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Facebook Building World's 'Most Advanced' Data Center In Irish Village (thestack.com)

Posted by samzenpus on from the building-it-better dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Facebook has announced it is building a new data center in Clonee, Ireland, a small village close to Dublin. The facility, which CEO Mark Zuckerberg claims will be one of the "most advanced and energy efficient data centers in the world," will be the social network's second outside of the U.S., and its sixth globally. The new center will be located just a 30-minute drive from Facebook's international headquarters in the country's capital. It is expected to cost €200 million and employ around 2,000 people during the construction phase. The company hopes to open the facility in early 2018.

60 comments

  1. Can't be too much competition... by dohzer · · Score: 2

    How many other data centers in Irish Villages can there be?

    1. Re:Can't be too much competition... by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      given the number of companies basing themselves in Ireland for tax purposes it would not surprise me if their are a shit load.

    2. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      the irony is, of course, if I tried to avoid US taxes by living and working in ireland for irish companies, uncle sam would still cross the atlantic to tax me.

    3. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot. Tir Na Nog is one of the most advanced countries.

    4. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to live and work in Ireland for Irish companies, then you could easily renounce your US citizenship, and have absolutely zero obligation to good old Uncle Sam whatsoever.

      And, since you and I both know that you're probably not making billions of dollars a year, it's extraordinarily likely that you'd get a tax credit for taxes paid to the Irish government for all or very nearly all of the taxes you "would" owe to Uncle Sam, which means that, in effect, you have to simply file a tax return each year, which says "I owe nothing."

      Stop whining.

    5. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the irony is, of course, is you are in fact Mitt Romney

    6. Re:Can't be too much competition... by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      Only the US has such insane tax laws for both its citizens and companies. most countries have broken tax laws with regards to companies though that let tax havens like Ireland happen.

    7. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Plenty. It has a fairly stable climate year-round and the cool sea air is used for passive cooling. The irony is that the common Irish people have one of the worst internet connections in the world.

    8. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      i don't want to renounce my US citizenship cuz I don't want to close off any open avenues in the future shoudl I want to return to US. Trump would block me with his wall!

      I just don't want to be double taxed or taxed at all, for that matter. That's why the revolutionary war was faught.

    9. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Irish village" here is a bit of a euphemism for "Dublin suburb". And the Dublin suburbs have plenty of datacenters.

      --
      10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
    10. Re:Can't be too much competition... by gordguide · · Score: 1

      If you want to live and work in Ireland for Irish companies, then you could easily renounce your US citizenship, and have absolutely zero obligation to good old Uncle Sam whatsoever.

      And, since you and I both know that you're probably not making billions of dollars a year, it's extraordinarily likely that you'd get a tax credit for taxes paid to the Irish government for all or very nearly all of the taxes you "would" owe to Uncle Sam, which means that, in effect, you have to simply file a tax return each year, which says "I owe nothing."

      Stop whining.

      Unfortunately, you cannot "easily renounce your US citizenship and have absolutely zero obligation to good old Uncle Sam whatsoever."

      Under US Law, the US Government will refuse to recognize a renunciation of citizenship if it is determined the renunciation is solely to avoid US Income Taxes.

    11. Re:Can't be too much competition... by gordguide · · Score: 1

      If you want to live and work in Ireland for Irish companies, then you could easily renounce your US citizenship, and have absolutely zero obligation to good old Uncle Sam whatsoever.

      And, since you and I both know that you're probably not making billions of dollars a year, it's extraordinarily likely that you'd get a tax credit for taxes paid to the Irish government for all or very nearly all of the taxes you "would" owe to Uncle Sam, which means that, in effect, you have to simply file a tax return each year, which says "I owe nothing."

      Stop whining.

      Unfortunately, you cannot "easily renounce your US citizenship and have absolutely zero obligation to good old Uncle Sam whatsoever."

      Under US Law, the US Government will refuse to recognize a renunciation of citizenship if it is determined the renunciation is solely to avoid US Income Taxes.

      Also, in order to receive credit for taxes paid to a Foreign Nation, there must be a pre-existing reciprocal tax treaty between (in this case) Ireland and the USA. You know for certain such a treaty exists?

    12. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Under US Law, the US Government will refuse to recognize a renunciation of citizenship if it is determined the renunciation is solely to avoid US Income Taxes.

