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Copyright Professor's Lecture Removed From YouTube Over Sony Content-ID Claim (torrentfreak.com)

ShaunC writes: William Fisher, a professor of intellectual property law at Harvard, posted to YouTube a lecture titled "The Subject Matter of Copyright: Music." In discussing the complexities of music licensing and cover songs, Fisher played several short clips of music by Hendrix, Santana, and others. Sony responded by having the lecture removed from YouTube, ignoring any fair use protection in excerpting works for educational purposes. While the video was restored after public backlash, most YouTube users don't have Harvard Law School backing them up. Once again, a company has issued overreaching copyright claims with no penalty or consequence for harming an innocent party.

32 of 157 comments (clear)

  1. until people get punished for false claims by 0xdeaddead · · Score: 5, Insightful

    and yes PEOPLE, not corporations, but the people making these false claims the system will remain the same.

    hail corporate!

    1. Re:until people get punished for false claims by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 5, Informative

      Youtube has a bit of a larger problem. Nobody gets punished for false claims. You don't even need a person, because Youtube will automate it for you. And while people can file claims as quickly as they'd like, instantly taking videos down or stealing ad revenue, it can take months to go through the review process of putting a video back up. It's a crazily one-sided system. Nostalgia Critic, a long-time movie reviewer, talks about it in a recent video.

    2. Re:until people get punished for false claims by Immerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't punish the program, or even the person maintaining it - punish the person who gave the order.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    3. Re:until people get punished for false claims by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hillary and the Republicans

      Sounds like the world's worst New Wave band. They had a single in the '90s, "Watch Us Fuck All These People Over, Pt 2".

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:until people get punished for false claims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      plagiarize
      1. To reproduce or otherwise use (the words, ideas, or other work of another) as one's own or without attribution.
      2. To plagiarize the words, ideas, or work of (another person).
      v.intr.
      To present another's words or ideas as one's own or without attribution.

      The NC always gives credit to the studio that made the movie, I don't think he's trying to say the movie is his own work. Also given some of his views on the movies themselves I don't think he'd WANT them to be his. Not to mention Channel Awesome is a business. The NC makes money off of his reviews, both in terms of views of the videos and the ADs he places in them. (Not to mention the CA store....) CA has been in business since 2008. If he was doing something any where near plagiarism, I think the MPAA would have dealt with him by now. Especially given his reviews tend not to show the movies in their best light.

      the nostalgia critic pretty much puts the whole movie in his "review" videos while contributing not much more than making funny faces and pretending to be upset

      Yes, that's the point. His reviews are a satire. Don't like it? Then go watch something else. That being said, he does pick apart the movies to find something to make a joke on or to support his (presented) views. Yes this is needed, as sometimes the joke or viewpoint would make no sense without context. (Something that copyright explicitly has an exemption for.)

      I'm not defending youtube's current system, but that guy has no room to complain when he's downright uploading whole movies and contributing nothing to the equation.

      1. He does not upload entire movies.
      2. Learn the defintion of plagiarize.
      3. That's your opinion. To many others he is an entertainer, and definitely contributes something to the public.

    5. Re:until people get punished for false claims by davester666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, it's Youtube, which uses Google's ContentID system and process, which uses just private contract law, not the DMCA.

      It amounts to "We (google) permit a limited number of wealthy partners arbitrarily decide to either take down or make money off whatever videos they want on our service, in exchange, they agree not to sue us for copyright violations, even though they know they would lose."

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    6. Re: until people get punished for false claims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      This thread prompted me to watch one of these "reviews." So I picked the first one I saw that was a movie I'd actually seen, "A.I. Artificial Intelligence."

      First of all, the video is entirely obnoxious. That anyone considers this to be interesting is beyond my understanding. It's just some idiot who honestly has nothing to say, but just wants to make a "review" and so he looks for every criticism he can, because that's what reviewers on YouTube do. ...and it isn't because I care for the movie, I'll be the first to agree that most movies are complete shit, but there's a difference between talking about what really makes a movie fail and simply pointing out any and every flaw you see as you watch the movie so that you have an excuse to show as many clips from it as possible. ...but unfortunately, that's what passes for a "review" on YouTube.

      That video isn't a review, it's a summary with some commentary. Summaries are derivative works, even small ones, but especially summaries that are 25% the length of the original movie. To claim that this is fair use is to tell Reader's Digest that they can create digest versions of books without paying the original author a dime as long as they toss some shit commentary in the margins and call it "a review." Obviously that would never fly in the real world, so why is it OK on YouTube? Because they're amateurs and can't be held to the high standards of creating reviews that are valuable enough to stand up on their own? ...except that they're not amateurs. Most of YouTube is just the worst kinds of people doing whatever gives them more views, as more views is more money.

