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Camless Internal Combustion and the Digital Age (hackaday.com)

szczys writes: The internal combustion engine is amazing, and it continues to evolve. Carburetors gave way to fuel injection, and a computer now monitors all kinds of sensors to ensure these engines operate at peak efficiency. But there is one thing that has remained largely unchanged: the cam shaft. This is a device responsible for mechanically timing the operation of the cylinders. It's possible to build an engine that uses digitally controlled actuators instead of a camshaft to decide when each cylinder should fire. These exist as prototypes — we have the technology, so why aren't we building with it? The answer is that change is hard, and as with the carburetor it could take an outside force (in that case mandatory efficiency benchmarks) to get automobile manufacturers to wager a bet on new technology.

46 of 383 comments (clear)

  1. Cam shafts work without the battery by chromaexcursion · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The fundamental parts of the engine are all mechanical. They work without a battery.
    Resilience to electrical failure is important.

    1. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by jonnythan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Like fuel injectors and fuel pumps?

      No modern car engine will run without electricity.

    2. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by Brandano · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But the failure of a mistimed valve is way more catastrophic than that of a misfiring injector or spark plug. Even if an electrically actuated valve system was to be used in production I'd expect it either to be supported by a backup mechanical system or to be designed never to interfere with the volume occupied by a piston. In the first case the electronic valve would be an additional cost only justified on high performance engines, in the second case it would affect the performance negatively. Perhaps this could work with sleeve valve engines?

    3. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by jo7hs2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, the idea of something smashing into something else due to a failure is what concerns me. I've already experienced what happens when a camshaft position sensor fails gradually enough that it doesn't trigger a fault in a computer...nasty ignition timing with backfires at high RPM...a Ford Taurus belching fire on the highway...and the idea of parts flying around without protection is why I don't own an interference engine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    4. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by stilwebm · · Score: 2

      The fundamental parts of the engine are all mechanical. They work without a battery.

      Resilience to electrical failure is important.

      The fundamental parts of the engine are all mechanical. They work without a battery.

      Resilience to electrical failure is important.

      Critical components of your engine, i.e. fuel injectors, ignition, your high pressure fuel pump all work with electricity from the 12V system. On most newer cars, so does the throttle body (it's no longer actuated by a cable from the accelerator).

      Resilience to failure in an interference engine can be achieved by failing closed, i.e. if the valve actuators lose power, they should close to move out of the way of rising pistons.

      The bigger reluctance on the part of auto manufacturers is probably reliability given actuators would need to sit near or on valves that are close to the combustion and therefore rapidly heat up and stay hot for drive cycles. Since electrical impedance changes as metals heat up, the issue is even more complicated. These parts are difficult to access and expensive to repair or replace if there are widespread reliability issues (think recalls). Finding a way to transmit the motion to control valves, e.g. via a pushrod, might help with some of these factors, but not eliminate them and reintroduce mechanical complexity.

    5. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Informative

      The fundamental parts of the engine are all mechanical. They work without a battery.
        Resilience to electrical failure is important.

      The sparkplug of a gas engine requires... electricity.

      A modern car engine uses an ECU which regulates spark timing and the transmission (usually called a PCU or Powertrain Control Unit nowadays) - it adjusts the spark timing and spark power based on the load of the engine. Lose battery power and the ECU goes dead. Depending on the vehicle, if you drop the battery, it may or may not continue running - the alternator will produce more than sufficient power to keep the engine running, but the battery provides voltage regulation of the entire system.

      And there are still completely mechanically driven engines - small aircraft use them, and they're a PITA to manage because you have to manually adjust the mixture (fuel-air ratio) for optimum power as you change altitudes. Experimental avgas aircraft, and production diesels (running on Jet-A) use a FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) which runs off the ship battery and a backup battery that fully controls the engine. The pilot only has a lever that tells the FADECs (there are two of them for redundancy) how much power to develop - the FADEC figures out the optimum settings to achieve that. You get an increase in efficiency, a decrease in pilot workload and all around increases in efficiency.

