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Raspberry Pi's Raspbian OS Finally Ships With Open-Source OpenGL Support (phoronix.com)

Posted by timothy on from the heartening-news dept.

An anonymous reader writes: With this month's Raspbian OS update, the Debian-based operating system for the Raspberry Pi ships experimental OpenGL driver support. This driver has been developed over the past two years by a former Intel developer with having a completely open and mainline DRM kernel driver and Mesa Gallium driver to open up the Pi as a replacement to the proprietary GPU driver.

59 comments

  1. Can we please have OpenBSD support now? by emil · · Score: 2

    Dear Theo, the Pi allows easier and cheaper access to SLC storage, and there is less fiddling with internal/external boot devices. It's an older instruction set on a slower cpu, but everybody has one. Pretty please would you port?

    1. Re:Can we please have OpenBSD support now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OpenBSD is dead. Get a properly GNU licensed kernel instead.

      Linux is dead too, it just had much more corporate-driven momentum so it will take a bit to finally fizzle out :)

    2. Re:Can we please have OpenBSD support now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Theo is on OSNews website all the time, you should ask him there

    3. Re:Can we please have OpenBSD support now? by buchner.johannes · · Score: 0

      NetBSD just added Raspberry Pi 2 support
      https://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/...
      https://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/...

      Why do you want OpenBSD? Their video support is crap. If you want a router, there are better devices which do run OpenBSD.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    4. Re:Can we please have OpenBSD support now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux is dead too, it just had much more corporate-driven momentum so it will take a bit to finally fizzle out :)

      Give Lennart some time. He's working as hard as he can.

    5. Re:Can we please have OpenBSD support now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why do you want netbsd? their video support is crap! try to find a WM and desktop system that actually works and that you can stand. There aren't any.

      and the NetBSD "board" support for RPi is ... missing.

      it may be faster, being compiled for ARMv7, but it's hard to tell because it doesn't do anything that matters.

      so I gave up on NetBSD and went back to Raspbian.

    6. Re:Can we please have OpenBSD support now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably because NetBSD on Pi 2 is prone to crashing (at least for me, openecl and raspbian works fine) and there is (or at least was) no pre-compiled packages for the architecture, which meant cross compiling, or consuming way too much coffee.

  2. Does Raspbian OS use systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Does this Raspbian OS use systemd?

    I was a Debian user for many, many years, up until Debian forced systemd on me. One day I updated my workstation, and systemd was installed. I proceeded to reboot, and for the first time in many years my Debian system did not boot properly, all thanks to some problem with systemd. This was a Debian installation I'd updated every week for years without any major problems at all, and the first thing systemd did once installed was fuck up.

    I thought that maybe it was going to be a very rare case. After all, I'd had many years of success using Debian with next to no problems. But then I encountered similar problems with systemd after subsequent updates, not only on my main workstation, but in VMs and on other systems, too.

    I'm not one to waste my time with shitty software. That's why I used Debian in the first place: it was damn good. So I've ditched Debian, and now I use FreeBSD. In fact, I wish I had ditched Debian sooner. FreeBSD provides a traditional Debian-like experience, but the quality is much higher, and the community is top-notch.

    If Raspbian OS uses systemd, I could never consider using it. I don't care if it's not even a very powerful computer to begin with. I will never use systemd again.

    1. Re:Does Raspbian OS use systemd? by preflex · · Score: 2

      Does this Raspbian OS use systemd?

      Of course it does, it's a fork of Debian Jessie, but that's not what this is about.

      Hate systemd? This is still good news. This means that the driver is probably in good enough shape for you to build it on Gentoo.

    2. Re:Does Raspbian OS use systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's because we have heard all the complaining about systemd before, indeed all there has been is complaining followed by threats to run away from the problem...that of course nobody cared about. If there genuinelly was a significant concern there would be people doing something about it instead of just whining. When systemd comes to FreeBSD there will be more whining about it but still these people won't contribute to fixing the problem.

      Do you not think it is a concern that the free software community is so easily rolled? If you can put up with a few hateful emails you can do whatever the hell you want, people will complain but they won't actively work against you. Did anybody maintain the pre-systemd distributions and software? No, of course not.

    3. Re:Does Raspbian OS use systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Raspbian is a rebuild of Debian so it naturally uses systemd. However, it's pretty easy to remove systemd and replace it with sysV init. In fact, I did just that when I installed Raspbian Jessie on my Pi last week. Replacing the init software took all of about two minutes.

    4. Re:Does Raspbian OS use systemd? by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      Raspbian is a Debian based distribution for the Raspberry Pi computer board. It's basically Debian's Arm variant with specific changes for the Pi. That means it has systemd. Their is also a RiscOS variant for the Pi so you could use that if you like.

