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NVIDIA Begins Providing Open-Source 3D Driver Support For GeForce GTX 900 Series (phoronix.com)

An anonymous reader writes: In late 2014 NVIDIA announced their GPUs would begin requiring signed firmware images before the open-source driver could enable hardware acceleration. That led the Nouveau developers to call the latest GPUs "very open-source unfriendly", but that criticism can now be laid to rest as NVIDIA has finally released the signed firmware and basic open-source driver code. The open-source driver can now move on with its open-source 3D enablement for Maxwell GPUs and the NVIDIA developer is hoping it will be ready for the next kernel cycle (Linux 4.6).

63 comments

  1. still a binary blob then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    soo...
    we are still waiting for the source-code for the binary blobs, and keys required to sign our own firmware?

    1. Re:still a binary blob then? by BitZtream · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      And if they got rid of all binary blobs (which this one comes on the card by default and they're releasing UPDATED firmware as binary blobs) then you'd just start whining and bitching about the hardware not being open because you can't make it in your basement.

      Seriously, STFU.

      Assholes like you are why companies look at OS requests and blow them off, because they could do everything you wanted for you, including blowing you on command, and you'd still be just another prick bitching that it wasn't open enough.

      The FIRMWARE isn't open, and fuck you if you don't like it. Don't use nVidia cards, problem solved, you can go use some other card that doesn't have closed source firmware ... whats that? THERE ISN'T ANY CARD THAT DOESN'T HAVE PROPRIETARY TECHNOLOGY IN IT THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO JUST GIVE AWAY TO THE WORLD?

      My mind was just blown ... I can't imagine what these manufactures are thinking ... they are so stupid and you're so brilliant ... its like you're the one running the multibillion dollar business with every thing you do given away as public domain and they are some dude in their moms basement hiding the GPU goodness from you ... right?

      Again, just STFU asshole. nVidia isn't going to give you their special source so you can pretend that you can do something with it while you sit around and bitch that no one else is doing something with it to provide you more free shit. Silly statements like yours come from people who aren't about software freedom, you're about not paying for the work others have done. You're just another leech that uses OSS as a battle cry.

      People like you suck ass, and not for pleasure.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    2. Re: still a binary blob then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You had me at 'blowing me on command'....

    3. Re:still a binary blob then? by JackieBrown · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hate what you wrote because I love open-source but I have seen all these complaints before.

      Company doesn't open source and they are the devil
      Company partially open sources and they are the devil for not opening it all
      Company completely open sources and then we hear that they are just trying to get free labor and they are still the devil.

    4. Re:still a binary blob then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      THERE ISN'T ANY CARD THAT DOESN'T HAVE PROPRIETARY TECHNOLOGY IN IT THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO JUST GIVE AWAY TO THE WORLD?

      Um, apart from AMD GCN which has proprietary technology in it and yet they still document the card's registers and ISA.

      In fact, Intel manage this on their processors, which is a way more competitive and secret world than GPUs.

      The reason nVidia hide shit is because their shit smells bad and they don't want that to get out. It has nothing to do with "secret sauce".

      Documenting your products' external interfaces properly isn't the same as giving away your "secrets". All it does is show how shitty your external interfaces are.

      CAPTCHA: imbecile

    5. Re:still a binary blob then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To what company does the last statement apply? I can't think of a single instance. Any instance that comes to mind refers to a partially open source situation, not a completely open source situation.

    6. Re:still a binary blob then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is already working open source firmware for maxwell devices. So basically, your entire premise is wrong. Nvidia forced signed firmware on the hardware level with their second generation maxwell devices.

    7. Re:still a binary blob then? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      To what company does the last statement apply? I can't think of a single instance. Any instance that comes to mind refers to a partially open source situation, not a completely open source situation.

      Pretty much every time you see someone complaining about firmware. It doesn't run on the CPU, it could just as well have been read from an EEPROM chip but for cost reasons they want the driver to send the blob during initialization instead. Personally I never understood the vile difference between loading a proprietary blob to a chip once with flashing and sending it in each time on boot, but apparently RMS and friends go mental over the latter. Also, often the firmware is blocking things that could harm the hardware, make it run out of FCC specifications and so on that would hurt the manufacturer through warranty returns or certification problems. I'm perfectly satisfied with open source drivers, but that's far from everyone.

