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Remix OS in Violation of GPL and Apache Licenses (tlhp.cf)
An anonymous reader writes: You may have heard recently of the Remix OS, a fork of Android that targets desktop computing. The operating system, which was created by former Google employees and features a traditional desktop layout in addition to the ability to run Android apps, was previewed on Ars Technica a few weeks ago, but it was not actually released for end-users to download until earlier this week.
Now that Remix OS has been released, The Linux Homefront Project is reporting that the Android-based operating system, for which source code is not readily available, violates both the GPL and the Apache License. The RemixOS installer includes a "Remix OS USB Tool" that is really a re-branded copy of popular disk imaging tool UNetbootin, which falls under the GPL. Additionally, browsing through the install image files reveals that the operating system is based on the Apache Licensed Android-x86 project. From the article: "Output is absolutely clear – no differences! No authors, no changed files, no trademarks, just copy-paste development." Is this a blatant disregard for the GPL and Apache licenses by an optimistic startup, or were the authors too eager to release that they forgot to provide access to the repo?
You're not required to distribute source code when using an Apache license.
Running a diff on the license notices isn't sufficient evidence to claim that there is a violation in the Apache license.
$ diff -u NOTICE-remixos.html NOTICE-andx86.html
Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
It's a little unclear what is official response, what is somebody else's response (e.g. "For the record, I am not a member..." doesn't suggest an authoritative source) and what is actually required. In fairness to them, the major objection in the article is over UNetBootIn - Geza Kovacs (the upstream author) has kindly posted in the comments section: "They seem to have simply followed my instructions for customization [...] so I don't mind."
Lack of responsiveness would obviously be an issue, and one that's easy to confirm, so maybe a big statement in the article saying "I made formal contact directly a week ago and heard nothing back" would have been a good first step to answer "Is this a blatant disregard for the GPL and Apache licenses by an optimistic startup, or were the authors too eager to release that they forgot to provide access to the repo?"
"Make available" != internet GIT access. And you can bet that will be their lawyers stance too.
"If I could find an android desktop os that would work on intel chips, I would switch our school district over in a heartbeat."
Just WOW. Please tell me you arent actually in charge of anything. Android is UTTER SHIT compared to what is available on x86/intel. Its not even CLOSE to comparable. Its like having a banquet in front of you and saying 'nah, ill go with the Jack in the Box'. Please explain how you would MANAGE a network full of android devices in any way similar to a real desktop and network OS.
Good-bye
Have you formally requested the source and provided a blank dvd, or covered reasonable costs?
Have they actively refused to provide the source to people who have asked, or did they just not go out of their way to set up a github and write step by step build instructions and make it super easy for you?
They have to provide a copy of the source code on request.
There's no time constraint how quickly they must respond to a request.
There's no requirement to provide (direct) access to the repository.
Waiting until summer vacation and then emailing the source-code to those who bothered to put forth a request as a split base-64-encoded compressed tarball is fine.
I wish I had mod points.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
Whoopsie.....someone's glad he already gave away his Remix Mini
Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?
Well if your school was using enterprise version of windows, as you should be, and a WSUS, you wouldn't ever see the upgrade to win10 nag. So... you are likely violating your license already. But, I suspect, you are buying bulk laptops and using the OEM version of windows on there. No excuse for that my friend, that's just a lazy IT department.
All copyrights should be outlawed because I have a DAWKINS-granted right to be entertained for free!
Corporations are evil so therefore I don't have to pay!
Oh wait, is it a potential infringement of the GPL?
Nevermind what I just posted, I think we can all agree that summary executions of the offenders without trial is the only fair solution.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
If I could find an android desktop os that would work on intel chips, I would switch our school district over in a heartbeat.
As an Android developer and an Android fan myself, I just have one question for you.
Why in the world would you even do something like that?!?!!!
Android is absolutely great for consuming media and playing games, but it certainly doesn't educate kids, nor does it cure cancer.
Is a subjective word I guess. I don't know anyone that has or cares about any of these projects.
"Please explain how you would MANAGE..."
= you can't.
'Herding jello cats' comes to mind.
The problem here is that the GPL is a very onerous license. The Apache license isn't much better.