    5. Re:Does Raspbian OS use systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Stop whining man. *Do* something about it. There are many avenues:

        - support a free Linux distro which isn't completely on the bandwagon (gentoo comes to mind
        - use Debian without systemd (yes, it's quite feasible). Work on the kinks. Help others doing the same (that's the avenue I chose)
        - give money to Devuan
        - Linux? There's BSD, there's Hurd. They are in need of devels & power users.

      The only things which *don't help* are whining and mudslinging. Unless you're here for the trollz. In that case... go away.

    6. Re:Does Raspbian OS use systemd? by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Stop whining man. *Do* something about it.

      I suspect that SystemD whiners do not even want to do anything about it. They just want something to whine about. It feels relaxing and is a great way to release some general stress.

      It's like a lady watching Bold & Beautiful on the television. She yaks how rubbish the series is and how lame the characters are. But dare you to change the channel...

  3. What is the significance? by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    Why is OpenGL support important to me as a user?
    I clearly all the stuff I was doing was working before. So evidently I didn't need this.
    I don't know what this new thing means to me. please explain.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:What is the significance? by i.r.id10t · · Score: 2

      Classic Quake on a big screen tv? Yes please!

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    2. Re: What is the significance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You already had opengl support, it was just dependant on proprietary drivers

    3. Re:What is the significance? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why is OpenGL support important to me as a user?

      OpenGL is used for much more than 3D, it's used for desktop compositing.

      I clearly all the stuff I was doing was working before. So evidently I didn't need this.

      it's an open source driver instead of a closed source driver. if you think close source is fine, continue enjoying the Microsoft Windows spy network!

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    4. Re: What is the significance? by preflex · · Score: 3, Informative

      It had GLES support with no X11 driver, not big-boy OpenGL. This should enable stuff like Blender, hardware compositing in KWin, or running Kodi in a window (rather than full-screen all the time).

      This is a huge step forward for the capabilities of the Raspberry Pi.

    5. Re:What is the significance? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > ~~I~~ Clearly all the stuff I was doing was working before.

      FTFY. Except maybe a grammar checker. :-)

      Anyways, enough being snarky.

      Maybe _you_ don't "need" high performance 3D graphics nor anything above say 2D 1024x800 @ 32-bpp resolution either, but as a graphics programmer / game dev I want to be able to target SoC devices without having to worry about a crappy OpenGL drivers that don't expose features or have horrible performance.

      It basically means that game / graphic devs targeting cross-platforms such as OSX or Linux have one less barrier of entry to worry about. We can can get get back to writing shaders that just work across a multitude of devices without having to cut/hack out tons of (graphics) features because they are not supported by the driver, or the performance is abysmal.

      The importance of a high performance OpenGL ES 2.x+ implementation can not be underestimated. It _enables_ a ton cool graphics features and games.

    6. Re:What is the significance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Come on, cut him some slack, it looks like a typical edit fail, or maybe he's a dyslexic

      Stuff like that happens to me all the time. Can't help it, frequently don't catch it until it's too late - bugs me every time. No need to rub it in.

    7. Re:What is the significance? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      That's why I used the smiley :-) to know that I wasn't being TOO serious.

      But yeah, it sucks when I don't catch bad grammar either. :-/

      If only there was technology to edit a post after submitting it ... *cough*

    8. Re:What is the significance? by amorsen · · Score: 1

      it's an open source driver instead of a closed source driver. if you think close source is fine, continue enjoying the Microsoft Windows spy network!

      The GPU firmware does all the heavy lifting. Making the driver itself open source is a bit pointless when all it does is call the firmware routines which are loaded from a blob.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    9. Re:What is the significance? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      The driver has the entire OpenGL implementation in it and directlly talks to the hardware. What is it you think the "firmware" is doing?

    10. Re:What is the significance? by virtual_mps · · Score: 1

      Note: it looks like ass

    11. Re:What is the significance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The significance is that because it talks to the hardware it breaks lots of things that do use the firmware properly !

    12. Re:What is the significance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >I clearly all the stuff
      I think you accidentally the Internets again.

    13. Re:What is the significance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This just in: not all features are needed by all users. Details at 11.

    14. Re:What is the significance? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      For example?

    15. Re:What is the significance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonconformist detected! Downmod invoked.

      The FUD machine does not have to justify itself or provide proof. Just get on the bandwagon and hate Microsoft, sheep.

    16. Re: What is the significance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It had GLES support with no X11 driver, not big-boy OpenGL. This should enable stuff like Blender, hardware compositing in KWin, or running Kodi in a window (rather than full-screen all the time).

      This is a huge step forward for the capabilities of the Raspberry Pi.

      Blender's still not going to be fun, at least on the v1 (I don't have a v2 yet).

