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KDE Plasma 5.5 Has Matured Past the Point of Plasma 4 (phoronix.com)

Posted by Soulskill on from the time-to-direct-the-complain-cannon-at-something-else dept.

An anonymous reader writes: KDE's Plasma 5 desktop received a lot of early heat for being unstable, missing functionality compared to the older Plasma 4, and other changes that irritated Linux desktop users. Fortunately, with the recent release of Plasma 5.5, they have hit a stage where there's fairly wide agreement that Plasma 5 has now matured past the point of Plasma 4. Ken Vermette looked meticulously at the KDE stack for 2016, including how it's working on Wayland, the setup, widgets, various new features, and more.

21 of 111 comments (clear)

  1. Of course ... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They've added 1.5 to the version, of course it has matured.

    I remember over the years companies taking v1.1 and renaming it v 8.1 or something equally stupid ... because clearly lying about the major version number means the product has matured.

    Version numbers are cheap, and in the hands of marketing they can say anything you want them to. ;-)

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  2. I'll have to give it another look.... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 2
    ... the last time I tried out KDE, I was frustrated that I was not able to configure it to remember any window's size and position upon closing that window, so that it would be the same size/position the next time I opened it. To me, that seemed like second nature for a desktop interface.

    .
    The best I was able to do was to get a window to be centered on the screen when I opened it.

    1. Re:I'll have to give it another look.... by realmolo · · Score: 2

      Do ANY Linux desktop environments save window position? I don't think any of them do. It's up to the developer of the application to handle that, under Linux.

      And you know what? The "your window position isn't always saved" thing drives me NUTS on Linux. It's one of the little "fit and finish" things that Windows and OS X do so well, but never seems to get taken care of with Linux DEs.

    2. Re:I'll have to give it another look.... by Tough+Love · · Score: 3

      ... the last time I tried out KDE, I was frustrated that I was not able to configure it to remember any window's size and position upon closing that window, so that it would be the same size/position the next time I opened it.

      Really? All versions of kde I have used have been able to do this, with varying degrees of convenience. In KDE 5, right click on the title bar and go to "more actions".

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re:I'll have to give it another look.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      KDE has allowed you to *set* window position for many years now. In addition, the WM allows you to configure absolute window position/size/opacity/etc. on a per-window basis. Every one of my main windows has a pre-configured size and position.

    4. Re:I'll have to give it another look.... by monkeyhybrid · · Score: 2

      It's one of the little "fit and finish" things that Windows and OS X do so well

      I'm not sure I'd say OS X does it well, from my experience at least. It seems to work fine most of the time but some of the core utilities, especially Finder, 'forget' their window size on seemingly ransom occasions and it annoys the hell out of me.

      On the other hand, most (if not all) of the GUI applications I tend to use in KDE remember their size and position without a hitch. Things like Dolphin and Konsole, that I am very particular about in their arrangement, open up in the same layout every time. Granted, that's probably down to the apps, not the OS, but I can't say it's ever bothered me.

    5. Re:I'll have to give it another look.... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 2

      I am not talking about me digging through menus to *set* the size/position, but the desktop remembering the size/position by itself when I adjust it ion the desktop. I've been down the path of having to dig through menus set the size/position on a per-window basis, and it was not enjoyable.

    6. Re:I'll have to give it another look.... by monkeyhybrid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd agree that some of the community doesn't think about stuff like that, but on the whole, KDE is the least frustrating desktop environment I've ever used. And I've probably used more than most.

      I'm not saying it's not without its faults, but KDE actually has plenty of very thoughtful touches, sane defaults and UI polish. OS X is generally pretty good and then there is Windows, 'nuff said.

      All just my personal opinion of course. When it comes to things like GUIs, different people will always favour different ways of doing things.

    7. Re:I'll have to give it another look.... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2

      I am not talking about me digging through menus to *set* the size/position, but the desktop remembering the size/position by itself when I adjust it ion the desktop.