      Heck, Electronic Fuel Injection isn't on aircraft engines yet - yes, they've had fuel injection for around 25 years or so but it's generally of the continuous spray type.

      As for this, it does have some advantages like extreme variable valve timing. Hybrid cars, for example, often use a modified Atkinson cycle engine (modified because it's really an Otto cycle engine, with the intake valve kept open well into the compression stroke to reduce the fuel charge). Atkinson engines are extremely efficient - they have a small intake and compression stroke but a large power stroke (the goal is at the end of the power stroke to have 0 differential between cylinder pressure and air pressure, thus ensuring you have extracted all the energy).. But at the same time, Atkinson engines don't develop as much power. Being able to switch operating modes on the fly can be useful in pure gas-only cars - switch to Atkinson during low power for maximum efficiency (idling, highway), while being able to switch to Otto when you need power (accelerating, for example)

    6. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      unless you know how to push start a car with a manual transmission. You know "stickshift" ;)

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    7. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      It would depend on the type of fail. If something happens to alter the timing it might not even register a fault condition until after the fact. What could cause that would need to be investigated and protected against.

    8. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by msauve · · Score: 2

      there is one thing that has remained largely unchanged: the cam shaft

      The author apparently hasn't heard of two stroke or Wankel engines.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    9. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by sjames · · Score: 3, Informative

      In general, solenoids are either on or off, but that is not intrinsic to their design. Opening and closing times can be altered either electrically or physically (for example, using soft iron to slow the magnetic field's change).

      On some large diesel engines, the valves are driven hydraulically or pneumatically with solenoids just activating small control valves. On those, it's fairly easy to shape and position cylinder outlets to give it a (relatively) soft close.

      The rest, as you pointed out is a cost/benefit analysis.

      I can see some potential in the technology, but you won't see me buying a production car with it for the first few years after introduction.

    10. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by cheater512 · · Score: 2

      And it's also entirely possible to engineer it correctly.
      A bridge that fails is also pretty catastrophic, but oddly enough engineers have also dealt with that problem and no one is scared of bridges.

      We are at the stage of having computers self drive cars, but the moment a computer looks like it could control a engine valve suddenly it's a ridiculous idea?

    11. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by guruevi · · Score: 2

      That really depends. Most 'japanese' brands (Hyundai, Nissan, Mitsubishi) have interference designs. For Ford and GM vehicles it really depends on the engine, they have some interference, some non-interference.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    12. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I didn't think anyone still built interference engines, either, but apparently at least as of two years ago, a lot of smaller engines used interference designs. With that said, AFAIK, there's no technical reason that government safety standards couldn't mandate that electronic valve timing be used exclusively with non-interference designs. That would probably go a long way towards ridding the world of interference engines, at least in the long run, which would be IMO a good thing.

      For that matter, the main reason that valves are designed the way they are designed is that they have to be operated mechanically using simple levers. With an electronically controlled valve, at least in principle, there's no reason the valve couldn't be built in such a way that it either:

      • Opens outwards
      • Opens by sliding
      • Opens by iris action

      Any of those would eliminate the risk of the head colliding with the valves, and that last one could potentially also allow the ECU to individually adjust how much the valves open based on temperature, throttle, etc. much more precisely than any purely mechanical design, which might be beneficial in terms of fuel efficiency, noise, etc., or at least might allow them to eliminate external hardware that regulates airflow, thus reducing the overall cost of the engine.

      That said, I am not an engine designer, so this is mostly speculation.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    13. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      I didn't think anyone still built interference engines, either, but apparently at least as of two years ago, a lot of smaller engines used interference designs.

      Yeah, you have it backwards. Non-interference designs are the ones that have all but gone away. Subaru, Nissan, they've all gone interference.