      Fair use isn't "I get to include some clips from other people's work in order to make my work more valuable," it's "I get to include clips from other people's work when doing so is necessary in order to talk about it." Like that douche said in his own video, it's about freedom of speech in that sometimes it's difficult to talk about something without making reference to it. However, one could easily have made a review of "A.I. Artificial Intelligence" without including 30 fucking minutes of footage from the movie. As example, consider how I've managed to review this douche's review without quoting a single word of it.

  2. DMCA penalty by CanadianRealist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While DMCA is not likely mentioned, it likely is involved. And the reason there is no penalty is because Sony only needs to prove that it is a copyright holder, not that the video that was taken down is actually in violation of copyright.

    So the solution is simple. The professor should post some cat video on YouTube, claim copyright, and then file to have every video from Sony removed via a DMCA request.

    Hopefully with the whole Harvard Law Faculty behind him he can get away with it and show how broken the system is.

    1. Re:DMCA penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      So the solution is simple. The professor should post some cat video on YouTube, claim copyright, and then file to have every video from Sony removed via a DMCA request.

      You actually can't do that. I've tried.

      Since it is a completely legal and sanctioned in law action to do, I don't mind admitting this.
      I setup a shell LLC with a youtube channel and over about a month filed over 50 copyright claims against sony entertainment, plus 4 copyright take down requests.

      Youtubes automated system for limiting an account after the 4th claim request, which works consistently for any and all other channels, is silently ignored and dropped for Sony.

      They are quite literally on an "Exempted from legal and evidence supported allegations of criminal activity" list.

      For any other random channel, if you make 4 claims at the same time against their channel, youtube takes that channels past month of monitization and gives it to you, limits your video uploads to 15 min max, prevents you from filing your legal takedown counter claims, and can even have the channel outright deleted.
      Anyone with a youtube channel can legally do this to anyone else with one.

      But do the exact same thing to Sony and nothing.

      Which also means, since no one is allowed to accuse Sony of actual crimes perpetrated on youtube, that Sony is legally allowed to take all of your videos music and other content, post it on their channel as-is completely unaltered, and claim it as their own property.

      After that they can submit all of your audio to their own content ID matching, so any video you ever post in the future where your own voice says any word that you have already used in a past video, Sony owns your voice and you are in violation of copyright law.

      Even if you were to go to court to sue Sony for infringing your copyright, the "evidence" that youtubes content ID explicitly states your own work is owned by Sony and not you can easily be used against you.
      I fear many judges looking between Sony and some twit on the internet are going to just assume Sony is making the truthful and accurate statements, and clearly you must be wrong.

    2. Re:DMCA penalty by Cramer · · Score: 3, Informative

      You need to use paper -- the tried and true method of all things legal. Youtube gets too many crackpots, like you, doing this sort of shit, so they ignore you. Serve an actual from-a-lawyer DMCA notice to youtube (and Sony), and they will act on it. They cannot legally ignore it. I suspect 100% of your takedown requests were complete bunk, and Sony's legal team would toss you into a wood chipper if you actually filed them.

    3. Re:DMCA penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      His whole point is that *most* takedown request are complete bunk, but if you're Sony you don't have to deal with that. Which is just one of a dozen pieces of power imbalance that make the current system untenable -- Sony can make bunk claims against you all day, without evidence or paperwork or even a human being in the process. They can use those bunk claims to steal your money AND your content. But if you make claims against Sony -- even valid ones supported by evidence and paperwork -- YouTube simply ignores those claims.

      This isn't some theoretical exploit, it's status quo for a lot of people who produce content for YouTube. Other easy examples include NASA content being blocked because some media company used NASA's (explicitly public domain) videos and falsely claimed to own the copyright on them. This affected the public at large for the supposed benefit of a media company that isn't concerned enough about copyright to not assert claims on things they took from the public.

  3. Re:need to pay the legal bills + any back ad reven by CanadianRealist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Google did exactly what the law requires them to do. Sony made the false claim, they should be the ones that pay the penalty. And also the people in government who created something as broken as the DMCA.

  4. Why can't YouTube fix this? by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If someone legitimately infringes content they eventually cut off your ability to upload content. Why can't they do the same from the other direction? If someone issues too many bogus claims they lose the ability to issue more claims.