      IF you already owe taxes, of course renunciation doesn't wipe the slate clean. But there is no obligation to explain WHY you are renouncing your citizenship, only that you:
      1) swear and affirm an oath to a consular official that you understand what you are doing, and that you absolutely renounce citizenship;
      2) pay the processing fee;
      3) fill out the required form;

      And if you're STUPID enough to say something like, "I'm just doing this for the tax savings," well then, you deserve what you get.

    13. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i don't want to renounce my US citizenship cuz I don't want to close off any open avenues in the future shoudl I want to return to US. Trump would block me with his wall!

      So what you're saying is that there's benefits you accrue from being an American citizen, but you don't wish to have to DO anything to earn those benefits? You sound like a freeloading communist, comrade. Perhaps you should be forcibly deported!

      I just don't want to be double taxed or taxed at all, for that matter. That's why the revolutionary war was faught.

      You aren't "double taxed" - there are very few situations where you would have to pay taxes at all - in most cases, in most countries, unless you are pulling in hundreds of thousands (US equivalent) every year, you won't owe a red fucking cent to the US government. You'll simply be required to fill out a form, take a credit for the taxes you paid to your host nation, and send the paperwork to the IRS.

      A hassle? Sure. But a small price to pay for all the benefits you get by retaining your citizenship.

      And if you pull down hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and have to pay taxes on some small part of that to the US government? You'll find sympathy for your plight in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.

    14. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what a load of horse shit. You are most definitely double taxed unless you are performing some menial job with bugger all income. The US is the only government that does this. and what exactly is the benefit?? my friends entire family just got through renouncing their US citizenship because of those insane tax laws, the sad thing is in the long run the US loses as the only people that go overseas that retain citizenship are those too poor to care while skilled engineers, medical and other professionally happily take up citizenship in the UK, Australia, NZ, Germany, Ireland etc etc.

    15. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A small price too pay? I don't think you quite realise how the US system works for citizens overseas. e.g. you go to Australia, Get a reasonable job at 150k doing IT admin work (this is by no means a rich income, average pay in Australia is 75k and it is one of the most expensive countries in world to live). Australian government will take around 43k of that in tax directly. The US government will then take a further approximate 13-15k, that is a fucking lot of money to keep citizenship which holds zero benefits.

    16. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Xest · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      The reason companies like Facebook will pick Ireland is because it's a tax haven, and because it's where they amass many billions of otherwise unproductive dollars.

      If they try and take it somewhere more useful then they'll have to inevitably pay the tax that, if they weren't avoiding (possibly even evading in some cases) it, they'd have had to have paid in the first place.

      So they have the following choices

      1) They have it sat in an Irish bank not really doing anything, and possibly depreciating in value due to lack of worthwhile investments in country

      2) They bring it back to a more useful jurisdiction. By useful I mean one that has a high concentration of skilled tech professionals that can grow their business with new products and so on, or where they can use it to acquire other companies in that jurisdiction. The fact is, there is only so much you can spend in a country with a population of 4.6million before you've hired all the worthwhile tech professionals, and bought and invested in all the worthwhile companies. The combined fortunes of money stockpiled by big tech in Ireland is way more than is available to sensibly spend on so Ireland isn't that "useful" as a place to invest in people or businesses because there's just nowhere near enough to go around. The downside of moving it to a different jurisdiction is they'll lose a sizable proportion of it to tax, so they don't.

      3) They spend it on something in Ireland that doesn't need much man power and doesn't involve trying to find a company to invest in or buy up.

      This is an obvious case of option 3 - it's something they can build to use some of that stockpiled cash but that doesn't really cause too much of a problem in trying to fight with all the other hundreds of billions of stockpiled money in Ireland to get the resources for it - there's no point building a large high skilled software/product development office there for example because the population of Ireland will never ever be able to sustain the required levels of staff to make it work.

      You could push the Irish government to allow for a new immigration scheme to allow them to bring in the necessary talent but then you'd get all the unskilled natives moaning about how they took their jobs even though they were never talented enough or qualified to do those jobs in question in the first place, which is a shame, because that ruins it for everyone because it means such a centre can't be built and the handful of people in the country who are talented and qualified enough don't have that opportunity made available to them.

      So you're stuck with things like data centres that require few staff, and call centres that require unskilled staff, but even they're becoming less common in Ireland because places like India can provide unskilled staff far more cheaply.

      They may as well use the money somehow, and this is about the best option available to them. It's probably near a village for the simple fact that that local council offered them the best local rates or subsidy to bring the handful of jobs and wealth it creates to their area.