Both contain far too much legalese. Read through them if you've never done so in the past. They aren't simple and straightforward like the BSD and MIT licenses are.
Shit, the preamble to the GPLv3 by itself is several times longer than the BSD and MIT licenses are!
For licenses that are supposedly about promoting freedom, the GPL licenses sure do have a lot of restrictions. The BSD and MIT licenses essentially say, "You're free to do what you want with this code." The GPL licenses, on the other hand, essentially say, "You're free to do what you want with this code, BUT if you want to do anything practical with it you're subjected to these numerous restrictive conditions."
Granting freedom doesn't require many words. But using many words when supposedly granting freedom likely means that it isn't freedom that's being granted, but instead it's restrictions that are being granted.
Yeah, as much as I like Android, it is not suitable for desktop systems except for a few special niches.
I can see it making sense for someone to do an HTPC build that was Android-based in order to run Android games. But to be honest a SHIELD Android TV would be an easier/better/likely cheaper solution for Android games, especially since many of them only have ARM native components and have a severe performance hit on x86.
It makes no sense as a desktop/educational OS right now - which is why the Pixel C has been slammed by so many for having an OS inappropriate to the type of product.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Well if your school was using enterprise version of windows, as you should be, and a WSUS, you wouldn't ever see the upgrade to win10 nag. So... you are likely violating your license already.
But, I suspect, you are buying bulk laptops and using the OEM version of windows on there. No excuse for that my friend, that's just a lazy IT department.
Sorry, are you saying the OEM version of Windows is NOT licensed for use in schools?
IANAL but, if there are no changes then it isn't a violation. Similarly as others have noted the Apache license doesn't require the same license be used for derivative works.
Seems like the author isn't really familiar with how open source licensing works and shouldn't be posting sensationalist articles.
Do you think that the tablets and computers used in schools today are really used for education, as opposed to "education".
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
If I could find an android desktop os that would work on intel chips, I would switch our school district over in a heartbeat. All of our students are well versed in the use of Android.
I am sure that your school district cafeterias can be found to be corrupt as well, but that doesn't mean you should just give up and supply all your students with high-sugar-based candies and soda pop every day instead.
How is Remix OS any different from Chrome OS? Just the ability to run Dalvik?
Good luck getting the source of MIUI, etc.
Apache software doesn't require the source to be released. Author thinks all open source software should be released to the masses. People asked for their source code, Jide said no, because they weren't partners and explained that Remix OS itself is not open source.
They even had the author of UNetBootin post in the comments section of the story saying he was fine with what Jide had done. Android-x86 project also seem to be on board from what I can gather.
So what's the problem, other than Jide not doing what the author thinks they should do?
I think he's implying that the school is running a home version of Windows that can't be joined to a Windows Domain and benefit from all the user and config control offered by Active Directory.
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
https://trac.ffmpeg.org/query?...
Parasites, or what exactly are these? Criminals? Is it a crime?
"If I could find an android desktop os that would work on intel chips, I would switch our school district over in a heartbeat."
Just WOW. Please tell me you arent actually in charge of anything. Android is UTTER SHIT compared to what is available on x86/intel. Its not even CLOSE to comparable. Its like having a banquet in front of you and saying 'nah, ill go with the Jack in the Box'. Please explain how you would MANAGE a network full of android devices in any way similar to a real desktop and network OS.
... same way you'd manage corporate Android phones?
Why the backlash? Are children running /. now?
In true /. tradition I did not read TFA. However based on the quoted part ... isn't GPL requiring to publish source code only if they publish a modification of GPL-ed software?
Seriously, these REMix guys should read Slashdot, it could save them some trouble.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Please tell me you arent actually in charge of anything.
He did, he said he was talking about a "school district." When you're older, you'll realize that teachers are not authorities, schools are not valued institutions, and they don't have enough of an IT budget to even attempt to do things the "right way." And nobody cares, because none of their files are important.
