Slashdot Mirror
Fresh Wayland Experiences With Weston, GNOME, KDE and Enlightenment
jones_supa writes: Software developer Pavlo Rudyi has written a blog post about his experiences with the various desktop environments currently supporting Wayland. The results are not a big surprise, but nevertheless it is great to see the continued interest in Wayland and the ongoing work by many different parties in ensuring that Wayland will eventually be able to dominate the Linux desktop. To summarize, Pavlo found Weston to be "good," GNOME is "perfect," KDE is "bad," and Enlightenment is "good." He also created a video from his testing. Have you done any testing? What's your experience?
RebeccaBlackOS --- Seriously?
Hepp, will have to try GNOME then. It's been a couple of years now since I used it, but I guess most of the early problems with GNOME 3 has been ironed out by now. Which GNU/Linux distro has the best GNOME distribution nowadays? I know it used to be Ubuntu but I think they are focusing more on Unity now, would like to know which one to use to get as good GNOME experience as possible.
...is perfect? Did he not upgrade? Gnome used to be perfect. Now, not so much.
But KDE5 crashes all the time with X11, too, so it's not Wayland's fault. How can KDE5 regress so hard? KDE4 was stable. Did they delete all the code and start over? ttt
Stopped reading right there...
Poster just means that Wayland support is perfect, I think. In any case, GNOME 3 has gotten better. I tweak it, and yes I wish that wasn't needed for pleasant use, but once tweaks are added GNOME works reasonably well.
- David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
Ubuntua BETA **BRICKED** my i820 motherboard!!!
Slashdot is pathetic.
If an OS can brick a motherboard - then there is something wrong with the design of the motherboard.
X11 has not aged well, as it was extended in a way which violated it original design idea. Therefore, I can understand that someone tries to make a new composition manager and protocol. However, it seems to be a large effort to get all the stuff running on this new graphics stack. Still cannot wait that it works.
Which is why all linux init systems can brick those motherboards and its not at all just systemD that is affected. Yep, totally the motherboards fault.
I read the article a few hours ago on my way to work, and I don't recall it being mentioned that the KDE port to Wayland is very much a work in progress, but this is slashdot and no one readons TFA's anyway so it's worth mentioning here. Of course the KDE port to Wayland isn't going to be very good as in a work-in-progress and more of a technology preview at this point.
I've been meaning to try Gnome 3 under Wayland... This blog post makes me even more interested. Although I should probably try Gnome 3 under X11 first so I have a basis for comparison.
As long as the upcoming Ubuntu Gnome versions still have gnome-flashback (formerly gnome-fallback) and compiz available in the repos. If not I'll stick with 14.04, or switch to some other distribution. I've heard Compiz was not going to be supported in Wayland. I need it for the apps I use. They can take Unity and shove it, it sucks more than the presidential candidates.
You could've put the whole thing in the summary and save everyone the pain of reading broken English.
Environment A: Perfect
Environment B: Bad
Environment C: Good
TFA doesn't go much deeper than that.
Brick = break; make unusable even when a working operating system is then installed on it. Incompatible = usually a driver problem (unless it won't run on all motherboards) defective OS = the OS won't run even though the drivers work fine.
If an OS can "break" the hardware, then your hardware is defective or badly designed. I like linux, but whenever it came to bleeding edge hardware there was always something that did not work.... which is why my desktop/laptop operating system runs "OS X" (though I have Fedora Linux installed in a VM for a copy of Oracle RDMS). I am and will be continue to be interested in having Linux (multiple distributions) a reasonable option, and Ubuntu generally gets points for being a relatively friendly distribution (Fedora is sort of bleeding edge).
Yes, it is totally the motherboard's fault.
I do really hope that wayland keeps on improving and adding new features for the purpose of replacing the xorg
But how can one get the html5-experience? My former boss was campaigning for something called html5-experience that he said would replace all the native programs we poor programmers were doing. Too bad our company went under before the customers were ready to suck the experience we were selling them. Who would not want to wait for progress balls to complete after each mouse click and why don't people like the random "this application is not responding, please press ok to close it" behavior?
If an OS can brick a motherboard - then there is something wrong with the design of the motherboard.
OK, so blame the victim?
Looks like zoolander vs linux.