    17. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You will see a lot more of these as time goes by.

      The Irish tech support sector is arguable one of the only success stories in Ireland since the introduction of the cow. A lot of it has admittedly to do with low corporation tax rates, but there is (english speaking) tech and engineering talent in Ireland, and the natural growth of the IT and network industry here since the 1980s has fed back on itself so that the Dublin region now has a fairly large supply of experience, talent and infrastructure. It's worth noting that the foundations of this were achieved at a time when most Irish Ministers and civil servants could not use email.

      Unfortunately, as a result of long term civic mismanagement, Dublin as a city has reached its natural limits. Despite being the least densly populated capital in Europe, the city is now approaching a schreeching housing, rental, traffic, and general living standards gridlock with no signs of improvement. Around last year, it probably became unfeasible and in fact undesirable to set up any large scale operation in Dublin as the costs, from land, to setup time, and most importantly to salaries and quality of life for globe hopping tech employees became too high even for the Unicorns.

      But that's only in Dublin itself, and a small number of congested environs. Once you move just a little beyond Dublin, traffic frees up, real estate prices head towards Montana levels, schools improve, local officials become both more pliable and accommodating, and best of all for IT companies life under (data) laws becomes a little quieter beyond the Pale. Yes, you won't be able to walk down to a play in the Abby Theater or have coffee with senior Ministers/ civil servants/ bankers in Dublin cafes, but this is the IT sector we are talking about, not finance.

      But the final secret weapon in out-of-Dublin Irish industry, is the culchie(rural dweller) technician. Living 100km or more away in rural Cork, etc, he has the skills of a San Fran techie, but the attitude of inter-state trucker. Once free of Dublin's M50 gridlock, a company suddenly has access to contractors, suppliers, and to a lesser degree employees from effectively the entire country. Rural Ireland being rural, equipped with brand new motorways, means that "distance" to Irish workers means less than most other Europeans would consider sane.

      Basically, if your employees can stick the relative "boonies" of the Irish provincial town -- and IT workers both can and will put up with more "modest" living conditions -- shifting the operation out to "villages" (actually considered town in Ireland) like Clonee makes a lot of sense for tech companies. If the Irish tech industry continues to grow, you can probably expect to hear of more of these centers popping up throughout Leinster, and possible the farther provinces as well -- unless the Government goes all in to save the Dublin housing market.

    18. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Muros · · Score: 1

      I just don't want to be double taxed or taxed at all, for that matter.

      You'll pay less tax in the US than here. If you're working in a good IT job, you probably get paid more in the US as well. Stay where you are.

    19. Re:Can't be too much competition... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking of moving to Ireland for a while (long story, I'm working around screwed up UK immigration laws). Can you recommend good places to go? I'm a software engineer, mostly doing embedded and some electronic design/debugging. I'd prefer to work remotely and don't really care too much about things like nightlife etc. I just want somewhere nice and not too expensive to live, with a good internet connection.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    20. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your kind of fascist won't be appreciated in modern Ireland. Well, maybe by the likes of the Iona Institute.

    21. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.revenue.ie/en/pract...

      You can view the details there.

    22. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) They have it sat in an Irish bank not really doing anything, and possibly depreciating in value due to lack of worthwhile investments in country

      2) They bring it back to a more useful jurisdiction.

      3) They spend it on something in Ireland that doesn't need much man power and doesn't involve trying to find a company to invest in or buy up.

      4) They have it sitting in a US$ account in a US bank, owned by an Irish subsidiary of a US company. The money is already back in the US, they just can't transfer ownership to the parent company without getting hit for tax. In the meantime, the parent company can take out huge loans from banks at rates that you and I could only dream about, using their tax-free "offshore" cash stockpile as collateral.

    23. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anywhere outside Dublin and the counties immediately around it, so rule out Dublin, Louth, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow. After that, for broadband, check out Eircom's efibre coverage. It's not the fastest in the world, fibre to a point then last mile vdsl, usually about 75 down 25 up, but probably the most reliable way of getting a decent connection outside the cities. And unless you like really long journeys to get anywhere, stay away from Kerry and Donegal.

    24. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      I am a US citizen, living and working in another country as a programmer. My salary is a tad above average for where I live. Every year, I file with the IRS and get $1000 deposited into my account (child credit for my daughter).

      Basically, the IRS is paying me $1000 to file.

