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Massive Layoffs Hit University of Copenhagen
jones_supa writes: University of Copenhagen is cutting deep into its staff to cut operation costs. Even though a great deal of the savings are aimed at administration and service, they are expected to affect the quality of education and research many years ahead. More than 500 teachers, researchers and employees in service and administrative jobs will be leaving. This corresponds to 7% of all staff. 209 employees can anticipate being laid off, while 323 jobs are either discontinued or terminated via voluntary redundancy. In addition to this, the university will have to reduce its PhD intake by 10% in the coming years. This is the outcome of the government's 2016 budget which imposes huge savings on research and education. As you might remember, we just heard about a similar situation in University of Helsinki in Finland.
They can all learn to code and find new jobs!
I guess academia is nerdy but who cares? Europe is crumbling, this is no surprise.
That is cheaper than 14 year in Afghanistan and a decade in Iraq stirring a hornets nest
You make it sound like we are living in the 14th century or something. I though we had such technology and productivity that we're going to mine the asteroid belt!! But yet you seem to think people taking time off to.. live, and society will collapse?
It seems like the human brain evolved in scarcity, and doesn't understand the plenty we live in now.
Wish they'd have massive layoffs at liberal arts universities. Those types need to see the real world.
Just send all the Muslim refugees to college for free. Enrollment will spike. Problem solved.
You're welcome!
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
That's quite a leap of logic their Adolph. A couple of universities lay off some redundant staff and Europe is falling apart? Really?
You need to stop doing methamphetamine...
No, if you keep spending more than you bring in, society won't collapse. Just the economy.
This is the outcome of the government's 2016 budget which imposes huge savings on research and education.
You seem to have misspelled "cuts".
~Idarubicin
If you want to read more about the flipside of the Nordic Model, read "The Almost Nearly Perfect People" by Booth. Then think about whether you really want to live in a society like that.
This is silly. We as a whole of humanity may have enough means of production to satisfy probably not only basic needs. This however does not take into account that the wealth distribution is not even throughout societies thus making providing for all rather difficult. In other words - we may have the capacity to give all a place to live plus bread and circus but the capacity required is either occupied by something else or being owned by people that may not wish to share all that much. Forced sharing as in Soviet Union has so far not been very successful. In ages past we have solved this problem by moving large groups of population to empty places or places where local population could not defend itself. I do not see all that many places to move so indeed redistribution may be the only solution but this will not go down well. I would expect lost of blood being shed about that in coming decades. Unless of course productivity increases that much that we get star trek type of economy - I suppose we die under mountain of trash if this will become true or because somebody will try to fix population into his/her vision of universal ideas (the -isms). I recall there was an idiot that claimed history is over when communism fell - I laughed back then and now I am proven right once again.
How else can you pay for the influx of immigrants? These people are over paid. For the same amount of money, you can feed and cloth twice of many people who are escaping a war torn region. We do not need higher education any more. Only need to read the Koran.
They have an insane amount of lecturers, who creep along in acedemia always close to full unemployment, running seminars which are barely visited by students. Less PhD students is also a good idea, it's time to stop throwing a PhD out to anyone who writes something that superficially resembles a book without any real quality control. Half of all theses are not worth the paper they are printed on.
However, to fair, I'm pretty sure the current fascist government does it for all the wrong reasons and certainly not to improve science and education.
The economy is just a consensual agreement about things. It is not something like the speed of light or gravity. We choose it. If we can't choose something better, then we deserve to collapse.
A 7% reduction (where over half are voluntary meaning only 3% actually get sacked) doesn't seem so unusual and by no means massive. In all companies I've been there has been cuts that were both bigger in absolute and percentage terms, hardly raised a headline. But now it's the public sector so it is somehow a disaster not only nationally but also news-worthy internationally?!
It seems in the past year, some danes have figured out that whenever the government does something they disagree with they can run to the international media with "Oh look how evil they are!" stories and easily have them printed. Even though the actual news content is utterly trivial, and in fact many other countries have been doing the same "evil" thing.
There has been a massive upsurge in hiring at University of Copenhagen in recent years. A tripling of PhD students over 10 years. Any half-decent grad student gets routinely offered 2-3 PhD positions if they finish, and can easily get research assistant and PostDoc positions after they finish, and then teachers, asisstant professors and what not after that. Everyone knows they are not all top scientists - quite far from it. In fact many of them couldn't make the cut at a private company, but yet consider themselves superior just because they got a trivial PhD degree.