    1. Re:Why can't YouTube fix this? by jafiwam · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If someone legitimately infringes content they eventually cut off your ability to upload content. Why can't they do the same from the other direction? If someone issues too many bogus claims they lose the ability to issue more claims.

      They don't want to.

      It suits them just fine to allow their service to be "cleaned" of things they don't believe in while not actually having a policy about those things.

    2. Re:Why can't YouTube fix this? by dissy · · Score: 2

      If someone legitimately infringes content they eventually cut off your ability to upload content. Why can't they do the same from the other direction? If someone issues too many bogus claims they lose the ability to issue more claims.

      Because filing a bogus claim is a legal action codified in law as your right to do.
      Ignoring a bogus claim however is a criminal action with some pretty heavy penalties for doing.

    3. Re:Why can't YouTube fix this? by sjames · · Score: 3, Informative

      They're not legally obligated to let complainants use the automated fast track system. As long as they respond to an actual on-paper notice within a reasonable time of receiving it by mail, they're within the law.

      There's also no reason they can't allow the uploader to counter the claim instantly and put the video back up.

  5. Verified edu accounts should be protected. by dsmatthews9379 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It is that simple, if an account has the right credentials a far more stringent process should be used to scrutinise their content if there is a complaint, and that process should be designed to ensure the rights of all parties are fully protected.

    Save the automated kill scripts for Mr. Fakename and his 2 week old account.

  6. Another simple solution by watermark · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Right now, Youtube takes the video down as soon as a DMCA claim is made against the video. One of the biggest issues is that youtubers depend on the ad revenue which is lost when these bogus DMCA claims take the video down (or worse, they redirect the ad revenue to the company that made the false claim).

    The solution is to give the author of the video some time to counter-claim that the video is not infringing, without automatically taking the video down. That or punishing the company that made the false claim. Either works, the later probably would work better, but it would be hard to enact in practice.

  7. Re:DMCA has consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you claim a) you own copyright or represent the owner of the copyright on a particular Jimi Hendrix song, b) the defendant copied the song (in part or in entirety), c) the part of the song is not valid fair use, and d) the defendant did not secure permission before copying, the only claim subject to perjury charges is a). As long as a) is true, issuing a take-down notice even when knowing one or more of b)-d) are false has no consequence.

    The movie and music industries got vastly more than their money's worth with our copyright laws, including the DMCA.

  8. A different simple solution by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The solution is to give the author of the video some time to counter-claim that the video is not infringing, without automatically taking the video down. That or punishing the company that made the false claim. Either works, the later probably would work better, but it would be hard to enact in practice.

    The solution is to sue the offending party.

    The professor has damages from lost revenue, so should have standing to sue. Google was only doing what the law requires, so the professor should sue Sony in civil court.

    Or perhaps start a class-action suit against Sony.

    In engineering, there are lots of interesting technical problems and lots of engineers with spare time.

    In law, there are lots of legal problems, and also lots of self-proclaimed "under employed" lawyers.

    In engineering, we have a world of open source software, operating systems, electronic designs, cheap laptops and inexpensive microcontroller boards whose specs rival a desktop PC of ten years ago.

    In law, we've got... an endless parade of rights violations, injustice, and unfair abuse.

    The victim is a law professor at Harvard, for god's sake! Why doesn't he file suit and get some of his students to help with the case hands-on?

    Maybe I expect too much of lawyers. They're probably wired differently than engineers.

  9. Of course not ... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Once again, a company has issued overreaching copyright claims with no penalty or consequence for harming an innocent part

    Of course they don't have any consequences.

    They got exactly the fucking laws they bought, ones with they can make unfounded accusations with no burden of proof, and which people are expected to jump to and enforce or face their own penalties ... make no mistake about it, this is exactly what they wanted, and exactly what they got.

    And, they've managed to get the US government on the fucking payroll to ensure every other damned country has the same absurd bullshit. And companies like YouTube pretty much have to jump and say "yessir boss".

    The DMCA and related laws are supposed to give them all the power, and no accountability. That's what they paid for, that's what they got.

    This is what was said when it was happening, and this is what has been said ever since. But let's not pretend this is the first we're learning about just how defective these laws are.

    These damned laws a broken by design, because they were written by and for the copyright cartel, and the rest of us can go get stuffed.

    Blame the idiot politicians who gave this shit to them -- Sony and these guys? They paid those clowns fair and square. And they keep delivering in the form of even more fucking broken garbage, like the IP provisions in the TPP which will more or less the USA in championing the rights of multinational corporations like the puppets they are.