      --
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    8. Re:still a binary blob then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is because companies are the devil

    9. Re:still a binary blob then? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      You're an ass.

      --
      Good-bye
    10. Re:still a binary blob then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, apart from AMD GCN which has proprietary technology in it and yet they still document the card's registers and ISA.

      So forget nVidia and focus on AMD then. Stop supporting the company that you consider "unfriendly".

      AMD is there saying "here's what you asked for, now it's time to do your part" and the open source community is just bitching about nVidia instead.

      The reason nVidia hide shit is because their shit smells bad and they don't want that to get out. It has nothing to do with "secret sauce".

      So don't worry about them then.

    11. Re:still a binary blob then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Personally I never understood the vile difference between loading a proprietary blob to a chip once with flashing and sending it in each time on boot, but apparently RMS and friends go mental over the latter.

      The most different thing is that when they can send it every time on boot, they can send a different one on boot and spy on me (and not on others - so it won't be noticed so easily). NSA did it before. If it's in ROM? Good luck with that.

      Also, I'm not their beta tester. How about fixing the bugs *before* selling the device? Having only ROM incentivizes them to do that.

      That's the reasons I overwhelmingly prefer ROM (and also set flash BIOS security header to read-only for the computer).

    12. Re:still a binary blob then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, shut the fuck up you self-righteous, small dick, wimpy little chinkoid bitch.

    13. Re:still a binary blob then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about fixing the bugs *before* selling the device? Having only ROM incentivizes them to do that.

      Not really, ensuring it is bug free is very expensive. Just think how many different combinations of hardware and software their cards can be used with, and just how they would go about testing them all. If they did that their costs would skyrocket, and consequently their cards would be a lot more expensive, which means fewer people would buy them, so they would have to increase the price even further to make up for lost sales just to recoup the development costs.

      Who really wants that? A few maybe, but most of their customers wouldn't want to make that financial trade-off.

  2. Basic driver code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    int main() { printf("Hello World\n"); return 0;}

    1. Re:Basic driver code by slashdice · · Score: 1

      10 print hello
      20 end

      --
      Copyright (c) 1990 - 2014 Dice. All rights reserved. Use of this comment is subject to certain Terms and Conditions.
    2. Re:Basic driver code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      package test;

      public class NvidiaDriver {

          private String paula = "Brillant";

          public String getPaula() {
              return paula;
          }
      }

  3. New drivers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NVIDIA begins providing open-source defective drivers

  4. Re:more end-user friendly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sorry, but what does piracy have to do with driver support?

  5. laid to rest? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    requiring signed firmware is still open source unfriendly! if the firmware can be changed, we want an open source version of that too! we also want to be able to run our own code on it. signed firmware is a hostile statement saying that you don't want anyone else to be able to write firmware for this card.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:laid to rest? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we also want to be able to run our own code on it. signed firmware is a hostile statement saying that you don't want anyone else to be able to write firmware for this card.

      How many are "we"?
      It isn't uncommon for those who buy large enough quantities to be able to negotiate a deal like the one you are requesting.
      I don't know how many units would be required but if you contact NVIDIA and say that you would be willing to buy 10k units then they might very well be willing to manufacture a batch with a specific key for you and with the firmware source as long as you sign an NDA.
      How do you think more than one country can use Windows software for their army? They have the source so that they can verify that there aren't backdoors. They could get that because they offered to pay enough for the license and agreed to sign an NDA.

      But I guess you don't want it bad enough to actually organize that many people.

    2. Re:laid to rest? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Signed firmware isn't bad since generally firmware can't be changed. Firmware doesn't need to be signed but Nvidia is probably doing this for security reasons.

    3. Re: laid to rest? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think part of the rationale is that it's possible to program things, IOs for example, in a way that leads to physical damage of the part (by sourcing excessive current, setting an excessive voltage, whatever). Requiring signed firmware prevents users from misprogramming the chip into a self-destructive mode.

