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Obama Calls For $4B 'Computer Science For All' Program For K-12 Schools (washingtonpost.com)

Etherwalk writes: President Obama plans to announce a four billion dollar computer science initiative for K-12 schools, where fewer than 15 percent of American high schools offer Advanced Placement (i.e. college 101) Computer Science courses. This is still very much open to negotiation with Congress, because it is part of a budget request from the President. So write your Congressman if you support it. The $4 billion would be doled out over a period of three years to any state that applies for the funds and has a well-designed plan to expand access to computer science courses, especially for girls and minorities.

18 of 246 comments (clear)

  1. Why not "Cooking for All"? by UsuallyReasonable · · Score: 5, Insightful

    After all, everybody eats. Not everyone is a programmer.

    1. Re:Why not "Cooking for All"? by dfn5 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Do kids not take Home Ec anymore? I took it. I still cook and sew to this day. But by all means, shoot down programming for everyone. The rest of the world is leaving the US behind. Let's help them do it faster.

      --
      -- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
    2. Re:Why not "Cooking for All"? by Etcetera · · Score: 3, Informative

      Do kids not take Home Ec anymore?

      No, they don't. That wasn't offered for much of the 90's (at least in San Diego, CA) and whatever was left was dismantled in the 2000's.

      There's a Regional Occupation Program that still provides a path for shop/trades, but I don't believe that's resulted in Home Ec coming back.

      Besides, nowadays it'd probably be considered sexist somehow, no matter what the gender ration was.

    3. Re:Why not "Cooking for All"? by UsuallyReasonable · · Score: 2

      Why not "Programming for All"?

      After all, everybody uses computers. Not everyone is a chef.

      Ya moron.

      Uses = programs? Gosh, who knew?

    4. Re:Why not "Cooking for All"? by UsuallyReasonable · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do kids not take Home Ec anymore? I took it. I still cook and sew to this day. But by all means, shoot down programming for everyone. The rest of the world is leaving the US behind. Let's help them do it faster.

      Money is a scarce resource, and it strikes me as idiotic in the extreme to think that we should spend money on the brainless notion that "everyone" should be a programmer. And if you're really worried about the world "leaving the US behind", one area in which they are certainly doing so is in not being fat. Maybe if people learned to cook, instead of consuming Happy Meals, we could compete on that front, eh?

    5. Re:Why not "Cooking for All"? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      Costs money to equip a classroom with appliances and supply it with raw materials used in cooking - money that can be "put to better use" increasing test scores and such, because increasing test scores increases funding in the NCLB model - teaching people practical life skills is not rewarded.

    6. Re:Why not "Cooking for All"? by McGruber · · Score: 2

      When I was in school, home ec was not an elective. It was mandatory and you spend half a year cooking and half a year sewing with finance and budgeting in both. I believe this was in 7th or 8th grade though. You only took it one year.

      Home Ec and Shop were mandatory classes for everyone back when I was in 7th and 8th grade, in a public school in NY State. One class period (of the day) was devoted to these classes -- 1/2 of the year was for shop, the other half for home-ec. In seventh grade, we learned sewing and woodwork; eighth grade was cooking and metalwork.

      We sewed aprons and chef hats in seventh grade; the home-ec teacher stored what we made, then we wore them in 8th grade cooking classes.

      I didn't really appreciate mandatory home-ec classes until I was in my 30s, when I was meeting women online -- I'd offer to cook for second dates if she brought the wine.

    7. Re:Why not "Cooking for All"? by lsllll · · Score: 2

      Costs money to equip a classroom with appliances and supply it with raw materials used in cooking - money that can be "put to better use" increasing test scores and such, because increasing test scores increases funding in the NCLB model - teaching people practical life skills is not rewarded.

      You know what costs a lot more than equipping a single classroom with appliances (which are usually donated anyway)? Turf on the fucking football field. And get off the test score bandwagon. Test scores don't mean shit and shouldn't translate to dollars. We need to change all that mentality, specially when teachers teach to the test and only on how to get a better test score. We just need better teachers.

      --
      Is that a roll of dimes in your pocket or are you happy to see me?
    8. Re:Why not "Cooking for All"? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      We did a short stent

      Crikey. My school didn't even offer anatomy, let alone surgery.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    9. Re:Why not "Cooking for All"? by gfxguy · · Score: 2

      Same here - took home ec. (although, ironically, we didn't do any actual economics, no financing or budgeting); cooking and sewing. The year before we did wood working, plastics (yes, we designed and molded some simple stuff) and photography. I live in the south now, my kids haven't taken any of those things.

      While I support the general idea of getting everybody familiar with computers, it's again one of those programs that should be an elective, and not forced on anybody. I might agree that a general computer knowledge class is important - but the kids all do that anyway through their normal coursework these days; they all seem to use computers and word processors and so forth. Programming is not for everyone. Basic math is, in ways kids don't understand until they grow up and see how a cashier can't make change when the computerized cash register is down. Basic science is, history, social studies... there's a reason these are all core subjects, even if you learn stuff you never need - you tend to realize how useful a lot of the stuff you learned actually is.

      The kids interested in technical fields will naturally gravitate to CS as elective courses, in the same way that artists took art electives in school, and people doing more blue collar type work gravitated towards shop and auto repair classes. Why force it?

