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Why Some Cities Get All the Good Jobs (chicagotribune.com)

New submitter Ericmesrr writes with a link to a Bloomberg story (as carried by the ChicagoTribune) about geographic trends in job creation in the U.S, from which he excerpts this quote from U.C Berkeley economist Enrico Moretti: "A handful of cities with the 'right' industries and a solid base of human capital keep attracting good employers and offering high wages, while those at the other extreme, cities with the 'wrong' industries and a limited human capital base, are stuck with dead-end jobs and low average wages. This divide I will call it the Great Divergence has its origins in the 1980s, when American cities started to be increasingly defined by their residents' levels of education. Cities with many college-educated workers started attracting even more, and cities with a less educated workforce started losing ground."

27 of 226 comments (clear)

  1. Technology Paradox by monkeyxpress · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I find this trend quite strange as well. In the late 90s everyone was going on about how technology would allow us to work from anywhere so we could spread out around the country. Things like cramming into an urban area, and flying to conferences were going to become unnecessary.

    Instead what I've observed is that the rise of 'thinking' jobs, which only require a desk, have made it more and more viable for people to live in concentrated urban centres. Contrast this with industrial jobs where you needed large amounts of land for a factory which naturally led to suburban developments. Similarly the rise of cheap air travel has raised the expectation that you'll just turn up at a conference, so I find I have to attend more now.

    I think this trend will continue until driverless cars are ubiquitous. These will open up huge amounts of land around urban centres (it will be like adding tube lines everywhere), and will probably cause a significant decline in central city density as people are freed from existing rent/transport monopolies.

    1. Re:Technology Paradox by hey! · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty much on the same page as you; the idea that we'd all be contractors telecommuting from any old place ignored a lot of things about people and organizations, including the fact that people have a life outside of work that makes a big difference inside of work. It ignores things like job and investor networking, which of course can be done on social media and LinkedIn, but the fact that so many people are doing that only makes face time that much more of a competitive advantage. Do not underestimate the social power of lunch. Or (shudder) *golf*. Those things sure as hell beats posting on someone's wall as form of social connection.

      But the "everyone will be a telecommuter thing" still might happen. The toughest thing in technology often isn't predicting what will happen, but when. It was pretty clear to many of us that tablets were the future, but Microsoft jumped the gun in 2001 with it's tablet PC initiative; you needed several things to make tablets work: batteries that could deliver sufficient energy without weight; power efficient processors with the performance to support new innovations in UI design with enough responsiveness to create a "direct manipulation" UX.

      If the everyone-is-a-telecommuter scenario is in our future, it'll be because of something we're missing now that we have no idea we're missing.

      --
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    2. Re:Technology Paradox by swb · · Score: 2

      I find this trend quite strange as well. In the late 90s everyone was going on about how technology would allow us to work from anywhere so we could spread out around the country. Things like cramming into an urban area, and flying to conferences were going to become unnecessary.

      This happened, except that instead of the jobs going to Kearney, Nebraska, they went to Bangalore, India, when management sorted out they could amplify the savings by hiring even cheaper workers in even cheaper locations.

    3. Re:Technology Paradox by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      I think this trend will continue until driverless cars are ubiquitous. These will open up huge amounts of land around urban centres (it will be like adding tube lines everywhere),

      What? No, no it will not. Trains have massively higher densities than automobiles. They only work economically when you have lots of passengers, but when you do, they transport them far more efficiently than do cars.

      and will probably cause a significant decline in central city density as people are freed from existing rent/transport monopolies.

      It will be nice to let the car commute for you, but it's no substitute for not having a commute.

      --
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    4. Re:Technology Paradox by ItsJustAPseudonym · · Score: 2

      This.

      The job postings for a company will show you most of what you need to know. Are they hiring for Project X? Then they actually believe in Project X. Are they hiring in GA? Then that's where they plan to be. The job postings reveal the truth.