So on balance, it seems only in order with a little clean-up - just as many other companies have to from time to time. By the way, the actual cut in funding was only 2% so it can't explain why they now have to fire 7%.
I would say that cornerstone Nordic universities doing massive layoffs is a sign of problems somewhere.
What does "wealth" mean if you agree that we "have enough means of production to satisfy probably not only basic needs"?
Wealth is whatever we agree it is. In other words, you still think like the animals that we are.
Uppsala University is still doing more than fine though
uuuuhuh... Only one problem though, Europe isn't christian, the wast majority of our population is either atheist or agnostic. Nowadays anyone claiming to be a real believing and devout christian is regarded as being a little "funny"
This is the template for how education becomes captured:
1: Tank the economy while preserving/worsening current distribution of wealth.
2: Force economic restrictions on governments, due to the crisis (this is why the non-solution of austerity is the only 'solution' allowed).
3: When government is forced to cut education, replace funding with private funding.
4: Use private funding to dictate what gets taught, by who, and exclude anything not favourable to elite narratives (i.e. kill all economic teaching, that doesn't favour the current mainstream, to eliminate any possible ideological challenge to the status quo).
All these continents are yours, dear tourist. Except Europe. Attempt no landing there.
Yes, a problem in the right-wing governments we've been saddled with for the last ~15 years, who have been running a systematic decimation of the Danish welfare system, in order to pad the pockets of themselves and their corporate cronies.
Eat the rich.
snuff sales are down?
more money for immigrants and rapefugees
less for education
implementing islam in progress
C U C K S
+1
Well, looking at the facts would change that view on denmark (in schweden your use case could possibly apply)
Numbers for Denmark
Refuges
2,000 (2014)
14,000 (2015)
on a
Population ~5,650,000 (for decimal weak people ~5,65 Million - 5,65*10^6)
which would mean for 2015 a huge 0,25% refugee intake ratio on the population.
Current Situation:
The right wing government with their anti-immigrant action increases the hostility towards imigrants and a bad climate for "progress" in general.
The ageing danes are entering a form of a "solid state society", which is simply wishful thinking because ageing is the progress that breaks the solid state.
People started leaving Denmark(since arround 2010) not because of the many (0,25%) refugees but because of the hostile right wing environment.
(I know nordic nordish danes that now live in germany that simply state: current danish society = narrow minded society = no fun, no progress, no interest in new things)
And the immigrants/refugees in denmark are faced with exclusion and right out xenophobia, leading to a big dependence on wellfare.
Thus generating a negative impact on forgeign investment into the country, now having an impact on the economy. The growing impact on the danish economy is the ageing of the population and with a hostility towards immigrants that won't change - and no the danish people won't start procreating "just because".
Conclusion:
Get a rightwing government and your economy pays the bill. Education isn't the prime directive for a rightwing government, but for a prospering country it is essential.
No indeed. You are not good Christians. But to deny that European culture descends from Christian ideals is to deny reality. I see you proudly preserve your catherals, and Christian art. It suggests pride in your past. The muslims you take in have no pride in your past, at all. They want to replace you.
The Nordic welfare states are dropping like flies.
Eh? By "the Nordic welfare states" I'm assuming you mean Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland?
Let's examine that claim. Sweden is doing great, Denmark almost as great. Norway has the oil (and a *lot* of it) and has had the god foresight to save oil money from the good times to insulate against poorer times. Norway is doing exceptionally great. Which leaves Finland. Sure, Finland has challenges which can be attributed to a disrupted monoculture. But they are not dismantling the welfare state by any means. They're innovating. None of the Nordic countries are about to "drop" like a fly.
I don't know why you would try to paint a picture of the Nordic welfare states failing. They're not. Not by any stretch of imagination. Do you live in a place where successful welfare states would be an inconvenient counterpoint to your political point of view?
Yes - there's challenges in the Nordic elfare systems, like with any other model. Right now the Nordic welfare states (and the German welfare state) are under pressure because a lot of migrants would like to live in a place with generous social benefits, free education (and at least in Denmark you will even receive full state-paid scholarship all the way through college), free healthcare, retirement welfare etc.
Other countries have other challenges. In the US the average middle-class income has stagnated sinde the 1970ies. The wealthy are getting wealthier, the middle-class is struggling and the poor has gotten even more poor. US social mobility has degraded to a level where "the American dream" is but a distant fantasy.
Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*
Since every kid show is trying to sell you on a smiling slobbering airplane its gone barnstormer vs collegiate whim worder, nows probably actually the time to consider college since they are trying to sell people on the trade since drones took off.
You must also realize...they don't care. You are an infidel to them. Christian, agnostics, atheist, secular humanist...it does not matter. You are not a true adherent to their particular strain of Islam so you must be killed or subjugated.
With the Denmark's future population structure (majority will be of "Mediterranean" origin) they won't need to spend too much on education as that is not something young people of the mentioned ethnic origin value. Danes as well may also close all pork farms.
In the future there will be less need for an education. There will also be less need for a lot of people. Why waste money and time getting a degree when you're never going to do anything with it, and if you're not among the elite you're marked for the killing fields already? We're about to fill mass graves with the bodies of the unprivileged, why waste resources on deluding them?
The refuguees number for 2015 is more like 30.000. And at least the same amount to come in 2016. Besides, it is expensive for a country to take in 0.75% or even 0.25% of citizens who do not produce but will live off the produce of the existing population (many of which are not productive either). Compare the ratio to other countries and their population size. I don't think the U.S. would have an appetite for taking in millions of people annually that would have to get free housing, food, healthcare etc. But this is what it would amount to should the U.S. take the same amount of refugees on a per capita basis. While good education system is a necessity for society to prosper, it doesn't mean that no cut backs are ever possible in education, just as society shouldn't spend an infinite amount of money on education. Giving people degrees that either lead to unemployment or only employment as PhD's teachers, etc within said field, or as administrative staff in the government in positions where the subject matter of the degree has no relevance, certainly won't benefit Denmark as a society. For instance, people take a 5 year degree in History and then people just an office worker in the government. But because of their degree they are now entitled to a salary as an acdemic even though their degree is not doing anything good in the position! If the same position had been filled by someone without a degree, the pay would have been about half. That's just crazy! Can't imagine it being like that anywhere else. That's just one of many, many things that will have to change in the coming years because it is costing a shit-ton of money and is outright counterproductive in terms of actually making people seek productive careers. Maybe the people you know who left in 2010 were just angry that there was starting to be a limit on the hand-outs (in terms of either welfare or "easy" public sector jobs). They better watch out, it seems suchs hand-outs are shrinking in just about all countries.
There is no need for science or education in Europe's Islamic future. This is just one small step for Denmark so they can come closer to an Islamic state. Nothing to see here. Move along.
5. Unlimited student loans with no bankruptcy.
5A the professor white there own books and change them each year with them taking a nice cut of the books cost.
5B lot's of hidden fees and other costs that can just be added to the student loan
Bullshit that apparently conservatives have no problem implementing themselves.
No, he's right. If the U.S. occupiers ever withdrew from Europe, it would revert right back to the bickering fiefdoms of medieval times. The increasing right wing nationalism all over the continent is a step in that direction.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
In the end what gave Germany its economic edge was its refusal to adopt minimum wage for so long and maintain relatively low levels of welfare, sure they implemented minimum wage now but they still have all the momentum mercantilism gave them. They got the better classes of immigrants because of this as well.
Or in other words, the people who leave Denmark for Germany are leaving for a country which is where it's at because it had right wing economic policies to begin with. These same people will soon leave Europe altogether and then be smug about on being on the right side of history with the safety of an ocean in between them and Africa and the Middle East, never once recognizing the disasters they caused.
Europe will not go off the cliff because they are becoming xenophobic, they are going off the cliff because they weren't xenophobic enough to begin with. Japan has been xenophobic from the start, they are much farther along in demographic decline, they are doing fine.
Able people are leaving not because of right-wing economics, but because of ever-increasing taxes that are required to fund the socialist utopia of providing everything for everyone. You're on to something with the ageing problem, but the solution is not to hoard people from a culture that is the complete polar opposite of western values, with almost zero chance of ever being employed.
[..] Besides, it is expensive for a country to take in 0.75% or even 0.25% of citizens who do not produce [..]
Refugees tend to be among the most productive people in the country. They work; they build businesses and they start to employ people creating jobs for others. It is possible, by making it impossible for them to get jobs, to stop this. I think also, selectively allowing in single adult males might make this problematic (as we seem to be doing) but even then it's very likely to be true.
If the refugees are costing money then this is almost entirely the fault of the right wingers.
