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Talos Secure Workstation Is Free-Software Centric — and $3100 [Updated]
jones_supa writes: These days, the motivation to use open source software for many people is to avoid backdoors placed by intelligence organizations and to avoid software that has hidden privacy-intruding characteristics. For the operating system and userspace software, open choices are already available. The last remaining island has been the firmware included in various ROM chips in a computer. Libreboot has introduced an open BIOS, but it is not available for newer systems featuring the Intel ME or AMD PSP management features. Talos' Secure Workstation fills this need, providing a modern system with 8-core POWER8 CPU, 132 GB RAM, and open firmware. The product is currently in a pre-release phase where Raptor Engineering is trying to understand if it's possible to do a production run of the machine. If you are interested, it's worth visiting the official website. Adds an anonymous reader about the new system, which rings in at a steep $3100: "While the engineers found solace in the POWER8 architecture with being more open than AMD/Intel CPUs, they still are searching for a graphics card that is open enough to receive the FSF Respect Your Freedom certification." Update: 02/08 18:44 GMT by T : See also Linux hacker and IBM employee Stewart Smith's talk from the just-completed linux.conf.au on, in which he walks through "all of the firmware components and what they do, including the boot sequence from power being applied up to booting an operating system."
Update: 02/08 23:30 GMT by T :FSF Licensing & Compliance Manager Joshua Gay wrote to correct the headline originally appeared with this story, which said that the Talos workstation described was "FSF Certified"; that claim was an error I introduced. "The FSF has not certified this hardware," says Gay, "nor is it currently reviewing the hardware for FSF certification." Sorry for the confusion.
Open =/= Secure
I dont like how this is being used interchangeably here
you are all cows. Cows say Mooo. Mooo!
I can't imagine any rational law abiding citizen would spend this kind of money for no reason. I though open source was supposed to be cheap? The only people that would pay this kind of premium are people that have something they want to keep hidden. Or enemies of the United States.
if you want an open enough GPU card. It won't have much for GPU performance but it could be all open. Oh and don't forget to only use the fully open FPGA tools or kittens may die.
Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
Does it run Microsoft Windows?
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Does the purchase price come with some sort of bond or insurance if the system doesnt live up to the claim?
Certainly it can be done, but I'm not sure why one would want to do that. Did they mean 128GB? Or 32GB?
I've clicked through the links and I can't find anything that actually says how much RAM you get on this system.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
But ... but ... didn't the Empire outlaw Talos worship?
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Can it run Crysis at a reasonable framerate?
Making some observations from recent events, I've noticed:
1) You can order a computer, and the delivery can be intercepted so that spyware can be installed. Especially laptops, which are difficult for the end user to peek inside.
2) The Intel management engine is essentially an attached microprocessor with complete and total remote control of your system, including access to all peripherals, the network, the disk data, and the ability to wake up and run while the main computer is off.
3) The Intel built-in programmable number generator was built in a way to be unverifiable. Essentially, the system reads physically generated random data and puts it through a hashing algorithm before giving it to the user. If the random number generator section is damaged (say, if someone modified the chip mask films before fab), you will get much less than the advertized 256-bits of entropy, but because the data is hashed there is no way to tell.
Buy American!
Probably not.
There is firmware in the BMC - the hard drives, several other places - are they making the claim that ALL of these have open source code? Open microcode?
I didn't see any mention of Linux Bios.. hate getting information via videos.. You really don't need a separate processor to start up the main one - and it provides huge security holes when you do.
I've wondered what systems the spooks use for their security - there are hints about power 8 - not sure.
Being located in europe, devices built in the NSA^WUSA are no longer to be considered safe (for those who remember Cisco ...).
If all goes well, next year we'll have a truel libre CPU - based on the RISC-V open source ISA. The world needs a hardware equivalent of Linux, and a proprietary chip like IBM's Power ain't it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC-V
http://riscv.org
Truly open source means the whole circuitry.
You really ARE an idiot.
I still have Mac Mini (Freescale PowerPC G4) which I used for Debian development for half a decade, and which is now idle with a FreeBSD 10.2 install at present, and while I went to Intel and AMD for my last two systems, I'd certainly welcome a return to an affordable POWER system. I've been pretty disappointed in the state of open hardware for a good while.
I was looking at the offer for an OpenPOWER system from Tyan (http://www.tyan.com/campaign/openpower/) but I'd prefer a workstation rather than a rackmount unit. If it can run FreeBSD, then even better. The only rub is the graphics support; if I can stick in an AMD board and have it work with OpenFirmware and the current open drivers, I'd be quite happy.
(Disclosure: IBMer working in Power Systems, opinions my own)
For the BMC, it appears that they're looking to use OpenBMC, a project started by Facebook and now being continued by IBM.
They're also going to use the OpenPOWER firmware stack - Hostboot for system initialisation, Skiboot for runtime firmware/BIOS and the OCC firmware for on-chip thermal and power management. All of this is Apache-licensed.