    5. Re:Technology Paradox by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Those people in Cali make considerably more but they have to as their rent/mortgage, food, utilities, and everything else cost so much more than it does in Texas (or those rural areas especially.)

      I live and work in Silicon Valley, making $50,000+ a year. This is only possible by living a modest lifestyle that doesn't include a big house, brand new cars, and designer jeans. I gave up on the American Dream of having it all and learned how to be content with what I have. Some people consider me to be "poor" because I'm not spending money on the outward appearance of wealth.

    6. Re:Technology Paradox by RabidReindeer · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, int the 60s, everyone was going on about how the increased productivity automation brought us was going to have us all working 3-hour work days.

      Productivity went up, the work week went up, the profits from increased productivity went into someone else's pockets.

    7. Re:Technology Paradox by King_TJ · · Score: 2

      Yeah.... What I've found is in many cases, a company feels compelled to justify the money it's shelling out on leasing its office space. EG. Where I work now, they have a pretty "prime" street address in a major city and I don't think they want to give that up, since it helps from a marketing standpoint. (People see the physical address and know we must at least be somewhat successful....)

      But upper management seems to find it painful to let too many people work from home (even though 90% of the time you can do so just fine here). They just can't seem to reconcile paying that high a rent and seeing a bunch of empty offices and desks. So they try to apply a little bit of pressure to get people to come in, even if it's nothing more than holding a video-conference session where they make it clear they "prefer you attend in person, in the main meeting room" and offer a company paid lunch afterwards as a bribe. Or as often happens to me, working in computer and network support -- management demands in person assistance with something you can fix just as easily via remote control.

      I used to think this was going to change over time as technology enabled companies to do away with some of the brick and mortar presence. But now I'm not so sure? I think there's a pervasive mindset that successful businesses own nice real-estate that customers or would-be customers can see as they drive by.

    8. Re:Technology Paradox by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      Silicon valley is not the center of the universe.

      I was born and raised in Silicon Valley. This is my home. People are always surprised that there are natives still left in the area.

    9. Re:Technology Paradox by plopez · · Score: 2

      I get a good 60 to 70 pct more than that and I live outside of Silly Valley. Which means a lower cost of living. I have a great life style which includes a short work commute.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    10. Re:Technology Paradox by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      He doesn't need to provide statistics to back that assertion, and it doesn't even need to be true.

      The only thing that matters is that companies have been shying away from remote work (rather than adopting or allowing more of it). So even if their reasoning is faulty or the underlying premise (that too many people are unable to communicate and stay focused) is incorrect, it's irrelevant: perception is the only thing that matters, not reality.

  2. Kids by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Awe, thats cute.

    You've just discovered something thats been happening since civilization started.

    Cities rise and fall based on their usefulness at the time, not your nostalgic feelings about them.

    The universe does not play favorites and isn't a fanboy, it doesn't artificially prop up things that should cease to exist, like worthless cities.

    Its not just American cities, its all cities, across the entire world.

    --
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    1. Re: Kids by cyberspittle · · Score: 2

      Trains have not evolved. Too much is wasted on high speed trains, like we see overseas in Japan and Europe, but what the US needs is high speed freight trains. We have too many people driving trucks across the country. Trucks should be more local ... local to the train hub end point. Big rigs also tear up the road, which is expensive to maintain. Hyperloop would also be good. Not sure if hyperloop is better for people or freight or both.

    2. Re: Kids by DriveDog · · Score: 2

      I think there is too much focus on a few high-speed passenger trains, yes, at the expense of speeding up all passenger trains. But every little bit you speed up Northeast passenger service, you cut back on airline congestion. The bigger problems in the US are that, outside of a few areas like the Northeast, freights and passenger trains share tracks. Passenger trains are then delayed, delayed, and delayed. What we need are separate tracks for slow and fast trains almost everywhere. Oh, and speeding up all freights makes no sense. No, combine high value-to-volume and value-to-mass freight with relatively fast (120mph+) passenger service and leave the bulky (and often hazardous) stuff on slow freights trundling along at 45mph.