I'm assuming he's meaning the recent issue of some Linux distros mounting UEFI as a device in write mode, allowing the end user to accidentally delete or change critical values directly in the motherboard's firmware, potentially rendering the system unbootable in any way. Yep, Linux mounting the firmware is the hardware's fault. Maybe motherboard manufacturer's should block Linux from modifying the firmware? That would go over well.
Considering that it only happens with one brand, and only a few models, then I think it's reasonably fair to place the majority of the culpability on the vendor, yes. If you hurt yourself with a tool, don't blame the toolmaker for providing the tool. Well, that and you'd have to be pretty damned stupid to run the command without knowing what it does.
"This sharp stick lets me poke myself in the eye! Burn the forest!!!" And a bunch of people join in and burn the forest down because some idiot stuck a stick, that they sharpened themselves, in their eye. This is why we can't have nice things.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
You can do the same from DOS and on Windows. But let's just claim it's a linux only issue.
You can do the same with init=/bin/sh. But let's just claim it's a systemd issue.
What would you call firmware that can't handle a OS modifying variables explicitly intended to be modified by the OS, using the firmware provided interfaces specifically for that? Other than "broken garbage"?
I got into the Linux as a desktop thing in around 1997. I got out in 2007 when Apple made BSD as a desktop work.
I do agree that Linux as a desktop has gotten better since then, especially on laptops. I have recently used systems based on Mint and Ubuntu.
I still think Linux that while Linux is making progress, it's not exactly catching up.
In my view the fundamental problem with Linux on the desktop is that the common kernel and GNU environment do not provide enough functionality. This means that KDE, Gnome, etc. and X/Wayland have to implement a lot of things that should be basic OS.
Linux lives in the days of Windows 3, when the OS (DOS) provided very little and the GUI system had to provide a lot of the functions that should have been in the OS. Windows is hampered by that model to this day but not by the extent Linux is.
RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
Who gives a crap that these desktops don't work with "Wayland"? Just run them under X11. Then you get network transparency and the functionality of tens of thousands of other GUI applications that have been written over the last 30 years.
I find the implication by the reviews viewpoint that the window managers/Desktop Evironments are good or bad based on on how well they work on a new underlying display server that is clearly not yet fully baked. It seems to me that the correct viewpoint is that Wayland works or breaks the DE, not whether teh DE is good or not. After all the DE works perfectly on the LONG established X display server that it was designed to work on.
What does Wayland provide - not promise and fail to deliver - that Xorg doesn't already? I'm really not understanding what the need for Wayland is.
It seems to me that it is just a YetAnotherDisplayServer dreamed up by a bored programmer. This, in my mind, is very much like the MP3 player overpopulation that we had 5 or so years ago, when absolutely every programmer re-invented that wheel. That's not to say that they should not work on Wayland if they choose. But, I do seriously wonder why there is so much drive and advocacy in Wayland's favor when it doesn't seem to offer any benefit, at least not yet. The added fact that it lacks so many long established features and thoroughly breaks desktop environments has me scratching my head and wondering why it is garnering so much attention, when it is clearly not ready for use.
At the risk of starting a flame war, this is very much akin to the systemd debacle. A concerted and organized effort to force a newcomer into the position of defacto standard when the product is clearly not yet ready or is indeed counterproductive to the user. So, why is Wayland being pushed so hard and why are distros even considering it when it is so clearly not fully baked.
Dude, you really need Ubuntu 16.04. It's got systemd.
Shit's gonna get real when 16.04 drops! LOL.
I expect systemd to require Wayland within a couple of months. They'll flatly state that X is old and deprecated, cause... well... we said so. Learn the new way. Don't be old.
What is Wayland?
Tracy Johnson
Old fashioned text games hosted below:
http://empire.openmpe.com/
BT
Wayland is yet another display server intent on replacing X11 with newer better leaner code, that Linux distros seem willing to foist on users, despite the fact that it is half baked, missing rudimentary features, breaks desktop environments, and general sucks ass worse than pulse audio and systemd.
If things keep going as they have been recently, you'll be very familiar with hating Wayland and all its breakage within a years time as your disto will jam it down your throat and people will call you old and stupid for not embracing the new half baked future.
Even if the firmware got borked, it can be reinstalled. It isn't "bricked"