      May not be open source friendly, but likely cuts way down on RMAs from "enthusiasts" who like to meddle with what they don't understand.

      Also, if the firmware were coded in a mask ROM, and thus really the HW... The user experience would be the same, no?

    4. Re:laid to rest? by Microlith · · Score: 1

      Signed firmware isn't bad since generally firmware can't be changed.

      Firmware is basically just another word for "software that runs on a peripheral processor." It can almost always be changed. Technically the Android install on your smartphone is "firmware" and the broken router software on most cheap routers is "firmware." Typically both can be replaced with 3rd party builds - unless the firmware is signed, in which case you're fucked if there's something wrong with it.

      The caveat with this, of course, is we have no way of knowing what is in this firmware.

      Firmware doesn't need to be signed but Nvidia is probably doing this for security reasons.

      That's typically the main reason one signs firmware. Unfortunately, when that signing is used by morons who abandon their products shortly after release, the greatest threat comes from the vendor, since they leave you open to vulnerabilities down the line.

      None of that necessarily applies to Nvidia GPUs, but I take particular interest in the implications of software/firmware signing and its impact on Free Software and user freedoms.

    5. Re:laid to rest? by plcurechax · · Score: 1

      [...] if the firmware can be changed, we want an open source version of that too! we also want to be able to run our own code on it. signed firmware is a hostile statement saying that you don't want anyone else to be able to write firmware for this card.

      The signed firmware is not intended to interfere with the consumer / user, in fact one of the key justifications is continuing to provide post-manufacture updates of the video card firmware to provide fixes and enhancements, while preventing counterfeiting where low-end cards are re-flashed with bogus firmware that factory overclock it and reports itself as a more capable higher-end (more expensive) model. Nvidia claims to have found unauthorized manufacturers / re-packagers selling such cards in Asia.

      Users / non-Nvidia developers do not have the necessary technical documentation to produce their own firmware, so there is no lost of functionality or flexibility. Their video cards designs, ASIC, and firmware are all proprietary design, with almost no technical documentation available to open source developers.

      I'm not aware of any cases of independent edited / patched binary firmware for video cards, since they all provide an API to adjust the clock frequencies via their host drivers. There is no need to adjust clock frequencies (i.e. end-user overclocking) via firmware.

    6. Re:laid to rest? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Users / non-Nvidia developers do not have the necessary technical documentation to produce their own firmware, so there is no lost of functionality or flexibility.

      This is just flat out wrong. Users already did just that, that is the reason nouveau has open source firmware code in the first place. They even have working firmware for the first generation maxwell cards, and it would have worked on the newer maxwell cards too, however nvidia started requiring signed firmware on the hardware level.

    7. Re:laid to rest? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      Users / non-Nvidia developers do not have the necessary technical documentation to produce their own firmware, so there is no lost of functionality or flexibility. Their video cards designs, ASIC, and firmware are all proprietary design, with almost no technical documentation available to open source developers.

      right... because reverse engineering isn't a thing and patents don't contain any information. what this does is prevent people from being able to experiment and succeed at writing their own firmwares.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    8. Re:laid to rest? by thejynxed · · Score: 1

      Except in the cases of some AMD and nvidia models where the power saving features weren't programmed with proper settings, which led to gray-screening. End users had to modify the card firmware to change the stepping values (or disable power saving entirely in some cases). There were also a few cases where overclocking the cards wasn't allowed via the drivers (softlocks), and that also required manual editing and flashing of firmware to get around.

      --
      @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
    9. Re:laid to rest? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just vulnerabilities, but it also gives untrustworthy code yet another place to hide where the owner of the system can't do anything about it. Even if they know about it.

      But yeah, $10 says in a decade or so we'll get story about how a security researcher found a code execution exploit on some unsupported nvidia card that enforces firmware signing and some malware package will have a field day.

    10. Re:laid to rest? by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      Can someone please explain something to me? Is there a point where having the firmware source allows me to infer design details about hardware that could be considered proprietary?

      If not, then lets get all the torches and pitchforks ready. Not to mention a big OSS to burn into nVidia's front lawn.