      Using GL-accelerated Qt applications through the proprietary driver, with the eglfs backend rather than the X11 one, is certainly better than unaccelerated X11. It's not better enough to get 3D modelling into the range of useful applications - unless the new VC4 driver is somehow significantly faster than the proprietary one, of course.

      Just composited desktops should be nice though.

    17. Re:What is the significance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're thinking about the previously 'open-sourced' part of the original Broadcom driver, which was indeed a useless shim.

      The new VC4 driver is written from scratch and doesn't use the giant firmware blob at all.

      That doesn't cause any problems (as the other AC below suggests), because the only "thing that does use the firmware properly" is the useless shim in question which VC4 replaces.

    18. Re:What is the significance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only such thing is the previous Broadcom shim 'driver'. Seeing as VC4 replaces that, it's a complete non-issue.

      Aside, there's no way to properly use a 2MB blob of so-called 'firmware' that contains a GLES state tracker...

  4. WTF? by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

    This driver has been developed over the past two years by a former Intel developer with having a completely open and mainline DRM kernel driver and Mesa Gallium driver

    Yo dawg, I herd u like "driver", so I put it as every third word whether it makes sense or not.

    Hint: it doesn't.

    Did you say thanks to grandpa for buying you a tech site, timothy?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Harsh. But Fair.

    2. Re:WTF? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      So, I'm thrilled that the open source GL driver is finally deemed useable - how's its stability? I've had quite a bit of experience with legacy OpenGL code that "works fine" on NVIDIA drivers having not only rendering problems, but actual crash in the driver problems with Mesa.

    3. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a problem with the "Intel developer with having" part.

    4. Re:WTF? by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

      I also am with having a problem with it.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  5. Can it boot without a blob yet? by jonwil · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Can the Raspberry Pi boot without a binary blob or is that still something they have yet to replace?

    I seem to remember one of the big problems for FOSS on the Raspberry Pi was that the hardware video decoder was only unlocked and usable if you paid extra for a special bootloader (which covered the patent license for MPEG etc), I dont know what the status of that is now.

    1. Re:Can it boot without a blob yet? by Predius · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The blob still rules the roost. The blob is what fires up the GPU, which then in turn launches the ARM support CPU(s) in the SoC.

    2. Re:Can it boot without a blob yet? by bstrobl · · Score: 5, Informative

      An open source blob would mean losing all access to hardware accelerated codecs as well as certain specific features in the power management area. This means it currently has only a very low development priority as most users will not want to give up the additional functionality. https://www.raspberrypi.org/fo...

    3. Re:Can it boot without a blob yet? by amorsen · · Score: 2

      Most of the video support patents are paid for when you buy the Pi, both encoding and decoding. MPEG-2 is excluded, but you can do that in software on a Raspberry Pi 2 at least. For some reason patent licensing for H.264 is dirt cheap compared to MPEG-2.

      The fun will really start again with H.265 though, since it is significantly more expensive than H.264 and has at least two separate patent pools you need to license.

      None of that has any bearing on the open source bits though. The firmware is in control of everything, and no matter which options you pay for it stays equally closed.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    4. Re:Can it boot without a blob yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why would anyone use h.265 when vp9 exists?

    5. Re:Can it boot without a blob yet? by citizenr · · Score: 2

      can your modern i-7 laptop boot without intel management blobs?

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    6. Re:Can it boot without a blob yet? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure it can. EFI/BIOS is relatively 'known' and open source implementations are available. If you don't care about microinstruction fixes which get loaded later in boot (but I think they are not considered binary blobs), you could probably get a working computer with a little bit of effort.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    7. Re:Can it boot without a blob yet? by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      libreboot has a FAQ and the outlook isn't good for any modern Intel/AMD system if you're as paranoid as RMS.

  6. Why not Minix? by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Minix is a far smaller kernel, currently being ported to the Beaglebone. So why not port THAT to Raspberry Pi instead, and then put OpenBSD's PF and whatever else one wants on top of that?

    1. Re:Why not Minix? by virtual_mps · · Score: 1

      Why on earth would you do that? These devices are not exactly memory starved.

  7. android on pi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So this means we can finally get android on the pi?

  8. why pi? by virtual_mps · · Score: 2

    If you're looking for open why on earth are you looking at the raspberry pi instead of the beaglebone? Graphics are basically the only advantage the pi has over the bone, so if you take that away you've basically got a bone with fewer I/O options and a lousy network interface. I don't get it.

    1. Re:why pi? by Archibald+Buttle · · Score: 1

      Beaglebone is also over twice the price of a Raspberry Pi.

    2. Re:why pi? by virtual_mps · · Score: 1

      The only pi the beaglebone is over twice the price of is the zero, which I don't consider in the same class. (No network or storage.) Unless you're seeing pi 1 or 2s for $25? (The beaglebone black is $50.)