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US Modernizes Nuclear Arsenal With Smaller, Precision-Guided Atomic Weapons (nytimes.com)

HughPickens.com writes: The NY Times reports that the Pentagon has been developing the B61 Model 12, the nation's first precision-guided atom bomb. Adapted from an older weapon, the Model 12 was designed with problems like North Korea in mind: Its computer brain and four maneuverable fins let it zero in on deeply buried targets like testing tunnels and weapon sites and its yield can be dialed up or down depending on the target, to minimize collateral damage. The B61 Model 12 flight-tested last year in Nevada and is the first of five new warhead types planned as part of an atomic revitalization estimated to cost up to $1 trillion over three decades. As a family, the weapons and their delivery systems move toward the small, the stealthy and the precise.

And some say that's the problem. The Federation of American Scientists argues that the high accuracy and low destructive settings means military commanders might press to use the bomb in an attack, knowing the radioactive fallout and collateral damage would be limited. Increasing the accuracy also broadens the type of targets that the B61 can be used to attack. Some say that a new nuclear tipped cruise missile under development might sway a future president to contemplate "limited nuclear war." Worse yet, because the missile comes in nuclear and non-nuclear varieties, a foe under attack might assume the worst and overreact, initiating nuclear war. In a recent interview, General James Cartwright, a retired four-star general who last served as the eighth Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff says the overall modernization plan might change how military commanders looked at the risks of using nuclear weapons. "What if I bring real precision to these weapons?" says Cartwright. "Does it make them more usable? It could be."

16 of 230 comments (clear)

  1. Good? by LMariachi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Federation of American Scientists argues that the high accuracy and low destructive settings means military commanders might press to use the bomb in an attack, knowing the radioactive fallout and collateral damage would be limited.

    Aren't fallout and collateral damage the main problems people have with nuclear weapons? Without those factors The Bomb wouldn't have that enormous stigma attached to it, it would be just another bomb, albeit larger. Since the Cold War is over, and since everyone involved knows that smaller tactical nukes exist, there's no reason that the response to any and all non-testing nuclear explosion has to be full-on empty the silos.

    1. Re:Good? by JoshuaZ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not using nuclear weapons at all is an important taboo precisely because it can get out of hand so quickly. No nuclear launches is a clear bright line, in some sense a Schelling point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_point_(game_theory) . Once small nukes are in use, the bright line no longer exists.

    2. Re:Good? by Rei · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The concern is and always has been stepping over the red "no nukes allowed" line. Once both sides of a conflict start playing with nukes, even if it starts out with small, tactical, targeted nukes, the other side will too, and whichever side is losing will be tempted to scale up, and ultimately you're opening up the risk of escalation into full blown strategic nuclear exchange. It's been the key reason why tactical nukes have been largely avoided for so long. The consequences of nuclear war ever breaking out between major powers are just so atrocious that one doesn't want to play lightly with anything that could make it easier to happen. Even when one side isn't a major power, we all know that these regional conflicts have a habit of escalating, and that different sides have a habit of misestimating how much of a line they're stepping over from the perspective of their rivals.

      That said, the US may forced into this whether they want to or not, given that Russia's been developing - and has started deploying - tactical nuclear delivery systems. They've really been waving around their "nuclear card" a lot lately - my favorite was when they "accidentally" let a news camera capture a picture of design plans for a submarine-based cobalt bomb doomsday device among papers an officer was carrying.

      Nuclear war gaming is a really morbid topic... the whole "if we do X, then they're going to do Y, then we'll have to do Z" thing, because the casualty numbers are so absurd... "If we do X here, then their attack will only kill between 6,3 and 7,5 million people, but our counter will kill between 23 and 26 million people, so that works out well to our favor..." The fact that even a "win" is really a devastating loss to the victor is what led to the concept of MAD.

      Even on the battlefield it leads to weird situations. For example, part of the reason that neutron bombs were developed was the realization that should Soviet forces (which stressed a "deep battle" doctrine involving huge numbers of rapidly advancing tanks) flood into western Europe, the west could use nuclear weapons against their forces to try to stop them, but tanks tend to have a habit of surviving nuclear blasts unless they're near the epicenter. The radiation load might be fatal to the crew, but that could take days or more, and meanwhile the Soviet "zombie crews" could have taken control of a large chunk of Europe before they become too sick to continue. With neutron bombs, Soviets would have to respond by spreading their tanks out more, which greatly reduces their ability to be defended and supplied. It's possible to make tanks resistant to neutrons by incorporating neutron absorbers, such as boron, or moderators like hydrogen... but ironically the depleted uranium sometimes used in tank armour these days could actually enhance the yield of the radiation by undergoing fast fission.