You are clearly living in fantasy land. As even studies from the most left wing institutions show it has up to now been a huge drag on the economy. The majority of them can't even read or write let alone speak either Danish or English. Yes it seems some of them did start own businesses especially from the generations around 20 years ago. Interestingly there's very little tax revenue from those businesses so they probably don't even pay for themselves let alone the vast majority who are unemployed and not running businesses
Well, perhaps refugees coming to USA, but not the ones coming to Denmark. They are a huge expense.
A country where you risk having to live on the street if you don't get make it versus one where you are guaranteed roof over your head for life, seems to attract different kinds of people.
Refugees tend to be among the most productive people in the country.
Unfortunately, as every European citizen knows by now, that is usually not true in the case of Muslims. It is for most other refugees but Muslims think they are entitled to a pay, house and free everything for doing nothing.
I bet WHITE GENOCIDE didn't slow down in that 'university', nor in any other...
Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world. Where none suffered. Where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed that we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that as a species, human beings define their reality through misery and suffering.
We as a whole of humanity may have enough means of production to satisfy probably not only basic needs.
Not the whole of humanity, but individuals as well. The question is, why don't they?
..right wing idiots don't like studied people. Let's them seem inferior, see current government. That's why they reduce the education, and blame so refugees.. and a lot of americans here seem to agree !!
"But I believe that as a species, human beings define their reality through misery and suffering."
Wrong. Our environment defines our reality. We simply define how we choose to live in it. Whether we are miserable or suffering in the process is hardly relevant. If we make choices that ultimately degrade that environment, like the Danish and Finnish governments are doing now, it will only constrain options later.
The reason for the massive cutbacks in education funding isn't simply a result of the "lack of money", it's rather a conscious decision to protect others from a similar fate. A cynic might venture a guess that it is largely the salaries of politicians and their patrons that will be spared the budgetary knife. Whether that decision is a good one will be determined by whether or not whatever it is the others who have been spared are offering proves more useful and desirable than what might have come from what so many academics might have achieved. Clearly, only time will tell.
You're conflating immigrants with refugees. They are not equivalent. Refugees tend to be a massive drain, especially in the large numbers, whereas immigrants are vetted and tend to bring motivation and skills.
...in their own country?
As a well-off American with European citizenship, I've been shopping around for somewhere to move my family to, job-willing. I'm open to virtually anywhere in Northern Europe, but Denmark is near the bottom (of the top still, don't get me wrong) because of how frequently I hear how conservative and nationalistic they are. I want to live in a country where we can integrate without feeling intentionally excluded or pressured.
I'm pretty certain I (and people like me) would be a net benefit to their economy, especially since I bring in a lot of foreign contracting, but I'm really turned off by the way their government is headed.
Europe was doing a lot better before Christianity than it was in the period when it was dominant.
No indeed. You are not good Christians. But to deny that European culture descends from Christian ideals is to deny reality. I see you proudly preserve your catherals, and Christian art. It suggests pride in your past. The muslims you take in have no pride in your past, at all. They want to replace you.
Very few would deny that Europe has a vast Christian cultural heritage. However, at one point you realize that there is no reason to believe other than "some people told you so". And then you stop.
Your numbers are factually incorrect.
In Denmark, the number of asylum applications in 2015 was 18,492. That's applicants, the number actually granted asylum is significantly lower. So far, it seems the trend for 2016 will be less Syrian refugees (as most of those who are able to flee have already done so), and more refugees from comparatively peaceful countries in Africa and Asia (e.g. Afghanistan). Where almost all Syrian asylum seekers received asylum, that is not the case for refugees from other countries. As such, while the number of applicants might rise, the number of people actually granted asylum in 2016 is not expected to grow significantly.
When you then factor in that most of the expenses of receiving and processing these refugees is paid from money already allocated to foreign aid, it becomes quite clear that no, asylum seekers are not making a significant dent in the overall budget.
Solution to ageing:
Then propose a different solution, like yeah, people from Germany or people from the Netherlands or people from Poland or people from Slovakia should immigrate to Denmark out of their own ageing countries.
Look around you. Yours and also mine favourite cultural heritage is decreasing in every european country.
But france has positive ageing .. yeah because of that "unwanted" cultural heritage population.
Another hurdle to take is also the danish nationalism,
which is also hostile towards the not so complete polar opposite of the western values.