    3. Re: Kids by NormalVisual · · Score: 2

      The bigger problems in the US are that, outside of a few areas like the Northeast, freights and passenger trains share tracks. Passenger trains are then delayed, delayed, and delayed.

      Exactly. Amtrak's schedule effectively is "whatever the freight railroad that owns the tracks decides it will be", because the freight carriers really could not care less if they delay an Amtrak train. It's not uncommon to have waits of several hours as the passenger train sits on a siding waiting for a freight to pass, or for whatever other reason the railroad decides.

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    4. Re:Kids by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      Cities rise and fall based on their usefulness at the time, not your nostalgic feelings about them.

      It's not just their usefulness, but also their political power and ability to engage in rent seeking. That is, a large part of the wealth of cities is not due to their contributions to society and the economy, but their ability to impose costs on the rest of the country and create trade barriers and monopolies protecting their interests. That's also nothing new; Adam Smith already discusses these mechanisms in detail.

    5. Re: Kids by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      [...] but what the US needs is high speed freight trains

      There's a box car shortage as many are near the end of their 50-year lifecycle and newer boxcars are so expensive that they're not economical for the railroads to put into service.

      The number of boxcars in service in North America fell by 41% in the past decade to just under 125,000 last year as 101,600 cars were scrapped and only about 13,800 replacement were added. That downsizing accelerated a decadeslong shift by railroads to more specialized railcars and intermodal carriers that allow shipping containers to hop from trucks to trains.

      http://www.marketwatch.com/story/shortage-of-railroad-boxcars-has-shippers-fuming-2015-06-21

    6. Re: Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      The US is doing much better in that regard than Europe: the US has by far the largest rail system in the world, both in absolute terms and relative to population and area. And the US rail system is used at nearly 100% capacity for freight.

      European rail system are inefficiently utilized for passengers, that's why European highways are clogged with huge trucks hauling large loads long distance.

  3. Remote by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    An even better question is why things seem to work so well working remotely from India, yet no one can work remotely from across the country.

    --
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    1. Re:Remote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Remote working from India doesn't work well. The end result is a disaster in quality of the product. But it is a CHEAP disaster. MBA types like cheap (except for themselves).

      I've had friends who sent software projects to India that were complete loses, years spent on software that turned out to be completely unusable. Since it was relatively cheap it didn't break their companies, but it would have been better if they had spent more locally and got working products.

      lol. You two are obviously ignorant tards. If you had an MBA, like me, you'd know why the cheaper option was the better option. I don't need a "working product" to get a big raise. I only need a good press release and numbers in the black on the day the press release comes out. As a wise man once said "Delivery has nothing to do with the delivery business. Image, people, image! Scope out this new ad." If you had an MBA, which you don't, you'd know that business isn't about selling things to consumers only to investors. Investors don't want products they want performance no matter how short term. Once the investment bucks come in scoop up a bunch for yourself and blame any losses on American workers. If the company goes under you're fine, because the laws of incorporation will prevent anyone going after your private assets, but you can still justify your huge salary by saying you take the most risk in leading the company.

      I mean, get a job hippies!

  4. Local resources by nycsubway · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Most American cities were established based on a local resource: mining, hydro-power, farming, railroad junctions, or a harbor. So many northeast cities declined when the manufacturing tied to those resources moved on. The same thing with the midwest steel towns, and the further midwest railroad towns. Look at some of the boomtowns of the last 30 years. What local resources do most cities in Texas have, or Las Vegas, or Silicon Valley? They basically have nice climates, and the ability to quickly support a new population of people.

