Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

DoD Award To Recognize Drone Operators (securityweek.com)

Posted by samzenpus on from the here's-your-medal dept.

wiredmikey writes: According to a Pentagon memo due out today, the US military will create a new way to recognize drone operators and other service members who contribute to America's fighting efforts from afar. The military is set to introduce a new "R" designation — known as a "device" — that can be attached to medals given to drone operators and other non-combat troops, such as cyber warriors who hack enemy networks. Former defense secretary Chuck Hagel nixed a proposed new combat medal for US troops who launch drone strikes or cyber attacks, after a torrent of criticism from veterans and lawmakers. Drone pilots have complained of low morale, long hours and of the psychological impacts stemming from killing people remotely.

18 of 144 comments (clear)

  1. Recognize them??? by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For what?

    Aren't military medals supposed to be for noble things like bravery, heroism, or honour? What's honourable about taking out an opponent from so far away that the risk to yourself is nonexistent?

    --
    File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    1. Re:Recognize them??? by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Snipers do, to an extent, put themselves in a line of fire... certainly they are close enough to be facing some personal risk, even if they are hidden. There is always a chance of discovery. Controlling a robot form afar to let it fight for you is not taking any kind of risk at all.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    2. Re:Recognize them??? by argumentsockpuppet · · Score: 2

      Thank you AC for saying what I didn't have the words to.

      Of course there is nuance. It's unavoidable to have to think about the problems genocidal dictators present for the world. Child soldiers, just general oppression and just generally terrible people in positions of power.

      War should never, ever be necessary, but sometimes it's less bad than the alternatives of inaction. Getting sane human beings to willingly kill other people is difficult and comes with consequences. Commenters here seem to be mostly uniform in the idea that trying to kill people without getting killed is cowardice, but it's just what war is about.

      War is about killing the other guy who also loves his country, has a family and is fighting for what he believes in. It is might makes right. And it sucks. It just sucks slightly less than the alternatives.

      Sometimes.

    3. Re:Recognize them??? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Aren't military medals supposed to be for noble things like bravery, heroism, or honour?

      I served in the military, and was awarded several medals. None of them were for bravery, heroism, or honour. Most of them were for being in the right place at the right time, such as the SASM and the NDSM. I also got a NAM, or "atta boy medal" for doing my job during a peacetime deployment.

      I don't see any reason drone operators shouldn't get a medal of their own. They are doing more to earn it than I did.

    4. Re:Recognize them??? by CrankyFool · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, incorrect. While some awards (e.g. the Bronze Star, Medal of Honor) are given for unusual behavior (e.g. heroism), the military has the worlds' original badge system. There are badges for everything. For example, you can get the Silver Chevron if you've served in a war but stateside for at least six months (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...).

      So it's entirely reasonable to say "there's something distinctive about this group that merits its own device" -- most devices have nothing to do with heroism.

    5. Re:Recognize them??? by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I haven't suggested that I don't support military action where it's appropriate, I just don't think that doing what essentially amounts to hiding in a control room potentially many miles away from a target and letting what is basically a robot fight for you is doing anything that is particularly worthy of a medal.

      Medals are for recognition - sure you might be hiding in a control room, but there are circumstances where what you did deserves recognition.

      Drones are often deployed in support roles - providing an eyes in the sky view for the ground team, for example. While out on patrol, the ground team gets pinned because of an unknown shooter. So while their lives are in danger, the drone operator flies around and then sports the shooter and relays their coordinates to the ground team so they know where to look and try to take it out.

      At the end of the mission, those guys on the ground are thankful for the drone operator to provide support - it could've ended very badly. Perhaps the guy in the air conditioned control room stateside should get a little recognition for that? Because I'm sure that team doesn't care about the drone operator's working conditions, but they're damn appreciative he was there.