(When I spit north I get more likely problems with a danish cop, than a german, and my car radio receives more danish channels than german ones .. ok to be fair there are more danish channels, and when I'm not carefull my cellphone roams into denmark.)
And about the "taxes", those where riduculusly high even during the 90s but yes the funding of the wellfare state is extreme and a burden to its funding.
Denmark lost Russian market due to sanctions.
I wonder if the new economical divisions in Europe start to manifest themselves at the West too?
In the USA, the jails have roofs. Just saying.
Yes for applications maybe but I am talking about the actual numbers of arrivals and never mentioned applications. There is often a month long delay before these get filed and registered. Regarding rejected appl: how many of these actually get deported (I.e. stop costing money) when their application is rejected? All the countries have huge lists of rejected immigrants but they are impossible to send home and end up staying. Yes some of the money are coming from other budgets which the government gets a lot of flag for. But clearly you can only do this so many times. 2016 has already brought thousands of new applications (yes over 2000) and it is not like the expense from the 2015 refugees has stopped, we are just taking on a bigger and bigger annual expense. Soon there won't be more foreign aid budgets to cut. Besides despite of this cut in foreign aid it is still costing billions of kr in new money that's going from the main budget. It is fair enough if you think we should spend this money for moral or other reasons, just don't downplay the actual cost because there is wide agreement among ALL parties that it is a huge cost! Also, many asylum seekers are men entitled to family reunification meaning that the number of actual refugees will triple. The recent toughening of these rules affect only a minority of refugees so won't change this multiplicator effect much. It has been seen time and time again.
Modern western society, at least at a civic level, is foundationally based on denying reality. Economic reality, geographical reality, historical reality, social reality, financial reality, legal reality.
You're trying to assert the historical philosophical and theological influences of european civilization in a time when the concepts of paying back money you owe or respecting the sovereignty of elected government are barely even acknowledged as such, let alone respected. There is no longer any western culture or civilisation worth a name to look up to anymore. We have reached the "soviet decline" phase of our culture, and just as no amount of Tolstoy could save the USSR, so too no amount of appeals to long abandoned ethoses (ethoi?) will help the west arrest its inevitable and presently ongoing downward metamorphosis.
Universities are being downsized all over the continent. How many more hints do people fucking need?
The righties in America all think that they're invincible and that bad things won't hasten to them so a social safety net is just fit shirkers out to steal their money.
That's why those turkeys keep voting for Christmas while the people they vote for extract more and more from them.
They hate the Nordic countries because it gives the lie to the idea that any kind of social democracy will destroy their way of life so anything negative about those countries is seized as an example that those Scandinavian commies are a failure.
The parlous state of the US infrastructure that is supposed to be paid for by their taxes never enters their consciousness except as an excuse to privatise everything in the name of efficiency which is actually the worst of all worlds, setting up private monopolies at taxpayers' expense.
You must also realize...they don't care. You are an infidel to them. Christian, agnostics, atheist, secular humanist...it does not matter. You are not a true adherent to their particular strain of Islam so you must be killed or subjugated.
You must also realise, that most people do not believe in their religion to that degree, in fact that is a big part of why people are fleeing into Europe, because they're sick of dealing with extremists and simply want a normal life, with a normal job so they can have normal kids in a normal house.
It also does not help that Europe and America are bombing their homes.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
In the last couple of decades I have seen educational institutions acquire prime real estate, charge students through the roof for tuition and books exponentially, place credit card booths hither and yon, situate food outlets that charge more for food and beverages than outside said institutions. Schools are a business, not a place of education and it is appalling. What else are they going to do but operate like the heartless corporations they are. Somehow, educational institutions lost touch with their mandate.
uuuuhuh... Only one problem though, Europe isn't christian, the wast majority of our population is either atheist or agnostic.
Nope. 74.5% Christian in 2010.
"Let's examine that claim. Sweden is doing great, Denmark almost as great. Norway has the oil (and a *lot* of it) and has had the god foresight to save oil money from the good times to insulate against poorer times. Norway is doing exceptionally great. Which leaves Finland. Sure, Finland has challenges which can be attributed to a disrupted monoculture. But they are not dismantling the welfare state by any means. They're innovating. None of the Nordic countries are about to "drop" like a fly."
Sweden is not doing great. Most of their GDP increase is fueled by migration related activities and financed by borrowed money.