      Oh, and it's worth pointing out that dial-a-yield nuclear bombs are often effectively neutron bombs at their lower yield settings.

      --
      He's the sort of person who would sell the Red Cross to Dracula.
    3. Re:Good? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Once both sides of a conflict start playing with nukes, even if it starts out with small, tactical, targeted nukes, the other side will too, and whichever side is losing will be tempted to scale up, "

      Even if the conflict is with a non-nuclear country, or one with no long-distance delivery technology, there is a fear that a contained strike, say the US blasting an ISIS underground redoubt, would 'normalize' nuclear warfare in the future.

    4. Re:Good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Like most weapons systems that will never be used, this is another example of the US taxpayer getting shafted by defense contractors. Fallout limited? That is pure nonsense. Face it folks, we keep getting fleeced by the government and their buddies in the "defense" industry. This is another in a long string of wasteful expenditures for hardware that will sit unused until we have to pay to dismantle them 50 years from now. Stop acting like weapons are cool. They aren't. That money could be spent on fixing our busted infrastructure if you push your representatives to stop wasting so much money on weapons and war.

      Apparently, the word 'deterrent' doesn't exist in the "doctor" has on his desk.

    5. Re:Good? by blackanvil · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Once both sides of a conflict start playing with nukes, even if it starts out with small, tactical, targeted nukes, the other side will too, and whichever side is losing will be tempted to scale up, "

      Even if the conflict is with a non-nuclear country, or one with no long-distance delivery technology, there is a fear that a contained strike, say the US blasting an ISIS underground redoubt, would 'normalize' nuclear warfare in the future.

      Not to mention that if the fallout is encountered by even one citizen of another nuclear state, let alone an embassy or crosses a border into a nuclear armed country, they may well consider that an attack and retaliate. Nuking Daesh should be safe-ish in that one regard, but even there you have Israel (still denying they have nukes), would they show restraint if, say, fallout from a Russian nuke contaminated their northern territories? How would Turkey, a member of NATO, respond if their country was irradiated? If a Chinese embassy was rendered uninhabitable by fallout, what would they do? Best to leave that can of radioactive worms unopened.

  2. This has obvious value by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1) China and Russia are likely to do the same thing eventually. Russia in particular is pumping a lot of money into modernizing their nukes. Do we really want to end up having to catch up here?
    2) This might make China and Russia less likely to start some crap if they fear that the US might nuke them in retaliation. There are a lot of countries that would be really happy if both China and Russia would calm down right now.

    1. Re:This has obvious value by TheReaperD · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hate replying to myself but, I had an extra item to add and we can't edit here.

      The problem that the US has had in the middle east is that we have tried all three general policies: diplomacy only, limited engagement and full regime change. The end result has been similar in all three, all the countries involved and their neighbors hate us, people have vowed to get revenge on us for our actions (or inactions) and it has been a large to huge drain on the national treasury. Limited engagement seems to have had the fewest US lives lost and tend to be the cheapest, even above diplomacy. The problem with this option is that you have to support one the the existing factions and when it comes to the middle-east, factions that we find acceptable to our policy goals is next to impossible (see Libya and our current problems with [IS/ISIS/ISIL/Daesh]). It's literally a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
  3. Of course... by cirby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The FAS also claimed that more-precise weapons back in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s would cause nuclear war.

    And that a missile defense system would cause nuclear war (except for the one the Soviets built and still use, of course).

    Oddly enough, over the last half-century, none of the things the FAS said would increase the chances of a nuclear war actually caused a nuclear war. The things that nearly caused WWIII were things they never actually mentioned...

  4. The point of nukes by sjbe · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Aren't fallout and collateral damage the main problems people have with nuclear weapons?

    No. The main problem is that they are weapons of mass destruction that can vaporize entire cities in an instant. They are weapons that are specifically designed to kill a large number of people over a large area very quickly. THAT is the main problem with them. Let's not lose sight of why nukes are scary. The fallout merely adds the problem.

    The term collateral damage when applied to nukes is kind of meaningless. The entire point of a nuke is to destroy everything in a rather large radius. There really is no such thing as collateral damage when using explosions of that size because you are unavoidably and intentionally targeting non-combatants and infrastructure when you make the decision to use one. Yes this remains true for "tactical nukes" too.

    1. Re:The point of nukes by DarkOx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The term collateral damage when applied to nukes is kind of meaningless.

