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Before I Can Fix This Tractor, We Have To Fix Copyright Law (slate.com)

Gr8Apes writes: How many people does it take to fix a tractor? When the repair involves a tractor's computer, it actually takes an army of copyright lawyers, dozens of representatives from U.S. government agencies, an official hearing, hundreds of pages of legal briefs, and nearly a year of waiting. Waiting for the Copyright Office to make a decision about whether people like me can repair, modify, or hack their own stuff. why do people need to ask permission to fix a tractor in the first place? It's required under the anti-circumvention section of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Even unlocking your cellphone required an act of Congress to make it legal.

42 of 279 comments (clear)

  1. So it's broken? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So copyright law is broken? How is this news?

    1. Re:So it's broken? by Flavianoep · · Score: 2

      DMCA is the new Feudalism.

      --
      Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
    2. Re:So it's broken? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

      No, "perma-temping" is the new Feudalism.

      The DMCA is just the new Sumptuary Laws.

    3. Re:So it's broken? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      The news is that it now affects Joe Randomfarmer and not Joe Randomsurfer.

      You know, the guy who said "Why should I give a shit about you having a problem, it ain't mine" when we first complained about the DMCA.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  2. Ahh, but you don't own the tractor by pr0t0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe parts of it, but other parts you've only acquired a license to use. They didn't go over that at the tractor store?

    That's life in the new America. You probably didn't feel the slide down the slippery slope.

    --
    I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
    1. Re:Ahh, but you don't own the tractor by Sarten-X · · Score: 3, Insightful

      [citation needed]

      It's a nice idea, but the law doesn't agree with your simple assumption. Rather, according to existing law, the tractor hardware and the licenses to use the software have been sold, but not the rights to copy, modify, or disassemble the software. The tractor store probably didn't own those in the first place, so how could they sell them?

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    2. Re:Ahh, but you don't own the tractor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Rather, according to existing law, the tractor hardware and the licenses to use the software have been sold, but not the rights to copy, modify, or disassemble the software.

      And this, IMHO, is complete bullshit. You have a right to know exactly what code is running in a machine you own, and how it works, down to every last freakin' instruction. You have the right to inspect the design of the property you own, and figure out how it works, and modify it if you choose, even if existing law doesn't respect that right.

    3. Re: Ahh, but you don't own the tractor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You certainly have the moral right. Just not the legal right.

    4. Re:Ahh, but you don't own the tractor by radiumsoup · · Score: 2

      Go the fuck back to school and obtain an education where you're required to do some goddamned critical thinking.

      [citation needed] indeed

    5. Re:Ahh, but you don't own the tractor by Outtascope · · Score: 2

      Two. But the bigger question is how do they get inside the light bulb?

    6. Re:Ahh, but you don't own the tractor by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2

      It's called FALSE AND MISLEADING ADVERTISING YOU WITLESS FUCKING MORON.

      Yeah, and what are you going to do about it? Nothing! Because if you take it to small claims court, it will just drain 8 hours out of your life and they probably won't show up and even if you got the judgment they'd just stiff you anyway; so what you are going to do is piss and moan like an impotent jerk, and then bend over and take it up the tailpipe!

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    7. Re:Ahh, but you don't own the tractor by myowntrueself · · Score: 4, Funny

      Go the fuck back to school and obtain an education where you're required to do some goddamned critical thinking.

      I'm pretty sure the article was talking about the USA.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    8. Re: Ahh, but you don't own the tractor by DrLang21 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You have a right to know exactly what code is running in a machine you own, and how it works, down to every last freakin' instruction.