      If so, then people need to shut up about it. Companies (that actually develop stuff) need to protect their IP.

    11. Re:laid to rest? by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      requiring signed firmware is still open source unfriendly! if the firmware can be changed, we want an open source version of that too! we also want to be able to run our own code on it. signed firmware is a hostile statement saying that you don't want anyone else to be able to write firmware for this card.

      If you could load your own firmware you would probably be a little bit closer to being able to bypass HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection). Chances are Nvidia have signed a crap load of agreements that prevent them from letting you do that. They could probably invest a load of time in letting you run your own firmware, but have the windows driver scan for that and disable HDCP in this case but even this may prove awkward if it made it any easier for you find a way around the HDCP in older cards (I bet they took short cuts on making their older cards as secure as they should have)

      If HDCP on nivida was seen to be a weak link, then Netflix and the like would just bump old cards that were vulnerable off the list they approve for playback just to be sure (they probably have commercial agreements in place that would force them to do this). That would seriously hurt Nvidia as there are far far more people who care about watching netflix on their PC than there are who want to screw around with firmware or even drivers.

      The reality is that modern hardware is just too encumbered by things like this, and a few guys who want to tinker running their own firmware is just such a tiny part of the PC graphics market for Nvidia to really care that much. Other companies like Intel probably have architecture that makes it easier for them to open source more of it by having trust chains built in at more levels, it would not surprise me if Nvidia keep this to a minimum in order to make sure graphics performance is always as high as it can be.

      In light of this signed software is not a "hostile statement" it is just the embodiment of the Nvidia contractual obligations that custom firmware would have to be treated differently unless it was known to not pose a threat to protecting content owners content from digital piracy.

      It is worth remembering that the US entertainment industry generates a huge amount of revenue and employment for many people and without these protections Russia would shaft the shit out of that industry (hey, they produce nothing anyone cares about enough to pirate anyway so why would they care).

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    12. Re:laid to rest? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      requiring signed firmware is still open source unfriendly! if the firmware can be changed, we want an open source version of that too!

      If they don't want to give you what you want then support companies like AMD and Intel who do. I can see why there is a hostile attitude toward the open source community because it's all "i want, i want, i want!". But why should they provide that when the open source community has contributed stuff all back to the companies that do provide it? If open source is so good then AMD and Intel should have already (or at least very nearly) displaced nVidia anyway but the fact is they haven't.

      It just doesn't seem like a genuine request when AMD and Intel give you what you want but you can't provide what you claim to be able to. Why are the open source drivers for AMD and Intel so shitty in comparison to the proprietary ones? If open source is so good then they should be surpassing them by miles. If nVidia were to provide open source firmware and signing keys I doubt the situation would change one iota, the open source community would just find something else to complain about.

      So put up or shut up, support the companies that support you and give nVidia a beat-down...if you're genuine about it that is.

    13. Re:laid to rest? by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      The proprietary drivers (and firmware) include agreements that nvidia made with other companies, so they can't open source them. The problem here isn't even the existence of the firmware that was always loaded, it was that the normal workaround no longer worked, because nvidia was seeing scammers loading firmware for more advanced cards on less advanced cards- this didn't improve the cards, but it DID let them lie about what they were. I'm glad they are coming up with a solution for the open source stuff. But like anyone trying to game in Linux, I'm using the proprietary driver ball anyway :/

    14. Re:laid to rest? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Who is "we"?
      2. If your card breaks over "running your own code", will you not ask for NVIDIA warranty services?
      3. Why does your last sentence only apply to signed firmware and hardware developers? Judging by your ideology, shouldn't you be likewise angry about literally every other company in the world? Why do butchers not freely grant access to their butcher shops? Why do manufacturers refuse to grant public access to their factories? Why am I, as a civilian, not allowed to touch and experiment with the US' nuclear weapon facilities? Where does your freedom end and my privacy begin?

  6. heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Only software written by Stallman himself is good as everything else is a potential patent troll and/or vendor lock-in.

