing products (Iris, Wink, etc.) that could work with Phillips' crap because of the ZigBee spec. While some of them don't have an "API" to drive it via PC, some do- and moreover, some of them let you have ZB and Z-Wave light controls signal lights on and off or to federate clusters of bulbs with a control panel that acts like a Light Switch. Phillips just simply cut their own throats by trying this. People can go buy up their RGB bulbs or Osram's...and get the same basic functionality as Hue provided...for less money in most cases.
I can hear the internet in my dental fillings..
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Just for the sake of discussion, what would happen to HP, for example, if multiple other cheap sources of printer ink (or toner cartridges) were available? What would be their means of making enough profit on the the printer product lines to satisfy their investors (who are presumably mostly institutional)? Would they make their numbers selling printers in an age when printers are selling (I think) for less than the cost of manufacturing and distribution? Would they make their numbers by reducing the quality and cost of their ink cartridges? Would they end up discontinuing their consumer-level products, and end up just selling higher-end products to businesses?
Just wondering...
Do you really want corporate America to play the role of deciding if you are naughty or nice? Do you want the rate at which you urinate, or make love to your partner be the basis of your next job review, mortgage or which college your kids get to attend?
Most people don't want nuance on the extent they own the goods they buy. This horse shit about you owning the physical properties, but licensing the software that is essential to its function is going to drive a deeper wedge between the public and IP than the corporate sector realizes. When your property rights become antithetical to mine, guess whose rights I'm going to choose...
Internet of Things devices could watch me while I listen to the Backstreet Boys.
You sick bastard, the Backstreet Boys? Really?
Off with your head.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
But at least the old fatso doesn't rat you out.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Google pushes for open implementation. All proprietary interfaces will become obsolete.
So does Santa Claus... So be good, for goodness sake!
So is 'Santa Claus' the code-name for the NSA, the CIA, the FBI, or some other government spy-on-citizens 'intelligence' agency? Would certainly explain a number of things.. do you work for them? XD
..but I diverge.
The 'Internet of Things' serves best as an IQ test: If you buy into it, you're probably not very smart; it's a trap, and it's one you pay for to get stuck in. Ask yourselves: Do you really need an internet-connected refrigerator, microwave oven, conventional oven, toaster, dishwasher, clothes washer, clothes dryer, lightbulbs for cryin' out loud? (Yes, I have friends who have X10/Insteon home automation.. but they don't want or need it internet-enabled) Remote HVAC sensing and control, I can sort of see; but isn't a simple time-programmable thermostat more than adequate?
The fact of the matter is that not only is TFA correct, these companies visciously lock down their devices and lock consumers into their products, but when it comes right down to it, they don't give much thought to the security of the network connections of these devices, and as such are open to attack and open to malicious parties/organizations prying into your homes and lives. Has our opinion of 'privacy' been so perverted and eroded to the point where nobody even cares anymore? Or have many of us just been lulled into a false sense of security such that we can't imagine any of these companies not protecting our privacy?
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
The trouble with ZigBee is that "ZigBee compliant" doesn't mean different devices will actually work together. Z-Wave, a more restrictive and more proprietary system, actually works better. And that illustrates what's wrong with Schneier's reasoning: forcing platforms and protocols to be open does not necessarily make life easier for consumers, because something being proprietary can result in better user experiences, as the owner of that technology has a stronger financial interest in policing it. Apple devices are another example of this. Many technologies that we now think of as "open" started off as proprietary.
Nevertheless, I think the DMCA is overreach and unnecessary: there shouldn't be legal penalties for reverse engineering or making compatible implementations. On the other hand, we should also not mandate open protocols and not scream bloody murder every time someone comes up with a proprietary system or puts up barriers to interoperability.
As for home automation, there is no "monopoly" and no sign of one: there are a dozen different standards, some open, some mildly proprietary, and some completely proprietary, plus hundreds of vendors. Let the market decide which model works best. I don't think it will be full ZigBee, because that "standard" is a mess.
Don't fucking buy this Internet of Things, crap.
Don't trust that you aren't getting screwed in the deal. Don't trust that your security isn't being left up to some greedy asshole of an MBA. Don't trust that it isn't designed first and foremost for analytics and ads to make even more money for those greedy assholes.
Stop buying into this garbage, you don't need your damned phone to be able to control your lights.
Feel like you're getting screwed in the process? Don't play the game.
Millions of people every day go through their lives without needing a bloody app for this shit. Stop worshiping technology and realize just what this stuff is ... marketing hype made by lazy, greedy idiots who don't give a crap about you.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Frank Herbert wrote a series of novels and short stories about a future in which the Government had become efficient, and because of that, sorely oppressive. In order to restore basic freedoms, a Ministry of Sabotage was instituted, whose job it was to throw wrenches into Government projects, especially ones that intruded into the basic freedoms of the populace.
Edward Snowden comes to mind...
Don't take life too seriously; it isn't permanent.
We'll want our light bulbs to communicate with a central controller, regardless of manufacturer. We'll want our clothes to communicate with our dishwasher and our cars to communicate with traffic signs.
No, we don't. I do not want Nest security cameras telling me that they are turned off while still sending video and sound to Nest (and various scummy federal agencies). I do not want my refrigerator telling my insurance company that I bought a cube of butter instead of margarine. I do not want my television telling a network advertising executive that I changed channels during their commercial. I do not want a "smart" power meter telling criminals when I am not at home. IT'S NONE OF THEIR F-ING BUSINESS!