      I don't buy that at all. Don't get me wrong here. I don't think it should be illegal to hack the software that resides on a device you own (though I would be curious if the farmer actually owns this tractor since they are usually purchased on long term loan agreements). But saying you have a right to know means that manufacturers have an obligation to disclose. I would be willing to bet that no one is willing to divulge to you in great detail how the mechanics of your car's engine runs, or how your dishwasher (lets say an old one not opperated by software) does what it does, or the hysteresis of your water heater. Nor do most people believe the manufacturers should be required to. Whether you could figure this out on your own or not is besides the point. And all this aside, I question the sensibility of what this farmer is trying to do anyways. He said it shuts down if a hydraulic sensor goes out and has to wait for days to get a new one. The more reliable solution would be to stock the sensors that go out most often. I would bet there is a pretty limited range of variants on the sensors. This is a lot safer than hacking the software of a multi hundred thousand dollar machine that would certainly void the warranty, probably violate the terms of any loan it is under, and possibly circumvent safety features.

      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
  3. Simple fix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Don't buy "Made in the USA". It applies to much more than tractors.

    1. Re:Simple fix by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Truth.

      I can do more with BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Mazda than I can with GM/Ford/Chrysler with just my laptop and a cheap china ODB to USB adapter. In fact a BMW is easier for a driveway mechanic to work on because I can easily ask it what is wrong. go ahead and query the transfer case module as to it's status on a GM or activate the calibration function.... Oh wait you cant.

      All because GM works like hell to protect the revenue stream of its dealerships. so that $60 30 minute fluid change becomes $700 at a 1100% profit.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Simple fix by JoeMerchant · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Dodge/Chrysler and the "60,000 mile change interval" fluid in their CVTs - originally single sourced from them at $80/qt, with 6 qts required for a change.

      By the time those POS cars are at 120Kmi, they're barely worth $1500 on the open market, and they've got a planned maintenance that required $500 "worth" of fluid?!? - luckily, some 3rd party sources are showing up (and "only" charging $73 for a case of fluid) and in response the dealers have come down from $80 to anywhere from $28 to $18 per qt, depending... , but, seriously, at what point do we have to ask our legislators to step in and call BS on this kind of stuff? Fluids are one thing, it's pretty easy to call monopoly on that, but DMCA is a kind of monopoly protection that apparently has escaped the notice of anyone in power who might care.

    3. Re:Simple fix by Wain13001 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Toyota cars sold in the USA are manufactured in the USA. "Domestic" isn't always that easy to tell.

    4. Re:Simple fix by JoeMerchant · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The actual manufacturer of the CVT doesn't recommend fluid changes, except "as needed", which may be never. It's just the Chrysler factory service manual that says "60,000 miles" which I think is borderline criminal - putting something like that in writing when the actual designer and maker of the component clearly states otherwise.

    5. Re:Simple fix by omnichad · · Score: 3, Informative

      Reading yes, sending commands, no.

  4. Wonder when "open source" will hit vehicles by mlts · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm sort of reminded of the early 1990s, pre-Linux, where if one wanted an OS to run on their computer, be it a UNIX flavor, DOS, or OS/2, it cost, and wasn't cheap. It makes me wonder if there would be a niche for a company that produced farm equipment to charge a tad more, as they are not using the cheapest stuff from China, but circuits would be diagrammed, parts would be available, and the equipment would be designed from the ground up for serviceability. Unlike phones and tablets where shaving off a few fractions of a millimeter is critical, a 1950s-era tractor does the job just as well as a modern one.

    Of course, there is reliability. A closed source, locked-down ECU might allow something to run for a longer time between servicings, at the cost of more expensive upkeep (since parts only come from the maker.) Would customers mind dealing with a more frequent maintenance cycle, in return for the fact that parts would be cheaper and easy to get ahold of 10-20 years from now, or is the mindset of "use it until it breaks, pitch it, replace it, repeat" too firmly ingrained in the mind of consumers?