      For that matter, the main reason that valves are designed the way they are designed is that they have to be operated mechanically using simple levers. With an electronically controlled valve, at least in principle, there's no reason the valve couldn't be built in such a way that it either:

              Opens outwards
              Opens by sliding
              Opens by iris action

      No, that's not true. There are good reasons why a valve has to open and close the way it does, although yes, it could open outwards. An iris would be too fragile. A sliding valve would wear its seals. Nobody is making an iris, but you can get the equivalent of a sliding valve from Coates right now. You can get a small block chevy up over 10,000 RPM by replacing the valvetrain... but why? And also, you have to replace the rotary valves periodically, and they are expensive.

      Anyway, Koenigsegg has got a fully functional solenoid-actuated valve. It's just too expensive to do on a mass-production car today. Eventually, it will get there.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by KGIII · · Score: 2

      I am trying to come up with a reason... I even waited until the thread had a bunch of comments before opening it. I'm quite an automobile aficionado. I love the automobile, I love the internal combustion engine, and I love driving - even in traffic. I've kept this love since childhood but now I can afford a whole collection of cars and a garage full of tools (and my own lift).

      I just, I just can't see any benefit to this? It's not that I'm a technophobe or a Luddite. I'm buying a damned Tesla! (How could I *not* want Ludicrous Mode or instant torque at the low-end?) I not only own several with an interference engine but I even have owned a diesel with an interference engine. (Jeep, if you're curious but I believe the engine was made by Renault.)

      I can think of lots of downsides to this. It's going to be a mess when the timing fails - there's no doubt about that, unless they find some way to sanity check AND fail gracefully. You can have a cam slightly out of whack and get home. You can get home with a slightly bent cam. I'm not the kind of guy who hates computers in my automobiles. Even my Kubota has computers - my snowmobile and ATV have computers. Shit, my lawn tractor has a computer on it.

      What efficiency gains are here? I can think of momentum and resistance. Those are trivial but there's some loss there. Timing? They're pretty damned optimized already. Weight? Maybe... Maybe I'm just not thinking this through - and I damned sure didn't read the article, but I'm not seeing any benefit. None... Well, I am seeing some but they're paltry.

      You've got what I already mentioned. It would certainly make repairs easier - just swap a box and plug it back in. Weight, maybe a slight improvement in timing, how much variation is there to be gained and how much efficiency can that result in? I guess, maybe, it might be nice in a racing engine? Something that you're going to tear down and rebuild after 1000 miles might not be bad - you can also tweak it for the track. I do a little rallying and I could see maybe tweaking the timing a little for routes with some hills.

      Cars have reached the point where you can buy a $15,000 Ford Focus, give it moderate attention, do your first tune it up at 100,000 miles, and expect to get 350,000 miles on it without any major repairs. Hell, the BMW I have here with me wants more attention than that! But, this? How long is that box going to last? When that fails, it's likely to be catastrophic. There's no limp home mode after that. There's no rebuild after that. Well, not for normal people.

      What am I missing? What gains are there from this? Can it be made to fail gracefully and sanity check under the conditions that a normal vehicle faces? Yes, I could see it in some high end vehicles and some specific vehicles that are tuned for certain things and may benefit from some refinement. But... What good is that going to do in a Ford Focus?

      I think I might read the article and then do some research. Sure, it's possible to do this. I'm the last person to say don't do it. I just don't see much real-world benefit and I see a lot of potential problems that will be interesting to see them overcome.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    15. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      I'm not an expert here, so please correct me if I'm wrong. One thing about solenoids is that they are either on or off or at least the times to actually activate the push on the valve to full open or release its force for full close are pretty short.

      The WVU version of camless engine uses rwo solenoids per valve. one to open, and one to close.

      Cam shafts are shaped for a more controlled valve action. I would guess that one could control the current through the solenoid coils to match that of the cam action. All this would mean computer activity, control circuits and a substantial increase in electric energy use.

      Pulse shape probably. Pulse shape is already used to control fuel injectors - and oddly enough one of those adjustments is sometimes made for RFI abatement.. A square wave pulse on a fuel injector generates a lot of Radio frequency interference But you can make an a valve actuator timing adjustment the same way.

      Also, there needs to be a serious comparison for failure modes between the two systems for reliability purposes. There are some common failure points such as a broken valve spring,

      Non interference engines would be a must.