I'd be more concerned if they were out of paper than if they had awful computers.
well, for one, especially for school, Android can be locked down much tighter than Windows, and has substantially fewer vulnerabilities for 3rd party software (looking at you Adobe). Remember, schools basically need a computer that does web browsing, word processing and then MAYBE some powerpoint, excel and programming. If it's a graphic design class, than it needs a few more pieces, but that's more a special case. That's why ChromeOS based laptops are selling like crazy to schools (the low price point doesn't hurt either). Sure, Android is way less capable, but in this specific use case, it's suppose to. Whether the systems are easier to manage at scale varies wildly among districts, but I suspect the number of districts managing student user and email accounts via AD and Exchange to be very small. If you're not running AD, then the managing of the computers will be almost the same as it is now.
Never ascribe to stupidity that which can be explained by malice, when it comes to a corporation. The execs know Hanlon's razor, and when they get caught with their hands in the cookie jar, they simply cry, "I didn't know!"
Its all about the demographic (Students) and the qty of apps available. This is a mobile first world we live in today. Making the device that the students use familiar is a good thing.
(regarding Android on the desktop)
It makes no sense as a desktop/educational OS right now...
Personally, I've wanted it since very near the same time it came out, but probably not the way some are envisioning it.
I run linux on the desktop, and have done so exclusively for over a decade. I have a laptop with Windows dual boot that I use a handful of times a year. Those times are what I really want desktop Android for, because, for whatever reason, some closed apps/services offer Android versions of stuff for which they do not offer Linux versions. A couple good examples are polycom conference software, MS Lync, and other online meeting tools (I can't remember which site... gotomeeting? or maybe it was the other one, but I can't remember its name). Entertainment software is another realm - all the various TV station apps (NBC, ABC, FX, Fox, SyFi, CC, etc), Netflix, etc. I can get good Android support for all those, but not under Linux.
Running a desktop Android in a VM would be, IMO, a very handy bridge for those occasions.
For enterprise desktops, it's not suitable, at least not right now. I suspect that if Android ever gets to the point where it's near suitable in the enterprise desktop realm, it'll also be much more complex, and it'd lose some of the simple things that make it attractive for some of those niches today.
so you use a bunch of negative emotional words without any reasons or logic, and get modded insightful?
Android has a linux kernel and so can even run for example the Debian userland apps if configured to do so.
Some cell phone companies manage Android devices, so it is not an impossible feat.
you are blathering without a shred of evidence or logic.
The blog post is really terribly written. It is full of negative emotions which distract from the point the author wants to convey.
The very first screenshot contains a window of "Unetbootin" in Russian and a version of Remix OS USB Tool in English. That makes is very difficult to compare the applications, which is a means to support the authors thesis. Unfortunately, such an article can only have the opposite effect of advertising for Remix OS.
I hope somebody will have a calm look at this and make a write up which is credible. If Remix OS is in violation of the GPL license, I hope that there will be consequences to their actions. At the very least I would expect them to release the source code
This doesn't actually surprise me. We had domain managed logins back when I was at school and computers were shared in a lab, but these days of laptops, iPads, etc the way schools run their devices are JBOD (Just a Bunch of Devices).
Even my wife's work laptop (school teacher) doesn't join to an active directory, though it does have Windows 8.1 Pro on it. Modern schools are managed online through any device via blackboard or at her current school Google Classroom / Google Docs which is a great benefit because she hates her work laptop and now just uses her own computer for everything.
Thank you. Well said.
I'll do what I want!!!
> Well if your school was using enterprise version of windows, as you should be,
Exactly. Schools are for ensuring that children grow up to be Microsoft trained consumers. They would not be able to survive in the outside world if they aren't familiar with Word and Excel and believe that Visual Studio is the only development system to use for writing the only usable language: C#. Also they will learn to Bing it and that Azure is their saviour.
Yeah, as much as I like Android, it is not suitable for desktop systems except for a few special niches.
you aren't the first person that's said that, but without any specific examples as to why.
Android is absolutely great for consuming media and playing games, but it certainly doesn't educate kids, nor does it cure cancer.
great for consuming media, like instructional video, literature, web pages, and textbooks? it supports keyboards and mice (well) and has several complete productivity suites.
what exactly are you looking for?