    It may take some time before this happens. I'm just waiting for "consolization" of cars, where vehicles come with the same engines across the board, but you have to pay license fees to enable the turbos, unlock all horsepower, use the BlueTooth functionality on the audio head... and none of those licenses will transfer with the vehicle, which guarentees that car makers make a significant, tidy sum when a vehicle is sold. Similar with farm equipment. Want to use the PTO? That is a licensed feature and even though the transmission supports it, the TCM won't enable it unless the manufacturer gets $2000 for a license key. Want to use a combine attachment? Another $2000, and it is only good for this harvest season, but you can pay $5000 to have it enabled for five seasons.

    How hot will the water get before the frog jumps out?

    1. Re:Wonder when "open source" will hit vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      That is a licensed feature and even though the transmission supports it, the TCM won't enable it unless the manufacturer gets $2000 for a license key. Want to use a combine attachment?

      It already exists. What do you think is the difference between the 950 HP and the 975 HP engines? They're the exact same iron set it's a software 'unlock'.

    2. Re:Wonder when "open source" will hit vehicles by hughbar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've commented on this before. IBM, I believe, called this 'functional pricing' in the 1970s. When I started in computing in the mid 1970s, ICL (UK mainframe manufacturer) had two printers, a 300 lines per minute and a 600 lines per minute, no difference except a couple of resistors (this was pre 'unlock') and, of course, the price.

      Of course, theoretically, 'competition' in 'markets' should stamp this out. However, a great deal of competition now seems to be for the best cheating (VW et al.) and best regulatory capture (DMCA etc.). Bless 'shareholder value' and screw the consumer.

      --
      On y va, qui mal y pense!
    3. Re:Wonder when "open source" will hit vehicles by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Of course, there is reliability. A closed source, locked-down ECU might allow something to run for a longer time between servicings,"

      This is a complete falsehood. all the ECU's from the 80's and 90's were not locked down and easily modified. the 7730 GM ECU is the most reverse engineered ECU in history and was used for a very very long time across many cars. having it wide open never damaged the reliability of anything and in fact extended the life of many GM LT1 and LS1 engines by letting them live in other cars as engine swaps.

      Locked down ECU does absolutely nothing at all to reliability. the only use for it is to protect a profit center.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:Wonder when "open source" will hit vehicles by cryptolemur · · Score: 3, Informative

      Of course, theoretically, 'competition' in 'markets' should stamp this out.

      That theory also talks about "informed actors". That is, consumers being able to get all the information -- a world without trade secrets...

    5. Re:Wonder when "open source" will hit vehicles by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2

      Of course, theoretically, 'competition' in 'markets' should stamp this out.

      That theory also talks about "informed actors". That is, consumers being able to get all the information -- a world without trade secrets...

      That theory also assumes that if they are informed, they will act rationally.

      I'm starting to understand why a lot of market theory is rubbish.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  5. Not going to help. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Posting as AC because I work for one of those 'tractor' companies.

    why do people need to ask permission to fix a tractor in the first place?

    1. The EPA makes us do this. We have to encrypt stuff so that you can't easily add a emissions defeat device. If we didn't encrypt it every redneck farmer would be ripping off their DPF and other emissions devices because they didn't understand it. (Just like they did with catalytic converters way back when)

    2. Even if you had the 'source' in front of you it'd still require tens of thousands of dollars in tools chains. I would put money on the fact that the source isn't even in C. Building ECM flashfiles, in some work circles, is up there with voodoo. These aren't your grandpas ECMs there isn't a "Tractor_ECM.c" file that you can make some changes to and recompile with GCC. As far as I know there isn't an OSS compiler available for embedded PPC and certainly not one available for eTPU functionality.

    If you want to modify your tractor or car to do your bidding you're better off making your own fully open ECM from scratch. This is what they look like under the hood and are engineered to live in places that a RaspPi or Arduino wouldn't live for more than a few days..

    1. Re:Not going to help. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Who exactly made the choice of tools to use in the first place?

      Lots of people, here's a brief SAE technical paper on it: Caterpillar Automatic Code Generation

      Why not choose non-proprietary hardware in the first place? Too simple?