    6. Re:Recognize them??? by Rinikusu · · Score: 2

      Honorable? Fuck that. As a famous General once said (paraphrased), it's not about dying for your country, but making some other poor bastard die for his. However, it's not just pushing a button, is it? Unless you want to discount what's becoming a huge crisis in mental disorders from drone operation (as the article noted). Killing real, live people on a video screen, it turns out, has quite a bit of psychological baggage that we're beginning to understand. I'm actually relieved that we're finding this out because there's still a ton of people who want to turn people into 24/7 killing machines with no exceptions. It's a micromanaging Officer's wet dream: "Here's the target son, I'm pointing right at it, push the goddamned button or I'll have you court-martialled for insubordination, we don't have time to make a judgement call; Command is always right." At least many soldiers get to exercise some judgement, moral and ethical, whilst on the ground. "Sarge, there's a kid in the road" "Go Around him, give him some candy." vs "Captain, there's a kid in the road." "Fuck that kid, bombs away."

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    7. Re:Recognize them??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not in the business of relieving you of your sense of chivalry and fair combat. If I could kill terrorists with mind bullets or an Android tablet while sipping a mai tai on a beach I would happily do so.

      Drones help good guys kill bad guys in greater comfort. Greater comfort means more dead bad guys. If we make the good guys comfortable enough: eventually we will run out of bad guys and our politicians will have to make up new enemies to kill to keep the war economy going. This is the ultimate goal that we should all aspire to achieve.

      When we question if it is in good taste to take something that is given so freely: America's military is doing it's job well.

      What matters is this:
      Medals inspire young men to imitate success. To me, success is putting bad guys in a hole in the ground. If drone operators do that job well: I want every High School Senior to see them getting a medal so the next generation of drone operators will want to imitate that success.

      The ideal scenario for me is that killing bad guys is so low risk, it is seen as a conventional boring government job and the electorate loses its love affair with putting our men and women in uniform in harm's way.

      Voters say "Support Our Troops" like they wear their favorite athlete's jersey. They like the idea of a fair fight for the same reason they like watching NASCAR(because dog-fighting prison inmates is considered too vulgar and "uncivilized").

      My job will be complete when the words "war" and "murder" leave the same bad taste in your mouth and our killing machines are so good there's a big green button in the White House that instantly neutralizes all dissent from foreigners with no collateral damage to innocent civilians or structures. When we are so good at it: we never have to fight another war again then we can stop giving medals.

      Until then: I say make it shaped like an X-Box controller.

    8. Re:Recognize them??? by sociocapitalist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For what?

      Aren't military medals supposed to be for noble things like bravery, heroism, or honour? What's honourable about taking out an opponent from so far away that the risk to yourself is nonexistent?

      Which is exactly why their morale is so low - which in turn is what military medals are for...to raise the morale of someone doing a shit job well so that they keep doing it well.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    9. Re:Recognize them??? by dwillden · · Score: 2, Informative

      His safety is not a criteria. He was there dong the job as needed. The pilot of the AC130 that could have been circling overhead instead of the drone would get an award for flying in circles while others aimed the guns and fired all at no more risk than any other flight. Further the AC130 pilot is just flying in circles over a spot, the Drone pilot is not only guiding the drone but targeting living human beings and blowing them up. Something that is psychologically damaging to do day in and day out, knowing it's not just a video game but real humans whose lives are being violently terminated.

      The actions performed that shape and affect the battlefield are what matter, no matter how they are performed. The intel analyst sitting on a secure base that connects the dots revealing the enemy plans in time for the combat troops to thwart them gets rewarded, so should the drone pilot. There are various levels of awards. Yes some do or at least should involve some personal risk. But there are instances for just about every award but the CHM where it is awarded without direct combat involvement.

      Napoleon was not wrong when he declared, "give me enough ribbon and I can conquer the world." Recognition is a key component in morale and promoting future efforts to excel. I agree that they should not be handed out like tic tacs, and they should never be rank based (sadly some units have determined combat medals based on ranks) but they do in fact need to be handed out for all aspects of the war fighting effort.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    10. Re:Recognize them??? by shawn2772 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And this is what we're reduced to. Now we have participation trophies in the military. Everyone's a winner. What's the point of these if everyone gets them?