    25. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are most definitely double taxed unless you are performing some menial job with bugger all income.

      No, you are not. You are almost certainly qualified for the foreign income exclusion and the foreign housing exclusion, which amounts to approximately 130,000 of your gross income that is completely excluded for tax purposes. Unless they pay janitors the equivalent of $130k there in East Botswana where you live, that's a VERY good salary - easily top 20% of earners in the US - which means, if you're a US citizen working abroad and complaining about the tax burden, you are most assuredly deserving of nothing but derision.

      the sad thing is in the long run the US loses as the only people that go overseas that retain citizenship are those too poor to care while skilled engineers, medical and other professionally happily take up citizenship in the UK, Australia, NZ, Germany, Ireland etc etc.

      Great - renunciation happens at a whopping rate of about 3000 people per year. How many H1Bs, educational visas, and green cards are issued every year? I assure you, friend, there's a lot more well-educated people in the UK, Australia, NZ, Germany, Ireland, India, China, Russia, and a host of other countries that would rather come here to live and work than the few thousand whining bitches each year who renounce their citizenship because of taxes.

    26. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are just MAKING SHIT UP.

      If you pay $43k to Australia, you can then take that 43k as a tax credit towards whatever you would owe the US. Since $150k puts you in the 25 or 28% federal tax bracket (depending on how you file), you would owe NOTHING to the US, since you would owe approximately $35,000 to the US government.

      $43,000 minus $35,000 = -$8,000

      Since you can't owe taxes lower than $0, you owe... $0.

      Presumably you're an Aussie who thinks he understands the US tax system because some cunt he met in the pub was crying about it. Stop. Just stop.

    27. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NO YOU CAN'T, it doesn't work as a tax credit, it works as a tax deduction thus lowering your taxable income and hence you pay tax on the lesser income.

    28. Re:Can't be too much competition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are wrong. for many countries it is only a partial credit so even if the tax rate is higher you will still pay some tax so it works more like a tax deduction in many countries. The differences in taxes on the various assets also means that even in a high tax country like Australia you could end up with a considerable US tax bill due to buying and selling of assets such as a home.

  2. well, can't be solar powered by turkeydance · · Score: 3

    not even a little bit.

    1. Re:well, can't be solar powered by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yea but it sure as hell can be wind powered in Ireland...

    2. Re:well, can't be solar powered by Jomidar · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Not a bit

    3. Re:well, can't be solar powered by radaos · · Score: 2

      Since wind turbines supply a substantial part of the grid, 18.3% in 2014, Facebook may indeed be powered by the Irish windmill.

    4. Re:well, can't be solar powered by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Fulled by pure pocheen

    5. Re:well, can't be solar powered by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      They have sunlight in Ireland, you know. TFA says it will be 100% renewable powered, so I imagine they will over-build capacity and contribute at least 100% of what they pull from the grid back again. Most likely some windmills and a lot of passive cooling.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  3. Another US Tax Dodge Scheme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Zucker will also make his daughter CEO of the facility and "loop-back" the salary and benefits to zero as they are all donated to a non-profit foundation! Guess which one!

    Ha ha

    1. Re:Another US Tax Dodge Scheme by speedplane · · Score: 2

      I love Ireland, it's a beautiful country with amazing people, but these tech and pharma companies are shameful in using Ireland as a tax dodge.

      --
      Fast Federal Court and I.T.C. updates
    2. Re:Another US Tax Dodge Scheme by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      The Irish government all also scum for stealing the social welfare of other countries citizens, as that theft reduces tax, revenues, citizens get reduced services and suffer and die. Ireland the filthy scum are feeding off the life blood of other countries citizens and they will pay a major price for that one day and that day is not that far off. It is not the tax cheating companies use Ireland, it is Ireland in the most corrupt fashion imaginable parasitically feeding off other countries economies.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    3. Re:Another US Tax Dodge Scheme by Muros · · Score: 1

      Not this bullshit again. Ireland has an efficient tax system where companies actually pay close to the tax rate that is advertised. Many countries in the EU have much higher official tax rates, but the actual rate paid after various incentives, remits and rebates is much lower. For example, the actual average rate paid in 2014 in Belgium, with an official corporate tax rate of 34.5%, was 6.5%. Comparing tax rates while ignoring all the ways various countries provide for ignoring them is pointless.