    1. Re:heh by malditaenvidia · · Score: 1

      Only software written by Stallman himself is good as everything else is a potential patent troll and/or vendor lock-in.

      Preach it, bro.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  7. Personally, I don't care. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For me FOSS is a tool, it's not something to get emotional or tied up about. I pay Nvidia money Nvidia pays people to develop drivers that work. I paid AMD/ATI money and they said "Ha, here's a shit ton of specs, write them yourself". Sorry. My job isn't to write display drivers, my job is to use the display drivers.

    I suppose I could try growing my own food too, but I (gladly) pay someone else to do it for me. Even if it is a bit 'closed source'.

    1. Re:Personally, I don't care. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But then you can't find out if that food contains allergens that just might kill you.

    2. Re:Personally, I don't care. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The open source community has said for years "Give us the specs so we can write our own drivers" and AMD is obliging. They are even moving their proprietary driver on top of the open source driver to share as much as possible with the OSS devs.

      Nvidia on the other hand releases a way for the devs to load their firmware and its big news, as opposed to AMD which helps the community actually develop a whole driver for their hardware.

    3. Re:Personally, I don't care. by Microlith · · Score: 1

      Well that's nice for you. Do you normally go into topics and say "I don't care about this, I don't see why anyone would?"

    4. Re: Personally, I don't care. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please don't sully the name ATI by so lumping it with AMD. ATI had its issues, but the biggest was being bought by AMD. AMD's management gets worse with each new CEO.

    5. Re:Personally, I don't care. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      When we see the same thing posted over and over for a decade, yes.

      I'm still buying Nvidia cards because they work. I do have some AMD paperweights if anyone wants them.

    6. Re:Personally, I don't care. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how good is that AMD driver?

      If I have $200 to spend I'm going to get the card that gives me the hardware and the drivers to work with it.

      pkg install nvidia-driver

      And it works great to boot.

    7. Re:Personally, I don't care. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I'm still buying Nvidia cards because they work. I do have some AMD paperweights if anyone wants them.

      They must all be old, right? If any of them are vaguely current, send me one (I'll pay shipping obviously) and I'll write an article about how the drivers are or aren't now

      --
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    8. Re:Personally, I don't care. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      OS: FreeBSD

      Card: Radeon 7870

      Meanwhile my old Nvidia cards are still cranking away with working drivers (with acceleration!)

      It's like I paid Nvidia money and they delivered a product I could use.

      Unless you're volunteering to read through AMD's spec sheets and writing me a driver for free.

      Additionally under Linux AMD has a 'bug' (Feature?) where you can't even use them under OpenCL without a device attached. There is a way to fake it with a resistor but if you're going to bank on headless GPU computing you'd think you'd make a driver that could work with no head.

    9. Re:Personally, I don't care. by TeknoHog · · Score: 2

      I paid AMD/ATI money and they said "Ha, here's a shit ton of specs, write them yourself". Sorry. My job isn't to write display drivers, my job is to use the display drivers.

      That's weird. I paid AMD and I got decent binary drivers. Not perfect, but decent for my purposes. I know they also provide some specs for open source devs, but so far I haven't found the open drivers good enough.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    10. Re:Personally, I don't care. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're one of the emotionally tied up assholes he was referring too. I'd love to lock you in a room with your idol, Stallman, and throw in a workbench with soldering irons, wire, and silicon wafers. You FOSS fags can bang out your own hardware and software, all OPEN, all FREE. Have a good time!

    11. Re:Personally, I don't care. by DrYak · · Score: 2

      Radeon 7870

      Those older radeon work very nicely with the opensource drivers (r600 driver on radeon kernel module), and AMD is devoting resource to this driver.

      The problem here isn't AMD's own effort. The problem is you're using an OS that is NOT officially support by AMD anyway.
      AMD do support Linux. They don't officially support BSDs (though there has been some announcements that they might eventually).

      Usually driver support for BSD comes in the form of mending Linux driver code into working with BSD kernel.

      Meanwhile my old Nvidia cards are still cranking away with working drivers (with acceleration!)
      It's like I paid Nvidia money and they delivered a product I could use.