      What is needed to judge how much this would help or not is if we knew the amount of horsepower the standard camshaft and valves steal form the engine. This is probably not insignificant. I cannot believe they didn't pt this critical percentage in the story.

      Working on the engines mechanicals would be easier. Back in my more gearhead rebuilding days, the camshaft bearings were the bugaboo for us all. Camshafts gears, and chains can be eliminated, and now we can even talk about not having headpans and oil flying around inside them.

      Imagine a valve/fuel injector/igniter assembly replaceable as a a unit. Imagine it replacing the heads. Imagine the water galleys that can be made a more integral part of the engine.

      It might be possible to get horsepower reclamation, efficiency and possible major reliability improvements by eliminating all that extraneous stuff on top of the engine.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    16. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by sr180 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Cam Timing - having a camshaft is a forced pick the optimum cam timing for the entire rev range - you get one choice - open at a particular degree in the cycle, and close. Further more, you cant adjust the ramp up and ramp down rates. The mechanicals have a limit on how quickly they'll ramp up and down - high rpm you'll get valve float and valve bounce.

      You can play around with it a little. Nissan in the 90's started with an actuator to shift the cam timing forward slightly at higher rev ranges. Honda and their VTEC - shift the camshaft to a more agressive mode at higher RPMS. But still, this is only playing at the fringes.
      Formula one has used pnuematic valve control for a while (camless). There is significant efficiency gains to allow higher revving engine, but more so to make sure the valve opening and closing timings are optmised for both the current engine rpm and load - which you can not do with a camshaft.

      All of the easy gains have been made. To get further efficiency gains, we're going to have to look at the more complex options such as this.

      --
      In Soviet Russia the insensitive clod is YOU!
    17. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Informative

      I just, I just can't see any benefit to this? ... What efficiency gains are here?

      Follow the links and do some research? 30% fuel economy increase at low end, 30% increase in power at the high end, 50% reduction in emissions for standard driving, 4cyl engine in the same space as a 3cyl engine in the engine bay, a 20cm reduction in vertical height of the engine, reduction in engine weight (benefit increases with engine size).

      Oooh and then you get into the really interesting things:

      Ability to shutdown cylinders completely on demand by holding the valve open when not needed.
      Eliminate engine breaking completely further increasing fuel efficiency by allowing an engine to freewheel without compression eating up efficiency.
      And then you can do other things like using the back stroke of an engine to compress cylinder during engine breaking and sore it in a compressed vessel which can then be reused to boost power when needed either at take-off or at peak power.

      Yep, no benefit at all.

      Also this is not new. Not at all. Industrial compressors have had electronically diven continuous unloaders for the best part of 25 years now, and I guarantee that most of the compressors I've worked with have more rotations through their cylinders than any slashdot driver.

    18. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by Apotekaren · · Score: 2

      Non-interference has all but disappeared, because of higher efficiency of interference engines.

      However, people seem to be misunderstanding the function of the electro-pneumatic valve. The electric solenoid would only OPEN the valve, with a pneumatic system returning it to close position. Electronic failure? Valve closed.

      --
      She: Hey, are you a traitor? Me: No, I'm atheist.
    19. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by Shawndeisi · · Score: 2

      I'm having trouble imagining one that opens outward, since the idea of it opening inward is that it can brace against the valve seat when the cylinder is firing. If you open it outward, the mechanism takes the full brunt of the forces against the surface area of the valve vs. a valve seat. Is there a good way to alleviate that issue?

    20. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      The problem is that when you are moving the valves at 200 Hz, the solid state will be issuing commands to the mechanical actuators faster than the actuators can respond. Sure, you can re-design the entire intake system with something that's faster to move, but that'd take billions of dollars, and everyone is waiting for someone else to do it, so they can all copy it.

      That's why the cam stays around. It's not only the control mechanism, but the actuator. You can replace the control mechanism with something solid state, but you can't do so until after you invent a new actuator. Hydraulic and pneumatic and electronic have been tried, and failed for various reasons. And nobody has had any success with new types of valves. The conditions inside a combustion chamber are just too rough.

