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The Clock Is Ticking For the US To Relinquish Control of ICANN (betanews.com)

Posted by timothy on from the independence-day dept.

Mark Wilson writes: The U.S. is not afraid to throw its weight around; it likes not only to be involved in things, but to be in control. For decades, ICANN (Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers) — the non-profit organization that manages IP addresses and domain names — has been overseen by the U.S. Department of Commerce, much to the chagrin of people around the world. Most upset are those who point to the independent nature of the internet, and the need for any body with global power to be similarly indpendent. Later this year ICANN is set — at long last — to completely separate from the U.S. government.

While this does hinge on U.S. government approval, by the end of September, ICANN could instead be in the hands of businesses, individuals, and multiple global governments. While the changing of hands should not alter the way ICANN operates, it is hoped that it will go some way to restoring faith that may have been lost after revelations about online surveillance by the NSA and other U.S. government agencies.

33 of 183 comments (clear)

  1. Ain't going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This isn't going to happen. Period.

    There is no way congress will pull their fingers out of their asses.

    1. Re:Ain't going to happen by davester666 · · Score: 2

      Yes, they've done so much to limit the use of executive orders in the past, we can reasonably assume they continue to do so in the future.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  2. NSA? by Dog-Cow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What does NSA spying have to do with who gives out domain names and IP address blocks? Stupidity.

    1. Re:NSA? by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A fundamental lack of trust for the US these days.

      The fact that everybody knows of the secret US laws which can demand they lie to you about if the government has demanded information causes the perception that, any entity in the hands of the US or its government is not free from interference and meddling.

      You know, how tech companies are fighting the government in court about back doors in encryption, or handing over foreign data from foreign servers despite that being in violation of the laws in those countries.

      Do American truly not understand the extent to which the trust level of the US has been severely eroded? Or are you laboring under the belief nobody has noticed?

      Because the act of making every agency and corporation a part of the US spy apparatus has the effect of everybody assuming they can't trust those entities due to the fact that ... well, they can't.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:NSA? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Okay. So, we have to ask again - what does this have to do with keeping a registry of who "owns" what blocks of IP addresses?

      --
      Do you have ESP?
  3. Dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any link between ICANN and NSA (or any other information gathering organization) is utterly dumb. ICANN doesn't determine network protocols, ICANN doesn't have any say in encryption, ICANN doesn't deal with routing, ICANN is not about security. It is a little like linking the Dept of Agriculture with influence over the recent UN nuclear deal.

    Moving ICANN away from a government can only mean one thing ... fees. The "corporation" part of their name is about to come into more play. Get ready to get gouged!

    1. Re:Dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Any link between ICANN and NSA (or any other information gathering organization) is utterly dumb. ICANN doesn't determine network protocols, ICANN doesn't have any say in encryption, ICANN doesn't deal with routing, ICANN is not about security. It is a little like linking the Dept of Agriculture with influence over the recent UN nuclear deal.

      ICANN may not determine the internals of a network protocol, but they do handle how some of those protocols function. For example, beyond doling out IP addresses, ICANN doles out the AS Numbers used for routing on the Internet. They also choose what top level domains exist and who may assign to them. They provide the unique OID numbers used for SNMP. The select what codes are assigned to various protocols at the Ethernet level and the IP level, thus indirectly selecting what protocols are standard and may interoperate on the Internet. They select the numbers used in DHCP, thus selecting what information may be served via DHCP and what may not. They define what mechanisms are standard authentication for HTTP. They define what digest algorithms are part of the HTTP standard and how they are identified.

      They do various other related things that help people coalesce around standard names/numbers for making communication on the Internet possible.

    2. Re:Dumb by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      Exactly. European democracies are worse than the US in intrusiveness. And Russia, China, etc.? Saying these should even have a say in it, forget it.

      This is complete and utter failure and stupidity. A nation dedicate to keeping the trade routes open is turning over control to places whose leaders are not of accord.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  4. Is there a problem here? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "While the changing of hands should not alter the way ICANN operates, it is hoped that it will go some way to restoring faith that may have been lost after revelations about online surveillance by the NSA and other U.S. government agencies."