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    10. Re:Why not "Cooking for All"? by gfxguy · · Score: 2

      Agreed... with this, and your responses to the snarky anonymous cowards. Most kids are already familiar with using computers, as it seems to be a part of most schools curriculum, and we don't need to spend more tax dollars on that given that the likes of MS, Apple, and Dell happily give away or heavily discount stuff to schools (expecting it will benefit them in the long run).

      Better cooking classes would do a lot more for the health of the U.S. than CS classes will do for the competitiveness of the U.S.. People that want to program learn to program, they don't need incentive. If they need incentive, they'll never be good programmers anyway. That doesn't mean I don't think CS is a great career choice, it just think that it's not for everyone, and it won't benefit most people in the way that other core classes do.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
  2. And what good will it do? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I weep for those 4 billions. What good we could have done with it, how many ivory back scratcher could have been bought...

    Don't get me wrong. I am all for teaching as many people as possible how to create code for computers. The problem is that very, very few people have the required mindset to do so. Yes, with current RAD tools pretty much anyone can create some kinda code that sorta works. Personally, I call this development "total job security for the foreseeable future".

    Why?

    Because I'm in Infosec.

    The amount of cargo-cult programming is stunning already. And with kids who don't give half a shit about programming, this is going to get worse. Especially when you make those kids think they can when in fact they can't. Remember the old saying: Those who can do, those who can't teach. And now ponder what greatness will come out of this.

    No. Sorry. Programming is something you have to want to do if you want to do it right. And let's be blunt here, code that's just plainly WRONG, we already have enough of.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:And what good will it do? by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      I couldn't agree more ... you could do FAR more to educate those kids than spend it on teaching them to code.

      How about a $4 billion school lunch program, or extra teachers, or tutoring, or athletics programs, or teaching them all the things they barely have the resources for now?

      This is just a huge monkey sink, created as a vanity/legacy project by rich assholes who think the world needs to code, instead of looking what kids actually need.

      This isn't really about improving the lives of kids and improving educational outcomes -- this is about the perception of doing something cool and trendy.

      But as long as government allows corporations to replace domestic workers with cheap foreign labor, the entire point of this program is being completely undermined.

      This is just spending money on the wrong things. Teaching kids to code should not be touted as some cure-all for society, because it's never going to be that.

      There's far bigger problems than kids who might never learn to code.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  3. Re:What a retarded concept by colinrichardday · · Score: 2

    Works for Ben Carson!

  4. Well Played, Microsoft! by theodp · · Score: 4, Informative

    Think Tanks: How a Bill [Gates Agenda] Becomes a Law: In 2012, the Center for Technology Innovation at Brookings hosted a forum on STEM education and immigration reforms, where fabricating a crisis was discussed as a strategy to succeed with Microsoft's agenda after earlier lobbying attempts by Bill Gates and Microsoft had failed. "So, Brad [Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith]," asked the Brookings Institution's Darrell West at the event, "you're the only [one] who mentioned this topic of making the problem bigger. So, we galvanize action by really producing a crisis, I take it?" "Yeah," Smith replied (video). And, with the help of nonprofit organizations like Code.org and FWD.us that were founded shortly thereafter, a national K-12 CS and tech immigration crisis was indeed created.

    Microsoft supports White House initiative to expand access to computer science: " Microsoft is one of many companies in the tech sector that is committed to this effort [said Microsoft President Brad Smith]. In addition to our business initiatives, those of us who are involved in philanthropy, including such groups as Code.org, will do more. The private sector and philanthropy cannot fill this gap without public funding. And if we're going to accelerate progress as a nation, we need federal funding. That's why today's proposal is so important. It can provide the accelerant to help more states and school districts progress more quickly."

  5. Re:What a retarded concept by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While that's true, computer science is a good way to teach problem solving skills that are going to be useful no matter what you do.

    I don't think they need to go too in depth. Just give the kids some guidance and turn them loose with Scratch or something similar where they can be creative. You're not going to turn everyone into a programmer, but you might get a few more kids interested who might otherwise not be.

  6. Re:It would be more useful.... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

    Woman tend to value job stability over income, and it's hard to find that kind of stability in IT.

    Where I work in government IT, many of my coworkers are women. Most of them served in the military.

    40 hour work weeks, reasonable pay for the work/brainpower involved, job security, etc.

    I get 40 hours a week (no overtime), pay is respectable but I could get 40% more in the private sector with fewer perks, job security for the next four years as project contract is fully funded, I get federal holidays off, a full benefit package, and 20 paid time off days.

  7. Self-congratulatory nonsense, born in the 90's by anyaristow · · Score: 2

    very, very few people have the required mindset to [create code]

    While there's some truth to this, the self-congratulatory attitude that comes with it has ruined the entire field.

    Prior to the 90's, programming was about solving problems, and a good solution was a simple solution. Then soccer moms entered the field and programmers didn't feel so special anymore. (Exaggerating only slightly) They responded by making everything as complex as possible, and turned from problem solving to learning minutiae, so that only autistic people want to do the job, and now they can call themselves specially suited...because they made it that way. Programmers are now so afraid of doing something their peers would disapprove of, for fear of not demonstrating the minutiae they've learned, that they won't design solutions for themselves. Now they have to have frameworks and use accepted buzzwords that someone else made up to describe techniques someone else created, and they saddle their employers with having to support soon-to-be-obsolete technology that they spend more time getting to work than if they had just solved the damned not-very-complex problem they were given.