    21. Re:Cam shafts work without the battery by kheldan · · Score: 2

      The reason they're not designed that way, is because the spring pressure required to keep the valve closed and sealed, not only against compression pressure, but against combustion pressure, would be so enormous as to be completely impractical. Valves that open inward still use some pretty hefty springs, but that's mainly to get them to close quickly; compression and combustion actually help them stay sealed when closed. Honestly, it seems sometimes that people assume that since a design is 'mature' (they read as: 'old') that there must be something wrong with it, and that designers/engineers are just lazy and keep using it. There are reasons why things are designed the way they are, as is the case here.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  2. Iot Camshaft Physical world bits programming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Camshaft hooked up to my Raspberry Pi. Ruby on Rails controlled Iot webserver platform with home automation built in. Insteon X10 platform protocols provide robust social media sharing.

    1. Re:Iot Camshaft Physical world bits programming by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 4, Funny

      Camshaft hooked up to my Raspberry Pi.

      Ooooo careful with that... the phrase "good driver" is rarely associated with Linux.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  3. My Company Had One... by Thelasko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    rumor is the hydraulics used a ton of power. The thing was much less efficient than a traditional cam driven engine. Sure, the valve timing and lift was perfect, but it was otherwise a nightmare.

    Ever break a timing belt on an interference engine? Very bad.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:My Company Had One... by lgw · · Score: 2

      Well, TFS says

      digitally controlled actuators instead of a camshaft to decide when each cylinder should fire

      Which isn't what a camshaft does. Ignition timing has been "digital" in most cars for some time now.

      rumor is the hydraulics used a ton of power. The thing was much less efficient than a traditional cam driven engine. Sure, the valve timing and lift was perfect, but it was otherwise a nightmare.

      My car has camshafts, but the timing of the open and close is plenty computer controlled. You don't need actuators to open and close the valves, you only need hydraulics to make the cams "bigger" when more power is wanted, or alternately to start opening a (usually much larger) set of valves past a certain RPM (insert "VTEC kicked in!" meme jpg here).

      It's not like you need to calculate cam profiles on the fly - the envope can be defined when the car is designed, for whatever factors you want to adapt to.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    2. Re:My Company Had One... by SumDog · · Score: 2

      Wait, I thought this was already implemented in Formula 1 cars? They don't have cams at all. They use pneumatic air injection and get up to 22,000 rpm....or at least they did before they switched to smaller engines and turbo chargers.

    3. Re:My Company Had One... by Predius · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They're still using cams. The pneumatic side is for closing the valves rather than using springs. Switching from heavy, inertia laden springs allows to penumatic closure allows for higher RPMs and more aggressive cam profiles.

  4. Camshafts control flow timing not firing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's possible to build an engine that uses digitally controlled actuators instead of a camshaft to decide when each cylinder should fire.

    Camshafts don't control when cylinders should fire, that's an already replaced component called the distributor. Camshafts control the timing of inlet and outlet valves, and there are already formula one and other engines using electronically actuated pneumatic valve lifters.

    The problem is that cam shafts are very reliable, and a single fault in valve timing, in an interference engine especially, results in catastrophic engine damage, so the software and hardware has a very high bar to meet for it to replace mechanical cams.

    Also firstpost.

    -puddingpimp

  5. Because physics and engineering. by leftover · · Score: 2

    One of the big limiting issues in this field (BTDT) is energy consumption by the actuators and associated circuit components. Valve are heavy relative to the accelerations needed by the motion profiles. This results in ferocious energy use and dissipation.

    If this power consumption is more than the engine power/efficiency gains from tinkering with profiles, the answer is an easy No.

    My only relevant direct experience was for an R&D engine to test different cam profiles without having to grind sets of camshafts. It used plant electrical power, can't remember exactly how much but the equivalent horsepower was in the teens.