      As much as Slashdot hates to acknowledge it money makes things work. We pay a company to develop a compiler instead of hoping some volunteers do it for us. We pay a company to have parts of a toolchain in place so we don't have to.

      Too simple? Too hard. There's no piece of open source hardware that comes close to what tractor ECMs could do a decade ago. The OSS community seems to be more interested in dev boards than actual finished products. This ECM is what drives a lot of the world of tractors. There are a dozen or so variations that have different pins populated with different IO but at its heart it's a 40(?) MHz Freescale MPC56XX chip with an eTPU to do all the fast timing.

      But it exists because we paid engineers a lot of money to develop it. We paid more engineers to test it and even more engineers to write software for it all while paying outside companies for their tools to cut prototyping time. Vector CANape for CAN based calibration, Mathworks Simulink for model based control, Wind River for their diab compiler.

      I would love to tear the ECM out of my VW TDI and replace it with one of our own. I could write a new controller for my car in an hour or two with our toolchain. Without the tool chain it's a PITA and I haven't bothered.

      We treat our tools as tools. I don't question how or who designed my hammer when I use it to hit nails. I just care that it doesn't break and works as it is designed. The 'toolbox' I'm sitting on right now is the sum result of decades of development ahead of where open source is.

      IF anyone wants to help develop a completely OSS ECM and toolchain for ECM development I have a laundry list of what is needed to catch OSS up with where industry was in 2005, but I'm not holding my breath.

    2. Re:Not going to help. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      but where does one start with the list?

      Start with Simulink. Model based design is everywhere. Simulink is the only gorilla in the room at this point. With what I've seen people do with Python it shouldn't be hard (technically) to make something similar. You're going to have to make sure it meets industry standards like ISO 26262.

      Pick a RTOS. ChibiOS, FreeRTOS, etc

      A decent CANape replacement for calibration.

      Then you're going to need hardware. You just need an open source version of the Caterpillar A4. Something that takes 18-28V, is hardened against lightning strikes and random stray voltages. Can handle thousands of hours under the hood of a diesel engine. It needs to have a eTPU or FPGA made for timing diesel injection events accurately. The rusEFI project has started their own ECM and in the last year gotten the absolute basics but is nowhere close to what engineered OEM ECMs provide.

      Any one of those on its own would be a grad school level project (and should be).

  6. Unproductive Jobs by monkeyxpress · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This basically sums up the problem with the economy - it is gummed up with jobs that do not produce real wealth. Sure, lawyers will say that copyright laws are important because they give an incentive for real wealth creators to do stuff, but there is no natural law that ensures that the amount of human energy that goes into protecting existing wealth would not have produced a net greater benefit for society if it had been directed at creating new real wealth instead.

    We've been here before many times. War, essentially, is a massive mobilisation of human effort in a completely pointless (in terms of net prosperity) way. After WW2 we finally started to learn to put our efforts towards building more stuff for everyone, instead of trying to find better ways to steal some other country's stuff, and for many years this was incredibly successful for humanity.

    The more I've learnt about how the current financial and legal system works, the more I realise how naive us tech people are, busy working on making stuff. Most engineers I know are smart enough to clean up against the sorts of people who get a law or business degree, but we tend to be too idealistic about how the world works. In the end it's just sad that we live in an economic system where you are better off financially trading the same houses between each other, rather than going out and building new houses (or transport systems to open up areas for new housing).

    1. Re:Unproductive Jobs by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > This basically sums up the problem with the economy - it is gummed up with jobs that do not produce real wealth. Sure, lawyers will say that copyright laws
      > are important because they give an incentive for real wealth creators to do stuff, but there is no natural law that ensures that the amount of human
      > energy that goes into protecting existing wealth would not have produced a net greater benefit for society if it had been directed at creating new real
      > wealth instead.