      Not at all. In the context of "Total War" collateral damage would be harm done to to you or your allies. Destruction of an entire enemy city and nothing else would be zero collateral damage. You are attempting to destroy their will and ability to make war. You break the their means of production, you break their will to fight when they realize their homes and loved ones cannot be protected thru their military efforts. The destruction of non-combatants and infrastructure is valid and I would argue even moral warefare tactic if you yourself are in fact under mortal threat, maybe even if the threat you face falls well below that level.

      There was for example little or no "collateral damage" when we bombed Japan, or for that matter Dresden.

      Considering Syria today and the siege warfare taking place, I am not even so sure its all that great the UN and various groups are getting food aide in. If the public was starving so to would eventually the combatants (though probably only after mass non-com casualties because after all the solders will be the last not to eat they have guns after all). Short of starving I am not sure what it will take to get these various groups to give up the fight. By getting food in their we prolong the siege, and the bloodshed.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    2. Re:The point of nukes by evilviper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The main problem is that they are weapons of mass destruction that can vaporize entire cities in an instant.

      Non-nuclear devices like the FOAB can do much the same.

      Conventional napalm destroyed Japanese & German cities, and killed as many people as the first atomic bombs, yet it doesn't have the stigma.

      The fallout merely adds the problem. The term collateral damage when applied to nukes is kind of meaningless.

      Quite the opposite. Collateral damage is a huge issue with nukes. Haven't you ever heard of Nuclear Winter? Destroying the ability of the entire planet to sustain life, and for years to come, is about the biggest glaring example of collateral damage you could ever come-up with.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    3. Re:The point of nukes by swb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There was for example little or no "collateral damage" when we bombed Japan, or for that matter Dresden.

      There was huge amounts of what we today call collateral damage, but back then they didn't use the term "collateral damage".

      Now it's "collateral damage" because we're killing a bunch of civilians or destroying civil infrastructure we'd rather not.

      Then it wasn't collateral damage because we MEANT to kill civilians and destroy civil infrastructure because we believed that breaking the enemy's ability and will to fight would aid our war effort and shorten the war.

      That's why it's called total warfare (or scorched Earth warfare) -- you don't want the enemy to have ANYTHING that enables them to fight, and that includes a population able to function at any meaningful level of productivity, and they aren't very productive if they are starving, homeless and lacking any infrastructure that enables them to be productive.

      This was the partial goal of the allied military and very much part of the post-war pacification of Germany, where deliberate allied policies forced the population into famine and stripped them of much of their industrial capacity. Make no mistake, there was no accidental, collateral damage to German civilians, it was a deliberate policy during and after the war to crush the German population into submission.

  5. Not sure what the issue is here by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We've had precision guided nuclear capable weapons systems for years.
    Just to pick one ( since it was my particular specialty for years ): the Tomahawk Cruise Missile.

    The Block III variant came in four fantastic standard flavors that could be ship, air and even sub-surface launched:

    109A - Nuclear Tipped with a W-80 Warhead. Dial-a-yield of 5kt or 150kt. ( Google the W-80 for more info )
    109B - Anti-ship flavor. Conventional warhead.
    109C - Land-attack flavor. Conventional warhead.
    109D - Land-attack flavor, sub-munitions dispensing warhead.

    This is just the Tomahawk. I haven't kept up with the other cruise missile variants, gravity or guided smart-bombs, or even
    the advances ( if any ) in the ballistic missile platforms.

    So, I'm not entirely sure what all the fuss is about since we've had selective yield weapons since at least the late 70's.
    Personally, since there is no putting the genie back in the bottle, I would prefer a much smaller yield high precision device
    over the city-flattening strategic overkill ones that defined the Cold War era.

    Folks may argue that the desire to use them would increase since they're not as terrible as their strategic brethren, but some
    of these weapons are older than many of the folks reading this and have had this capability the entire time. Yet, we haven't been
    tossing them around en-masse during our many, many conflicts around the world over the years. Unlikely we're going to start now.

  6. Re:Great by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It means you can get it down the entrance tunnel or ventilation shaft of that deep bunker before detonating - destroy the bunker with a smaller warhead than a ground level nuke would need to penetrate.

  7. Re: Great by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Considering even a small nuke would come in at a weight exceeding that of a 2000lb LGB, mass and penetration isnt an issue - and delayed fusing is a norm for most guided munitions these days...

    The point about having a small nuke is that you can take out that deep bunker with much less collateral damage - the deeper and better protected the bunker, the bigger bang you need at the surface, which means more collateral damage. Put the nuke down the ventilation shaft or down the entrance tunnel and you suddenly need much less bang as you are penetrating much less overburden.

    Its the same reason you needed a 20,000lb earthquake bomb in WW2 to take out targets we hit with a 250lb guided munition today.

    And I have no idea what you are talking about regarding wifi.