Norway is not doing exceptionally great, not even great. We did well when the oil price was above 100 USD/barrel. Now, with an oil price around 35 USD/barrel, Norway is in deep shit. Both countries have huge unemployment rates, partially camoflaged and hidden.
Sweden's and Norway's economies are mostly fueled by one thing these days: Migration. Migration keeps demand for housing high and hence housing costs high, allowing the middle class to finance their consumption by borrowing on their property. Migration also generates lots of activities, inflating the GDP.
Remove migration and the property market will collapse. GDP will also shrink. Basically, the nordic welfare states are pyramid schemes.
They're simply not doing a good job. Used to be, when Europeans set their sights on some other nation non populated by their kin, they would completely eradicate the populace.
I'm sure well of americans would have no problem integrating. The nationalistic anti-immigration sentiments only apply to people from "third world countries", which is still sad.
Many people who self-identify as Christians do not actually believe in fairy tailes or attend mass; they merely identify with the heritage and tradition.
It is wrong to characterize the Danish government as right wing. Compared to American standards, it is socialist. One supporting party of the current cabinet is the Danish People's party which is against immigration from non-western countries, but very much for foreign aid, so long as it is provided locally.
The current cabinet came to power summer 2015. Before that we had a "left-wing" cabinet which had been ruling since 2011. Even before that we had a "right-wing" government which had held power since 2001.
If people are leaving Denmark (which they aren't) I suspect it would be because of the highest tax-burden IN THE WORLD (>50% of BNP).
Please check your facts before regurgitating political propaganda.
Japan has been xenophobic from the start, they are much farther along in demographic decline, they are doing fine.
Only if by "doing fine" we ignore Japan's massive debts. They have a higher public debt per GDP than anyone else, including such outstanding examples as Zimbabwe or Greece.
...is what they used to call this.
"The wisdom of the Patriarchs was that they *knew* they were fools." --Master Foo
And here we see the danger of projection. In fact most Muslims do believe in their religion. They may not believe that ISIS has it right. They might think that they just don't have the courage to do what is right. But they do believe, and their children believe even more strongly. Unfortunately, without the cultural context of their parents to restrain the darker impulses of the zealots, some of them fall prey to demagogues. In 20 years, Europe will be in real trouble if it can't regain its cultural (religious?) confidence.
If the economy is setup right, it's a self organizing system. If it's setup wrong, it's the ultimate mechanism of the police state.
Be careful what you choose and study history.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
They also have huge savings rates. Japanese government and corporate debt is mostly held by Japanese people.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Sweden is not doing great. Most of their GDP increase is fueled by migration related activities and financed by borrowed money.
Nope. Not even close. Sweden is doing exceptionally well right now, and our government spending is well within bounds, the current refugee crisis notwithstanding. Our economy is as always driven by export, with the manufacturing industry again having retaken the export crown. No "migration" in sight, and our economy is most certainly em not driven by housing costs. (In fact it's putting a damper on our economy as a whole). Borrowing to fund spending was many years ago.
That Norway is in deeper trouble long term is true, as its economy is much too dependent on oil. However, with so much money put away for a rainy day, those problems are far far away. Even the Norwegians should be able to plan ahead with that much warning. And as a result of the krona losing in value other exports are doing much better.
Really, where do you get this stuff from?
Stefan Axelsson
"Really, where do you get this stuff from?"
Well, I was born in Sweden, live in Norway and follow both economies on & off.
FTR, Norway has no money put away for a rainy day. All has been allocated to state pensions and immigration related pensions. Seriously, all of it is tied up to pensions. If you read Norwegian, here's a three-year old article explaining the situation. https://www.document.no/2013/0... Things haven't gotten any better since then, and as late as today Goldman Sachs estimated that there's an 88 per cent risk that Norway will enter recession within the next year or two. IMHO the risk is 100 per cent.
As for Sweden: The debt /GDP ratio isn't too bad, it's about 44%. http://www.nationaldebtclocks.... Trouble is that it's rising fast and that the outlook is bearish. Check out the stock markets so far this year. The world economy is in trouble and so is Swedish exports. At the same time, the Swedish state's costs are record high and cannot be reduced significantly. Private debt has almost quadrupled in Sweden since the nineties, and unemployment is high for Sweden. See http://statsskuld.se/ . Youth unemployment is even higher and will get a lot worse when Swedish youth return from Norway.
Swedish exports seems to head south (http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/swe/#Exports ). Trade balance is fine, but state income will be severely reduced if export is reduced. Reduced state income means increased state borrowing, since the state seems to be unable to reduce its expences.