    4. Re:Another US Tax Dodge Scheme by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Ireland does not generate the revenue, it just allows tax cheats to shift that revenue to another location to cheat on taxes, they are scum as this is done intentionally and they should be subject to international sanctions. Don't generate the revenue, then you are not entitled to the taxes on that revenue, all tax havens should be destroyed via economic sanctions.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    5. Re:Another US Tax Dodge Scheme by Muros · · Score: 1

      Ireland does not generate the revenue, it just allows tax cheats to shift that revenue to another location to cheat on taxes, they are scum as this is done intentionally and they should be subject to international sanctions. Don't generate the revenue, then you are not entitled to the taxes on that revenue, all tax havens should be destroyed via economic sanctions.

      Ireland does not make tax cheats, incompatibilities in tax laws across jurisdictions do. The Irish government really doesn't care where multinational companies get taxed, it knows the profits aren't being earned in Ireland. All it is interested in is those multinationals creating jobs in Ireland, and they have created a huge number.
      And if you want to go after tax havens, maybe look at some of the big ones, like Switzerland, or the British Crown Dependencies.

  4. Why is this story here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whoopie, a data center. Just like the hundreds, or thousands of others. Seriously, why are we, effectively, promoting Facebook? No one on Slashdot uses Facebook. I mean, wtf?

  5. How advance it would be ? by Jomidar · · Score: 1

    As far as I know, Google owns the most advanced data center right now. And They never officially announced it. And now Mark claims about another one. What They mean by "most advanced and energy efficient data centers" ? Powered by solar Panels ?

    1. Re:How advance it would be ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can compare yourself (if others published their data)
      Facebook publishes their data in each datacenter page for example:
      https://www.facebook.com/LuleaDataCenter/app/115276998849912/
      https://www.facebook.com/PrinevilleDataCenter/app/399244020173259/

      The new DC will be 100% powered by wind power
      https://code.facebook.com/posts/1098354173542637/facebook-in-ireland-our-newest-data-center/

  6. "most advanced" in what area? by magarity · · Score: 2

    "and employ around 2,000 people during the construction phase"

    Interesting the need to specify during the construction phase. I assume "most advanced" means after construction it just needs 1 part time repair tech for the killer robot security dogs.

    1. Re:"most advanced" in what area? by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      Datacenters are very low employment areas, a handful of staff onsite (including security staff) can run a huge datacenter once operational. Their is not a lot of positives for local economies apart from the building phase.

    2. Re:"most advanced" in what area? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, most of the 2,000 people are only needed for the initial phase of the construction phase, which is removing the bottles from the site: https://youtu.be/QQX3_R-XaIs?t=10s

  7. Most important power metric for their data centers by JoeyRox · · Score: 1

    Privacy invasions/watt.

  8. The Double Irish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement

    The double Irish arrangement is a tax avoidance strategy that some multinational corporations use to lower their corporate tax liability. The strategy uses payments between related entities in a corporate structure to shift income from a higher-tax country to a lower-tax country. It relies on the fact that Irish tax law does not include US transfer pricing rules.[1] Specifically, Ireland has territorial taxation, and hence does not levy taxes on income booked in subsidiaries of Irish companies that are outside the state.

    The double Irish tax structure was pioneered in the late 1980s by companies such as Apple Inc..[2] In 2010 Ireland passed a law intended to counter such arrangements, though existing arrangements were exempt and lawyers have said that this change will cause no significant problems for multinational firms.[3]

  9. tax free I'll bet? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Let me guess.. it's like the Isle of Man which is tax free.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  10. Re:Sounds like another tax inversion by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Once everyone submits to a full Facebook anal probe.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  11. World's "Most Advanced" Tax Dodging Scheme by nuckfuts · · Score: 3, Funny

    FTFY

    1. Re:World's "Most Advanced" Tax Dodging Scheme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't matter how advanced it is. It's a sweaty A4 legal document sitting over in the Caymen islands in the end. That's all it is.

  12. Cloneed by lloy0076 · · Score: 1

    So when they duplicate their efforts somewhere else, it'll be cloned, right?

  13. Property tax? Income tax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do they get anything from that?

  14. Re:Property tax? Income tax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Depends on what the local government agreed to and who owns the property. Lot of data center companies rent the property and build the sites to their specifications. Lot of state and local governments wanting what they think will be great income after a certain amount of time will agree to low or no taxes for 5 years, which can be the life of a data center.

  15. Ireland? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we send Suckerturd to Ireland too? Pleeeease?