The internet of things, to me, is a set of devices and items that are connected to a network and are accessible to me via my own services, should I choose to have them. A network connected fridge that can signal that it is warm on my LAN to have said signal picked up by my HA unit which then messages me is what I envision. No where in that vision does my LAN even need to be connected to the internet proper. In fact, I'd be most happy if my HA LAN was not connected to the internet in any way.
Of course, such a vision follows more along the lines of SNMP LAN type operations, with a standard messaging format being all that's required. A device is compatible with the protocol, and we're good to go. I don't need a $10 / month service to let me visualize my freezers power usage.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
m'kay
Maybe, maybe some people will roll their own, however you can expect 'services' to be bundled with the commercial devices. Services that exercise 'intellectual property' to lock you out, require internet access for 'updates' and that have 'click through' product acceptance which relinquishes the right to control what they do with your data and whether you are limited to arbitration (you are) instead of suing if you are harmed by their release of the data.
Then the magic begins, they start aggregating your information and building statistical models of whether you are a good customer or not, or is it a good consumer or not.
Oh what fun they will have
I think the SDOs (ISO, ANSI, IEEE, etc) made a fundamental mistake when they decided to accept patented technologies as part of formal (de jure) standards.
If I were King, the FRAND license cost for any patent that appears in a de jure standard would be $0. If the patent-holder won't give up the rights, then the technology should not appear in a standard. Now that clearly would restrict what can be standardized, but that's a tradeoff that both society and patent holders should accept.
(And technology R&D funded by governments should be royalty/license free. DoD certainly used to do that, and look at the advantages -commercial companies- have gotten from the fact that the basic Internet protocols are royalty free/not patented.)
Windows only coming with lunix locked out before any of that and then say go buy to most of the web as they run Linux servers.
Vote trump to kill the job killing bill. Manufacturers already are lining up to send jobs to Vietnam, where the minimum wage is just 52 cents an hour.
The internet of things we're going to have in the future is more like a set of devices and items which must be present on the internet to function and which send your personal data to third parties which monetize it through some combination of data mining what they receive and selling it to other companies.
While your refrigerator may let you know if it gets too warm, it will also inform your doctor and insurance provider that you bought a half gallon of ice cream today rather than celery sticks. Later in the day, it will shut off entirely because a refrigerator virus finally made it to yours via an automatic update from a compromised server, and you'll be forced to purchase a new one
I am aware of where IoT appears to be going. I'm stating that IMNSHO, it is entirely not what I'd envision IoT to be, as IoT should help me, not make me and my activities a product.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
If it was a reasonably spec'd out system, you'd just plug and play. All you'd need is a hub or a service running that would interact. Need a new device, add it to the service or hub. It's a pretty simple system, as long as monetizing your activities and data stays out of it.
I'm currently hacking some hardware for just this purpose, only because one is not offered that can run without a cloud service.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
John Deer, most car companies, and other big name product vendors that have gone increasingly "computerized" have taken the view that you have at best a "perpetual license" to the software that runs your machine. The fact is that it works in bigger industries only because of the relative benevolence of the companies involved. However, what are you going to do when your self-driving car is 10 years old and needs updates? You're going to have to buy a new one because they may have switched out all of the underlying hardware, firmware and even the embedded OS by then.
IoT will end up in the pile of rejected consumer electronics technologies - like 3D and curved TVs. Companies are desperately looking for the next big thing to foist on consumers.
I've seen IoT devices for the past few years at CES (and I will probably see a ton more next week when I go). The IoT display at the Samsung booth always makes me shake my head. Here is a company that can't manage to keep Android updated on 2 year old mobile devices, but somehow they are going to update my 5 year old refrigerator?.....right.
The biggest problem that IoT has is that mainstream consumers (not you and I on Slashdot) simply view these devices as too complicated and not worth the hassle and expense.
Does your washer and dryer really need Twitter and Facebook? I'll bet most consumers think not.
Make no mistake - some IoT devices will succeed. Most will not.
Bruce, thank you for saying some of what needs to be said.
But please drop the Apple hate—Music downloaded via iTunes can be saved in DRM-free MP3 format, and it has been this way for about 8 years.
And please do not be afraid of bashing the IoT. It is one of the stupidest ideas tht humanity has ever come up with.
No, really, the stupidest. Stupider than eugenics. Stupider than. . . OK, that is about the crown of them all, but please somebody prove me wrong and argue that there was ever a stupider idea than the IoT.
So, you can't see the utility in:
A refrigerator that lets you know you need to pick up milk or eggs, and lets you know when the temperature is out of an acceptable range (door was left open by someone, or there is a problem with cooling) so that you can deal with it before it becomes a major issue like defrosting the whole freezer full of food?
A microwave oven that sends a text message that there is a problem, or when it is time to clean/disenfect
A conventional oven that signals when the roast is ready
A dishwasher that lets you know the load is ready to be emptied or that it needs more fluids added (such as the spot free rinse stuff you add in a second reservoir).
A clothes washer and dryer that lets you know when the load is done so you can switch the loads (oh damn...I left the wash in the washer again...I will have to run it a third time...)
Lightbulbs that can tell you the kid left the lights on so you can turn them off remotely.
Or even what you didn't mention, a garage door opener that can detect it was accidentally left open and notify you, or close itself, or be closed remotely.
Another you didn't mention, a front door lock and bell that can be access remotely, so you can see who is at the door when the doorbell is rung, and allow you to let them in when it is the kid who forgot their key.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?