    --
    Bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated.
    1. Re:Because physics and engineering. by pz · · Score: 2, Informative

      In doing a quick search for a mis-remembered car that I thought had an all-electric valve train, I came across some fellow's back-of-the-envelop calculations suggesting it would take about 20 KW to run a car's valvetrain electrically. That's a heapload of power.

      Naturally, much of that power is likely dynamic (accelerate the valve mass, so put energy into it, then halt the valve mass, pulling energy back out, repeat indefinitely). Doing it efficiently is going to be a bear with wires of normal conductivity. It's also going to be a very nice radio transmitter.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    2. Re:Because physics and engineering. by confused+one · · Score: 2

      This. It is not uncommon for valve springs to put just shy of 100 lbs of force on the seat, holding the spring closed; and, 300-400 lbs of force on the spring when the valve is open in order to guarantee that the valve closure acceleration is high enough during high RPM operation. These are the kinds of forces you have to replicate with your hypothetical actuator. It can be done; but, it is so energy intensive that the current generation of engines using roller cams and VVT are the more efficient solution.

  6. Put it in a NASCAR racer by mykepredko · · Score: 2

    Seriously. If the technology is mature (regularly survives a 500 mile race) while providing tangible benefits (more horsepower meaning a faster car with better fuel economy which means fewer pit stops) customers will demand it.

    Otherwise, it's of no perceived value to customers and might be seen as just another piece of electronic junk that is being foisted upon them (like anti-lock brakes for those of us who remember people who couldn't see their value).

    1. Re:Put it in a NASCAR racer by bobbied · · Score: 2

      I can bet you that NASCAR, which only recently went to electronic fuel injection and ignition systems, is not going to allow variable valve timing any time soon. They have enough trouble keeping the teams from bending the rules now, I'd hate to see how hard it would be to regulate this thing. Also, going 500 miles at 200mph is one thing, going 200,000 miles at 70mph quite another. Where they are related in some ways, they are different problems.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  7. Duke Engines by labnet · · Score: 2

    Here is an example of a cam-less engine that has been in development for over 10 years.
    http://www.dukeengines.com/

    --
    46137
  8. Does anybody have a car analogy to explain this? by hackwrench · · Score: 2

    No, wait... We're already talking about cars... Hmm, where does one go to for an analogy when the subject is already cars?

  9. Re:I already have a car with a camless engine by zenlessyank · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't be a wankel. Nobody likes a wankel.;)

  10. Re:Google 'Interference Engines' by whoever57 · · Score: 2

    The digital solution introduces at least two and possibly more points of failure per piston Loose or frayed wire? *BOOM* - destroyed engine. Mechanical failure of a single lifter? *BOOM* - destroyed engine.

    Not likely. Why? Most likely scenario is that the valve is opened via electronics and closed via a spring. Failure == closed valve. No permanent damage.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  11. News? Only a few decades old by whoever57 · · Score: 2
    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  12. I'll just leave this here: Koenigsegg does this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1101737_video-shows-inner-workings-of-koenigseggs-camless

  13. Re:Don't understand engines, eh? by brad3378 · · Score: 4, Informative

    They call it a "Digital Cam" because when you graph valve lift vs time it literally looks like a square wave. The ramps really are that steep!

    This compares to a conventional cam with a sudo-sinusoidal shaped wave lift profile (neglecting the effects of high RPM valve float).

    Criticize as much as you want, but a truly functional electronically controlled camless engine would be the holy grail of internal combustion engine design. You can easily pick up 20 horsepower on many engines just by swapping to a performance cam, but you often compromise efficiency. But with a camless engine, in theory, you could have cylinder deactivation, low compression starts, the elimination of throttle plates (lower pumping losses), "full race-cam" profiles for performance, a cam profile for smooth idling, low emissions, etc....
    Truly the best of both worlds!! That being said, there are disadvantages....

    ---

    I read an interesting SAE paper 20+ years ago describing a working prototype camless engine. The performance gains were impressive, but as I recall, there were two main obstacles:

    1) Noise, Vibration, and Harshness. (NVH)

    2) The valves landed harshly leading to valve seat wear. The SAE paper suggested using a method for softer valve landings.