      Copyright was built with the idea to give incentive to do work so that work can make it to the commons and other people can build off of that foundation. It wasn't a magic formula to make cash and that's how it is treated today.

    2. Re:Unproductive Jobs by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

      Copyright when it was originally conceived was to protect an author (creator) against a distributor stealing their work and profiting from it, pure and simple. To obtain a copyright, you had to file paperwork and a copy of your work with the Library of Congress, and you got 14 years of protection for providing a copy for posterity (one of the original goals of copyright. If you filed more paperwork, you could get that extended to 28 years, which seems more than enough to profit from your work in exchange for making it public domain afterwards. Everything since in copyright law has effectively made the distributors richer at the expense of the creators themselves and the public for which copyright was originally conceived.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  7. New auto drive car = no more updates after 1 year by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    New auto drive car = no more updates after 1 year so you need to buy a new car to get that update.

    There should be a law say that they must get free updates for at least 5-7 years even if there needs to be a computer replacement to fix an safety issue that must be done at there cost.

  8. Make a law saying that independent repair shops by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Make a law saying that independent repair shops must get the same software and codes that the dealers get and the software can't be locked down to only on dealer systems or be rent only.

    1. Re:Make a law saying that independent repair shops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      So that 'independent' repair shops can pop up across the country and remove emissions controls? They'll slap a "For off road use only" or "For demo testing only" sticker on the side while it continues to pollute at pre-2010 emissions regulations levels.

      So that they can unlock power levels that took money and engineering resources to develop? What incentive does the company have to continue to develop them?

      Different ratings may share a common set of hardware but 'just' have different maps and tunes. The difference between 900 HP and 950 HP is probably just a couple of bits. It doesn't mean it's "free". It's hundreds of man hours tuning both settings. It's months of test cell time burning diesel fuel to get the settings just right. It's reams of paperwork for the EPA to verify that we are within emissions and stay within emissions for so many hours.

      The end result may be the difference between them may just be 0xfe to 0xff but the process it took to get there may have costed $1M+. Charging for those software changes are the way we stay in business and recoup R&D costs. Now you just want us to give it away to an independent shop for free?

    2. Re:Make a law saying that independent repair shops by ranton · · Score: 4, Informative

      go fuck yourself

      This guy actually takes the time to provide the most informative posts for the article, and this is your response? I'm not saying I agree with everything the tractor manufacturers are doing, but he has at least laid out some very interesting factors to consider.

      What I do know is the massive productivity enhancements new tractors and combines give to farmers (my dad is a farmer), and new electronic systems are a main driver of that. If America still wants its dollar menus and steak meals under $20, we cannot keep using the same machinery my dad did when he started farming 50 years ago.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    3. Re:Make a law saying that independent repair shops by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 2

      There's nothing magical about combines or tractors. Sorry.

      Say sorry all you like, modern combines and tractors are loaded with computers...

      There is a reason that farmers are buying them, they cost less to run and do more work than the older gear did...

      The only thing that's apparently complex here is the logic used to dial down power output to reduce emissions.

      There is far more to a modern combine than the computer running the engine.

      https://www.deere.com/en_US/pr...?
      https://www.deere.com/en_US/pr...?

      Modern combines and tractors don't even have to be driven by a human. And you think the only complex logic is on the engine?

      There are probably ways to do that with open source.

      The OP said that one of the reasons they encrypt is per the EPA, they have to make it hard to defeat the emissions control equipment.

      If you want to remove the encryption, then you have to provide another acceptable way to prevent farmers from removing that equipment and controls.

      All the farmers have to do is just refuse to buy tractors that aren't open. Let the dealerships know that you are deliberately putting off buying a new tractor for a few years at least until more open options are on the table, and let everyone know there are huge opportunities for new start ups.

      Which farmers would those be?

      Archer Daniels Midland
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Smithfield Foods
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Cargill
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Those are huge multi-billion dollar corporations that really, really, REALLY don't care about what you care about.