    Really? What do these two issues have to do with each other? Does the NSA somehow have a leg up on the competition because another US agency doles out IP address blocks?

    Smells like anti-US idiocy, and I say that as someone who's not real thrilled with the NSA's activities.

    --
    Do you have ESP?
    1. Re:Is there a problem here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, it's hip especially in Europe to have anti-US sentiment. But of course the real reason for all this is not about stopping NSA spying. It's that politicians abroad don't know any better about tech one way or another any better than US politicians, and if they hear ICANN is vulnerable to spying, then what is really happening is that they want their piece of the pie. The point of the anti-US sentiment is to make people in Europe believe that this is solely an American phenomena, and so it couldn't happen there. It's always entertaining to watch citizens of those countries gasp in shock when they hear their country does the same things, and is often in fact in cooperation with the NSA.

    2. Re:Is there a problem here? by chihowa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's always entertaining to watch citizens of those countries gasp in shock when they hear their country does the same things, and is often in fact in cooperation with the NSA.

      Go back and reread the responses, as there are plenty on this site alone. They don't gasp in shock; they rationalize, excuse, and find a way to blame it on the US.

      Because...

      The point of the anti-US sentiment is to make people in Europe believe that this is solely an American phenomena, and so it couldn't happen there.

      It's working. It's popular to point to Americans as small-minded, but it's really a universally human attribute.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    3. Re:Is there a problem here? by HiThere · · Score: 2

      Well....back before the ICANN became a subsidiary of the US govt. it did a better job. Of course, this doesn't mean we'll get back the old board members, or even the original charter. And, to be fair, the Internet has become a lot more a magnet for power hungry schemers than it used to be.

      It's not clear to me that it was "joining" the US government that caused the degradation so much as the "palace revolution" that resulted in/from older members leaving the board.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    4. Re:Is there a problem here? by HiThere · · Score: 2

      Depends on what you mean. Americans (and I think I include most Canadians here, though not Mexicans) then to forget about other countries most of the time because they live such a long distance away from them. "Everybody speaks the same language" You don't have this so much in Europe, because it isn't true. And it does carry over into personal habits. Many from the US seem unwilling to understand that other people don't speak English...so if they aren't understood the first time they'll just say it again, only slower and louder. This is, I believe, rare among Europeans.

      OTOH, living in smaller countries tends to make people more defensive about their country. That's a different sort of "insular" that is less common (not, unfortunately, uncommon) in the US and Canada.

      Mexico is a somewhat different case. Not only is it intrinsically smaller, it's been conquered more than once by imperialistic invaders. This tends to mark a people. It's also close to a large number of other countries (most of them are a lot smaller) to the south. And the Caribbean islands are also "close". That the other countries speak the same language doesn't mean they aren't seen as different. (Again consider the US and Canada.)

      So, yes, there is an underlying natural human trait, but it expresses itself differently in different environments.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  5. The way ICANN operates WILL change by QuietLagoon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...While the changing of hands should not alter the way ICANN operates...

    If the parties involved did not want the way ICANN operates to change, then why have they gone through such an effort in order to effect this change in the pecking order for ICANN?

    .
    fwiw, the efforts to pry ICANN away from US control have been going on since long before the NSA became a household name....

    1. Re:The way ICANN operates WILL change by mysidia · · Score: 2

      I believe the prying away ICANN is very much a for-profit endeavor.

      IMO; ICANN is somewhat shady, and not to be trusted with full control over the domain name system. They have already begun to show their true colors with the "Vanity TLDs" enterprise.

      Which, by the way, does not seem to be in the public interest --- but purely a money-making idea for ICANN.

      By the time the public understands the negative consequences of this; it will be too late, AFTER they have already allowed ICANN to become independent and ceded the public's ability to have a check on absolute power....

  6. Not a good change of masters... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Switch ICANN to the UN, and things will be even worse. The US can be shamed by international pressure. The UN? Well, you are going to see censorship on a religious and political level that would have never existed before. Groups of political dissidents (think Kurds) would have their websites hunted down and destroyed, just like CP sites are now.

    No thanks... the US isn't perfect, but that is a far better owner than repressive nations who will use the Internet to push their own political will and extreme agenda.