POWER8 processors do require an external CPU to boot them - either an IBM Flexible Service Processor or a third-party BMC. This is the case with all current Power Architecture server chips, though not with Power embedded (Book 3E) chips. Booting a POWER8 chip is a bit more complex than comparable Intel CPUs in this regard, but as far as I'm aware it's primarily a design choice to put the initialisation complexity in firmware rather than hardware.
Can't comment about the other components of the system - I imagine it'd be fairly challenging to find a hard drive with open source firmware, but I wish them luck... FSF will still certify them as Respects Your Freedom nonetheless, I imagine. I'm still quite excited by this machine, as POWER8 is definitely the best choice for a high-performance libre system.
ThinkPenguin's been working on cheap general user-oriented laptops and desktops for years. The problem is it's not feasible to free X86 completely (despite claims by certain people to the contrary and unfortunately this one person has single handedly taken advantage of the community's strong desire for a 100% free modern and more secure laptop.. and whose claims are getting more and more ridicules... note: the person/company I'm referring is NOT FSF endorsed because he is a fraud) and to do a truly 100% free system is nearly impossible. The RYF hardware gets closer- but isn't technically 100% free either in most cases. There may be some exceptions in relation to particular items like wifi adapters, but larger items like laptops are not truly 100% free (you have hard disk firmware and similar in the current RYF laptops).
There was a talk at FOSDEM (ie TP sponsored) abut an upcoming laptop which has been in development for a while that will be better than what we have with X86 currently (including the best several year old libreboot laptops) and more easily upgradable with long term prospects (ie new CPUs, more memory, better graphics). The design is meant to be cost effective to produce and adapt cheaply to changes in part availability / manufacturing. The first prototype is finished or nearly so (you can find some videos on YouTube).
Hopefully in the coming months we'll actually be able to put in pre-orders as part of a kickstarter or similar campaign to actually get them manufactured.
Specs:
15.6" 1336x768 screen
Full keyboard
2GB memory
ARM CPU (note: AllWinner is cooperating in releasing code despite some criticisms in the Free Software community about violations and the like)
The CPU is dual core and despite being older and lower end you can actually do things like utilize virtual machines. It's actually pretty good for typical computing applications like word processing, email, web browsing, etc. It's not nearly as bad or impractical as it might seem and there will be better/faster options available as time progresses (presuming people get behind the project). These systems are going to be priced closer to what the average person can afford too. It's estimated to cost between $250-500 USD. That's not too bad for something unique and is price competitive to the garbage sold at stores like Walmart.
hah, thanks for the links. i'd heard the term "skiboot" at work in the context of IBM/POWER systems and was wondering what the heck people were talking about...
I really struggle to identify who would actually be interested in such a thing. Oh, I'm sure such people exist but I'll bet it's a tiny market. This machine is expensive for what you get and despite oceans of argy-bargy, no one has ever made a compelling case for open hardware. Not one that made much sense to me.
Does this system:
1). Have an attractive price point?
2). Will it be one of a long line of compatible systems, or is this a one-off experiment?
3). Are the features compelling (typical speeds and feeds stuff)?
4). What does the "open" actually buy you? Because the purity and transparency angles are not especially compelling to me;
5). For all the argy-bargy, what was the last/worst hardware exploit you heard of? And would this do anything about those? The USB BIOS injection bug? The UEFI resident malware?
My concern is that this system caters to those who like SELinux. And the old NeXT systems. And the Amiga. And BeOS.
If so then this is an experimental system with a short lifespan. And I don't have time for that nonsense.
I'm waiting for the Talos IV. I hear it'll be killer.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it! --Longbottle
That's a bit more than what i need for a desktop, but it looks very promising for a server. I'm holding off to see what comes of the A1100, as it's more within my price-range.
"Libreboot has introduced an open BIOS, but it is not available for newer systems featuring the Intel ME or AMD PSP management features."
Which are government mandated backdoors.
Intel's even has a on chipset VNC server.
Can always be remotely be re-enabled.
The goal is to make sure men can never get rid of the global feminist police state.
They want to make sure Girls are Never Brides
(no child marraige).
>In the United States, as late as the 1880s most States set the minimum age at 10-12, (in Delaware it was 7 in 1895).[8] Inspired by the "Maiden Tribute" female reformers in the US initiated their own campaign[9] which petitioned legislators to raise the legal minimum age to at least 16, with the ultimate goal to raise the age to 18. The campaign was successful, with almost all states raising the minimum age to 16-18 years by 1920.
>Also: see: Deuteronomy chapter 22 verses 28-29, hebrew allows men to rape girl children and keep them: thus man + girl is obviously fine. Feminists are commanded to be killed as anyone enticing others to follow another ruler/judge/god is to be killed as-per Deuteronomy. It is wonderful when this happens from time to time: celebrate)
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/01/20/171226/open-source-gpu-used-for-research