      Unless you want to use them on a platform they don't support officially.
      Then it's basically "fuck you", no alternative offered.

      This might something as simple as wanting to have an up-to-date kernel on your Linux installation.
      (And which is something slowly disappearing with AMD, now that they are merging both their open- and closed- source stacks with AMDGPU kernel module and upcoming DAL).

      Unless you're volunteering to read through AMD's spec sheets and writing me a driver for free.

      Well at least the possibility exists. There are specs, there's even code which works for Linux as a reference.
      Whereas with Nvidia? It's just "go fuck yourself" (unless you're referring to Tegra).

      Additionally under Linux AMD has a 'bug' (Feature?) where you can't even use them under OpenCL without a {display} device attached. There is a way to fake it with a resistor but if you're going to bank on headless GPU computing you'd think you'd make a driver that could work with no head.

      And as you mention it: it's a bug. A defect in the older catalyst stack.
      It's a thing that is currently being worked on, and that should disappear once the stack has finished migrating to AMDGPU.
      (Reminder: Linux has a lot of work being done in the kernel for the concept of compute nodes/render nodes).

      Shall we speak about the support of Intel+Nvidia hybrid laptops ?

      --
      "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    12. Re:Personally, I don't care. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      The problem is you're using an OS that is NOT officially support by AMD anyway.

      So what you're saying is I should continue to pay money to the company that develops drivers for my OS? How is it that Nvidia can support as many OSes as they do for nearly the same cost as AMD?

      It's a thing that is currently being worked on, and that should disappear once the stack has finished migrating to AMDGPU.

      How long does it take to fix a bug this big?

      Whereas with Nvidia? It's just "go fuck yourself" (unless you're referring to Tegra).

      But I don't care Nvidia provides hardware that works with the software. Most people don't care. We don't have time to sit around and wait for someone to fix it eventually. I'm glad my job doesn't depend on that AMD "bug" being fixed. It's going on 3 years now(?). I'm not paid to write drivers. I'm not paid to debug drivers. I'm not paid to dick around with drivers.

      I'm paid to use the tools to achieve another task. Right now Nvidia has the best tools. Even if they don't show me how the hammers are made.

      Shall we speak about the support of Intel+Nvidia hybrid laptops ?

      I disabled the GPU switching, Nvidia graphics works great on my M6800. I'm typing on it right now.

    13. Re:Personally, I don't care. by laffer1 · · Score: 1

      NVIDIA sells more GPUs than AMD in discrete cards. They also aren't in a losing battle with Intel on x86. I'd say NVIDIA has a lot more money to play with.

      On the AMD side, they have some decent GPUs, with no OS support. They also have several failed die shrinks and haven't released a real CPU product since 2012 for the desktop. They're probably really hurting right now.

    14. Re:Personally, I don't care. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you want to use them on a platform they don't support officially.
      Then it's basically "fuck you", no alternative offered.

      Which, in a practical sense, is the same as AMD's stance of "go write a driver yourself".

      Well at least the possibility exists. There are specs, there's even code which works for Linux as a reference.
      Whereas with Nvidia? It's just "go fuck yourself" (unless you're referring to Tegra).

      How do you people not understand this? You think a "go write a driver yourself" is any different to "go fuck yourself" in practise? Hell even with Linux, the most widely adopted computer operating system in existence, the AMD open source driver still required an enormous amount of work from AMD themselves and it still isn't that good. Saying "the possibility exists" is a joke, it absolutely does not exist in any practical sense.

    15. Re:Personally, I don't care. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But then you can't find out if that food contains allergens that just might kill you.

      Sure you can. Eat it!

    16. Re:Personally, I don't care. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a cool story and all, but reality AMD pays developers to write the open source code.

  8. AMD's opensource is good by DrYak · · Score: 3, Informative

    And how good is that AMD driver?

    Their opensource driver (yup, they are also having some of the opensource driver developers on their own payroll) is actually pretty good.
    (As often shown on phoronix benchmarks).
    To the point that the open-source driver is the officially supported driver for older hardware platforms that get dropped out of catalyst. Usually by the time a card isn't supported by catalyst anymore, the opensource driver is demonstrating nearly as good performance (and on a few occasions, even better).