Here's a link to a Swedish report from december 2015 confirming what I wrote upstream. A quick quote from page 28:
Hur skall den svenska relativt höga tillväxten ses i ett internationellt perspektiv? Under senare år har Sverige vuxit snabbare än såväl EU15-kollektivet som Tyskland. Men det beror främst på den höga arbetskraftstillväxten. Ekonomin har vuxit eftersom ny arbetskraft tillkommit, delvis som ett resultat av betydande invandring.
I och med att den snabbare BNP-tillväxten ackompanjerats av snabbare tillväxt i arbetskraften har Sverige inte klättrat så mycket i välståndsligan. I själva verket är det endast under de allra sista åren som Sverige har utklassat konkurrenterna. Mycket tyder på att den senaste tidens uppgång är ett cykliskt fenomen som rimligen är associerat med de faktorer som drivit på den inhemska efterfrågan.
http://research.handelsbanken....
In other words, GDP increase is fueled by migration.
The same report has a dark chapter about Sweden's employment rates. See pages 5-8. The main takeaway is that almost twenty per cent of all migrants tend to be unemployed, and that number is rising. If Sweden continues to accept too many migrants, the state finances will collapse. Either that or the welfare state will die.
Actually I think the government said, if you educated liberals want to adopt a political cause that's at odds with the establishment position, there will be a lot fewer of you next year.
Most of these refugees are unskilled for positions in European cities. With the skills they do have, they should start by employing those skills to help their brethren. It may take them 1-3 years of focused effort to acquired the skills to fit in in their new environment. Doesnt seem like they have much initiative though.
Refugees tend to be among the most productive people in the country.
Unfortunately, as every European citizen knows by now, that is usually not true in the case of Muslims. It is for most other refugees but Muslims think they are entitled to a pay, house and free everything for doing nothing.
Fucking bullshit.
Stephan
Finland has the Euro. More of a liability than an advantage. Denmark, Norway, and Sweden still have their own currencies.
And that's completely ignoring the many positive signs, and our documented ability to deal with similar problems. (I'm old enough to have first hand experience of the last two major ones, and we came out of both smelling like roses. Compared to e.g. the US, which seem to be fundamentally incapable to deal with their deficit no matter what.).
You're also completely ignoring the many positive signs towards dealing with our current problems.
So, you've committed the classic problem of foretelling doom and gloom, on par with Stellan LundstrÃm. ("Exports seems to be ... will be reduced ... if reduced ... seems ..." etc. etc.) And it's funny. He never seems to be right, even though he's been at it for a very long time now. Even a broken clock and all that.
So of course, if you foretell doom and gloom you will of course be right eventually, but you're the kind of guy that says that "since we're producing record numbers right now, things will only get worse". While that's trivially true, that's all it is. Trivial.
Sweden has a robust and diversified export economy (as opposed to Norway), and there aren't any signs that's about to change. Current immigration is a challenge, but there are clear signs that problem will be dealt with (in many different ways) in fairly short order, so no long term threat there.
Stefan Axelsson
"Yes for applications maybe but I am talking about the actual numbers of arrivals and never mentioned applications."
If they don't apply for asylum, then they can't get benefits and as such they're not a burden on the taxpaying society, so your inference is moot.
Once granted asylum, refugees are entitled to work and almost all of them do. Looking across history on all countries, immigrants (refugees or otherwise) have always been a powerhouse for the economy they come into. The myth of "drain on our resources" is just that - a myth - usually perpetuated by xenophobes.
"In the end what gave Germany its economic edge was its refusal to adopt minimum wage for so long"
It didn't need to. Even when minimum wage legislation was finally put into effect, the number of employers historically paying that level or below was tiny.
The driver for actually adopting minimum wage laws was the increase in ethically challenged american-style companies *ahem*amazon*ahem* which paid as little as they possibly could, resulting in employees needing state assistance. In a properly functioning economy this kind of corporate welfare leeching is frowned upon and the germans _definitely_ frown on it.
"They also have huge savings rates"
Specifically because the Japanese govt saw the pensions/retirement trainwreck that's engulfing the developed world coming 50 years ago and set policies to ensure that japanese saved for their retirement.
western governments have been selling a fraud since the 1970s to baby boomers that the future was covered in order to get away with misappropriating taxation and encouraging debt-driven spending.