    1. Re:Not a good change of masters... by cfalcon · · Score: 2

      This is absolutely a concern. The canary here will be to see if ICANN starts fucking with "hate groups". If they get away with that, expect to have work around them, because the only thing they'll be willing to deal with is pictures of cats and other uncontroversial topics.

  7. Who will be in control? by malx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The story summary wrongly gives the impression that the US is forever interfering in ICANN's affairs. This is simply not true: while it does retain an oversight function, it has never used that to interfere in ICANN's operational matters. It does have ultimate oversight authority, and so is in theory the final recourse if ICANN should go off the rails. The question is, if the US gives that up, who gets the final say?

    ICANN is a body that has power that Slashdotters should care about. It writes rules into the contracts it has with top level domain Registries, rules that individual domain registrants must obey. Mostly these rules are technical not policy, but that is changing. ICANN has long required domain registrants to submit to ICANN's Uniform Dispute Resolution Policy, which allows trademark owners to claim domains that are said to infringe their trademarks, even though the UDRP does not provide all the defences to trademark that ordinary law offers.

    The UDRP is pretty much a settled part of ICANN's scope. But there are plenty of other interests (copyright owners, child protection campaigns, law enforcement groups from around the world) that would like ICANN to impose the rules they prefer on domain registrants too. And they're actively lobbying ICANN right now, have been for years.

    Under US oversight, there was a principled commitment to the openness of the Internet, and the possibility of an ultimate recourse to Congress if these lobbyists capture ICANN. When that oversight disappears, it will be crucial to have enshrined in ICANN's constitution effective and enforceable means to constrain ICANN from scope creep. Arguments about that are what is delaying the removal of US oversight, with intellectual property lawyers and foreign governments fighting hard to give ICANN a broad Mission that allows it to implement their demands.

    1. Re:Who will be in control? by danbob999 · · Score: 2

      and the possibility of an ultimate recourse to Congress

      You are kidding, right? The 95% of the world living outside of the USA have absolutely no recourse to your Congress.

    2. Re:Who will be in control? by mysidia · · Score: 2

      The 95% of the world living outside of the USA have absolutely no recourse to your Congress.

      I think that's not actually important the MERE THREAT that there is a recourse to congress is an influencer against pursuing courses that would be against their mission and hurt the internet as a whole, because it means the ICANN board does not have absolute power; It does not matter that Congress has not actually used that power, as long as they know they can be subject to account, then they may not engage in abuses they might otherwise.

    3. Re:Who will be in control? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Funny

      The 95% of the world living outside of the USA have absolutely no recourse to your Congress.

      That is not true . . . US Congress will accept bribes from anyone in the world, independent of where they live.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    4. Re:Who will be in control? by T.E.D. · · Score: 2
      You make a pretty strong argument, but you totally lost me here:

      Under US oversight, there was ... the possibility of an ultimate recourse to Congress if these lobbyists capture ICANN

      The current US Congress has trouble passing routine legislation (farm bill, highway bill, debt ceiling, etc), and saying it has been "captured by lobbyists" if anything underplays their influence. Asking this Congress for help would be like calling in a pack of wolves to get a fox out of your henhouse. In the unlikely event they actually get anything accomplished, its a pretty good bet you won't like it.

    5. Re:Who will be in control? by tnk1 · · Score: 2

      Congress has shitty solutions, true. However, the real threat is ICANN board members and execs having to sit through Congressional hearings. I assure you, the threat of Congress is enough to keep people in line. People *hate* dealing with Congress.

  8. ICANN won't change. The proof is in its behavior. by gavron · · Score: 4, Informative

    ----before you Reply/criticize, please read at least one of the links I posted below - thank you ---

    Change in ICANN has been impossible to come by. The only "representative of the people", Karl Aurbach
    tried for years to get some accountability, some rationality, some responsibility. Instead all he got was
    stonewalled. It makes for interesting but not hopeful reading that ICANN is ready to manage a global
    network with ANY sort of eye to "the stakeholders."

    It's like letting the MAFIAA manage the Internet. Their goals are to please THEIR stakeholders, which
    do not include those of us who enjoy Pandora, Spotify, Hulu, Bittorrent, etc.

    Here's that "interesting reading" I promised. It's a small but representative subset.
    http://www.circleid.com/posts/...
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...
    http://archive.icann.org/en/co...
    https://w2.eff.org/Infrastruct...

    Ehud

  9. This is a bad idea by Karmashock · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes yes... its very trendy to hate on the US. But please consider the alternative here. The United Nations? Most nations in the world have a less ironclad notion of free speech than the Americans. To the contrary, the vast majority of governments desire radically restricted speech.

    And surrendering ICANN to these people is likely to result in new rules put in place to restrict speech more than anything.

    Keep in mind, why do these countries want authority over ICANN? What is it doing or not doing that they don't like? What would the US government be saying yes or no to here that has them so upset?

    To those that will cite snowden in all situations, keep in mind that the push to get ICANN under international control predated that and regardless taking ICANN from the US won't change any of that anyway.

    The entire thing is likely to be a shitshow.

    That said, the good news is that ICANN just controls the DNS registries... so... worst case, if the whomevers fuck it up beyond repair we can just bypass their fuckwitted tables and use our own.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  10. Re:Unfair IPV4 allocation? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 2

    Why would third world countries need lots of IPv4 space? They are rolling out native IPv6 to end users, SNI pretty much means web hosting no longer needs piles of IPv4 Addresses. IPv4 needs to go away.

    We allocated IPv4 on first come first served basis, it's a limited resource and redistributing it is not worth the hassle.

    --
    No sir I dont like it.
  11. what the hell? by superwiz · · Score: 2

    There were no revelations made about NSA which were not already suspected by non-general-public security specialists. Who else would administer it? UN? Most of its members would look to put in rules in place to increase censorship. US still remains one of the few places in the Western Civilization where speech is free by law. Even if it means offensive speech or speech which is not politically correct or speech which is "unethical" by some other subjective standard. Releasing control of ICANN from the US government would mean giving up the tenant of entirely free speech.

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  12. Replacing one questionable actor with multiple? by clay_buster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really can't see how this is going to make ICANN more responsive or more trustworthy. We'll just end up with a bunch of questionable actors pushing their own (more restrictive) agendas. Look at how Iceland and Japan have been trying to stack the International Whaling bodies or what happens when you put Saudi Arabia and China on Human Rights boards. Some NGOs are sock puppets for their governments or corporations. European governments aren't any more trustowrthy. They drank from the same data tap trough as the US government.

    You may not like having a US agency be a key player but at least you only have one player to monitor/harass/attack. Now you will end up with a whole bunch of players from non-accountable organizations.

  13. ICANN is it's own worst enemy by steelwraith · · Score: 2

    You really shouldn't be concerned about the NSA, or even the Dept. of Commerce. I'm more concerned that the ICANN leadership thinks that anyone outside of their inner circle doesn't matter:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...

    No way in hells do I want these clowns running around without adult supervision...

  14. Blockchain by roman_mir · · Score: 2

    If ever there was a good reason to use distributed blockchain database model, IP address and domain name ownership would be one of them.

    --
    You can't handle the truth.
  15. Re: The internet started with DARPA by bondsbw · · Score: 2

    War didn't invent those things. War just provided the incentive to complete them. It's like the Interstate Highway system, it was not built for the sole purpose of moving troops quickly across the US, but that provided enough real incentive to kickstart the process.

    --
    All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
  16. If it ain't broke by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 2

    Seriously, can anyone point to any systemic problem with the way ICANN operates now that seriously adversely affects the way the Internet works?
    Saying, "Because those evil, greedy, capitalist running-dog Americans," is not a valid argument.

  17. I fear the alternatives by PPH · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The US management of ICANN has largely been hands off. And NSA surveillance of Internet traffic is not dependent on who manages its address space. So that will continue.

    What will happen, if ICANN is placed under the authority of weaker management, is that every little tin pot dictator and authoritarian regime will attempt to impose their authority over their corner of it. And instead of ICANNs current policy of keeping local autocrats at arms length, they will be forced into supporting their authority.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.