    Hell, DHS (and by extension ICE) are now the enforcement arm of the copyright cartel. Welcome to the awesome future where corporations have more rights than you do.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  10. Fair use doctrine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    As much as I hate copyright trolls, Sony in primis; people most of time really don't understand the fair use doctrine.
    What is and what is not fair use can only be decided by a judge and it varies case by case. There is no law stating what is precisely fair use and what isn't. And this is what gives the copyright trolls such an advantage. They have simply to say it's not fair use and bingo you're censored. And your only legal recourse is to go to court. And even then because fair use doctrine is so vague it's possible the judge is going to go against you. The situation would be much easier if instead of the fair use doctrine we had a law stating exactly and clearly what are the boundaries of fair use.

    1. Re:Fair use doctrine by dunkindave · · Score: 5, Informative

      I came to post similar information. Fair Use is an affirmative defense, meaning you admit you violated the letter of the law (used part of a copyright work without express permission), but you had a legally acceptable reason for doing so. The rights holder has the legal right to claim any use is infringing, and it is up to the user to show they their usage falls within one of the allowable exceptions, such as being a short excerpt, or a parody, or a critique, etc. Where the boundaries are between a short excerpt and a long one, is left as an exercise for the jurist, as are the boundaries for the other exceptions. In this case, Sony claimed the professor used songs without permission, and they are correct, so they complained to Youtube. At that point, it became the professor's responsibility to prove his use was allowable under the law according to the fair use doctrine (note it is a doctrine and not technically a law), which he appears to have done, at least to Youtube's satisfaction.

  11. so COUNTERSUE!!!!!!!! by slashmydots · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What the hell is wrong with people? Sue them for damages based on lost ad revenues if the video was monetized. There are no consequences to a fake DMCA takedown but doing almost anything to someone that causes them to lose money means they can sue you for damages. Why does nobody do this?!

  12. Turn the tables by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2

    However, if the punishment is so toothless as to encourage corporations to, in turn, encourage their employees to continue to break the rules

    If this is true then one way to fix it might be to turn the tables on the corporations: report their content and have it removed so they can see first hand how one sided the rules are. With any luck they may go crying to their lobbyists and the law will be changed to include some penalty for abuse of the system.

    1. Re:Turn the tables by dryeo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then the law will be changed so that only registered media companies can issue take down notices.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    2. Re:Turn the tables by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      I don't think they need an explicit "little guy can't sue big guy" rule. As it is, they've rigged the system so that lawsuits are expensive and time consuming. This is nothing for a big corporation but can easily be taxing for a small company/individual. Since defending themselves in court is something big companies can do much more effectively, they tend to feel like they can ignore the rights of smaller companies/individuals until sued. (And even then, they offer a token, non-precedent-setting settlement or threaten a protracted, expensive legal battle.)

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  13. For a real DCMA notice, a real lawyer signs. by robbak · · Score: 2

    Notionally, that lawyer is responsible for the notice. But the law has a 'good faith' provision, that clears the lawyer if the notice was issued in good faith. As everyone is interpreting that 'the computer told me to put it on the notice, I didn't check anything' as 'good faith', the penalties in the act have no effect.

    If only web sites were keeping track of videos like these as 'canaries', and automatically rejecting as invalid any notices that include them. A notice that includes a video that is so clearly not infringing could not be considered 'valid'.

    --
    Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
    1. Re:For a real DCMA notice, a real lawyer signs. by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's nearly impossible to prove bad faith though, unless someone kept a record of their intent. So a good faith provision is essentially the same as saying there is no punishment.

    2. Re:For a real DCMA notice, a real lawyer signs. by freeze128 · · Score: 2

      At least record who has submitted the take-down notice, and collect this information and make it public so the world will know who is making the most unwarranted take-downs.

    3. Re:For a real DCMA notice, a real lawyer signs. by KGIII · · Score: 2

      That sounds good and all. I admit - I only gave it about five minutes of thought. I guess that's more than most of us give one of our replies, so that's that.

      But, well... It just sounds good. What's it actually going to mean? What good will that do? When you see, XYZ Holdings Inc as the record of who submitted it, what are you gonna do about it? Make a mental note and then do, what?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  14. The Wrecking Crew by mbstone · · Score: 2

    The record companies also shook down the producers of the 2008 film, The Wrecking Crew, a documentary about a very few, unknown, session musicians who played on innumerable hit records from the 1950s and 1960s. The release of the film was delayed for over two years -- until the companies were paid, in essence, for the use of the artists' own performances.