    --

  14. Re:Useless Change by grimmjeeper · · Score: 2

    The OP was talking about engines that can advance or retard a single pattern cam. And when you have just one cam profile, you can only change the relative timing. The duration and lift stay fixed. Duration is the number of degrees of camshaft rotation that the valve is open. Adjusting when a camshaft opens the valve doesn't change how long it stays open, or how far it opens for that matter. Electrically controlled valves can vary all 3 of those things.

    Sure, the VVT tech changes from one camshaft profile to a second one. But that's all they can choose from. You either use one or the other. You might be able to squeeze 3 profiles in there if you use a DOHC setup that splits the intake and exhaust lobes between two physical camshafts and gives you room to fit the multiple patterns. But it would be a lot more complicated to do that. And you're still limited to a few fixed profiles. Electrically controlled valves do not have this limitation.

    Electrically controlled valves, in theory, have "infinite" adjustability (within certain limits). You can have dozens, hundreds, probably even thousands of profiles to choose from. All you have to do is have the computer pick the profile based on load, throttle position, etc. and it changes instantly.

  15. Re:Koeniggsegg is still working on it by Cramer · · Score: 2

    I just love how it looks like a Honda B18 shoespooned into a Saab wagon.

    And for all the talk of a square cam profile, their system is still not square (nor will it every be.) It takes time to open and close a valve. Their system may be fast, but it isn't perfect. And I seriously doubt it can run diesel or gas in the same engine -- the compression it takes to get diesel to burn causes gas to detonate. The engine has to be designed to burn diesel, and electronically programmed to allow gas (leave the valves open to effectively reduce the stroke) -- and they'll be instantly sued by toyota/lexus because that's how their atkins cycle engines works. Any such design will be less efficient than one specifically designed for gas.

    (We've had engines that can "burn anything" for a long, long time... gas turbine. Toyota built one decades ago; it was loud and sluggish, so they scrapped it. GM did the same thing back in the 70's; recalled and destroyed every one of them. Their fuel efficiency is scary -- over 100mpg. Today, they're only found in main battle tanks.)

  16. Re:Useless Change by brad3378 · · Score: 3, Informative

    One more MAJOR advantage of a camless design (if not the single greatest advantage) would be the ability to have extremely canted valve angles. Retrofitting an existing cylinder head design with camless engine technology is only scratching the surface. The biggest benefits would be gained by designing the cylinder head ports around the capabilities of the valve actuators. With cylinder head differences like this, we're literally talking about the difference between NASCAR horsepower levels and streetcar horsepower because cylinder head designs are the undisputed most important factor in making horsepower.

    With traditional cylinder heads (on OHV engines), valve angles are limited by the rocker arms. Rocker arm rotation about one axis is trivial, but when the valve is canted it makes the valvetrain design exponentially more complex and prone to wear due to lateral loads as the angle is increased. A camless engine design wouldn't have this limitation. That being said, the camless designs have their own challenges, namely soft valve seat landings due to a nearly perfect square-wave lift profile.

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  17. Its all about history by wakeboarder · · Score: 2

    I designed some spacecraft. We were limited on what we could use for a microprocessor because we needed something with history. We almost used an 8051 variant. Same goes for engines, lets say you invent an awesome engine, it even makes you toast in the morning amongst other great things like saving you fuel. You take it to one of the manufacturers, and they love it, because it saves their customers fuel and it give them more incentive to buy their products. Then they tell you, we have these things called warranty's that we offer on all of our vehicles can you tell us the MBTF? Most of the parts are new so you go back to your lab and run it for 5-10 years.

  18. Re:Bullshit by dwywit · · Score: 2

    Hope this doesn't count as a Godwin, but the germans were using fuel injection in their WWII fighters, and it proved a significant advantage over carburetted allied fighters - the FW-190 could perform a radical nose-dive which would leave a Spitfire fuel-starved.

    Fuel injection has been around a LONG time - just like disc brakes - but they both took a long time to make it to mass-production motor cars.

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    They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom