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The 40,000-Mile Volcano (nytimes.com)
An anonymous reader writes: The NY Times reports on one of the wonders of the underwater world: the extensive web of volcanoes and hydrothermal vents present where tectonic plates meet and grind against one another. "Welcome to one of the planet's most obscure but important features, known rather prosaically as the midocean ridges. Though long enough to circle the moon more than six times, they receive little notice because they lie hidden in pitch darkness." The magma seeping through these cracks generate massive amounts of heat — enough to sustain incredible ecosystems.
But as scientists have gained a deeper understanding of this geological phenomenon, they realize it's more chaotic than they had imagined. "The old idea was that the eruptions of oozing lava and related activity occurred at fairly steady rates. Now, studies hint at the existence of outbursts large enough to influence not only the character of the global sea but the planet's temperature. Experts believe the activity may carry major repercussions because the oceanic ridges account for some 70 percent of the planet's volcanic eruptions. By definition, that makes them enormous sources of heat and exotic minerals as well as such everyday gases as carbon dioxide, which all volcanoes emit."
But as scientists have gained a deeper understanding of this geological phenomenon, they realize it's more chaotic than they had imagined. "The old idea was that the eruptions of oozing lava and related activity occurred at fairly steady rates. Now, studies hint at the existence of outbursts large enough to influence not only the character of the global sea but the planet's temperature. Experts believe the activity may carry major repercussions because the oceanic ridges account for some 70 percent of the planet's volcanic eruptions. By definition, that makes them enormous sources of heat and exotic minerals as well as such everyday gases as carbon dioxide, which all volcanoes emit."
The evidence that humans are making a difference in the CO2 levels is found by checking the ratios of different CO2 isotopes. Plants have a different ratio of isotopes than fossil fuels. See this link for more info.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Note that "midoceanic ridges" doesn't entirely mean "underwater ridges". I happen to live in a place where the ridge breaks the surface - by several kilometers in places. You can investigate the mid-Atlantic ridge (at least a small part of it) right here on the surface, no subs needed. You can also check out part of the ridge in freshwater.
One of the common misconceptions is that there's a single fissure that makes up the "ridge". The reality is that there's a whole chain of meandering but largely parallel grabens (sharp-sided tectonic valleys), fissure-volcanic ridges, and individual volcanoes. It doesn't always break at the same place, it breaks over dozens to hundreds of kilometers on either side of the "average" centerline of the ridge. Also, the volcanism can be quite diverse. Here we have everything from basalt to rhyolite, deep-sourced and shallow-sourced magma, gas-rich and gas-poor magmas, widely varying levels of sulfur and fluorine emissions, etc.
He's the sort of person who would sell the Red Cross to Dracula.
A single volcano can have a greater environmental impact in a single day than millions of people have over their entire lives.
When there are many of these volcanoes, and they have ongoing eruptions day after day, they'd of course have an absolutely massive impact, far beyond even what billions of humans could ever do.
Goddamnit, do I really have to go digging through my post history to find that data again?
Here, from all the way back in October, the last time I saw someone pull some stupid assertion out of their ass like you just did:
Throughout the world, in a year all volcanoes combined (above and below water) emit around 145 to 255 million tons of CO2. In the US, forest fires release around 290 million tons every year. That's great. Maybe people have contributed to worse fires in recent decades, maybe overall not so much. Either way, it's in the range of several hundred million tons of CO2 every year.
The largest coal power plant, in Taiwan, releases 40 million tons per year. That means that, at the low range of estimates for volcanoes, only 4 of those power plants would emit more CO2 than all volcanoes on the planet. China alone emits over 10 billion tons per year. That is far more than all forest fires. The US is about half that, about 5.3 billion tons. Overall, people emit over 30 billion tons in CO2 through burning of fossil fuels (power plants, cars, etc), and that level has nearly tripled in the past 15 years.
So, Mr. Fucking Genius, if you think that volcanoes would "of course have an absolutely massive impact, far beyond even what billions of humans could ever do", tell me, is 255 million tons more or less than 30 billion tons? Because, and I'm not a math major or anything, but it sounds to me like we would need 117 times as many active volcanoes on the planet to reach the level of CO2 that is output by human activity. I'll post your assertion here again, just to highlight how goddamn stupid and completely uneducated it is:
A single volcano can have a greater environmental impact in a single day than millions of people have over their entire lives.
When there are many of these volcanoes, and they have ongoing eruptions day after day, they'd of course have an absolutely massive impact, far beyond even what billions of humans could ever do.
At 30 billion tons per year, it takes an average of FOUR DAYS for us to emit more CO2 than all volcanoes do in a year.
As soon as I read the summary I knew that some idiot was going to post something about global warming, I didn't expect that the very first post would be some idiot saying "therefore, this explains everything."
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
This sounds like a very plausible source for the extra heat that's causing what environmentalists/leftists like to call "Global Warming".
These environmentalists/leftists have been blaming humans the whole time, yet now it turns out that it's undersea volcanoes that are responsible, and not people.
It actually makes a lot of sense that volcanoes would be responsible.
A single volcano can have a greater environmental impact in a single day than millions of people have over their entire lives.
When there are many of these volcanoes, and they have ongoing eruptions day after day, they'd of course have an absolutely massive impact, far beyond even what billions of humans could ever do.
Undersea volcanoes heat the water. The water melts the polar caps. The polar caps add more liquid water to the oceans, which is heated by these volcanoes. The water heats the air.
This explains all of the "Global Warming" that has been blamed on humans by environmentalists/leftists. It explains the sea level changes. It explains it all.
The question you need to ask is has the rate of eruptions on the mid ocean ridges changed significantly over the past century. The mid ocean ridge in the Atlantic has existed since the breakup of Pangaea 150-175 million years ago. There have undoubtedly been times of greater and lesser activity over that time period but to postulate that all of a sudden 100 years ago or so the activity increased enough to force the changes we're seeing is pushing it. You will definitely need some scientific evidence to back that up.
The thing about volcanoes is yes, they are spectacular from a human perspective but the amount of CO2 they emit and heat they release is relatively insignificant compared to human emissions and the amount of heat pouring on to the Earth daily from the Sun. Even a 40,000 mile long volcano is not going to release much heat compared to daily insolation.
You're on the right track but actually plants and fossil fuels (which after all are largely derived from plants) have similar isotopic ratios. This is because organic processes prefer the lighter 12C to 13C isotope. But in the non-organic area there is no such preference so the 13C/12C ratio is higher than in organic sources. The dropping 13C/12C ratio in the atmosphere is an indication that much of the extra CO2 comes from fossil fuel burning. Sources of non-organic CO2 include volcanoes and making cement.
Umm...I'm not an expert on the subject, but I think I wouldn't be wrong if I suggested that volcanic CO2 is neither plant nor fossil fuel based.