    The American economy is much less based on manufacturing now, so the jobs can go anywhere. Even a large manufacturer no longer needs 5000 people working in one valley because the river provided the power, the mines provided the ore, and the railroad provided the transportation. They can move that factory to New Mexico because trucks and rail can bring it all in and out. The tech companies can go absolutely anywhere. The only resource they are tied to is the educated workforce, which I agree with the article is a self-manifesting destiny. Success brings more success, and the opposite happens at less fortunate cities.

    1. Re:Local resources by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      What local resources do most cities in Texas have, or Las Vegas, or Silicon Valley? They basically have nice climates, and the ability to quickly support a new population of people.

      Wrong. You've obviously never spent a summer in Las Vegas (or Phoenix, which has basically the same climate). 120F is not a "nice climate".

      The only thing Las Vegas has going for it is gambling: before the Indian reservations got involved in gambling, Vegas was the nearest place people from Los Angeles could go to go gambling. So everything about Vegas now is based on that past inertia, nothing more. The city's economy is entirely based on gambling, both from the casinos, and the various industries which support them (like all the companies that build gaming machines).

      Most cities are like this: they started out somehow, by an accident of history or presence of resources, and gained a lot of inertia from that over time. Silicon Valley survives because it has so many skilled people there.

  5. Underestimate Value of Skill Concentration by Koreantoast · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think you greatly underestimate the value of creating large pools of talent in a single location. It is true that an individual can succeed on his own, working virtually in support of a company or himself. However, when you live in a community of similar talent, there's a sharpening effect - people coming together, sharing ideas, supporting one another, and ultimately, creating new businesses together. It's not impossible for this to happen virtually, but it is much easier when people are close to one another, able to do this informally whether over coffee, dinner, drink or just hanging out - essentially living life together. Proximity allows for much more rapid and deeper networking so that when those new ideas emerge, it's much easier to find and recruit the talent you need. Finally, when you have concentrated pools like this, you begin to develop secondary infrastructure that makes doing business in that area all that much more attractive - venture capital all the way down to better coffee.

    I get you on the whole driverless car and hyperloop thing, but people really are very localized, and unless you can make both so fast that the thought of going to another city for drinks is no different a time and energy commitment than going to the bar a couple blocks away, it's not going to really work.

  6. Re:Being around like people. by wyHunter · · Score: 2

    Funny, I live very remote and work from home 100% of the time. Yet I'm on phone, IM, online conferences with coworkers constantly. I don't feel the slightest bit out of touch.

  7. Unenforceable Non-competition in California by hashish16 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why does California have all the tech job? It is because non-compete clause are difficult to impose which allows talented individuals to roam around the industry. NAFTA took away the manufacturing jobs, but the high tech jobs are all still here, and they are concentrated in California mainly because of one piece of legislation: Edwards v. Arthur Andersen.

  8. Re:Mandatory College Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This divide — I will call it the Great Divergence — has its origins in the 1980s, when American cities started to be increasingly defined by their residents' levels of education.

    Mandatory high school is great, but is not enough. College should be mandatory.

    High school isn't mandatory. It is effectively required for many jobs, but not mandatory.

    Frog-marching people through "education" isn't a solution. It is actually part of the problem. It used to be that only people who were motivated by a desire to be educated completed college. It is no surprise that such people went on to be successful.

    The response has been to interpret a college degree as the cause of success. Thus, people who are motivated by the desire to make money go to college, regardless of their desire to be educated. This itself has perverted the market for education by raising the cost of pursuing the "investment" in future earning power. It has also crowded the education system with incurious people merely interested in credentials and job training.

  9. Re:How much of it is local politics? by TheSync · · Score: 2

    My industry is 90% based in Los Angeles and New York. If I moved to a city in Mississippi, that would be fine for now, but if I lost that job I'd need to relocate, along with those costs.

    Thus those cities never get a critical mass of jobs in my industry.

    Poor schools are not the problem. Los Angeles and most of the Bay Area have horrible public schools in general. People either cherry pick the few quality independent school districts in expensive areas of town (like Beverly Hills) or send their kids to private schools.