    The situation is quite different from Nvidia.

    With AMD:
    - the closed source driver is so-so. It's buggy and crashy, but at least there's 1st day support for newer hardware generations or newer features.
    - the open source driver is really good (thanks to actual input by AMD, both documentation *AND* paid position)
    - AMD is putting lots of effort in that direction. It progresses very slowly, takes time, but looks promision. AMDGPU is such an exemple (moving to a stack which is mostly open-source, with catalyst being only a proprietary openGL library running above the opensource component as an alternative to the opensource Gallium3D/Mesa's OpenGL state tracker).

    With NVidia:
    - the closed source driver is high quality. But it's basically an almost straight recompile of the windows stack. So you're fucked up if you need a feature that Linux does differently (hybrid Intel+Nvidia grpahics on laptop was such an exemple). Also fuck you if you use a newer kernel than what they are currently supporting (you can't use a rolling distro or a 3rd party repo to get the latest kernels, because Nvidia's drivers rely on their own special shim driver). And don't forget "fuck you too" if you have older hardware, they'll drop support from newer drivers, and only seldom support older generations of driver for you.
    - the open source driver is a mixed bag anywhere between total crap and more or less working. Not at all the fault of the developers. They are basically on their own it's a miracle what they managed to pull off with such a meager support.
    - Nvidia mostly doesn't give a crap about opensource development. From time to time, they might decide on a whim to be nice for once and throw a bone. Usually when it also helps Tegra developement and just happens to have some use for desktop cards.
    - The exception is the Tegra mobile platform. Given the overly dominant position of Linux in the embed world, Nvidia are regularily providing some help to the opensource Tegra support.

    So if you want opensource drivers not only for ideological reasons but also practical reasons (like having a rolling distro and/or latest kernels).
    AMD is the definitive GPU maker to go to.

    If you want the best performance ever while not minding whatever code you run, Nvidia is you best choice.
    (Just hope you won't land on one of the few "not supported" sore points, like laptops).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:AMD's opensource is good by laffer1 · · Score: 1

      You have a great post, but it's Linux specific. There is only one choice on FreeBSD and that's NVIDIA. They're the only company to support FreeBSD. AMD has no commercial driver for FreeBSD and the open source attempts are weak on BSD over the last 5 years. FreeBSD and DragonFly developers have put in recent efforts but it's hard to track all the crazy changes in the linux kernel lately.

    2. Re:AMD's opensource is good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find nouveau to be more stable compared to radeon.

    3. Re:AMD's opensource is good by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      hybrid Intel+Nvidia grpahics on laptop was such an exemple)

      Sorry to rain on your parade but this is shit on AMD cards too. The closed source driver AMD just discontinued (or not updated so it can run on fedora 23) actually worked better on my work Dell E6540 laptop. Some people I work with who started just before me are lucky enough to have the Nvidia version of this laptop and this works better with Linux.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    4. Re:AMD's opensource is good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great! So with AMD being open source friendly and nVidia being open source unfriendly it should be easy to prove that open source is better than proprietary and that will force nVidia to capitulate. So stop whining and get busy making those open source drivers you've been saying you can.

  9. Open SORES code thieves demand trade secrets? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Open SORES code thieves demand trade secrets unable to build it themselves expecting a company to give away it's hard-earned trade secrets? Please - make us laugh some more, ok?? Such FINE solid code from OPEN SORES WEASELS too (not) http://linux.slashdot.org/stor... Unbelievable - the "land of OPEN SORES" (otherwise known as plagiarism city) - where everyone claims others' code as "their own" falsely by ripping it off or by making incredibly security issue riddled vulnerable garbage as the link evidences.

  10. The trouble with unsigned firmware by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Is how do you keep folks from hacking the firmware to make an old 660 look like a 960 long enough to screw over a few hundred thousand nVidia customers. It's happened before... Sure, you know how to check your firmware. Lots of us do. Lots of us don't though, or don't care to learn.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  11. Re:more end-user friendly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These are linux drivers, kid. Piracy is a windows thing.