      Would a window menu item to the effect of "save window as default" do what you want?

      This would let you:
        - easily update the window default parameters without hunting for and tuning its defaults in some other menu.
        - only do it when you WANT to - thus not annoying other users who don't want it to work this way (and also not causing you to lose the window because you happened to move it when you DIDN'T intend to make it live there later).

      As for "switching platforms" (i.e. starting a new desktop on a display where the window would be offscreen), the window manager could open it somewhere it picked that was ON the smaller desktop, without updating the default, so it would be back where it should be the next time you're at your usual display.

      (For the record: I just thought of this, and have no idea if anyone else has done this before. I'm perfectly happy for open source - or other - projects to use these ideas, if they happen to be new. So this posting can serve as "prior art" if somebody tries to patent it in the future.)

      --
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    8. Re:I'll have to give it another look.... by dcooper_db9 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      IIRC this feature existed when 4 came out and it's been there since.
      1. Position and size your window as you want it in the future.
      2. Right click on the title bar
      3. More Actions:Special Window Settings
      4. Size and Position tab
      5. Check Position
      6. Change the dropdown to "Remember" (or force if you don't want it to be movable). Note that KDE recognizes the current size and position of the window. You can override these numbers if you like
      7. Do the same with Size
      8. Explore. There are a ton of refinements in these settings.
      9. If you want to adjust the window settings later they're found under Settings:Workspace:Window Management:Window Rules
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    9. Re:I'll have to give it another look.... by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

      Are any of those zillions, "remember the last size and position of the window when reopening it"?

      Yes, why are you asking? It's right there, your options are: "do not affect"; "apply initially"; "remember"; "force"; "apply now"; "force temporarily". Overkill if anything.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    10. Re:I'll have to give it another look.... by 1369IC · · Score: 2

      Pretty sure fluxbox (admittedly a WM, not a DE) does. From the wiki: "It is possible to force an application to always have the same dimensions, position, and other settings when it is first launched. These settings are saved in the ‘apps’ file. Most simple settings can be saved using the “Remember” submenu of the window menu, which can usually be opened with a right-click on the titlebar."

  3. Yeah... by szo · · Score: 3, Informative

    No

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    1. Re:Yeah... by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wow, that is a monumentally stupid bug. I mean, really YYYY-MM-DD is the only thing which results in any sensible lexical ordering of dates, and remove the most ambiguity.

      This tells me shiny is taking precedence over useful.

      That's insane.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Yeah... by thoromyr · · Score: 2

      Holy cow that is awful. Although I've been using KDE for the last fifteen years or so my current workstation is KDE only because of long refresh cycles. Since I can't have KDE 3 I think I'll switch to MATE. Not great, but better than that.

      For those who can't be bothered to follow the link: one of the "improvements" in KDE 5 is removing Locale and using Qt's limited locale functionality. Which eliminated nearly all locale configurability. The lack of configurability won't be fixed by the KDE team because it is a feature of their elimination of KDE's locale.

      I didn't see it stated, but I expect Qt won't add it because the configurability belongs in the desktop manager, not individual applications. In other words, if your locale is "US" then you get the stupid US date format (I only ever use YYYY-MM-DD) and similar stupidity. In KDE 5 your locale settings can only be what is normal for your region. Don't like it? Find a region that does match what you like (usually not possible) and set it to that. The usability is actually even worse, but for more you'd have to read through the bug report comments.

  4. Different wallpaper for each virtual desktop by anandrajan · · Score: 3, Informative

    Still can't (won't?) do this. And as for Activities, "We don't need no stinking Activities."

    --
    Anand Rangarajan anand@cise.ufl.edu
    1. Re:Different wallpaper for each virtual desktop by anandrajan · · Score: 2

      Yes, this seems to be problematic. The developers are aware of these (see this as well) but it'll take some time to fix the problems.

      --
      Anand Rangarajan anand@cise.ufl.edu
  5. Re:so still not as complete as3.5 then? by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Informative

    so still not as complete as3.5 then?

    And not nearly as polished as 4.10 was, either. Here is a list of just the first few problems that I started to list, before the problems started really piling up:

    * Maximized windows do not have thier scrollbars flush against the screen edge. Thus, Fitt's law cannot be used to quickly put the mouse cursor on the scrollbar.
    * Vertical panel does not auto-hide with second monitor attached.
    * No System Monitor widget. Apparently being worked on.
    * Volume Up cannot be set. Volume Down and mute work fine.
    * Krunner no longer accepts Bash commands. I have a bash command that I run periodically, this would work in Krunner in KDE 4 but does not work in KDE 5.
    * The panel app freezes often. I can intermittently freeze the panel by clicking on More Settings in the panel configuration toolbar.
    * Lots of crashes, most of which are not reproducible. I've had the Plasma Panel crash, System Settings, and other applications.
    * Keyboard Layout indicator missing.
    * Keyboard State widget disappears from the system tray, no resolution in the KDE forums.

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  6. Re:so still not as complete as3.5 then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    * Maximized windows do not have thier scrollbars flush against the screen edge. Thus, Fitt's law cannot be used to quickly put the mouse cursor on the scrollbar.
    > try setting the window border size to 0. Most people I know don't care about Fitt's law, though.

    * Vertical panel does not auto-hide with second monitor attached.
    > "Panel Settings -> More Settings -> Auto Hide". Not too bad, is it? Oh, it crashes before you can see that.. doesn't crash in my distro.

    * No System Monitor widget. Apparently being worked on.
    > "Panel Settings -> Add Widgets -> System Load Viewer".. or did you want something else?

    * Volume Up cannot be set. Volume Down and mute work fine.
    > I haven't had any problems increasing the volume..

    * Krunner no longer accepts Bash commands. I have a bash command that I run periodically, this would work in Krunner in KDE 4 but does not work in KDE 5.
    > See if your distribution disabled the "Command Line" krunner. My distribution didn't, so I've never run into this.

    * The panel app freezes often. I can intermittently freeze the panel by clicking on More Settings in the panel configuration toolbar.
    > I've had one or two panel crashes, but it doesn't happen very often at all. The "More Settings" works fine for me.

    * Lots of crashes, most of which are not reproducible. I've had the Plasma Panel crash, System Settings, and other applications.
    > Again, I haven't run into many crashes..

    * Keyboard Layout indicator missing.
    > huh.. so it is. I'm sure a widget will be coming soon.

    * Keyboard State widget disappears from the system tray, no resolution in the KDE forums.
    > Looks like it only shows up when a state is enabled.. weird, but hardly qualifying as a "Problem with the desktop"

    Sure you can be picky about the Plasma 5.5 not being Plasma 4. Notice how the OP freely admits to using fuzzy logic here..
    "where there's fairly wide agreement that Plasma 5 has now matured past the point of Plasma 4". You many not be among the people in wide agreement with this statement, but the "evidence" you've posted doesn't seem bad enough to be characterized as "problems".

    Sounds like you might need to switch distributions. Try OpenSUSE LEAP. No real problems with KDE over here :^)

  7. systemd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Once Poettering releases kerneld, he can start working on winmanagerd and denvironmentd for all the new systemd/kerneld distros.

  8. You can use KDE 3D compositing with other DE's by Sadsfae · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've switched back and forth to just about every *NIX Desktop Environment since I started using Linux in 1999, loved KDE 3.x, loathed KDE 4.x until it became stable and used KDE 5.x on and off. The good thing about KDE is that the windowing and 3D effects subsystem is modular.

    I'm pretty much settled on using XFCE but I'm using KWIN KDE compositing/3D effects with XFCE for a nice compromise between a 'classic' desktop that's rock solid but with the nice themes, windowing effects and features that KWIN (KDE's compositor) brings to the table.

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