  9. There is a better way. by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You reverse engineer it, publish all the information anonymously and tell these companies to FUCK THEMSELVES.

    It's starting in the Car world, The reverse engineering of the Honda ECU's you can get the details and source code out there if you look hard enough. some GM ECM's have been completely hacked, and the BMW dealership coding software has been released and you can get it.
    Tractors in the article are incredibly niche devices so it's going to take longer, but full details needs to be published publically and everyone needs to spread it far and wide.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  10. Re:New auto drive car = no more updates after 1 ye by Baron_Yam · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Simple law: If you sell something, the customer must have the right to repair it or you must offer full zero-deductible warranty for the (clearly) advertised lifetime of the device or software.

  11. Re:LIES by EmagGeek · · Score: 2

    It's hard to try to do something that IS protected by the constitution:

    Buy a gun
    Film the police
    Record a government meeting
    Speak out against your government
    Get a fair trial
    Receive a punishment that fits the crime

    The list goes on. And on. And on.

    So, given that it is so difficult to do things that ARE protected by the Constitution, it really should come as no surprise that it would be difficult in the extreme to do things that aren't specifically protected.

    After all, the government has slowly changed the tack to "it is the Constitution that grants rights, and the only rights you have are those enumerated in it," even though this is as false as it is farcical. My kid's social studies book even has a chapter section on how the Constitution grants rights. It'd be funny were it not so scary.

  12. Re:You do own the tractor by ZorroXXX · · Score: 2

    But you don't own the software.

    This is in best case unprecise. Yes you are correct in that the buyer do not own the copyright for the software, but you are wrong in claiming that the copy of the software can not be owned.

    When someone goes to the bookstore and buys a book, he/she does not own the copyright of the book as a result of the deal. However he/she does own a (single) copy of the book. The copyright owner has absolutely no rights to restrict the book owners usage of this book. If the book is a murder mystery, the reader is free to read the last page first to find out who did it. Or use the pages as toilet paper. Or burn the book publicly in protest. Or anything else he/she want to, completely independently of what the copyright owner likes or not.

    Now, there are some things that the book owner cannot do with the book. He/she cannot go to a publisher and try to republish the book as his/her own for instance. And the police might have some objection to burning books publicly. But notice that all such restrictions are general, "global" restrictios imposed by law/law enforcement and not wishes from the copyright owner of the book. Notice also that these restrictions are independent of copy ownership, if someone goes to a publisher and try to publish a book they do not own the copyright for, it does not matter if the book comes from their own or their neighbour's book shelf.

    Unfortunately digital software makes it possible for the copyright owner to put in usage restrictions that they have absolutely no right to do. Opportunity is however never, ever is a valid argument for action. Just because you have a gun and can kill someone, it does not mean that it is a valid reason for doing so. Just because software companies can impose digital restrictions on their software, it does not mean that it is a valid reason for doing so. A book author has no right to say "My book cannot be read on Fridays". A software company has no right to say "Our software cannot be run on Fridays".

    I do recognice that there is a difference between buying and renting a book, and that restrictions might apply for renting.

    --
    When you are sure of something, you probably are wrong (search for "Unskilled and Unaware of It").
  13. MAI v. Peak by tepples · · Score: 2

    On many devices, the user has to initiate copying the software from permanent storage into RAM in order to run it. This is true of any computing device not based on execute-in-place read-only memory (XIP ROM). But because of how 17 USC 117 is worded, only the owner of the device has the authority to perform this copying, not someone who's using it on the owner's behalf (MAI v. Peak).

  14. Re:EPA is broken by sjames · · Score: 2

    It goes well beyond that. It's not just the engine control that's locked up, it's everything. The controller for the GPS, for the autopilot, for the accessories attached, etc.They could provide a mechanism that doesn't require hacking for replacing a fuel injector but they don't. The EPA requires no such total lock-down.

    It is very much a DMCA thing.