      There are different medals for different things, and you'd better believe that members of the military look at, say, a Silver Star or a Distinguished Service Medal very differently from an achievement medal. Medals of lower value do still have value. The offer a chance for recognition in front of your peers, in a persistent way (since you wear ribbons or medals on some of your uniforms), they provide a persistent proof of competence and capability in your personnel file (helpful for determining promotions), and they document important and meaningful aspects of your career, such as that you were in an active combat theater with its concomitant risks, even if you didn't actually get injured or do anything heroic. To an experienced service member, a glance at another person's "fruit salad" tells you a lot about who they are and what they've done, not merely by the number of commendations but by their type.

    11. Re:Recognize them??? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      He didn't put his own safety on the line to go help out his buddies, he just leant slightly on the joystick and told them what he saw.

      There is all manner of tit candy to be handed out, and it isn't all for the ground or forward troops.

      Your you have to be in imminent danger of death or GTFO outlook is a little insulting to the 80 percent of soldiers who aren't there, but for whom those on the front line wouldn't be able to do there job.

      Someone keeps those tanks and planes and ships running, and they take their jobs very seriously, and the people in those tanks and planes and ships are thankful they do.

      And just to piss ya off, here is some of that tit candy. Make certain you scroll through it so as to see it isn't all for combat.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    12. Re:Recognize them??? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Please, please tell me you're being a brat here. I'm a Veteran, an Infantryman and think that any 'medal' to a drone pilot is ridiculous;

      Go down through the list and tell us which awards and medals shouldn't be handed out:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Some will probably really get you pissed, like the efficiency awards or the good behavior awards, professional development medals.

      Some are just recognition medals, like the Coast Guard person of the year medal.

      Tit candy. It's part of the culture, and used as a morale and team booster. I'm surprised that someone who served is apparently against that.

      Certainly in Pop culture, there is the impression that there isn't much other than the Medal of Honor, Bronze Star and Purple Heart. There is so much more, and a drone pilot recognition medal isn't any less applicable than any of the others.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  2. "psychological impacts" by firewrought · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the psychological impacts stemming from killing people remotely

    Also called conscience, but no worries... a little piece of decorative metal will make it so worth it!

    --
    -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    1. Re:"psychological impacts" by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      Yes the Drone papers give some insight into that aspect https://theintercept.com/drone...
      The conscience side is been worked on too. Expect a lot of new very well funded Hollywood movies, TV series, comics, books and other web 2.0 media to show a nice new friendly side to the contractor remote military industrial complex.
      With the Smith–Mundt Act been reworked to allow domestic propaganda Smith–Mundt Act a flood of domestic good news stories can be gov funded to win hearts and minds about the use of drones soon.
      "'Anti-Propaganda' Ban Repealed, Freeing State Dept. To Direct Its Broadcasting Arm At American Citizens" (2013/07/15)
      https://www.techdirt.com/artic...

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  3. Re:The Yellowbelly Medal by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Like, say, Generals?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. Re:No. by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just because you have a history of some people in your family getting medals for doing some real combat doesn't change the fact that medals are given out for a wide variety of reasons, not all of them to do with combat, and in some cases given out without even being at war, or for just being deployed in the correct country not necessarily doing any combat.

  5. Re: No. by torstenvl · · Score: 2

    I think you misread the article. They are specifically NOT combat awards. They will have an R device, not a V device (for valor).

    By the way, I think your post was unnecessarily inflammatory. Drone operators are military members. They still deploy when and where they're told. They still show up on terrorist target lists for stateside attacks. Calling them "joystick jockeys" and comparing them to Call of Duty gamers is petulant. They've done more to risk their lives for the country than most.