Can't you do in-place upgrades from Home to Pro on Windows 8 and 8.1? (unless they are all on Vista or 7)... That would cost a small chunk, and would likely take a while to do (going from machine to machine), but it is feasible to do. Then add all to a domain, deploy WSUS for patching and learn to start locking down the machines so the munchkins... err students don't cause complete havoc upon them.
What is the qty of Android Desktop apps available on x86?
I think this makes about as much sense as using Windows Mobile 6 because Windows.
...
It's not recommended, but the OEM part isn't the problem. Certain editions of Windows can't be used in large networks according to their EULA. Rarely enforced, but there it is.
However, for site- or organisation-wide educational agreement licensing, a minimum of an OEM version of Windows is required to be licensed on the machine when purchased. The SA or EA upgrades the OEM license to whatever version of Windows you want under the agreement - you aren't licensed to buy a truckload of random parts, build them yourself and install Windows on them without an equivalent truckload of OEM Windows Home (for e.g.) stickers.
If you think that's prickish, I recommend some light bedtime reading, checking out the Ts & Cs for SPLA.
Sure its possible, but is it FEASIBLE considering the alternatives we have. The first question is,' why would you want android?' User familiarity? They change the OS every year..Jelly bean looks and acts nothing like Marshmallow. SO scratch that. Apps? Im not even going to touch that. The vast majority of apps are utter spyware that students shouldnt be using anyways.. There just is no upside to using android in this way when you look at the entirety of the toolsets we have available. Its a poor choice without spending a fuck ton of development time and money. We have been down this road with Linux a hundred times on slashdot. At least that choice makes sense, Android does not in any way make the same sense as using linux.
Good-bye
Android has a linux kernel and so can even run for example the Debian userland apps if configured to do so.
So why not just use the right tool for the job - a debian distribution - rather than putting increased burden on school IT systems by shoehorning debian-based userland apps onto a desktop adaptation of a tablet/phone OS?
Some cell phone companies manage Android devices, so it is not an impossible feat.
Seems a fairly pointless exercise though. It's not like there is consistency with Android or anything that you would get out of it.
They should have allowed us to download it already. You have to purchase a device. Or, you can "apply" for a "license," but only if you're not an end user.
These guys are really not being helpful.
Kriston
Actually, all the GPL says is that the source has to be available for request. It doesn't have to be available to easily download via the internet. If you offer the code to anyone who writes a written request via snail mail with a valid postage stamp you are technically compliant with GPL.
Also as for Apache section B, the article contradicts itself. First it says that the changed files haven't been named, then it says ". . . no differences! No authors, no changed files, no trademarks, just copy-paste development." Which is it? Are there changed files they need to report or not?
"Geza Kovacs a day ago
Hi I wrote unetbootin. They seem to have simply followed my instructions for customization on the wiki which are listed at http://sourceforge.net/p/unetb... so I don't mind."
So uhh.. They followed his INSTRUCTIONS. Many people don't seem to mind if you use their instructions. Dumbest flame war ever.
They don't have to distribute it in any convenient form. They do have to provide source or a written offer for any parts under GPLv2 (like the kernel).
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I think Chromebooks/Chromeboxes would be better. Android doesn't support printing very well. Chromebooks do. Keyboard support and mice support is not great. At least that's my opinion, I have owned several Google TVs and one Android TV.
Switching user also on Android takes too long, much longer than on a Chromebook, making that feature almost worthless for kids that need to switch accounts quickly. This didn't work well with my family. I am sure it will work even less well in a school environment with many more kids trying to use those devices.
Multi-windowing is coming too on Android. It's already here for Samsung, LG, and some other brands, but it is still very primitive. Despite that Android can work for some non-touch devices, it is still primarily designed for touch in mind.
The opposite is true for Chromebooks. Despite the fact that many Chromebooks come with touch screens now, Chromebooks weren't designed with touch in mind. In fact, if someone wants to buy a Chromebook, it's usually much cheaper and it actually consumes much less battery power if they only buy a non-touch version.
I would expect there to be other reasons as well, but that's what I've got so far.
Android doesn't support printing very well.
it supports printing perfectly. you go to the play store and install the driver for your printer. done.
Keyboard support and mice support is not great.
they support almost any USB or bluetooth KBs and mice, and the mouse integration works really well.